Bitcoin Forum

There have been talks about central bank digital currency (CBDC), a kind of cryptocurrency that is backed by a central bank. Recently, China is rolling out digital yuan, its own version of CBDC (curiously, it's not using blockchain). Even though China is not the first country to have its CBDC, it's the first major economy to do so. Some people argue that CBDC will make bitcoin become obsolete, as in this article:
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4418567-bitcoin-china-launched-digital-yuan-and-will-change-everything

People who support this view fail to realize that, while CBDC has some characteristics of a cryptocurrency, it is still very much a fiat currency. It can be inflated whenever the government wants to. It is not anomymous (one of the features that crypto users prefer). Users of CBDC do not have the freedom as crypto users do. CBDC may be a great contribution to the economy, but it will not replace bitcoin. In fact, I believe that CBDC may even make bitcoin more valuable. Why? Because with CBDC, it's easier to convert bitcoin to CBDC and vice versa, so people who hold bitcoin may not even need to use an exchange to convert their BTC to fiat, and people who want to buy bitcoin can easily do peer-to-peer transaction without using a bank account.

I long for the day when the Federal Reserve issues the digital dollar. It will make conversion between bitcoin and USD even easier, and we may not need to use an exchange service.

What do you think?

They think that once their CBDC is offered to the public, bitcoin will be dead or worthless.
all the powerful people in the current system pretend to ignore that what bitcoin brings is unique, CBDC is just an extension of the fiat currency weakness in the digital world, unlimited monetary inflation and the ever-present power of censorship, and I would even say it's the power of censorship this is even amplified with CBDC.
and worse, it raises big questions about privacy, as a CBDC will allow the government to better monitor every transaction.
Bitcoin will remain a unique monetary system with a zero inflation trend, a limited supply of up to 21 million units, and a programmed monetary policy that separates you from the corruption inherent in humans.
bitcoin is decentralized and leaderless, meaning it belongs to each of its users.

people have not realized this and when it happens for a decade, demand will explode with a limited supply of 21 million units of BTC, the price of Bitcoin will literally explode upon realizing its superiority.

Nothing curious there. A CBDC is not a crypto currency. It's a digital representation of the actual fiat, like the money one has in the bank.
And since the government wants full rights over that money, including the rights to empty your account if they want to, they clearly don't want traces of that recorded in a blockchain.
Also this way they don't have to pay miners or worry about 51% attacks.


You've captured pretty good most of the problems with CBDCs, but you seem to have failed to comprehend some of the implications.
All in all, I tend to agree, although for different reasons: CBDCs may give Bitcoin more legitimacy, hence making it more valuable.


Here I think that you are wrong. We already have stablecoins, which, although some are rather shady, we still can be pretty much sure won't give all ever transaction details to government on a silver plate. At least not all and not so easy.
Also you fail to understand how much power would CBDCs give to the govt institutions over your money.

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All in all, CBDCs may be handy, although stablecoins have already fixed that many years ago. And CBDCs have the potential to be a very powerful tool for governments, maybe too powerful, hence we should be rather wary about them.

I really don't understand why people enjoy giving all the details of their life for free to anybody, especially the governments, without a second thought. Learn to value your privacy!! Please!!

It really is. There's no different with the current setup in China using wechat and alipay for their digital payments. Adding CBDC is just like putting up another payment option for fiat. There's really nothing that much of a difference between those payment methods that I've said.

They're tying it up with cryptocurrencies but as you've said with their description, they're not using blockchain and more of, they're not really a cryptocurrency. There's no need for any argument with that since it's going to be backed up by the government as it's centralized.

We can really equate CBDC as digital fiat. So if you are concerned with privacy matters, you won't patronize the use of CBDCs. In this aspect alone, CBDCs won't make bitcoin worthless. Instead, once people understand the difference between CBDC and bitcoin, they may even switched to using bitcoin especially those who don't want to be tracked by their governments. So even with the initiatives from different governments today, creating their own CBDCs, it won't make bitcoin worthless or obsolete.

