Bitcoin Forum

UPDATE: WE ARE LIVE CHECK THE ANNOUNCEMEN THERE: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391064.0 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391064.0)


Hi guys,

So recently I have received an option to buy a company that can provide Virtual Visa Debit Card. However, there are enough of these companies available so I'm looking for a niche.
My plan is to make it possible to buy real Virtual Visa Debit Card (Not a Giftcard)  with cryptocurrencies and service like PerfectMoney.

I have 2 products in mind. A refundable and a nonrefundable visa cards

Product 1#
A refundable and withdrawable Virtual Visa Debit Card. (KYC needed)
Refundable with crypto, credit cards, perfectMoney and a couple of local payment methods.
Withdraw from your Virtual Visa Debit Card to: Bank, PayPal and other local methods.

Product 2#
A nonrefundable and non-withdrawable Virtual Visa Debit Card.  (No KYC)
You can buy unlimited amounts of pre-funded cards, up to $250 for each card. These cards are not refundable, and you cannot withdraw money from the card. You can only spend the pre-funded amount online.

You can easily manage all your card, buy, fund and withdraw them from one dashboard.
All of these products have a free anonymity option that means you can choose the name on the card.  

Please let me know what you guys think. If there is enough enthusiasm, I will buy the company and complete the software.

EDIT: We may also add Physical refundable and withdrawable visa cards.  
Love -

This sounds really GREAT on paper as a privacy-conscious person, but man you're pretty much guaranteed to get pursued by the authorities in the end and be forced to accept AML/KYC.

First of thank you for your feedback.
So we are using a 3rd party licensed card provider. And yes, we need to follow AML/KYC laws. However, debit cards/gift cards under 250USD do not fall under KYC/AML laws. So if we 100% verify KYC when a user want to fund or withdraw from their card, we are good to go.

I guess a lot of people would be interested in the second product because no KYC is required. But the card must work with all big services such as Amazon, Aliexpress, eBay, etc.

Coinsbee.com used to offer similar cards which were supplied by Prepaid digital solutions but they were just too bad. I personally used their cards and didn't really have any problems with them, but many people did: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.prepaiddigitalsolutions.com

Also, the prices have to be reasonable. EzzoCard also offers a similar service, but they're just way too expensive.

Thanks for your reply.

Yes, our cards really work like a Debit Card, so you can use it at 99% of services like Amazon, Aliexpress, Ebay etc etc. The service that Coinsbee uses are 3rd party companies from Malta and panama, not that trustworthy.  We are only using EU/US based issuers that are fully licensed, no shady offshore companies.

---

Do more people have a suggestion and/or opinion? Would love to hear them.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Which countries are available for this virtual card? Is no KYC really guaranteed or not?
Is there a need for a collateral here since this is a virtual card and how can you know if the borrower is legit?

Actually the idea is great, I just want to know more how it works since the usual card needs your information so they can track you and if you didn’t pay them, you’ll get the bad records on the whole system.

Hi, thanks for your response.
So to answer your question, this is the flow of the system.

1. User creates an account
2. User needs to fund their $ wallet by using, for example, Crypto(No KYC), PerfectMoney(No KYC), Bank(KYC) or Creditcard(KYC). (Later possible more)
3. User can now buy a preloaded ($25, $50, $100, $150, $200, $250) Virtual Debit cards(No KYC) or they can buy a reloadable/withdrawable card and add funds from their wallet (KYC needed)
(When buying a card you can enter a name and valid address for the card, also can buy as many cards you want with no limit, all card details and transactions are in your dashboard)

4. User can also withdraw from the card if they bought a reloadable/withdrawable card, however also for this option you need to complete KYC.

So all cards are preloaded by the user before he can use them.

