Bitcoin Forum

We all know that bitcoin is the king and father of all digital assets. Bitcoin was created for 2 purposes.

1. To be an alternative to fiat currency.
2. Stay free from govt control.

At present some big online marketplaces accept bitcoin but from being an alternative payment to fiat currency I think we are still behind. We also saw many countries are hostile towards bitcoin and china baned everything related to bitcoin. So china's ban on bitcoin shows that it's free from govt control or its the opposite? Bitcoin can really be the alternative to fiat in spite of this extreme volatility?

1. Bitcoin is an alternative to fiat currency. It's not popular, but it works just like it claims to work - it can't be stopped, transactions can't be reversed or controlled by third parties, etc.

2. Banning is not the same as controlling. China scared off a lot of people from using Bitcoin, especially big services and miners, but they can do absolutely nothing against people who still use Bitcoin in China, so it doesn't count as control.

Bitcoin is far from replacing fiat currencies currently, even in the future it won't be able to replace fiat only that it can work along with hard cash. Bitcoin is what many people say internet money but whereas people still prefer to not go through the hassle to buy crypto just to transact where they can only pay for their daily goods with cash, which is time saving as well as safe to use for non tech-savvy people.
About government control, bitcoin is still free from government control and will always be, it's just that the price fluctuate a lot in accordance to the decisions made about the legality of bitcoin by governments.
The purpose of bitcoin was always giving power back in the hands of public and I guess it is doing its job in the right way. Who could have thought 20 years ago that we could be albe to send money to others over internet just using a Sting of numbers or a QR code.

If you have bitcoin on your noncustododial wallet, you can decide to send it to anyone for  payment. I remember a time when a friend told me he did not have money and I wanted to send him money, what came out of his mouth was that 'but you have bitcoin an you can send it'. He knew I do not hold fiat. Bitcoin is money but also an asset, it is an alternative to fiat but superior and better because of its speculative value.

What Satoshi aimed was an open source decentralized money that has a transparent ledger.

China and other countries banned the internet so why are we still using it?

That was meant to be a global resource of information but only half the world has it so we should just give up on that too in the same logic...

Bitcoin was more a technological concept that might replace banks or mightve just thrived from people being annoyed with government affiliation and control of their banks and the entire value production process.

What Satoshi aimed was an open source decentralized money that has a transparent ledger.
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That is same thing too. Satoshi aim is not defeated open source is transparent yet the real physical identity is not revealed and that is the freedom or free from government control. The mode of transaction is decrete based on individual wallet. It is an asset that it value is not undermined and can increase based on speculation and real market interaction of demand and supply.

Can you exchange products and services directly for bitcoin? Yes, can you do it without government intervention? Yes, so I do not see how you can think that bitcoin has failed, bitcoin is simply not popular enough, I will give you that, however if we look at the trends we can see that bitcoin is slowly becoming more and more popular around the world, so given enough time bitcoin will be able to reach a turning point in which businesses not accepting bitcoin will be leaving so much money over the table that they will have no other option but to accept it even if they do not want to.

And if we look at the aspect that bitcoin has failed its purpose, then, we won't be seeing this price level of bitcoin today. So in my opinion, bitcoin has actually surpassed Satoshi's expectations for this project. When he created this currency, was he expecting that it will reach this price level in the market? Also, the scope is getting wider everyday, as more and more users are learning about crypto. Once they educate themselves about it, I can say, one way or another, they will change their perspectives towards bitcoin or other crypto. And those 2 purposes mentioned by the OP have been served already.

Well if we do say that there are levels to how you can call something an "alternative", then pretty sure Bitcoin is at least past the beginning parts. It works as an alternative, there are merchants that now accept it as payments and you can also transact it with others who are willing to, I don't see a reason why it can't be taken as one.

As for being controlled, well, pretty sure the government has no access/control over the main workings of Bitcoin? Specifically, they're just banning it. Technically, what they're controlling is not Bitcoin, but rather their citizens. Doesn't seem like they were that successful though tbh.

Bitcoin is very young to fullfill for the purpose it is being developed. Considering its early days now it has made a big change in the market as an alternate form of payment. More companies and daily life shops have begun to accept bitcoin. At the same time the people haven't changed much, because of the growth. People prioritise it as an investment that can bring big money and this restricts them from spending it same as currency. This will change with time.

Nowhere bitcoin is being controlled by the government. There are bans from different governments. Does that mean people aren't using it anymore. No, people continue to use it through other possible ways. Only thing majority of the holdings will be acquired by the corporate networks in the future which might make the bitcoin market highly manipulative, but won't have the ability to control the market.

It could be yes.

1. Because people didn't want to spend their Bitcoin after they bought it, they prefer it to store a value which is hoping that the amount vs to dollar will increase and sell when they saw a profit.  Maybe 40% of it is used as an alternative currency the rest could be the holder which is they hold for profit.

2. As I can see in this case, those governments adopting Bitcoin are implementing their own regulations to the users but not directed to the Bitcoin itself and I think Bitcoin wasn't a failure in this case and it's still free from government control.  Different countries have a different approaches.

As you have said people are using it for storing values but wasn't it suppose to help people to use it as an alternative to fiat? If people buy it only to hold it as they did with gold and other precious commodities then we can not consider it as a payments system. It become an ultimate way of storing values which redirected its sole purpose of creation.

What Bitcoin is for is totally up to you. You're not forced to use it as a currency if you don't want to; because freedom is one of the main points, right? Satoshi put up the groundwork and initial specifications on the whitepaper, but in the end it will be totally up to the people what the direction of Bitcoin will go, not Satoshi.

Bitcoin is not supposed to be a magic pill to that. You are getting this wrong. You are always under the government's control however you might put it. You are a human and you need to survive, therefore you will need a place to live, food to eat. Bitcoin was created with the idea of being an alternative to fiat due to problems that fiat had, nothing more.

