Bitcoin Forum

From the past decade, bitcoin failed to add any value to the real world. It was supposed to be an alternative payments solution but it become an assets class for storing values. Its technology is old, slow, and expensive compared to many altcoins. Still, people investing in bitcoin because of its extremely fast-moving advantages compared to other assets like stock and gold and its extensive nature. Is the objective of bitcoin is dead or has it's been redirected on purpose?

I disagree with you, bitcoin is preferred in the real world and adopted as a means of payment compared to thousands of other altcoins. People can invest in bitcoin and make it a store of value because they want to make a profit and that is another option of bitcoin that you get other than as a means of payment.

Not everyone has the same thoughts about bitcoin as you do, while most people think that bitcoin is more secure, can increase privacy, and is cheaper than other centralized payment systems. You can choose your own fees when sending bitcoins and this will affect the speed at which your transactions are confirmed within a block.

In my opinion no, bitcoin's goal has been achieved although not everyone likes it. You can use bitcoin as a means of payment if you wish, but you cannot expect bitcoin to be legal tender globally. Bitcoin is the payment option if you like privacy and security, so bitcoin's goal has actually been achieved although not everyone uses it as a means of payment.

It wasnt redirected on purpose, it is just people do find out the other way on making it more useful in terms on making profits rather than on its true application as a decentralized thing.
Its true that it might be outdated compared into those new coins in the market but nothing beats out the king of crypto which is simply Bitcoin.This is the origin and the rest would
remain as an alternative and no matter how advanced it would be but still the demand couldnt really be beaten up but somehow nothing is assured on what the future looks like
but we know that demand and support would really be there.

Bitcoin functions as a peer-to-peer currency which basically makes it an alternate payment solution, and it is accepted by a number of merchants and also different platforms. But this was not the objective of bitcoin, it is a free, decentralized network you can use for different purposes.

The technology of bitcoin is more secure than all other altcoins. transactions speed and amount are also adjustable.

What "value" did you want it to add to your "real world"
Because from what I see, it has already achieved a lot.
- Thanks to Bitcoin I can now transfer funds at low fees
- Bitcoin made the blockchain technology more popular and more institutions are working on using it
- As a retail trader, I can also be able to trade Bitcoin freely minus having to be restricted like it is with stocks, forex and other markets

How about the fiat system and so-called gold you like.

Nope it's not. It's perhaps your way of thinking that has been redirected.

bitcoin was meant as a currency for the unbanked.

some seen it to mean 'new cash system'(daily spend) method, others deem it as a 'asset class'(savings account) method
some see it as a base protocol for side projects

most altcoins and their side projects are just gimmicks,
yes they get viral meme trends. but they dont actually get much usage

take DOGE.
soo many memes but only 30k asics mining it.. yet bitcoin has 1.7mill asics
bitcoin is 58x more mining devices than doge(comparing most efficient asics per network)

ethereum are about to 'detonate diff bomb' to move away from PoW mining. they know they cant scale and so their coin is going to turn cheap when more people profit from a negligible passive cost of just "stake and wait"

who's going to want to pay $3k for eth on the market if they can stake for $0loss and wait X hours to form a block for:
$1.09/eth ($2.40 of pc electric for 2.2 coin(current estimate of 7% of network staking))
$15.58/eth ($34.29 of pc electric for 2.2 coin(current estimate of 100% of network staking))

no one will pay $3k/eth when they can 'stake and wait' an eth for $1.10- $15.60.
expect Ethereum price to correct down massively when it flips to PoS.

bitcoin will remain a strong network. giving it a good bases for side projects to rely on its security. yes some projects have had mega flaws and not become the "solution" presented 5 years ago. but that wont stop bitcoin from trying other things

bitcoin can create its own NFT sidechain.. its not that difficult

At most, you'll see litecoin, ethereum, bitcoin, bcash, maybe doge - as has always been the meme - and stable coins being accepted by means of payment for more widespread usage.

Bitcoin is the most secure crypto we have, it has the largest user base and is the most heard of crypto by common folk. This is why it's invested in, it being slow isn't really a problem when speed is a tradeoff for security.