Technically, user from all countries can buy a card. (Except from countries on the US/EU sanctions list)

That's it

I remember buying one of those from Coinsbee. They were awful. Tried to ship a physical card. Waited for weeks, nothing from them. Their customer support is almost non existent. They later changed it to virtual card giving an excuse without refunding the "shipping" charge for the card. Well I was fine with that. At least I can use it somewhere now. Nope, the card fails most of the time giving weird reason for transaction failures. Didn't bother contacting support based on past experience. Did manage to eventually use up all the funds on the card, but never again.

Why do you have to KYC for reloadable cards if you can use preloaded card up to $250 without KYC? I mean, as long as users aren't exceeding the $250 threshold on reloadable cards, shouldn't they be able to use it without KYC?

If you are looking for real users you must go with product #1 but the problem is if it needs to be KYC verified then you will only get fewer users to take that offer.

So product #2 would be the best option for non-KYC and I'm sure you will get many people to get your offer.

What I would like to suggest is that why not do the same thing instead products #1 and #2? You can adjust the limitation between KYCed and non-KYC users like how much they can deposit or if you want to get customers from US and EU then you will need to require KYC so that you can get more customers worldwide to buy your VCC.

I like the concept of paywithmoon.com but the only problem is their VCC does not support Amazon anymore if you can provide the same as paywithmoon more customers will buy your card.

I don't understand why is this required in the first place? We are not giving any credit to the person holding the card so in both the cases will have to prefund the card. So instead of funding the card why won't a person directly make purchase from the his wallet itself? He can directly connect the wallet using some metamask or other software to the browser and make payments on online shopping.

Product #2 looks pretty amazing deal for me. No KYC is the thing these days that everyone accepts. When it comes to the crypto cards then it definitely needs to be more anonymous and give added security for the identity. The data integrity issue is gonna be there all the time.

This card is steal deal only for the sake of no KYC step. Moreover prefunding is not bad option. We can also have limits on our spend by using such option and won't just drain ourselves a lot. So this could be better one.

One experience is worth more than a thousand words, there is a demand for these No KYC Virtual Visa Debit Card, and if you want to provide cards to trusted individuals in return for deferred payment, you will get a good evaluation of your project and then you can open the door for demand first.

Add a list of sites that have been tested and confirm that they work.

I don't think #1 would get that much traction as a service? It's not that much different from normal payment methods imo. #2 sounds great though, it's pretty much what most people want for privacy and anonymity needs though wouldn't it shut itself down once crypto is accepted as a general payment for most businesses? Or am I missing something here? Though I guess it's a good startup right now since adoption is still rather minimal. There's also the case of limits (which I understand is required), but some may not actually like it. Still I reckon there'd be users who'd want to use it.

So would that apply to the first product as well? It's been a very long time since I came across a service that offers reloadable virtual cards for all countries, how come you can manage to do that while the rest of the services can't? Wirex, Advcash, etc. all used to offer that but dropped that service at some point, I'm guessing it was due to some regulations.

I think that OP is not 100% aware of what he can do with that company.
I think that OP, based on the questions/discussion here, should find out whether that card company can do all what's he's wishing for. It would be nice if it's possible, but it's better if he knows everything realistically before buying.


I have also one thing in my mind: wouldn't VISA start questioning around if the card company sells 99% anonymous virtual cards? I think that sooner or later will do that and we may easily end up to a new WaveCrest-like problem (https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/05/some-cryptocurrency-backed-cards-dropped-from-visa-network.html). It may worth checking.

Virtual, it is not a relevant and accurate word to use.

All money you transfer via bank system no matter by any tool are just figures on paper, on computer. You can not use the word virtual here because it is inaccurate. Digital or crypto is more accurate just like we can call some as digital currency or cryptocurrency. Please don't call anything as real or virtual currency. It is very misleading term.

You can name your card as crypto debit card or digital debit card or decentralized debit card but please skip the term Virtual debit card.

I think that you've got it wrong.
Virtual Debit Card is a card product where the actual plastic card is not delivered, hence it can be used only for online transactions, you cannot get it with you at the grocery store.
I don't know whether it was VISA, Mastercard, the banks or the FinTech companies who have named it like this but it's an already established name.

