Bitcoin Forum

Ok I really wanted to understand this behaviour of alt coins when recently during this crash many alt coins were double digits down with bitcoin but when it is recovering a lot of them are hardly even moving. And this is really issue with alt coins why is there such behaviour?

Basically, an altcoin's value is either sourced from its own project's success or simply sucked from Bitcoin's popularity or from a certain crypto hype. Majority of the altcoins, though, are simply parasites. Bitcoin represents the entire crypto market such that when Bitcoin is bullish much of the entire crypto market is also bullish. But when Bitcoin is down, the entire crypto market will also be down. When altcoins fall down together with Bitcoin, since many of them don't have anything really, not a working product, not a community, and so on, many of them can hardly get back again.

Alts don't usually recover immediately alongside btc besides, we can't really say if btc is done dipping until when it is certain btc is fully out of the bear zone only then can you begin to see alts significant rise, right now the market is very unstable and alts depends on btc full recovery to perform. So you need lots of patience and time to see some alts coming back to their previous price, while some will never be able to recover, the reason why only few alts are worth investing on.

I get that but even good coins like pancake which has so many used cases goes down double digit upto 22% buy when bitcoin is recovering it is moving up so slowly.

I think basically when Bitcoin is going down, everybody tends to follow the trend of selling too, bringing the Alts down with it but since the majority of the Big traders/investors are into Bitcoin, it tends to also recover quicker and even the Alts traders join in that Bitcoin recovery to the upside hence Alts will take longer time until Bitcoin is stable before we see Alts big rally. 

I presume that those coins have bitcoin pairing on some exchange. If bitcoin crashes huge those coins with btc pairing are likely to be affected and dragged them down. Likewise when btc pumping somehow it correlates with the reversal. Those who dont move much have those paired with usdt this is just an observation to some of the coins and tokens but somehow this cant be a reliable reason cause other tokens also somehow pumped regardless whether it has btc pair or not.

The market still has to buy altcoins for it to go up significantly. Most of the time when bitcoin goes up, the attention is only directed towards bitcoin and other alts are left out. Profits are way higher on the bitcoin side of things during its recovery, and other traders share the same sentiment (kind of), hence why the altcoin market is kinda lackluster compared to bitcoin in terms of recovery.

Alts that are paired to bitcoin on exchanges should basically go up, too, but you also need to consider that if no one is buying those coins at the same time bitcoin is going up, the increase wouldn't be that significant at all.

99.9% of altcoins outside of stablecoins(obviously) are sort of "risk on" assets. Hence why in bull markets, bitcoin dominance tends to be a lot lower than usual because people usually make a lot more money(assuming you get in and out with good timings) holding certain altcoins.

One thing needs to be learned.

If the bitcoin on move situation, the altcoin will not go up. It's already basic simple, because "Altcoin" needs BTC to up and then side away first to make Altcoin movement. People will more trade bitcoin during fear bitcoin.

Altcoin only move from USD side, while just adjustable price from Altcoin BITCOIN Pair.

Because they are altcoins, and not bitcoin! That's the easiest explanation available!

I am sure you have made this observation by looking at the top 10 altcoins. But that's not entirely true. When bitcoin is plunging, there are several altcoins that are going up. Some altcoins are growing by 600 - 700% to be honest. So your observation is only limited to few altcoins which closely mimics bitcoin's movement. But the market is somewhat different than what you think. Please look into CMC website and you will understand. The entire altcoin market doesn't follow bitcoin.

Uncertainty that is the reason. When it comes to Bitcoin, we all know there is always going to be just one but with altcoins we have them in multiple version some even doing exactly the same thing but with just a different name and small differences. Now speculators always want the best out of the market, there is no certainty that this particular altcoin is going to raise as there are multiple options to choose from also the money flowing into the market get divided by majority of the altcoins but that of Bitcoin is just for Bitcoin.