CBDC doesn't have any relation with Bitcoin, if CBDC has been exist it wouldn't make Bitcoin worthless or valuable. Well it's only your assumption if CBDC can be used to buy or sell Bitcoin, there's no exchanges or article mentioned it. Probably only local exchanges will list CBDC, while we know local exchanges often charge large fees and doesn't really reputable.

There's no any reason why someone need to buy CBDC except they want cashless (even electronic payment already solve this).

A crypto currency is a digital form of currency that uses cryptography and blockchain technology. With that definition a CBDC can be categorized as a cryptocurrency too but it is a centralized one similar to other centralized altcoins like Tether but with a lot less risk since it is created and controlled by a bank instead of a shady company, a bank isn't going to be closed down by the government (at least not that easily) but a shady company will eventually be shut down.

Regardless of the definition, you are right it is the same as "digital fiat" and it isn't even in the same category as bitcoin to have any effects on its future let alone making it "worthless"!

Yeah not BTC but CBDCs could make stable coins worthless. Maybe even XRP because I remember they were boasting about their partnership/collaboration with banking institutions before. Bank customers would probably prefer using a CDBC than USDT for reasons pointed out by @pooya87. In addition to that, banks would likely offer CBDC for their crypto custodial services.

OP, no. Users of shitcoins like CBDC and worthless fiat always find their path to convert them to hard money, Bitcoin, and HODL. But “What is hard money” is different for some people. Some people say it’s Bitcoin, other people say it’s Gold. Whatever it is, it’s not CBDC. CBDC will make Bitcoin more valuable.

You are assuming that CBDC will be like stablecoins but owned by government, but this is very unlikely.  Governments are not going to let people have full control over their own money, so you won't be able to do cross-chain swaps between Bitcoin and CBDC without intermediaries.

Converting between BTC and fiat is really not a problem for users, there are even Visa/Mastercard cards that allow you to use your crypto exchange balance to pay anywhere.

Not entirely if the stablecoins operates on a decentralized system. That's one of the points that makes crypto strong as, one can stay off the hook of government and financial institutions. That its pegged with fiat doesn't necessarily make it centralised or its value equations as such. Decentralisation is one key approach to look at it and would save it. Another point is,

Given the fact that, these coins, BTC, Altcoins  and Stable coins or even, the idea of cryptos is that, it could be used anywhere in the world. It distinctively attains the aim of a global currency so long as, you can fund a merchant who owns a wallet for such cryptocurrency and is willing to take payment using such media.

This is one thing that CBDN currency can't attain and its very much centralised.

Currencies like digital yuan are competing against fiat, not cryptos. It's a digital version of fiat, and it's not aiming to grow in value or be a good trading asset. It's merely a way of moving transactions within your country to the next level and to keep track of them in a new way. So no matter how many people in China use this CBDC, it doesn't mean anything for people who are into decentralized cryptocurrencies. As of November, it wasn't even available to people who aren't Chinese citizens, and it's still sort on in the testing mode, which, by the way, doesn't seem to be going well  (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/18/chinas-digital-yuan-notches-8point3-billion-transactions-in-half-a-year.html)because the transaction volume remains low. Having nominal users is one thing, but having people actively use it is another.

AFAIK any kind of CBDC is just a digital version of what they're doing already, which is controlling the supply.

Bitcoin is decentralized, no one gets to decide there will be more or less bitcoin, the generation of new coins is established and known to everyone in advance.

CBDC is just a way to print money more efficiently.

Competition does not make something worthless, but rather less valuable, as the success of digital currencies will not make the value of Bitcoin zero.
What will make bitcoin worthless is either there will be a problem that cannot be solved in the code, such as access to the private key, or the absence of adoption so that no one wants to buy and invest in bitcoin.