I don't think that the Trading Discussion forum is the right place for your topic.
Perhaps you could move this topic to another sub-forum,maybe the "Project Development" category.
I have seen VCC crypto services like Paywithmoon,but I have never tried such service.
AFAIK,Paywithmoon accepts only two deposit options-Coinbase and Lightning wallet deposits.
Creating a crypto VCC service,which accepts a bigger variety of payment methods for depositing money into the VCC would be great.
I'm not sure that it would be possible for you to provide a VCC service without KYC.
You say that somebody wants to sell you this VCC business.What's the price?Is it too expensive?
Anyway,I wish you good luck with your project.

I would guess that there are not that many places that could actually convince the people who are not using it already. So, you need to find a way to get the ones who are already using it, but try to make them switch to yours. That is not going to be easy, even Binance has works on this, which means that in order to convince people you would need to either give them a lot of stuff as a reward, or do millions of dollars in marketing, better yet do them both.

It is not really a business I would go into if I had the money for it, there are other projects that you could participate, I am sure there could be something a bit less niche and a lot more common so that you could get some piece of the pie.

You cannot manage Visa or MasterCard cards for thousands of customers without verifying their identity. This may work initially, but problems will occur after that.
Therefore, if you want to invest in such a company, I strongly advise you to have a legal team familiar with these things, otherwise the fines that may be imposed on you may lead you to close your company.

For customers, fees and other things are not as important as where they can use these cards safely and without fear of having their accounts frozen.

If you hive us some vouch copies then we may help you.

Since there is no need to do kyc, the 2nd product will be interesting. It will be more interesting when its usage limit is more and it can be used on big international e-commerce sites like Amazon, AliExpress, eBay, Apple pay and so on. $250 for each card. This limit is bit low.

That sort of limit is imposed by authorities, hence he simply cannot legally issue a non-KYC card with higher limits.
I've seen it before at Wirex; at some point they've offering such cards and the lifetime total amount for the card was this low; and they were asking for some not-so-nice fee to issue the card (plastic too, I think); and their overall fees added up made those cards not really appealing. Virtual-only should be cheaper from start and that's already a plus.

Yes it's too low with a limit of only $250 per card and with that limit I think many people will think before using it,
apart from the 2nd product there is no need for KYC but with such a limit maybe people are not interested,
It is clear that each product has its own advantages and disadvantages

I would say that anyone who gets a non-refundable like that, could also get a regular card, why not? But, if KYC is the problem, they could keep on buying more of those to remove the problem. The thing is, if you want to buy something that is more expensive than 250 bucks, what do you do? I mean the limit is there, so you can't use it to buy anything that is a bit more expensive.

The type of money those places are making is not as high as you might imagine. The costs of running a business like this, and the costs of each transaction come with a price for them as well, so when you are charging something, you are not charging just for profits, you are also paying for something as a business as well. Hence those rates are not high just so they can profit, they have costs too.

Hello Everybody,

I really appreciate every input so far, really had us good thinking. So I have decided to buy the part of the company and name it CriptoDebit.com.

We will release both products without KYC.
I can also confirm that the reloadable cards can hold up to 4000 +USD, and we will offer preloaded cards up to 2000 USD

The plan is to go live within a week, we need to complete the last API's with our banks, and we need to pass some security test. If everything goes well, we will probably go live on Friday.

Please have a look on the website, love to hear any more feedback and/or ideas. Prices on site may change.

I just checked the website and here are some of my thoughts:

1. You're using that even the reloadable card won't need a KYC verification. How did you manage to do that and what changed?
2. On the site, you're saying that the user can use "any name". That doesn't safe at all, does it? What happens if you're required to ask the user to verify his ID due to some suspicious activity?
3. What's the difference between "reloading a card" and "funding the account"? It says 0$ for the former and 5% for the latter. Which one actually takes place when I want to add more funds to my card?
4. Are these fees real? 15% + USD for withdrawing funds to PayPal, SEPA, or anything else is just too much. Why would anyone use that instead of going to a non-KYC P2P exchange and changing his crypto for way lower fees?
5. The reloadable card is also pretty expensive. 65$ for issuing a virtual card?
6. You said the cards can hold up to 4000 USD. Does that mean you can reload the card as long as the overall balance doesn't exceed that amount?