People who have a red-pilled concept of government control being pressurized on them have this mentality and frankly, this is a wrong concept.

The ones who do are in no comparison called "big". They are niche and niche markets are always "small".

If your metric about being "ahead" of fiat, which is absurd in the first place, is being accepted in big marketplaces, then you will remain disappointed for a long time. For that to happen you need the support of the government, refer to what I said in the first few lines about fanatic bitcoiners being wrong about government pressure.

Again your metric should be the pros and cons that bitcoin offers and those are working as intended.

A country banning bitcoin mining does not mean all countries would do the same so dont cherry pick on this. It will take them time to accept this and it will happen eventually as more countries become lenient towards it. At the same time we bitcoiners also have a job of spreading awareness and the pros and cons of bitcoin to our close relatives.

Bitcoin can not fulfill this purpose without the involvement of the government (perhaps that's the part satoshi did not take into account) as long as there is government in existence they will not stay aside and watch btc becoming an alternative to fiat without any interference,
The government will always use that power and influence to suppress btc growth as an alternative payment system because they want to control it, so in other for this to happen, the government must be part of it, otherwise, the purpose will always remain unfulfilled.

Regarding point one, it remains to be seen whether this is a real alternative in the future. At the moment it is used partly as currency and partly as investment, but I don't see it being a real alternative to cash in the short term, even considering how fast the use of cash is being reduced around the world.

Regarding government control, I think today it is much more controlled than Satoshi and the cyberpunks thought. Private use of Bitcoin, apart from going through centralized exchanges, is in the minority. But that is partly why it is becoming more and more widespread.

Bitcoin was meant to displace centralised payment methods such as PayPal. It was supposed to provide a more secure alternative. It was supposed to help the unbanked. It was supposed to have many other useful uses. But when it reached mass market, it was unable to match up to its ideals.
But regardless, Bitcoin is still an alternative to fiat currencies. It still remains a payment method. It will still find its place. Regarding the ban, no country will be able to ban Bitcoin entirely due to its decentralized nature. Users will still find a way to continue using the Bitcoin network.

It has literally achieved both of those things? It is alternative to fiat currency and you may not like the amount of places that accept bitcoin but it is an alternative, there is a whole nation that turned it into official legal tender at this point, and that happened in just a bit over 10 years, wait a few more decades and we may have whole continents accepting it.

On the other hand, it is not controlled by nations as well, it could be regulated, but not controlled. Nations print their own money and cause hyper inflation and so forth whereas we are talking about crypto getting more valuable because it cannot be printed however you want, there is mining and that is it. So all in all it is exactly how it was created for and there is nothing missing.

Does it promise anything? Maybe people are just expecting to much that's why they look for unrealistic things with bitcoins. I see some threads here asking or claiming that bitcoin will replace fiat or to become a 1 currency in the world and which is not possible for bitcoin to happen. Although it became an alternative to fiat already and we can see some services and other product use this as means of payment so overall bitcoin achieve this one.

Hostility about it is normal since some country try to control its existence and you shouldn't get alerted on it since those what they impose will change in future.

Bitcoin is an alternative to fiat currency. You can actually pay what a fiat currency can pay using Bitcoin (depends on the merchant/establishment). You can actually convert Bitcoin to a fiat currency and vice versa.
Most of us failed to notice that because a lot of people treats Bitcoin as a store of value rather than a currency.

Does the government have control over Bitcoin? If a certain country ban the use of Bitcoin, does that mean the citizen of that country can no longer use or invest to Bitcoin?
As long as there is an internet, the government cannot stop a person in using/investing to Bitcoin.

May be we are on the verge of something like this. Though we know the fact that it can not be fully controlled by the government of any nation, there is still little aggression that all the banks, govtm. etc are trying to intercept bitcoin. Obviously they know very well, if crypto gonna overcome the settlement then they are done with their dirty business!

I am also little doubtful about government. If they wished then they would have formed an international committee on this and would have banned it long ago.

Know why they did not do it? Well, they have their personal interests and they know they can benefit from its use if it bended in right way and right direction. Thats what happening at the moment.

What China's ban ever showed is they like manipulating Bitcoin's price.  The amount of times they banned and un-banned Bitcoin or mining makes it obvious, and now Russia is likely following their strategy.  Similar to what E. Musk has done with the markets before, banning and un-banning is a good strategy to accumulate Bitcoin at a low price.

I do not think Bitcoin has failed its purpose.  It is still free from government control, even banned.  Even if banned by law, you can still use it unlike bank accounts turning useless once frozen.  The technology is still young.  How many US citizens owned an Apple product back in the '90s?  How many own an Apple product today?  Humans are skeptical about new technologies.  Even more if the technology becomes a potential banking system's threat.

In order for Bitcoin to succeed, governments need more time to find a way to accept the inevitable while losing the least amount of power possible.  To me, Bitcoin's continuous evolution means it is here to stay and it is slowly fulfilling its purpose.  As long as it has never shown signs of failure, why would it be failed?

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Regards,
PrivacyG

I think it failed on some of the original intentions, particularly on being a peer/to/peer system. I would say that it is reasonably free from government control, in the sense that you can exchange without a third party authorisation. The fact that there are regulations is not the same thing as being controlled. One thing is to make illegal to transact and a very different one to actually be able to control.

This only happen because we dream adoption, and in order to achieve adoption, bitcoin should be regulated, otherwise it will be illegal and it's punishable to use bitcoin for transactions, we have to admit the reality that we have a government and we are living in a centrlized world, so that thing cannot be eliminated, the only decentralization is on the blockchain, other than that, it's already centralized.

