Bitcoin Forum

Hi Guys can anyone explain this question for me I would really appreciate your answers feed back please.

I made a trade(limit order buy) on an Exchange and now have a 10,000$ long open position on BTC/USD with 5x leverage.

If I close my position at the same price level with a market order after 74 hours, can you tell me the total fees the position would have cost me with all the calculations? assuming Trading fees apply when opening *and* closing a position, on top of rollover fees

HELP PLEASE  ;D ;D ;D ;D

The funding rate dynamically changes so it'd be difficult to predict imo. You've also not said what exchange your using.


If you're after a really rough estimate, I'd say 0.2-0.3% for the opening and closing of positions as well as that amount per day it's open - but this is just what I think I've seen in the past.

Foremost, different exchange offer different trading fee structures. Some even offer rebates for limit type of orders (market makers). You didn't specify the exchange you are using.

Also, funding rates vary from exchange to exchange and contract, and they change every 8 hours. One can not predict the exact value of the upcoming funding rate.
This is how it looks like across different exchanges (https://coinalyze.net/bitcoin/funding-rate/)

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/07/19/ZqfS8.png

I think your question can easily be addressed if you tell on what exchange you opened that position. The fee structure as mentioned by logfiles and jackg differs from different exchanges and afaik it depends as well on what level/tier you are in an specific platform - it varies.

Hi Thank you for reading my post and trying to help me that is a good start the Exchange in question is Kraken they mentioned that Trading fees apply when opening *and* closing a position, on top of rollover fees)

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Hi Thank you for getting back to me and offering that advice and screenshot the Exchange in question is Kraken and they also mentioned (Trading fees apply when opening *and* closing a position, on top of rollover fees)

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Hi Thank you for replying to my question the Exchange I am using in the question is Kraken and they mentioned that Trading fees apply when opening *and* closing a position, on top of rollover fees)

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

I'm not use to the exchange you mentioned but I think if you have an order open or running for 74hours, your swap charge is going to be for 74 hours or three days as that may be the case depending on the exchange. The fees are in percentage to your trade order and usually the fees are rolled over, what you pay for lower hours are not the same with higher duration.

BTC/USD has an opening fee of 0.01% every 4 hours. You shouldn't pay anything when opening or closing a position other than the usual trade fee.

Hi Thank you for your reply can you tell me the total fees the position would have cost me with all the calculations?

When did you open the position, give me the date and exact hour?

Hi It is more a theoretical Question no exact start date and time.

1 days has 24 hours so you get charged 0.01% every 4 hours.
6 * 4 = 24
6 * 0.01% = 0.06% a day

So if you had a 10k$ position you will pay 0.06% a day or 6 dollars a day.

That's Kraken's fee. You also pay a fee depending on the current funding rate a coin has, you can check funding rates here: https://www.coinglass.com/FundingRate

Hi Thank you that is most helpful so it would be 6 dollars a day regardless of the position if it was 1k or 10k ?

No, 1k would be 0.6 or 60 cents. Google 0.06% of X (x is the number) and that's how much you pay a day.

If you're asking how much it costs in total, it's best to ask the exchange as they are more likely to have the correct answer. We can only guess without knowing whether it is right or wrong.

As long as you can make a profit, your profit can be more than $5, I think it is more than enough to cover your trading costs. And that is if you're on limited funds, maybe under $100 or more. I have never calculated the details because as long as I can make a profit and exceed what I expected, it is sufficient and can cover the cost of trading.

According to this article (https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/206161568)

This is how fees for a BTCUSD long position will be charged

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/07/19/Zq3MD.png

Opening a $10,000 long position (I hope this is your total position size when the 5x leverage is taken into account) using limit order (Market maker) will mean you will be charged 0.16% (https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000526126) if your trading volume was zero for the last 30 days

$10,000 * (0.16 / 100) = $16

Since opening a position with this order, you are also going to be charged the opening fee. According to the margin fees as listed for the BTC/USD market shown in the image I shared above, this fee is set at 0.01% and can be calculated for your order as follows:

$10,000 * (0.01 / 100) = $1

This means the total fees for the order (initial trade costs and the costs for opening the position) will be $17

Since this position will be open for some time, a rollover fee of 0.01% is charged every four hours. So for a position open for 74 hours, the rollover fee will be charged (74 / 4) = 18.5 which is 18 times since the order will be closed before the 19th time.

$10,000 * (0.01 / 100) * 18 = $18

So on closing the position after 74 hours at the same price. The trade fees for the closing order which is a market order (Taker) charged at 0.26% will be
$10,000 * (0.26 / 100) = $26

The total fees for opening the position, maintaining the position for 74 hours and closing the position will be ($16 + $1 + $18 + $26) = $61.

Please read. All the information is there online
1. https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000526126
2. https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/201893638
3. https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/206161568

Hi Thank you that is a great detailed answer and makes it very clear for me thank you for taking the time to look at it in depth and answer it for me.  Much appreciated!!!!!

HI Logfiles

I was looking at it again I Know pretty sad of me lol but the 74 Hours every 4 hrs 18.5 times.  How do you arrive at the only 18 times as it will be closed after this.  This is the little bit my small brain is struggling with.  Thanks Again!

The rollover fee is charged Every 4 hours, so If you close a position before the fourth hour strikes, you won't be charged the fee for that upcoming hour.

To make it easier for you, If we reduce the 74 hours to 7hrs.
Assuming you opened a position at 12PM UTC and will close it at 7PM UTC after 7 hours, with a rollover fee being charged every 4 hours. That mean you will be charged (7/4)=1.75 times, which realistically is 1 time.

From 12 PM UTC, after 4 hours, it will be 4PM (This is the rollover fee you will pay) then next rollover fee time will be 8PM way after you closed your position at 7PM. So you will pay only once, even if you closed your position at 7:59PM

The question has been answered already by many people and that should be more than enough for OP, however I would like to point out another fact about this question. It is hidden and not talked openly but the reality is that if you do not know the answer of this question and yet still opened a long position, you have to realize that it is not really a good idea to start. At the end of the day, leverage trading is such a risky business that you should be avoiding being part of it if you can't really do something about it.

If you are really doing all you can, and you are still losing then it is fine but if you do not know the answer to this question and still trade, you may end up with a big loss in the end.

In spot trading this could have been easily answered, as there is a fixed percentage used by all the exchanges for this purpose and you can multiply the same with your position size but here the scenario is different, 1st of all maker fees and taker fees in these markets is different, if you are a market maker you get a big concession on the fees than being a taker. Second variable here is the funding fees of the market, it depends upon the volume in the Market and accordingly I doubt there could be any definite answer to this.

OP is asking, probably because he's undergoing a job preassessment, At least that's what I understood from the other post, so no worries that he many be trading soon unless otherwise.

But the question has already been answered, have you had time to read through the thread?