If everyone wanted to, they could move to a cheaper chain with faster transactions on mass and cause everyone else to move - this hasn't been done, clearly people have the most faith in bitcoin compared with other crypto assets.

bitcoin doesnt need to change. EG it doesnt need to alter itself to fit silly things like LN. when it can just peg off a sidechain that allows more utility. either with faster blocks or bigger blocks or changing the units from sats to sub-sats.
smart contracts are gimmicky without a blockchain(network wide audit) so instead of changing bitcoin to meet some silly smart contract network of no mass audit security. bitcoin can offshoot many sidechains..
EG US.bits(american bitcoin network for 100sat denominated transactions)
EG UK.bits(british bitcoin network for 100sat denominated transactions)
where bitcoin mainnet is the IMF/world bank of many sidechains

You wrote a bunch of bullshit because you clearly have no idea what Bitcoin or how it works, and you probably got ''educated'' with this fake knowledge on youtube watching shitcoin promoters.
Bitcoin is not old technology at all, it is only decentralized coin that exist in the world, all other shitcoins are centralized and they are not using any new revolutionary technology.
Nothing is redirected for Bitcoin, except maybe attention of some people who are blinded by greed and fake promises if ICO's schemes with premine.

He got influenced to believe into those things? Possibly yet its not really that rare that there are lots of wrong informations or show ups against Bitcoin on which these newbies or
do lack out of experience would really be ending up on having this kind of impression or belief just because they have seen it somewhere.IT was never been intended for the sake
of investment on the first place.If they do just look basically on its whitepaper alone then they would totally get on whats the true motive on why its been created.

But you can still used it as payment system isn't it? What do you mean old? There is one recent development, which is LN (lightning network),  to enable instant payment.


Again, the purpose is still there, maybe the right term is that it has evolved because it become a class asset. Nevertheless, bitcoin can still be used for micro-payment scheme as envisioned by Satoshi himself.

Bitcoin had no objective, it's not a being it's not an entity it possesses no thoughts, it's a tool, it is used by humans to achieve their objectives.
What were those objectives 10-8 years ago and what are now when we speak about the majority, that's a debatable change, probably it was looked at more like a censorship-resistant currency and less as a tool to get rich not it's probably more of the later, I would certainly doubt any figures that put more than 10% of the new poeple entering the crypto science for any other purpose than making money.
Sad truth but that's how everything ends up in human society, a thing that doesn't generate additional value will always be tossed aside.


Unlike a car, a plane or a computer BTC is just code.
You can't make a rotary engine 100hp plane breach the sound barrier no matter what you try but with bitcoin it's simple, look at LN, then take a beer and enjoy somebody on this topic losing his mind over the lighting network.  :D

It didn't fail to add real world. It even gave value to the people and made a lot of people very satisfied from what it is.

There's no problem on it, both use has always been there and none of them became crossed out as its usage. Being used as a store of value and payment method, bitcoin is the way to go and that's why there's no problem with that.

How about fiat? they're older and slower when you go to the usual payment methods. Choose the altcoin you like and it's entirely okay for us to hold this expensive crypto.

If there's any objective that bitcoin has, it has never been dead. The purpose will always be the same and it's just us, the people who are using it are using it in different many ways.

Bitcoin is the first layer, and it's better than ever.

In terms of fast payments, that's the second layer. Lightning ⚡ has been fantastic for this. It takes a couple of seconds to make payments with it and it's almost free.

You can see lightning in action in many places now. For example, exchanges (https://github.com/theDavidCoen/LightningExchanges), and stores (https://www.lightningnetworkstores.com/). You can also see cool things done with the lightning's lnurl protocol (https://github.com/fiatjaf/awesome-lnurl), and how lightning is being used in El Salvador (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/markets/lightning-network-bitcoin-usage-adoption-el-salvador), where Bitcoin is legal tender. If you're interested to see the state of the lightning network, have a look here (https://txstats.com/dashboard/db/lightning-network?orgId=1&from=now-2y&to=now).

If you're looking for a lightning wallet, here are some great ones, all of these are non-custodial:

- Muun (https://muun.com/)

- Blixt (https://blixtwallet.github.io/)

- Breez (https://breez.technology/)

- Phoenix (https://phoenix.acinq.co/)

- Zeus (https://zeusln.app/)

If you just want the simplest one to use, go with Muun.