You have to understand that being an "Alternative" currency does not mean that it is a replacement for the Fiat currency. I think down deep, Satoshi knew that Bitcoin will never replace Fiat currencies.. and that is why he wrote in his White Paper ..that it will function as an alternative currency.

An alternative currency gives people a choice to opt to use another currency, if they are for whatever reason not satisfied with the only choice they are given. In my opinion all centralized payment options are the direct opposite of decentralized Crypto currencies. Payment systems like Credit cards / Debit cards / Diner Club cards / Loyalty cards / Token systems etc... are all centralized.

So does other cryptocurrencies.
Do you see a high percentage of merchants posting signs in their shops "accepting USDT, LTC, BNB and so on.." No. If Bitcoin fails as an alternative payment then so does the others which are rare to the ears of the population.
I don't think this is the right era just yet. But I do wish I will see it before I go or at least my kids will benefit from its real purpose.

Bitcoin couldn't replace Fiat but it is already being used as an alternative so I still believe that it is fulfilling its purpose. Bitcoin is actually uncontrollable by the government. I also believe that Bitcoin still has a lot to prove and prove but it only needs time and more adoption in the future. It is actually being known in lots of countries and I am sure that it would be adopted more in the coming days.

Not for now.  But I am confident we will in a matter of years.  With new decentralized technologies and protocols coming, we may get to the point where you accept Monero and still receive Bitcoin as a merchant.  Fully decentralized, peer to peer with no gimmick behind.

Take a look at Monero.  They are very close to creating the bridge between Bitcoin and Monero and that would be a game changer.  Imagine you had a company whose only belief is in Bitcoin.  You can accept Monero and use atomic swaps as a gateway so your clients pay in their favorite Cryptocurrency and you only receive the one you believe in.

I sense there will be a time where the typical sign will be 'Accepting Cryptocurrency' and not a specific one.  Decentralization will make it possible.  See Pancake Swap, it is getting very close to reality.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

I don't agree with you in both cases you mentioned here, the first thing you need to attention to is bitcoin is maybe far from the starting days but still, bitcoin has a long way ahead and in this way, bitcoin will be adopted multiple times at lest that's what I know, also bitcoin is already alternative currency to fiat in many cases because in some online shop and even traditional shop you can choose to do your transaction with bitcoin instead of the fiat money.

I might agree with bitcoin as a payment alternative to fiat considering bitcoin is not a legal currency in many countries. The use of bitcoin as a means of payment is an alternative for those who are concerned with privacy and security of transactions even though they are carried out between different countries. Bitcoin gives us more freedom and options than state-owned centralized financial systems.

Regulation and control are two different things. Governments can regulate bitcoin users with regulations but they cannot control bitcoin. This is a unique fact about bitcoin.

I think this is more a case of people assigning it's "purpose" long after the fact without understanding the history behind it. A purpose of Bitcoin was to showcase the blockchain technology - a transparent and open ledger,
 which displays a chain of transactions that anyone across the world can view which can rival the closed source database driven technology behind big banks. For that purpose it has been a staggering success, which is evident by the continued high price it holds and the amount of people who have faith in it as a store of value, that can be later traded into any fiat currency at a moments notice if required. It is an excellent example of a decentralized model that can take resources from many locations to benefit the majority.

You are right that Bitcoins were created to be independent currencies and free from government control. As that they are fulfilling their purposes. Governments have no part in our crytpo transactions with bitcoins, the only thing they can do is ban the use in a country. With that companies are not allowed to accept bitcoins anymore and also the mining is shutdown, but the transactions between two individuals is hard to control for the government. A ban on crypto currencies is never to 100%, there are ways to circumvent the ban. And bitcoins can't do anything if countries decide to ban it, it's part of the game. China is not the best example here because their own currency is not traded freely. The governments intervenes if they feel that the value of the Yuan is too low or too high.

Adoption and recognition is always on the move and there's no such thing about giving out conclusions on what would the future looks like because no one ever knows on what would be its ending value.
Speaking of purpose then it had already done its job but it is just turning out that it does have other applications on which people are utilizing and one of it is on talking about investment.
It might be a little misdirection but not totally the case but rather considering its been part or one of its benefits which we should be thankful at least.

Bitcoin never failed to fulfill the purpose it was created for but the reason why we have the believe that Bitcoin didn't fulfill its purpose is because we're impatient and expect quick results whereas Rome is not built in a day.
The last time I checked the government also agreed that Bitcoin is inevitable, the Chinese government's ban on crypto is a sign that Bitcoin is autonomous and yes, volatility did not stop Bitcoin from being an alternative to fiat currency. However, fiat are also volatile in it own way.

Come to think that it wasnt built for investment or making money but rather trying to have that new payment system which doesnt involved third party which do simply
talks about decentralization and just like that dude above mentioned that people do just utilize its other benefit which is to make profits but doesnt mean that
we had forgotten on whats its actual purpose on this current system we do have.

Bitcoin has probably grown largely into something it wasn't intended for. That it became more of a speculative asset than a digital currency might not have been in Satoshi's mind when he/she/they created it. Although Satoshi somehow likened Bitcoin to gold, he/she/they must have never thought it to simply become a new class of investment. But all changes of how Bitcoin is perceived are all organic more or less. Everybody owns Bitcoin, after all.

Which would you prefer, China adopts Bitcoin by creating its own state wallet for its people to use or China completely bans Bitcoin? I prefer the latter. For that means Bitcoin stays as intended. China is not Bitcoin-free today despite its numerous bans on it.