So by making Bitcoin worthless, the chain will die and a problem with the code will occur. Other than that, there is nothing that makes Bitcoin worthless.

[GUIDE] All About Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288713)

After you read that topic and hyperlinked articles, I believe that you will have deeper insights about CBDCs. Then you will understand that fiats, CBDCs are only make inflation worse.

Bitcoin is a store-of-value asset so that it can be a very good weapon against inflation and fiats, CBDCs. You are saying oppositely to the truth.

It is not even possible for CBDC to make Bitcoin useless or replacing it, Bitcoin has been here for more than a decade without any major threat since it was introduced and it will continue to be same here among many CBDCs by governments across the globe.

Importantly, the CBDC currency is totally centralized against what cryptocurrency should be because the government will always have control on our transactions and may track and filter out easily with the help of CBDC. But, on a positive note CBDC will help growing the awareness of bitcoin to the average man in the society.

I don't think bitcoin or any other crypto for that matter, will succumb once CBDCs come out. CBDCs are, in essence, just your fiat currency existing on the digital realm. Way easier to mint, way easier to change its specifications. Also, people would still know the difference between cryptocurrencies and CBDCs that it will not matter much to them. There are already deep roots thriving within the ecosystem, and deep pockets already involved in the game that will surely not want to see bitcoin fail.

CBDC'S are not cryptocurrencies, they are not even decentralized for that matters, I don't even know what good it will be considering we already have Visa and other form of online payment available, the visa company have a few problems right now considering their High fee but I do think that it would be sorted out soon enough. The Altcoins are not able to touch bitcoins despite all their efforts what makes you think that the digitalization of fiat would do something new? I do think that everyone is trying to move to a digitalized future meaning the companies are the government are bringing out something like the tokens but at the end I do think that how it works out depends on how people take it as, which would not be remotely close to bitcoins.

Not at all and these two are not even directly related together because the central bank digital currency is not a cryptocurrency and there is a big difference between digital currencies and cryptocurrencies the important thing is digital currencies are centralized and the total supply can be changed by the owner and the government behind it they can also check and change the transactions and that's not what the investors want, so I think these two are not related to together at all.

I also think that CBDC is only presented to threaten the existence of crypto because the government has been very disturbed by the results of this innovation, the reason is because of the bubble that was created.  How can BI be able to easily raise large amounts of funds under the guise of an unreasonable transaction.  Again, due to its prestige, it is only natural that CBDC will beat Crypto because that was the initial sale.

Any country that has introduced its own CBDC check if there is a different value from the CBDC against their fiat currency. There are both one and the same only that they want to pretend that is their own type of cryptocurrency but in reality, it has nothing similar to the cryptocurrency. My own country is one of such where our government is against crypto trading and with the introduction of the CBDC, crypto is still trending amongst not just the youths now but there are even some private schools that accept Bitcoin back before the Government made that announcement and again, CBDC don't have any effect on Bitcoin.

I’m assuming that the Central Banks will keep BRRR-printing more fiat into existence, in the form of both paper money AND CBDC, to inflate their balance sheets. It doesn’t only make the black hole of Bitcoin suck more value, it also makes the value of the narrative for Bitcoin’s 21 million supply cap much higher in my opinion.

It’s not just gossip and stories on forums, CBDC is a reality in many countries in the form of testing, and China has been working on its CBDC perhaps for as long as Bitcoin has existed. China just wants to create as much control over the national currency as possible, and the CBDC is killing any privacy because the authorities have full insight into the finances of every citizen.


Some people who express such views have obviously not yet understood what Bitcoin is, because if they did, they would not be talking such nonsense at all. Bitcoin is a decentralized cryptocurrency independent of central banks, governments or various financial agencies such as the World Bank or the International Monetary Fund. It is insane to think that a central bank product can make Bitcoin obsolete...


Today you have so many stablecoins used to buy/sell cryptocurrencies, has that knocked crypto exchanges out of the game? Don't think that any CBDC will change things, even if you are allowed to buy Bitcoin with such a financial instrument.