Best solution is to hold your altcoins through times like this and accumulate more if you have the finances for that. During the bear market, it is best you focus on your girlfriend

Think of most altcoins as pump and dump during a BTC downtrend. That may be an extreme comparison but they really bleed more because they are left behind by their community. Nobody is buying and so not enough volume to counter the selling pressure from bears and panic sellers. Most of them only come back during a bull market.

That's how it has always been - for as long as I can remember. Firstly, Altcoins are paired with /BTC pairs and that has an effect on altcoins on either direction bitcoin chose to move whether positively or negative. Another reason is that altcoins have their own time to outperform Bitcoin and that day isn't today.

Overall market sentiment is still bearish so I'd say we should lower our expectations this market.

Most People sell and never come back and you do know that there are like thousands of altcoins around so basically the suggestion is follow good top projects and when is down and there is catastrophe in the market then buy some of the dips Like you can never be wrong with things Like matic luna as they are top altcoins Look at the top ones and buy them on a dip and never buy them is price is at all time high Is a bad idea 

When bitcoin goes up, people start investing more in bitcoin. Hence the price goes up even more. People also invest in altcoins but at the same time others starts to sell their altcoin to invest in bitcoin. Hence, bitcoin goes higher than altcoins. On other hand, as bitcoin goes down, altcoins goes even further down because more people starts to sell their altcoins to buy bitcoin at a cheaper price. This is how the market usually works. But yeah, there are exceptions sometimes.

Erase the idea that once bitcoin pumps a bit, most altcoins should follow. It might be the scenario before but the market has changed since then. If you hold some altcoins that didn't get dragged up whenever Bitcoin is on the uprise, see if there's really a reason why it should go up. Is the volume of that coin perfectly smooth? Is that coin can be considered worthy to invest in for long? Are there any intense price actions that happened on that coin before or something like that?

Bottom line, not all altcoins are having the same behaviour and should go up too alongside the price increase of Bitcoin. You should modify your portfolio if there's something wrong with it regardless of the market trend.

because when it's altcoin/bitcoin down, people will sell it. and when they recover, they prefer a coin that has a higher upside potential, namely bitcoin. this is what keeps altcoins from moving or having little impact when it comes to market recovery. but when everything is normal, altcoins will also increase. and another reason is that at the start of the recovery, the market focus will only be on bitcoin. altcoins will not get the same attention as bitcoin, this is what hinders the recovery of some altcoins.

I think people are following the trend where bitcoin is going. For example, bitcoin is experiencing a decline, then altcoin holders are also going with the flow. The reason altcoins tend to recover slowly, while bitcoin moves faster, is because altcoin holders move some of their assets to buy bitcoins, and long-time investors in altcoins don't buy the coins they held before, they spread their investment across various coin options.

I think it is because when the price of Bitcoin starts to show signs of recovery, people who have a lot of altcoins would also be selling their altcoins so that they could ride with Bitcoin's recovery. We have known that Bitcoin's dip is always temporary. Sooner or later, its price will definitely rise once again. By the time it happens, crypto fans would not want to miss the rally. In order to do that, they would either buy back Bitcoin using their fiat or stablecoins or they would sell their alts for Bitcoin.

there is actually rule even tho is not 100% accurate and altcoin can pump even bitcoin dump for some reason
https://i.ibb.co/QbPZfHr/IMG-20210207-175753-991.jpg

and there is post about it https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5316339.0 you can take a look

Maybe altcoins that still have a small marketcap that can't follow the trend when bitcoin goes up, look at the top 100 or up to 500, when the bitcoin price goes up the majority will go up, and I think this is a natural thing because investors will wait for the market to buy again.

Since many altcoins are only used as a way to double the btc owned, never really consider altcoins worth to hold, because many of them do not have a use case and could become zero value in long run, so it will be risky if hold without a definite future. That's why you'll always see btc go down altcoins as well and when btc goes up altcoins go up too but not significantly unless someone pumps it.