               First of all, there really is no such thing as complete freedom in this world only freedom that is limited or should I say allowed to some extent that it does not defy the human laws or the law of nature itself. Now in regards to bitcoin being an alternative for fiat, I say that already is working pretty for some people and some parts of the world. And mind you, bitcoin still has years ahead available for it to improve and has been doing good looking at its progress in terms of worldwide adoption. It may have not been able to fill its purpose perfectly, but it already is working fine as it is and will be even better in the future so don't smash your brain worrying about such things. Let time do its job

Investment and utility are different things. You can't expect it to be both utility and investment that easily. Look at gold, it was utility for a long time and surely it was store of wealth as well at the same time but not really an investment, 2000+ years ago people didn't just buy gold and stored it and then sold it in chunks, maybe a few did but consider how many people did versus how many people couldn't, the difference is huge. Same could be said for fiat as well, but can't be said for crypto.

Crypto is easy to use AND invest at the same time. I personally believe that crypto is doing something not unusual, but not commonly available which is giving people a thing to use while purchasing something but also keep it for investment purposes, not just store it like gold neither, I mean true investment, like a house.

It is true that the primary purpose of bitcoin was to enable people to send money online more cheaply, more quickly, and with greater ease of tracking because this was a major problem prior to bitcoin's creation. However, as you can see now, bitcoin was created for investment purposes, even though it was initially used as a payment method. However, most people believe that bitcoin is a good investment, which benefits us as well. Also, for the time being, bitcoin is unfettered by government, with some countries simply prohibiting or legalizing it, rather than regulating it or regulating it directly.

Bitcoin will undoubtedly achieve these goals because governments are attempting to get control over bitcoin, but when they believe this is impossible, they impose bans on its usage in some nations, while others continue to use it. It is currently an alternative to fiat currency because many advanced countries accept Bitcoin as a form of payment. With the advancement of technology, I am confident that the goals will be met one day.

It has not failed in any of those two cases.

1. It's an alternative. An alternative does not mean being as strong as the thing you are alternating from, nor it needs to overcome that specific thing.

2. It has stayed free from governmental control for a long time.

What you are referring to is the current state of BTC, a state that is evolving from its earlier principles in order to surpass its current boundaries and plateaus. So with that in regard, BTC is constantly evolving and with that, it may very well be a 1:1 alternative to FIAT in the future, you are just jumping the gun on that as an evolution of technologies and economic principles as well as social principles does not take a few years that you think it should.

Look man, bitcoin as it is right now is already such a great achievement and if I were satoshi or part of his team, I would be really damn proud. It may have not achieved some of its original purposes but we cannot disregard the fact that it really did fulfill some of them. Also, isn't bitcoin still pretty young considering the number of current circulating supply? This means that bitcoin still has a lot of room to fullfil some other purposes that satoshi or his team originally wanted. Then again, it can go the other way instead. But as it is today, as a person of this industry, I must say that I already am pretty satisfied with how bitcoins n is right now.

I think it was not written in the document of btc that it will replace fiat or will be used as an alternative to fiat but people are free to use btc where they wanted it to be. You don't really need a fiat but a btc can already be enough for you to live because it was still a currency. On your own, your not using your btc as a fiat alternative nor a replacement for fiat. It sounds confusing but I hope you and others get my point ;).

Yes, btc is already adopted by many countries but is that considered as a proof that btc already show its worth because why would they trust btc anyway? So many years have passed and many events have happened but btc is still strong. No need to prove anything.

Although Bitcoin still does not fulfill its original purpose, on the other hand Bitcoin has been useful for many people. I believe Satoshi Nakamoto as
the creator of Bitcoin must be proud that Bitcoin has provided benefits to many people. Although Satoshi Nakamoto would certainly not think that
Bitcoin is very good as an investment asset. It's not easy to fulfill the original purpose, it may take a few more years for the original purpose of Bitcoin
to be achieved. For now, there are still many countries that are neutral towards Bitcoin, the government still needs time to study Bitcoin more deeply.
So just be grateful with the achievements of Bitcoin today, it still needs a lot of education to the majority of people around the world that Bitcoin is
something that we should accept and use. So that human life goes in a better direction and also in the end Bitcoin can fulfill its original purpose.

Heavy expectation what make them confuse about things and maybe they just heard those promises to a random people while the real situation there is we can always decide on where we want to use this and how we take bitcoin for ourselves maybe for now in some other case it can be alternative to fiat but the adoption is not so huge so maybe if legal entities will enter the scene and adopt bitcoin we can provably see the expectation of others will became into reality.

Just to ask first OP, is Bitcoin dead already? You can just tell anything about a failure. For as long as Bitcoin still exists and is alive, the purpose of being considered as a legal tender alternative to fiat money is quite possible. You can't just end up saying it fails already, perhaps, we are very close to that knowing that many countries are into its adoption and growing establishments are also accepting this as a mode of payment.

It can't be done in just one day if we need another decade to wait, hen we have to be patient, anyway.

Bitcoin is still doing fine and there's not a lot of people that's using bitcoin around the world so I wouldn't say that bitcoin has failed to do what it was supposed to do, it's progress, where in the definition of progress says that the change is instant? I don't think that there's none in there. Don't get frustrated, remember that if you're impatient, the metaphorical door is open and you can easily leave.

Without doubt bitcoin is doing the purpose for which it is being innovated. Bitcoin as an alternate isn't much appreciated around the world, but it has gained importance as an alternate investment to stocks and forex. Lot of people have considered bitcoin as the primary investment over the bonds and fixed long term pension schemes. Maybe on its growth with time people find it difficult to spend as a currency though there is good level of acceptance for bitcoin.

Governments always blame it's decentralised accessibility as a prime reason for money laundering and other illegal activities. However they weren't able to have control over the network. Some countries have banned the usage and now studying the market to regulate the usage. As the governments weren't able to have control, more countries have begun to develop CBDC.

Not entirely lost. It is still usable but we are still at a point where there's still bitcoins to be mined. Once they've all been mined, that's when we can truly say whether it failed or not as a currency, if it's still speculative by then.