Hi thanks for the questions,

1. We used a different bank that we had previously. They were more open to the idea, and they are a neobank. So I'm happy!
2. Short answer, we will never ask iD.
3. So before you can purchase a card, you will need to fund your account with crypto or perfect money when funding your account you will need to pay that fee. After that you can use your account balance to load or buy cards.
4. We have that option right now to be able to withdraw from your account balance. However, that's not what we want because it's very time-consuming. So that why those fee are high. We are not an exchange. It it's possible that we will disable that feature in the future.
5. We only make a little bit of money when you purchase a card, so if you buy a reloadable card, you can reload that card for free and don't need a new one until you hit the threshold of 4000 USD. So in order to keep it fair and square the cost of the reloadable cards are 69.00, but keep in mind we are the only service that provides this.
6. You can reload the card up to 4000 USD after that you need to buy a new one.

Best


P.s. Also we will have a referral system where you earn 3USD for every card your referral buys. Also we will give 4 free cards to users on this platform to test cards and leave a option.

Btw, You can already create an account to see the interface. Let me know you think.

Thanks for answering my questions. Well, I just tried to make an account to see the website and I have to say I'm a bit disappointed with the prices of preloaded cards. It's not what I was expecting. Putting the quality of the cards aside, I really think that the prices offered by Coinsbee/PrepaidDigitalSolution were quite reasonable (IIRC something like +2.5%-3.5% of the card's value). Is there any reason why you're providing them for such a high price? I do realize that you're one of the few services that offer these cards, but do you think that people would be willing to pay 20$ extra when they want to buy something that costs 25$? I could be wrong, but I personally don't think there will be much demand for that.

Sounds pretty profitable to me, because I'm currently using my virtual cards more often than my physical cards.

1) The website looks working, has any one purchased any card?

2) How long does this take until you deliver the card?

3) what are the expiration of cards?

4) does the card work internationally?

Do you realize it's a virtual card, so all you can get is the card number, expiration date, cv number and maybe a name on it, right?
In my experience virtual cards are issued basically instantaneously, but yeah..it's a valid question. My point was only to tell that there's no plastic card to be sent to you.

Hi, so what we did is looking at other competitors and lowering the prices where possible. At this moment we are the cheapest service, and we will keep it that way. Also, the funding fees with crypto will go down in a couple of months when we have finished other integrations. Also, we have made cards that you can reload without any additional fees.



1. We are going live tomorrow
2. The cards are virtual and will be delivered instantly to your account
3. Cards are valid for 2 years.
4. The cards work at any merchant worldwide where Visa is accepted.

We are LIVE!!

Check: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391064.msg59618365
 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5391064.msg59618365)

I like the concept about the cards since I am having a lot of trouble to services that doesn't accept cryptocurrency however upon checking your ANN thread it looks like there are some unanswered questions in the thread also about the last message. Is it only for the reloadable cards or including the the pre-loaded cards?

Hi this announcement is only for the reloadable cards, all other cards will be available as usual.

In first instance yes off course the second product is good one for the same reason as everyone is having I.e. no KYC.
However from the above quote, your point number 4 depicts that we can use it anywhere in the worldwide but how? What I mean is, this card is not available in physical form. So whenever I will visit let’s say star bucks how can I make the payment there?

As far as I know we can not really input card details on their pos machine neither they will just scan the details from my phone right?

So have you thought about this issue while paying with it in store?

We changed our cards to Mastercard, because Mastercard can provide 3d secure, with some merchants they require you to use 3D secure to complete your transaction.

You can use our cards at any merchant that accept Mastercard online, however you may be able to add our card to for example the CashApp (NOT VERIFIED) our card are already work on the Curve app for physical transactions.