It's caused by people are getting scared to get into the altcoins again and they are waiting for the direction of bitcoin. When bitcoin already given a signal for them and they will be try to deciding whether they shall join in the altcoins again and buy the dip or not. That's why altcoin need more time to be recovered from the dump against bitcoin. People prefer to hodl BTC and stable coins over altcoins. This makes the recovery for altcoins being so slow compared with bitcoin.

that's a common behavior when people prefer to hodl good assets and try to sell volatile assets to avoid the more losses. So many traders are also doing this thing as well. Don't worry about that. Once they will get into the altcoins again and it will recover as soon as possible.

This is a typical pattern that could be observed again and again in the past. As a rule, altcoin prices lag behind for a while when Bitcoin rises again. Once the altcoins then rise, they usually rise more than Bitcoin. My guess is that many are currently unsettled and tend to bet on the safe option - i.e. Bitcoin. As soon as they notice that the market is stabilizing, they will increasingly switch back to altcoins.

Don't you ever understand the behavior people in the crypto? this has been happening since a long time ago and here is it.

During the pump

People have cash in their wallet - buy bitcoin coz bitcoin will be pumped first before altcoins - bitcoin becomes stable - people converting their bitcoin and stable tokens to the altcoins.

The opposite thing will happen once they will be facing the bearish trend. They will be moving back their assets to the bitcoin and stable token as both have the biggest liquidity and the safest assets during the dump.

Bitcoin will get less dump compared with altcoins and they can go to the altcoins once recovery will come.

I think investors will see the trend in the market, if the market shows signs of improving then they will immediately buy again, but if the market is still stagnant then it is difficult for them to buy again and look for other alternatives.

What other alternatives ? I think that if Bitcoin itself doesn't have a good value fix then the other Alternatives won't work as well even if they are chosen by a lot of people now, so this is what a lot of people need to look at now.

IMO Its because Altcoins are not tied up with Bitcoin in terms of price and value when Bitcoin price moves up, most Altcoin prices will remain the same while others are slowly catching up because each project has different purposes, functions, and prices drivers while in some other cases the community itself can be price drivers on any altcoins if they can pump it.  

It's caused by bitcoin will become the only crypto that will get less impact during the bearish market. There was another option by converting their money to the stable coin but when they are being too late and they may lose a lot. that's why bitcoin has become the safest place for anyone to keep their value. I should remind you that if these days people used bitcoin as store of value as well.
When they are converting their assets into the bitcoin and they can decrease their lose due to the bearish trend. Holding bitcoin is also anticipating another bounce that can happen soon and they will be massively jumping to the altcoins again. Any crypto users are very familiar with this method.

I think that is because bitcoin itself is not increased too much, so many altcoins can not move to the higher price. If somehow, bitcoin price jumps and back to $40k, you will see many altcoins start a race to the higher price and maybe some of the altcoins can make a new ATH. Once some altcoins get a new ATH, we may see a new altcoin season that can increase the other altcoins and get the same new ATH. The altcoin will move following bitcoin price so it is not surprising is not many altcoins can increase so high.

The market is very dependent on bitcoin as altcoins can only take over the market after bitcoin calms down, I have observed that typical pattern is beneficial for betting on altcoins after bitcoin has gone up and tends to stabilize, although I have applied that pattern for short term trading but do not recommend it to anyone .

because all the market capitals are revolving around bitcoin at the exact time of bearish market.
most of the investment will only flows into the market of the altcoins when the market of btc and the trend has finally become quite bullish
it could also caused by the fact that most of the altcoins are following trend of btc and also having relatively lower market capitalization that could make it more vulnerable against massive sell off and panic selling.
remember that investment almost always flows in among the higher ranked altcoins first because they are the kind that attracts attention of big investment and big venture capitals. People are also looking for the safe place to keep their money and they think that bitcoin was the best thing to be used save their value from the volatility and dump that happened with the market.