As for government control, gov't does exert some level of influence but is mostly through control of exchanges and policies regarding conversion.

Sorry but your assumptions are wrong mate, it might interest you to know that bitcoin has actually fulfilled all of its purpose plus a lot of others too that the creator never anticipated.
And also, yes, bitcoin is totally free from government control, like the saying goes "people fear what they can't conquer, hate what they can't control", this is clearly the case with China's ban on cryptocurrencies, Chinese government hate the fact they can't control bitcoin and cryptocurrencies so they clearly see it as a threat to their financial system, hence, they ban it out of fear.

I don't think bitcoin was created against governments and the centralized government financial system that has been around for years. Bitcoin is an innovative payment network and a new currency created to meet the privacy needs of users that have not been obtained from a centralized financial system.

Bitcoin can be used as an alternative means of payment for anyone depending on the legality of bitcoin in our country regardless we also have fiat or other crypto currencies. Other than that, I think bitcoin has never failed even though many countries have banned it as a means of payment.

That is what I was talking about. If countries can ban bitcoin as a means of payment then isn't that failure of bitcoin? Wasn't it suppose to use as a peer-to-peer payments system without any middleman? If there isn't any middleman then how govt still be able to place restrictions for using bitcoin? There is something missing from bitcoin which is preventing it from unleashing its full power.

It is clear to me that people will always downplay bitcoin. I mean even in a situation where bitcoin "failed" to do what it suppose to do, it is 40k+ right now and made many people millionaires. It is so fair that, there are more than 21 millionaires in the world, meaning not every single millionaire will have 1 bitcoin, some of them will have to have less. So that should tell you the future of bitcoin as well.

I do not think that it has failed, but even in that thought we are still doing awesome in profit and adoption. So all these people who keep trying to find some mishap or mistake or failure in bitcoin will never end, they will keep on trying but they will never succeed at all.

I think its too early to say that we have failed on the real purpose on bitcoin because as we can see, its still improving and developing throughout the years. In fact, there are still more adoption happening this time in cases like Russia and hopefully Ukraine. So needless to say, bitcoin is still leading to its main purpose to be used as medium of exchange. We just need to trust the process and hopefully we'll get there soon.

Bitcoin is still developing so most likely, it still working on its own real purpose. However, bitcoin has always been free from the government because its decentralized. But if the government will start to regulate it, somehow bitcoin will be less decentralized since the government will be able to control it slowly. But on bitcoin being an alternative payment, El Salvador even makes it as a legal tender. And hopefully bitcoin will be recognized too in most countries in the years to come. Considering that, bitcoin does not really failed.

There's always those negative critics on bitcoin even how profitable bitcoin is today. And for that, there's nothing we can do but to ignore them. However, if we deal on the real purpose of bitcoin, i guess making it as an alternative payment will only happen if the government will accept it as a currency. Just like El Salvador who was brave enough to accept bitcoin as a legal tender, and they're making benefits from it now. And bitcoin that should stay free from the government, i think with its present status, most of the countries have no control over bitcoin today and this maybe the reason why they don't want to accept it as a legal currency because they can't take full control on it.

Bitcoin will definitely find it hard to become an alternative payment from fiat since the government has always been in its opposition. But on the other hand, we are all aware too that some countries are already eyeing to adopt bitcoin as a medium of exchange. This has started when El Salvador decided to adopt bitcoin and use it as a legal tender. So maybe they are waiting for the right timing to accept bitcoin. That way, bitcoin's purpose has not failed because bitcoin has always its process to follow and unfortunately, the road is tougher for cryptos and bitcoin.

I know and I believe that bitcoin will get there, though it's been a decade past since bitcoin was created by Satoshi but as we will looked back at the time where bitcoin was so new to everyone compare to the current bitcoin we have today I can say that bitcoin have had improved, that how people approached to bitcoin has just improved. I am not sure if how many establishments or businesses out there accepting bitcoin as a mode of payment but I am very optimistic that one day will all of these will going to happen.

There is nothing that can actually define the reason why bitcoins were created in the first place, the reason why bitcoins was created was to cater to the need of every individual holding it, one cannot define if a person uses it as an asset or if he or she uses it as a currency. Government is going to control everything, at the end what's needed is positive control and no negative effect from that side. It haven't failed anything it's important to see the things being done, like El Salvador, Ukraine, Russia,. US every country is doing something important to care and control the whole system which is inevitable. Regulations are not really a bother until and unless they have a space to breathe.

Personally I do not understand why this is used against bitcoin, a form of money is supposed to be a store of value, the gold that you could use hundreds of years ago to buy something can still be used today to buy a lot of stuff, making gold a fantastic store of value, while in the case of fiat you would be lucky to buy 1% of what you could buy with it 100 years ago, so the fact that people prefer to hold their bitcoin shows how strong bitcoin really is compared to fiat.

Sorry to say this but first of all, please change the way you write, it's really difficult and confusing to read. Second, I don't know why you responded to my post with those things you are saying this is just making your post even more confusing and a hassle to read. I wonder if you really took the time to read my post before you quoted it. I maybe wrong here since you might mean something that I cannot understand. If so, please do clarify.

Edit: removed the quoted post and just placed the one I am responding to.

Is that really need to be a store of value to be a legit currency? Then we can store values in real state, lands, oil those can be currency too? It totally depends on people. If sellers accept something in exchange for their product then who will prevent them not doing it? Retail businesses and shops don't want to accept bitcoin because of its instability in price. Bitcoin become the ultimate way of storing value but failed to become a currency till now.

It's a work in progress, Bitcoin can't be a Fiat alternative without fighting some war with centralised entities first and this can take years to accomplish and we shouldn't worry ourselves over it, my belief is bitcoin will make it happen anyways.