People have wise up, there is a distinguish difference between cbdc digital currency and cryptocurrency, that is no difference from fiat currency just that in digital form and also expect the same charges on transactions using digital cbdc as that of fiat banks if not even much, take a look at the exuberant charges on cross boarder transactions fiat places.

But you can't have both. You can't have a decentralized currency backed by fiat and at the same time have a stable price. It is evident from all the stable coins that have been created so far and they have all been centralized.

Good thing you said Central Bank coin, it's has nothing to do with crypto currencies.
They are still run and controlled by the government so there's no need to for that.
Bitcoin protects your money from banks, government, and gives you a chance for a higher price whenever there's an increase in price. the simply truth is that it won't and can't make bitcoin worthless.

I don't think of Bitcoin as a threat. The government should not be afraid. They should have made better decisions, not made innovations to fight back.  I would rather crypto, CBDC, and FIat be interconnected and mutually beneficial. They are supposed to provide regulation to be able to regulate even though crypto is decentralized but at least the government still has the power to regulate it. That could be something good. In addition, they can also make crypto as a source of state income through taxes.

CBDC is nothing but a calculated plan by the government to try and deviate peoples attention from crypto but unfortunately it has not worked out as they have planned, nobody is paying attention to cbdc, the news about cbdc ended as quickly as it came, how can such an unknown currency make btc worthless, @op one thing should know about btc is, it makes headlines at any market condition, bull or bear, people, news talk about btc all the time unlike the so-called cbdc.

Another reason is that the introduction of CBDC will also promote comparison between them and bitcoins (crypto in general). This comparison will directly influence the popularity of bitcoins positively as many will soon come to see that the framework of CBDC's is tailored after that of cryptocurrency with just some few modifications to suit the government. Crypto to many will still be the better choice to many.

In reality it is the other way around. What has made Bitcoin valuable is that it is a decentralized, autonomous, permissionless alternative to fiat money. CBDCs are a digital version of fiat money, and in that sense they can perhaps give more legitimacy to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, as has been pointed out, by normalizing the use of digital currencies. But as CBDCs are going to continue to be the same shit as FIAT, Bitcoin in the long run will continue to appreciate in value, and a lot, making the opposite path to fiat currencies, whose value tends to 0.

It will never make bitcoin or other crypto currencies worthless. The central bank digital currency are just the "digital" version of the fiat currency. Just like stable coins. People will  still hold crypto currencies because it will give them profits in the long run. I doubt those digital currencies will give people any profit for holding. On other hand central bank currencies will be centralized, which means people actually don't own any of the coins. People will know this and they will always prefer decentralized crypto over those centralized bank issue digital currency.

Bitcoin is not anonymous. Google it.

No, it will not happen. But it might be the other way around. It is probably Bitcoin that will make CBDCs worthless. Why should people be using CBDCs when it is going to be inferior to Bitcoin in whatever way you look at it. Both are digital currencies. Both are being used as money. The difference is that CBDCs are directly controlled by governments. People cannot have privacy with it. CBDCs are not protected from inflation either. So there is really no way CBDCs will make Bitcoin worthless. It could be vice-versa though.

CBDC is money controlled by the government...

In this world, there are so many people who don't really like government control and it is predicted that the number will continue to grow. Bitcoin is not under the control of the government, so those who struggle to invest in bitcoin will definitely continue to exist and that makes the price of bitcoin to continue and remain high. Bitcoin will never be worthless.

No, I don't think that CBDC will be able to make Bitcoin worthless as it lacks blockchains and also makes comparing CBDC with bitcoin useless. 

You may be right, if America creates a digital dollar backed by real dollars, the process of converting bitcoin and cryptocurrencies into fiat will be much easier, but I expect that there will not be much change because the digital dollar will be like the original dollar will remain under the control of the central government and they can pump the number that They want it and this will lead to inflation and make it worthless in the end in addition to the fact that all transactions will be under the tight control of the government.