That's is why it's best to have a large portion of your portfolio on Bitcoin rather on altcoins. This is always the case on altcoins and you've got a good observation on that, this has been the setup on most of them and even if you like it or not you may wait until altcoin season for most of them to pump up. It's not an issue to be honest but Bitcoin market cap or its liquidity is surely the focal point of all, it is still the huge piece of the whole pie.

When you think of crypto, you would most likely think of Bitcoin. This is probably what's going on to investor's minds when they're doing their dumps and buys during/before the dip. It's a risky world of shitcoins out there that's why Bitcoin is probably the one recovering better than these coins you mentioned though I never bought any single coin of what you just mentioned there, mate.

Actually this concept is quite prominent in Cryptos, when BTC falls the whole market falls, alts will fall with a larger percentage for sure. But when the market recovers back btc is the first mover and alts move up lesser than it but later on when btc would stabilize there would be an alt season and it will be at this time that the alts will go moon. So basically crux is that it's not that alts won't rise again it's just that market is programmed this way that the bullish volumes doesn't split in all the currencies while the bearish volume does.

 I also assumed that since they have lower volume, they have higher volatility, which is why it is easier to drop them. Most people "believe" in bitcoin, the future of it and all that which is why they hold it as long as possible. However, not that many people believe that 534th ranked shitcoin would be as good as bitcoin, so they buy it and hold it and sell it later on. This is just how it works and if you do not believe in a project then you would be glad to sell it as soon as you make enough profit. There is a good reason to hold bitcoin long term, there isn't one for many others, you can name maybe 10 or even 20, but the rest will not be in your 10 year holding list.

we will not see conditions similar to what happened in the past ,the market has not fully recovered in conditions that are currently still going to be corrected again ,regarding the altcoins you manage I don't know anything because you didn't mention it ! so I think maybe investors are still waiting for the bottom price

Moving or retreating altcoins is not entirely dependent on the value of Bitcoin although the effect of Bitcoin's movement on the market remains. Behind it all, the price of altcoins goes up or down depending on the strategy of each of them.

It could be though. I forgot to mention that, thank you for the quote.
I can't imagine someone still holding that kind of ranking coin for a decade. For sure the coin would be flat-out dead even by half of a decade unless there is still a cult or community out there keeping up the hype for no reason.

I can understand your stand point really, but you should understand that currently, bitcoin still has the lion share of the entire cryptocurrency market capitalization which is why it still controls some major stuffs in crypto currencies most especially in pricing.

What I think happens is that, since almost all altcoins are trading against bitcoin, and we all know that bitcoin has the largest community in crypto, when bitcoin is going down, it is possible that alot of investors and holding their bitcoin, some are even selling their altcoins to buy more bitcoin while it cheap.
And when bitcoin begins to go up, many investors are holding their bitcoin for more profit, majority of this investors are also selling their altcoins bags to enable them FOMO in on bitcoin.

This is why when bitcoin goes down, altcoins go down with it, and when bitcoins begins to go up, altcoins continue to stay down.

I think for altcoin, not as simple like bitcoin which people already know and believe. I mean, for altcoin it depends on their developer, and progress, and maybe any other factors for the coin to be dumped and pumped. Maybe simple thing that we can take about it is, be prepared because if we not prepared when holding altcoin and then price dumped a lot more than bitcoin, it can cause us panic and maybe cut lose our assets.

The market is still full of altcoins with decent capitalizations that do not have a competitve advantage or present a rate of development that's higher than let's say the top 10-20 CMC.

In other words a lot of capital is placed into dormant, stagnating and/or copy-cat projects that DO NOT bring any value. When sell-offs happen you'll see money moving from those underperforming altcoins to more trusted cryptocurrencies - mainly Bitcoin which is by far the king of the crypto space.

the reason this is happening is due to the fact that whenever the bitcoin price rises a lot people sell altcoins to take advantage of the wave of bitcoin price rise, but when the bitcoin price becomes stable the altcoin price starts to recover, it's been like this forever


with your post you ended up with the joy of the creators of shiticoins

When the bearish market will start, bitcoin being the coin with less dump compared with the altcoins. The fear in the altcoins are making people to liquidate their altcoins as soon as they can. This is the cycle in the crypto when the dump happened and people converting their altcoins to the coins that can protect their value. Altcoins will always face a disaster during the dump but altcoins can recovery as fast as it gets dumped by people when the whales will be buying it. Look at how fast altcoins are recovering again these days. So many tokens are worth to be owned during the recovery phase. Altcoins didn't go up when bitcoin is recovering caused by people are focusing into the bitcoin. They will be moving toward altcoins once they have done with bitcoin.