In terms of applications, there are many new developments on top of lightning. That's the third layer.

Some examples:

- Sphinx (https://sphinx.chat/). Decentralized chat/social media/etc, you can even sell your texts/photos/media out of the box. All using sats.

- Juggernaut (https://www.getjuggernaut.com/). Similar to sphinx. All using sats.

- impervious (https://www.impervious.ai/). P2P everything with payments built-in. All based on lightning.

- Login with your lightning wallet (https://lightninglogin.live/) instead of user/pass

- lightning address (https://lightningaddress.com/). Make your own lightning address for simpler payments in lightning.

- zebedee API (https://zebedee.io/developers/api). API to use sats as micro-payments in games.

- If you ever need to send a fax, you can do it with lightning (https://bitcoinfax.net/)

- And if you need to send an SMS instead, here's how to send it with lightning (https://lnsms.world/)

Check out this cool visualization of lightning nodes on a map (https://explorer.acinq.co/)

There's always new stuff going on around Bitcoin, specially now around lightning, which is very fast, and almost free.

Its utility as a payments system is not really redirected or removed from its core, it's just that people found some other uses for bitcoin and I guess that is fine. Also, bitcoin originally wants you to "be your own bank," so I guess keeping your money on bitcoin, and letting it accrue profit over time still embodies bitcoin's objective partly. It's still alive, it's just payments is not really the priority for most people right now because they are profiting from bitcoin.

It is to say that the main reason for its existence is to become an alternative to fiat money and yeah, we are already there.
If you do not know OP, some countries like El Salvador have already accepted Bitcoin as a mode of payment which could prove that we are very close to achieving it. We need more time for this as we know that adoption can't be instant and many people are still leaving in the doubts and have no knowledge about Bitcoin which perhaps we can't urge them anyway.

Umm what?

I mean first of all it is still very early in Bitcoin's adoption. A global form of money doesn't just grow organically from one person to an entire world in a decade or so.

Also you say it hasn't added any value to the world and then the very next sentence you point out it has become an asset class for storing value - which is a very important thing.

Old, slow, expensive? Since when? Show me a single altcoin that does what Bitcoin does. There aren't any.

Bitcoin's objective has not died nor been repurposed. It is still on it's path to becoming the global currency and store of value for humanity in the digital age.

Not to mention the fact that Bitcoin has added a TON of value to the real world already, even at this early stage. People in countries with crappy currencies are using it to not go broke, people all over the world are using it to grow their wealth and store value, it is being used to stop the massive waste of energy by turning unused and stranded energy into productive economic value, it is using to efficiently transfer value in the forms of payments and remittances, not to mention the fact that it has caused an entire new global industry to spring up out of nothing, consisting of many billion+ dollar companies and many smaller companies and many many jobs. These are all things it has already done even at this early stage 13 years after being invented. Now please explain to me how none of these things represent real value to the world.

In fact, until now bitcoin can still be an alternative payment, and there are even some countries that have actually been positive about payments using bitcoin so far, such as El Salvador, besides that America also tends to be neutral in this case, because even they continue to suppress the adoption of bitcoin in other countries, but in fact they do not prohibit large companies in America from accepting payment for products using bitcoin as has been done by Tesla, Apple and Paypal.
But indeed now the majority of many countries emphasize the use of bitcoin as investment assets, because indeed many countries may not be able to see the broad benefits of using bitcoin, so they are more inclined to regulate bitcoin only as an investment asset, but I think that in the future if a country like El Salvador be able to benefit greatly from a their bitcoin adoption, of course other countries will also follow the steps taken by El Salvador.
So let's wait and see ..!

Hey!

Take a look with many online marketplace and El Salvador which actually added Bitcoin as a payment alternative, seems you're not searching and visit this section, that's why you can only judge without research.

The technology isn't old, it's always have improvement... the recent development is taproot. Slow and expensive is subjective depends how much fee you want to paid, also don't forgot ETH fees is really ridiculous compared to BTC.