People don't need digital fiat which is all controlled by the government. The government will have all the powers to produce more digital dollars just like they print fiat dollar.

With countries bringing their own digital currencies, it will make bitcoin more worthy because then everyone would know how to interact with digital currency and more people will buy bitcoins. No government product can be comparable to a limited supply fully decentralized bitcoins.

I don't think the CBDC will make bitcoin worthless because it will serve its own purposes for sure in the future. CBDC isn't considered a cryptocurrency. It may appear to some as it is, but the fact is it is not. It is only an extension of fiat money representation, only that not in physical one but in digital means. I believe this is one of the things that the government has come up with to be in the same pacing of the innovation and technology that we have today and to, of course, boost the usage of fiat in digital transactions like that of cryptocurrency. Although CBDC is certainly not going to be the same with bitcoin because bitcoin is a completely independent and decentralized entity that just needs the market to make it continuous and to determine its value. However, CBDC isn't decentralized. It is controlled by the central organization and the government which could dictate and manipulate how many CBDC will be going to circulate and how much it would cost.

So, definitely, CBDC won't be the death of bitcoin. I agree with your statement that it is possible that it could even power the bitcoin because of the easier exchanging process without the need to undergo and let your money be exchanged via different exchanger platforms that oftentimes need KYC. This could be an advantage to those people who want to convert their funds directly with fiat any moment they needed and wanted it. It would be a win-win situation if ever. Let's just hope for the best though and wish the government would be wise enough in setting and laying all the things and strategies needed for their CBDC to be successful without compromising crypto.

I sincerely doubt it. Most people are already familiar with internet banking, so they should have some sort of experience of how to interact with money that has no physical representation. Basically, the interaction consists of one action, which is "send funds or pay for something." You must specify a destination for your payment or it won't get through. When you're receiving money, you don't need to do anything at all, your bank handles everything for you. Bitcoin is a different story because there is no one there who can protect you from making mistakes. Before starting to interact with bitcoin, you first must learn where to download your wallet, how to verify the integrity and authenticity of downloaded files, how to create a wallet, how to back up your keys, how to keep them securely, how to behave properly to preserve your financial privacy, how to control and choose UTXOs, how to distinguish between different formats of addresses, how to control and bump fees, how to use RBF and CPFP, etc. In CBDCs, there is none of this. CBDCs will be very simple and straightforward in this regard, so most people won't bother to switch to a more complicated currency, which is Bitcoin.

You said it right there. As long as it is not a Cryptocurrency, any other form of digital money or CBDC cannot really qualify as a cryptocurrency because these other digital assets are still under the control of the various Government that created them and I think this is one if not the major difference between them since cryptocurrencies are basically decentralized which any CBDC is not.

CBDC doesn't have any role to make bitcoin worthless. The term itself gives clear information that it is a digital currency. What does a digital currency mean, it is the digital representation of the physical fiat into regular usage. CBDC is completely backed by the Central Bank and through different authorities it reaches the user network. This means without intermediary this won't function. The central Bank is the issuing authority, and there will be commercial bank and payment service providers as intermediary. Through the below image it can be understood easily.

https://i.imgur.com/WMBwsrN.png

Image Source : Google Images (https://www.google.com/imghp?hl=en)

I don't think so, bitcoin will continue to be valuable and can get higher, digital money is different from crypto money even though it's the same as digital, here crypto money really respects user data compared to digital money and also I think the value of digital money is the same as ordinary paper money is different from bitcoin which is 1 BTC more or less than 49k$

It is actually the same value as paper money. The government that has created these CBDC are just trying to say, Here is a digital currency for you to use since you like Cryptocurrency but apart from Cryptocurrencies being Decentralized, can people make profits from any Digital money like you do invest in Cryptocurrencies? of cause not, so another major difference and CBDC can never make Bitcoin worthless.