As we know at this time the movement of bitcoin is still said to be underlined from the price last year and with the decline in the price of bitcoin at this time there will also be appearances in other altcoins so that when the market starts there is a sign of hijou but the price of altcoins is still not going up maybe because  bitcoin which still has no increase to rise so that altcoins are difficult to pump up their prices to high.

You can analyze the market to get the answer for this question. I will try to break down it a little bit. Bitcoin goes down 3% - 5% but when you are comparing it with altcoins and then altcoins have been going down so hard. People are seeing when bitcoin goes dipping and they can take the benefit from this by converting their assets to the bitcoin. The fast they can convert it and they can save more value from their portfolios or assets. They will jump back again once bitcoin will retrace again. This behavior was a normal thing in the crypto. You can't expect people to keep their assets and seeing their portfolios will be going down even deeper. This is how crypto works and during the bullish market the crypto users will have the same behavior like that. Buying bitcoin during bitcoin pump and then move to the altcoins after whales jump from bitcoin to the altcoins.

I have to know what altcoin you mean, not all altcoins follow the current decline, but the price movement will always follow Bitcoin, this happens often, like top 10 altcoins, BNB, Solana, Ethereum and Terra, all these altcoins are down more than 30% and there are also those who are not affected because other altcoins have superior technology, in my opinion when Bitcoin goes up more than 20% and sideway is priced at $50k there will be an altseason and altcoin prices will definitely go up slowly.

This is right. But we know that it will not be easy to find coins that do not follow bitcoin movements unless we already have that list always to check how good their movement is. The top 10 altcoins list can go down deeper but it will bounce up when the bitcoin price increases so you will have a chance to make a profit later. Right now, bitcoin is back to $37k and I do not know what will happen but I feel that the bitcoin price will get another correction. So you can watch close on bitcoin and find if you can buy back or need to wait for more.

Altcoins don't always do instant surge up when BTC is taking the leads unless a project was hyped by people like Elon musk through tweets on twitter, it takes time and patience for altcoins to join in the uptrend of BTC

This generalisation for alt coins seems wrong to me. While on average across alt coins this could be true (not sure though), there definitely coins that outperform bitcoins in an upwards trend, and there are coins that outperform in a downwards trend. Maybe you were just unlucky with the alt coins you picked? There are some summaries here on the forum that show the top and worst coins performing for each month. If you had the right coins in your portfolio than the swings would be much lower compared to bitcoins. The difficulty is of course to find these coins in advance and not 1 month too late. Successful alt coin portfolios outperformed bitcoins almost every year.

And when a project gets shilled by Elon Musk a project can increase on its own without needing the help of bitcoin. Thankfully Elon have stopped shilling coins because it cant do anything good in this market. When bitcoin goes up in its own its an evidence that lots of people are investing on it and only less of them invest in altcoins.

More people supports bitcoin more than altcoin and bitoin supporters mostly have a strong hands unlike to altcoin supporters where they dump their altcoins after they think they already made a nice profit. This makes altcoin dumps twice more than the price of bitcoin. I hope this explanation will clear the the mind of the OP.

Sometimes the prices of altcoins and bitcoins have the same rhythm in terms of rising or falling prices, but not infrequently the prices of bitcoin and bitcoin are in opposite directions in their movements as you say now, this happens because supply and demand in the market are the main factors that this determines the occurrence the occurrence of this phenomenon, because indeed when the market looks bearish, many altcoin holders actually sell altcoins to minimize their losses and shift them to bitcoin, so that demand for altcoins actually decreases and triggers a decrease in the price of the altcoin, but on the contrary it triggers increase against for bitcoin demand thus pushing the price of bitcoin to increase in the market.