Well, not everyone would think like that since I believe both fiat and Bitcoin should exist at the same time. They can't eliminate fiat and switch to Bitcoin since only fiat is being controlled by the government therefore, they can have it while owning a Bitcoin will remain in your own wallet and you are free to use it as you may. So it's just up to the people if they want fiat or Bitcoin, as long as there is a merchant who could accept Bitcoin or fiat if someone wants to withdraw.

So choosing between fiat and Bitcoin is still on a big debate.

In actual it depends on time and on the people and on the technology of future but in this time it seems that usage of bitcoin is more convenient for people as nowadays many of the purchases are done via online services and for fiat people feel it difficult to go through complicated processes of online payment processors. If the usage of bitcoin is allowed by the authorities without any restrictions then people will like to choose bitcoin to use for their daily transactions.

If all the transactions will be done online, then bitcoin will definitely fit for it. But most of the people still prefer fiat because they are used to it especially in the case for older citizens as they are not totally inclined with using new technology payment system. However, i would say that bitcoin has not failed in its own goal because some countries at the moment are already starting to establish solid proofs about bitcoin before they will consider adopting it as a currency. And bitcoin does not end here, good things will certainly happen in the future and maybe by that time, bitcoin will be used already as an alternative to fiat.

They are less in number because even the older citizens often prefer the online payment when they purchase via their bank card. They know about bank cards and they know how to use it. If they will know about bitcoin and they will learn hat how to use it then they will use bitcoin.

But can you live with spending zero bitcoin.

You need to spend it in order to match what so called money ....
Money is meant to be used, it's a medium of exchange .. a transaction tool.
If you just do holding and treat it like an investment , then i think bitcoin is not really used as money , it's used to transfer purchasing power right? That's what most people do right now.
We might use altcoin better as a transaction tool with ts really low fee

If you will only be hodling bitcoin for the rest of your life, that's the time that bitcoin has failed to serve its purpose. Bitcoin is a currency, having it as a good store of value should only be its last option. For now, its reasonable that we are using it as a store of value but when the time comes that bitcoin will be globally accepted, then it should start to function as a currency. However, judging bitcoin by now i don't think it has failed in its purpose. El Salvador has been using it already, and i think Russia and Ukraine will be next to adopt it. So the purpose has been already starting to slowly realized, and before we knew it, majority of the countries are already accepting bitcoin already as a medium of exchange.

The hostility comes from them not been able to control it, they are trying to discourage their citizens from embracing it but so far all their attempts has failed. With this you should understand that its second purpose is been achieved. Bitcoin has never been regulated, the worse the government can do is what they're currently doing. They are trying to sabotage any service that brings adoption to the currency. They can only regulated centralized service providers but that's fine because it only encourages more decentralised service which at the end is what we need in the industry.

The government loses no matter what negative decision they take towards the industry, you don't keep your enemies far instead you draw them closer so you can monitor/observe them to attack on their witness. That's the approach the government would have taken if they want to stand a chance at defeating Bitcoin but that's unlikely to happen.

I believe Bitcoin is still the alternative to the Fiat currencies in the world.

No currency in the world can be out of control from the nation government because there was a currency existing in the state before Bitcoin so it is the decision of the government to accept it or not..

This is why it did really get that much support and recognition because there are people who do really loves out decentralization and anonymity which is totally opposing
on what we do have today which is too centralized.Although there are people who do presume out that it could replace fiat someday which is totally not that possible.
Being optimistic isnt bad but be sure that you should really be realistic because as long government does exist then it wouldnt happen but surely they could
both co-exist.

We can't say that Bitcoin has failed to fulfill its original purpose as a payment alternative. Because Bitcoin is relatively new in this world compared
to fiat, we are too quick to jump to conclusions right now. After all, there are still many people who don't know Bitcoin or even get the wrong
information about Bitcoin. Currently, only a few countries accept Bitcoin as payment. But in the future the majority of countries will accept Bitcoin
as payment. Today many countries are too afraid of their country's currency being replaced by Bitcoin, even though the purpose of Bitcoin was
not created to replace fiat. The majority of people in the world do take longer to realize that they should use Bitcoin as a payment alternative.
So there comes a time when Bitcoin will reach its goal, at least the next decade will see significant changes in this world, I predict the next decade
will see Bitcoin getting closer to its original purpose.

It's still too early to tell that bitcoin has failed to do its purpose. Bitcoin is still on its early years. There still so much more waiting for it in the future. Right now, bitcoin is doing exactly what is intended for it. It serves as analternative payment option for online transactions in several countries already. Some countries even made and are planning to adopt bitcoin as their legal tender. The fact that it does not only plays as an alternative choice, but becomes the choice itself is an achievement for out community. Aside from being a store of value, it is now used to be a medium of exchange. Indeed, bitcoin has been becoming more popular and used in other parts of the world. It is fulfilling its purpose of becoming a "currency" slowly. And we should notice that.

The banning and the status of legalization of crypto and bitcoin is beyond our control. It is the government's choice and we have no power over it. But that doesn't mean that the government is having a leverage to control and manipulate bitcoin. The government just dictates the legality of it in their scope of leadership, but it isn't directly involved in the mechanisms and dynamics of bitcoin in the market. Because after all, bitcoin is decentralized. They can try to put regulations as much as they want, but they can't touch bitcoin itself because it isn't that easy to wrap it around their fingers.

Bitcoin isn't controlled by any government yet so I don't see how it has failed it's purpose yet, in the means of alternative, I think that it's a gradual process and it's also next to impossible given that it's going to cause a massive power vacuum when fiat is suddenly replaced by bitcoin, and the financial institutions threatened by it's existence is also trying to hinder the progress because they will get obsolete real fast.