Even if bitcoin is considerd as a store of value, more than a medium of exchnage, what difference does it make ? At present we are using fiat money for transcation and gold as a store of value. Think of future when both store of value and medium of exchange will be merged by bitcoin. As the bitcoin adaption increases, we will see more people using bitcoin in thier business

It's not yet but it's slowly been accepted by everyone else until everyone will decide to make it one of their official currency. right now, we see more of the good news about it that hasn't been there before also we have lots of clarity regarding criminal activities. It's only 10+ years after its first creation. there will be lots of surprises and twists in the next years to come which will make it even stronger than today and more trust from the other countries as well.

In my opinion, the goal of Bitcoin has never died, the primary goal of creating Bitcoin in my opinion was to create a new financial system out of control completely and is not linked to any economy or state, a decentralized system and can not be controlled or stopped. Bitcoin succeeded in it completely.
As for the other part of the question, there are many attempts to redirect Bitcoin by governments to prevent Bitcoin to achieve its goal and re-control on the system fully but we can say they failed to stop Bitcoin or redirect it so far.

Well sure sounds like you’re a hater of bitcoin or you just don’t understand how things work. Bitcoin has been used as a means of payment plenty of time. I use it for that purpose all of the time. Bitcoin being “slower” than other coins is partially true but what you seem to fail to understand is that when you have that much traffic on a network it’s going to slow things up. Altcoins don’t have nearly that much traffic. Things will improve.

As long as bitcoin goes up in value it will attract more people. People don't give a damn about its use case tbh. They never did. And bitcoin will always go up because it has limited supply so I don't see it failing in the near future at least. Stocks and gold are boomer plays they are dying. Bitcoin is thriving.

The presence of bitcoin has given freedom for every community to finance their finances without any interference from the government because by using bitcoin of course we can do whatever we want such as making transactions between users, making it an investment asset and can also be used as an alternative payment even though currently many governments who refuses to accept bitcoin as legal tender in their country.

Bitcoin showed that money doesn't have to be strictly controlled by any particular government. It also demonstrated that it doesn't have to contain the hidden tax of inflation in it. Thirdly, it allows transactions all over the world without the use of banks and without the use of IDs. I think it did enough, and then the rest is determined by consumers' behavior. Some people hodl it, some trade, others actually try to spend it as money. Bitcoin is versatile, and with a little help it can be used as money. So obviously, Bitcoin's not dead, its objective has been reached, and now people can do whatever they want with it, and it's fine.

It could really be used on various ways neither be sticking out with that payment thing or would totally be focusing out with investment matter which it isnt surprising that people would really be focusing

more on how to make profits rather than on minding on its actual usage or the main essence of its existence which i couldnt really blame them off.Its not redirected but people are just focusing

on the thing on where they could really benefit the most which even myself  would definitely be choosing it as well.

That's the basic idea behind the creation of bitcoin but what the OP is trying to stress over here is whether we are using Bitcoin for the same purpose for which it was created or its used as an investment purpose like we buy stock when the price dips and sells when it's at peak and somewhere due to emergence of too many Altcoins the original purpose of bitcoin has been lost and now crypto market has become competitive and noone use it for peer to peer transactions.

We did not know anything regarding the objective of Bitcoins since at the end of the day, the objective of Bitcoins is dependent more upon the person who is using it. At the end of the day I do think that freedom of owning your own money without any interference from the government and authorities is extremely important using it as an asset as well is something that is taking people literally out of all the struggles as well. They are able to find their jobs and at the same time it can also evolve in a global currency. With most government accepting bitcoins , I do think that the value is already being recognized worldwide.

We really got that freedom? Can I use bitcoin in china without any fear? If they can track my transaction and arrest me for using bitcoin then how I become financially free! Bitcoin was supposed to create an environment for the decentralized economy but all these centralized exchanges really helping anyway to make the economy decentralized or it's becoming more centralized with a label of decentralization?

The purpose of Bitcoin is not been forfieted and you can't say it has failed to add up to real world values. Bitcoin was intended to serve as an alternative form of digital currency in a decentralized network protocol. Now the rise in price hasn't changed anything. If eventually it gets global adoption we have 1 satoshi which is equivalent to 100 million Bitcoin which is still in good shape to serve the purpose. We can possibly use sats for currency while Bitcoin retains it's store of value purpose the technology hasn't failed yet it was well planed to curb the inflation