 Fortunately for this period, we have seen people who made a great deal of profit thanks to doge. People who had doge for 3-4 years, made a huge profit today. This created chaos for us because it meant that a ton of people would be working to actually get something like that again in the future. They are buying Shiba and bunny and ape or whatever they are finding, whatever memecoin they could get their hands on, why? Because if you held doge, then you would have made a lot of profit and most of them imagine that they will be able to do the same thing again in the future.

Well, we know that Bitcoin is the market mover so most of the Altcoins are just tagging along so, whenever Bitcoin dips which is also the first to move downwards, Alts follow and vice versa. So it wouldn't be surprising that when Bitcoin is recovering, Alts will follow in its shadows and these are just some of them except as we do also notice a difference in this pattern when a project has an important update or news and it goes opposite Bitcoins price because of community support at the news. 

Yeah I think will be a good thing to observe. I will be looking at this pattern now, in theory it sound good but it is good time to see the pattern in real time which is most likely will happen soon. Anyway thanks for the input.

I don't think you need any pattern to find this, if you keep any major alt chart along with the bitcoin chart you can easily notice the periods where the chart was very linear to the chart of BTC and you can easily observe the times when the chart deviated alot while the BTC was very stable, one should just wait for BTC to reach a stable level after running high so that alts can pick themselves up, I think it's just the money flow which takes place. The money from the BTC moves into alts using the BTC/Alts pair which pump the prices of alts against BTC higher. I think one reason of this pattern can be because historically all the alts used to be paried with BTC.

From my 5 years of experience, what I have seen in this crypto market, I also believe that experts will say the same. When the bitcoin price began to rise, the entire altcoin market became stable, and when the bitcoin price returned to a stable level after a rise, the altcoins began to rise. means when bitcoin pumps, altocion is a stable point, and then when the bitcoin price becomes stable, the altcoin price starts to pump. And here's why, after a period of stability, when the price of bitcoin began to fall, the altcoin market experienced a pump, followed by a dump.bitcoin's price started to dump, that meant people were selling bitcoin and buying stable coins like USDT or USDC. That means people have started to sell alt to buy usdt. And that is why bitcoin and the market depend on the bitcoin situation.

They lose faith in them, they withdraw their money and stabilize before the appearance of new projects, everything is very simple in fact. Look at it like the situation with dollars and national currencies. on the bottoms to buy and top to sell, only in contrast to the standard scheme there are thousands of projects in which you can raise on the next wave.

there are quite literally thousands of altcoins out there and even more, the number increases every day and still counting, you just can’t always expect these investment that flows in keep staying in the same altcoin market for more than once.
if bearish trend is coming, the investment will be taken back again and there is a big chance that other selected altcoins will be receiving these flows of investment in the next round of investing.
unless the altcoins have something appealing like something that could make their altcoin promising and having good long term potential, don’t expect these altcoins gets bullish market for more than once.
look at these newer shitcoins, they are expecting themselves reaching the same level as doge and shiba but most of them just gone after having bullrun and then massive bearish that follows. So many altcoins are so difficult to recover right now

I Think Altcoin or every coin price depends on bitcoin price. I think when bitcoin price grow up then market will be green and i hope all coin price will be rise again.Because we already proved that.Now bitcoin price little dip and market dumps.I hope bitcoin price wil be more rise again and bitcoin price recover soon.

Alost altcoin need and waiting with bitcoin recovery to reach higher price, without any expectation with bitcoin still dump nothing hope we can see altcoin on the top price. Many time and almost when bitcoin dump not have positive side for altcoin can stay up with higher price although have burning moment like CAKE and BNB coin, always drop and dump how ever burning moment not give chance for BNB keep reaching higher price when bitcoin dump.