Alternative to fiat in my own understanding from your post @Op you mean bitcoin can also serve the full functionality every other fiat posses and still grant you your privacy and also protect from a third party intermediary if this be the point then that is it. Bitcoin has actually fulfilled its full purpose then giving you full control of your coin using cryptographic hash function.

Bitcoin does have its own function
Fiat does have its own function

It would only differ on some aspects thats why its just right that both would co-exist on which we could at least have the option on which one we would really prefer to use.
I dont know on why such thing on claiming out about its purpose had been failed to fulfill considering on how far we do able to reach out.

From the pointers OP stated, I believe both items have been successfully accomplished by bitcoin already. It is now an alternative payment method to fiat and it is still free from government control. No government has the sole control over bitcoin as it can exist even without government's mandate. There may be regulation in some countries, but they won't get the sole power over bitcoin's market, because they can't as it is decentralized. So I don't know what the OP wants for bitcoin. I won't consider this as a failure because we will not be here if it has failed its purpose.

People have used a lot of things as money through history, and money has a very specific set of characteristics, like being fungible, durability, portability being a unit of account and being a store of value, the main reason why bitcoin is still not used as a currency has to do with the Gresham's law, if you have the option to use two forms of money, one that losses its value over time and one that gains it, which do you use to buy what you want? And the answer is obvious, you use the form of money which losses value while you keep the one that against it, or in other words you use your fiat while you keep your bitcoin.

Bitcoin is an alternative to fiat, but not a replacement. Indeed Bitcoin is going to gain massive adoption and there will be lots of people who will be making use of it for transactions, but that wouldn’t mean that it would replace fiat. You have to know that fiat is the conventional currency of every country, and every country must have their own official currency.

Bitcoin is not a currency that belongs to any country at all, so it’s just going to be the internet money as some people do say, and not a currency that would replace anything. No government can control Bitcoin, that is why it is decentralized. It can’t be controlled at all.

There are tons of people who keep forgetting this fact. Bitcoin is decentralized, maybe the last project that is left that we could be considering truly decentralized as well. Sure there are some changes with segwit and all that, it is not the legacy blockchain that all things started with, but it is not really that bad and can be considered decentralized. ETH has vitalik, LTC has charlie, USDT has tether/bitfinex, Tron has Justin, SOL has team that freezes the blockchain, ADA has team that fails to deliver smart contract, I can go on forever, ALL projects have a team at the top and the moment they leave, the project becomes horrible.

Bitcoin is not like that, leave it be like this forever without touching anything and it will survive no matter what. This is why it is 100% succeeding at what it wants to do and have not failed at it at all.

Well, that is one of the real purpose of bitcoin, to act as an alternative to fiat, and not literally to replace it because that will never happen. And for me, it has already achieved by El Salvador, and hopefully for those countries like Russia, Ukraine and US who have started to legalize bitcoin and regulate it, but maybe in the long run they will adopt bitcoin too as an alternative to their official currency.

And for bitcoin to stay out of control from the government, i don't think it will be fully possible. Because once the government decides to legalize bitcoin, then they will have the less control on it already as they can regulate it from all of its activities.

With regards to bitcoin being an alternative for fiat, i can see that there is an ongoing process leading to that. But we can't expect that bitcoin could become an instant alternative to fiat without legalizing bitcoin first in countries that have not yet undertake on proposing bills for bitcoin. After legalization, if the government finds bitcoin has more potentials to become a currency, then that's the time they will pass another bill for that. I guess bitcoin to become an alternative currency will still pass a lot of government critics, but as bitcoin has become mainstream these days, the countries will find it more advantage adopting it as a currency, hopefully. So it has not failed its purpose yet, because its still working on its process.

Bitcoin was created to be a money system to get goods and services. However it is more used to as a means of investment to make gains and get more Fiat currency. Which is more the popular option as it seems. Sure in the Satoshi white paper it does state it can be used as investment means. But it was made to be used as a system of money. Which is not really happening, in some cases it is. Yes you can purchase some goods and services with BTC. however BTC has high value that some people may not want to part with their BTC in the time being,

more less BTC is not a failure. it has benefits in more ways then one/. but like anything, there are positives and negatives to almost anything.

The "alternative, not replacement" is something that people do not really understand all that much. It has to be said very carefully and understood by everyone. It is really something that is very very important to people to understand.

There is nothing that can be emphasized enough considering how difficult it is at the current moment because it is not really a questionable thing at the moment. Think of it like this, if we are considering something that is risky like investing into a big amount then we need to know the difference because if you are investing with the hopes that you are going to ned up with bitcoin as main currency then you are going to end up with a big loss for sure, since that won't happen.

Bitcoin is fulfilling the purpose for which it was created. That some countries have chosen to ban Bitcoin doesn’t mean that it is not living up to that purpose.

Bitcoin was created to be decentralized, and ‘free from govt. control’, that’s why in those countries where you say they have banned cryptocurrency, people don’t actually stop making use of cryptocurrency, they still make use of it by using peer-to-peer trading services, and non custodial crypto wallets. So, that shows that the government are not able to stop the usage of cryptocurrency by banning it in the country. Bitcoin still remains an alternative to fiat, we use it for transactions as well.

The major obstacle preventing Bitcoin from fulfilling its purpose as an alternative to fiat is its legalization by the government. We know that
the majority of countries in the world still reject Bitcoin as a means of payment, and only legalize Bitcoin as a digital asset. This of course
makes Bitcoin users still rarely dare to use Bitcoin as payment, for fear of breaking the law. But with the passage of time, emerging countries
like El Salvador are boldly legalizing Bitcoin as a legal tender. This is actually a positive sign that Bitcoin is still in the process of fulfilling its goals.
So I agree that it is not to say that Bitcoin has failed to fulfill its original purpose, but rather that it is still in the process of getting there,
maybe the process is not easy and takes a long time. But I am optimistic that in the future there will be a time when all countries will legalize
Bitcoin as payment. So there is really nothing we can do but be patient waiting for it to become a reality.

This is a long process to go before this will become officially as alternative to fiat but its slowly happening right now as their are certain merchants which accept bitcoins and also this was been used by people to pay services online and other more so if we think open our mind on we can still say it serves it purpose already but certain regulation has limits its spreading that's why for now we can see limited usage of bitcoin around the world, in future for we can see a amazing adoption knowing bitcoin now is a strong digital asset which is want by many human being.

There was a narrative created by the users and not by Satoshi himself. Satoshi was not happy with Wikileaks accepting BTCitcoin when other payment systems were rejecting them from accepting user funds and you think he was against the government or trying to avoid attention if they start accepting BTCitcoin payment. BTCitcoin is an alternative but you cannot expect it is a replacement to fiat. The government can control over third party providers and exchanges but not have complete control over the BTCitcoin network.

It works for me.  I use Bitcoin to pay for my bills, buy items online, pay for game credits and many more that work the same way spending fiat currency.  I don't know what is your meaning of being alternative, but I also believe that it will never replace fiat currency because of the current government and financial institutions' authority beliefs atm.



Bitcoins network system is free from gov't control and I believe it will stay as it is.  As the earlier reply stated, being banned doesn't mean it is controlled.  It is simply being rejected. and these two words (controlled, banned) are very different from each other.


I think you are referring to global adoption not being an alternative payment to fiat because it (Bitcoin) is already working as an alternative at least to its (Bitcoin) users/holders, the lacking is the global adoption and system that will use it as global payment that can be accessed by everyone.

Any point of centralization is going to be eventually attacked by governments, that is something that we have known from the very beginning and that is why satoshi made bitcoin a decentralized currency, it is obvious that exchanges at some point were going to be obligated by governments to ask for your personal information if you wanted to deposit or withdraw your coins, this was inevitable, but that doesn't prove that you cannot obtain some level of privacy by using cryptocurrencies, as long as you avoid centralized services you can still obtain a pretty good level of privacy without too much effort.

I agree that the narrative has been made by the users. But it only for thw good because one would never have through bitcoin becoming a global attraction in the future. So it has outdid it's purpose if you ask me. Has it been so much of a failure then nobody would have been talking about it and this forum would likely have died out.

These are only proofs one needs to accept that Bitcoin has become more than what it was supposed to be. For now we should make sure to profit from the same and not stop investing when prices fall.

Its already alternative to fiat as of this moment but the main issue is that it isnt really that regulated which is something you can call for it to be that really legalized or something like that but speaking with overall

utility and usage then we are actually seeing it and the demand is keeping on rising as years passing which means that theres really some support to it.It hasnt failed but also it hasnt succeeded yet.

Just dont mind or think that it could replace fiat anytime soon because it wouldnt happen no matter what if you do ask me.

Yes Bitcoin didnt fail but not completely succeeded because not everyone is aware of its existence to use it as an alternative to fiat. However for those who are already using Bitcoin (either as currency or investment), they can already use it as currency for purchasing online since many shopping stores and merchants are already adopted Bitcoin as their accepted means of payment. So its a matter of choice for users who already engage themselves because we have the right where we want to use it for our own benefit.

On the other side, Bitcoin remain uncontrolled by the Government however like what other replies said, it can be regulated. Despite that many countries are now starting to adopt Bitcoin, set it as legal (though not as legal tender). Hence people can use it freely and not being restricted, its a good thing already.

Bitcoin is being recognized and used legally in many countries, but I don't think it will replace fiat in the future. Each country will have its own currency, and the value of that currency is a measure of the development of that country. Currently, the dollar is considered the main currency used for exchange in the world. And this is a position that I don't think Americans will easily lose.
 The potential and important role of bitcoin has been most evident in the war between Russia and Ukraine. With the entire banking system frozen, bitcoin is the only thing that can help them now. After this war, I think many countries will legalize bitcoin as a payment instrument parallel to fiat.

Bitcoin has slowly become mainstream and known to everyone. This is why some of those institutional investors preferred bitcoin over fiat. But is it really acting as an alternative to fiat right now? I would not say no, nor yes. Other countries may have accepted it legally while some are still hesitant and chose to regulate rather than use it as a currency. However, i believe the process will not be easy. Fiat is still more valuable because it is backed by the government and central bank and that people are already used to it. And for bitcoin to remain uncontrolled by the government, until now its still decentralized. But with those planned regulations later on like USA, the government may likely to have less controlled on it.

Bitcoin can be controlled more less indirectly. The powers that be ,  media, your peers can influence others with negative comments and feedback towards Bitcoin. Which can deter others from wanting to get Bitcoin. That is more less how it can be controlled.  The less people to want to desire bitcoin then the value will never go up as desired. That is just how it can be controlled.

Bitcoin has it's pro's and con's. But it is not perfect. It may not be the best solution as a money system. It could work as it. However right now would you want to part ways with your Bitcoin to buy a coffee? Yes you can do it. But Bitcoin has too much value for one to want to do that. Just the same if you owned Gold. Would you part ways with your piece of Gold to buy a coffee. You can do it, but would you want to do it.

You rather hang on to that piece of gold for as long as possible. Due to its high value.

The catch 22

Adoption and recognition is on the move and one proof is that there are indeed a place which do make it as a legal tender but somehow we do know that we cant please everybody which means there would be places which

would really be having always that negative impressions towards bitcoin.Did it failed? No it isnt, because government didnt able to surpress it out its overall existence on which it does still exist
and becoming mainstream as days been doing which does prove out that it does have that potential that everybody wasnt expecting for.