Bitcoin Forum

Greetings!  This is not my item for sale, but I bought 2 of them and wanted to share with the group and had an idea.  First off, I found a listing from Germany for a large number of Sol Noctis redeemed coins, the Eagle and the Bull:


https://www.ebay.com/itm/393430536544?hash=item5b9a499160:g:pv0AAOSw5yxgrM3a

https://www.ebay.com/itm/363476100319?hash=item54a0dd24df:g:DfoAAOSw~mpgrM9h

The price seems very reasonable compared to the other redeemed/peeled coins, and also from what I can tell on the thread, they seem like a likely untrustworthy coin from a confidence factor.

However, then an idea hit me...  Could we seize this opportunity to make it into a DIY coin?   Not sure if anyone else would be interested, but I would like to order some type of custom hologram (not trying to copy the original) to make it into a DIY coin.  I love the artwork of the original, and I was hoping someone on the forum would have an interest in creating a hologram for it.   I figured I could order some custom hologram stickers from Aliexpress or something, but figured I would share with the group and see if anyone had any ideas/thoughts.

In any case the seller add seems legitimate and I wanted to share.  If anyone wants to help with a hologram design, please post here, I am interested in ordering some for sure.  Again, I don't want to resale/pass it on as a real original, but rather as an improved DIY coin.

Thanks!

A couple of things about these coins. These coins are not redeemed. They are either counterfeit. Or the company sold the rest of their lot. I spoke to top world coins about these and they would neither confirm or deny that they sold them to this guy in Germany. I personally believe they got tired of handling the funding process and sold the rest off. These coins also come with a pretty convincing COA. I was mad about it because it cheapens the brand putting these out there. Even though they dont have the hologram.
   As far as your DYI idea. As long as your not passing off originals its fine. Although your limited by the number this guy in Germany has. It will confuse new people just getting in to hobby. They might think there getting originals. I say if you really want to make a coin. Start with an original idea and design. Good luck

Thanks for the response! I completely agree with all of your comments, although it is interesting, as the description indicates residue from the hologram.

I wanted to clarify a few items, as I was not trying to do this for profit, but rather add some color/usefulness to the couple of coins I bought.

I ordered 1 Bull and 3 Eagles as I absolutely love the design.  I was thinking of making a similar hologram, but distinctively different (again, my intent was not to resell or pass off as a fake).  I do know there are usually a required number when ordering custom holograms, so I wanted to see if anyone else was interested, as I think these look a ton better with the blue hologram than without. And if we did work together on a hologram, I am not trying to make any profit, rather trying to make the couple I ordered look better.

Thanks!

Mark

Ohh, if there is residue it is a peeled original most likely. If you want to do a hologram you can probably search hologram and find a thread. I know there have been several discussion threads regarding producing holograms. You can also find the companies from there. Might be a tough hologram because of the unique shape. But that might be a good place to start.

I get what you are trying to do.

For me vetting one of these coins or any other peeled coin is really nice and a less
expensive way of acquiring a well known Bitcoin numismatic but its incomplete.

By reloading it and applying a new not original hologram you essentially turn it into
a DIY self-funded coin and it will never be anything more and as long as it is advertised
as such at a re-sale its all good IMO.

I also very much wonder what the story on these coins really is. Someone posted about them possibly being fakes and had some sort or proof or info to back up those claims, but I can’t remember who posted or what their exact reasoning to call them fake was. Something to do with the thickness of the 0’s and 1’s I think. My guess is Top World peeled them due to breach issue that arised.

I bought one. Just to see. No hologram residue. Could have been cleaned of course.

These would be cool DIYs I guess but it’s an odd hologram shape, guessing might make them more expensive (maybe), but it also poses challenges for how to place on the private keys as it’s a much smaller more defined space than most coins.  

Thats a good point about the hologram shape and size. Whatever about sourcing
different "off the shelf" circular holograms I recon holograms to fit the segment
on one face would have to be specifically ordered which would mean a large quantity I suspect.

https://www.silvercoinstory.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/btc_2014_sol_noctis_a2.png

On the ebay listings some of the coins do show label/hologram residue
also its clear there is no indentation on the face to insert the private key, a sticky label
has to be used under the hologram.

I was able to order a round hologram for pretty cheap off Aliexpress. I went with a 37mm round one, figured I could cut into 2 pieces and have 2 sets per hologram.

Again, this was just to make the ones I am keeping look better.. not for resale:

https://postimg.cc/DWz6jRPs/dc773f4f


I ordered 100 pieces for about $14 delivered (holographic waterproof).  Let's see how well they turn out, Aliexpress is hit/miss.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003080895490.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802zoBXB4


I will share once the holograms arrive, if anyone wants one, I will give it for free in US. 


Thanks!

I saw those or similar on Aliexpress, there are so much to choose from I got
information overload and didnt take my search further.

The holograms you ordered, are they 'tamper proof' or 'tamper evident'?
I didnt see it on the description of the listing but I might have missed it.

No, the holograms I ordered were the basic ones...  I thought about the tamper proof ones, and inquired; however, they do not offer low volume orders on the tamper proof ones.  The order would be a couple hundred dollars minimum for those, and a very large number.

For me the idea is cosmetic and unless there were a group of us to order nice decals to make it into a DIY coin, it was not worth it.

I think this is a cool idea, and a "reclaimed" DIY Sol Noctis is definitely collectible to me!

I wanted to share I got my coins delivered.  Some look like they have been peeled and have some residue, so I suspect they are the real deal (and come with the certificate of authenticity:

https://i.postimg.cc/Jhzv35TT/IMG20220331164312.jpg

Both sets of coins look great:

https://i.postimg.cc/QNTPqtbr/IMG20220331164452.jpg

One last comment... The Bulls seem to have been peeled, whereas the Eagles look new.  Ironically only the Eagles come with the certificate of Authenticity.

Still a cool deal.

I still think a re-issue of a DIY coin would be cool.    Something similar to the Hybrid Lealana/Casacious coins out there.

I've been following this thread since it was posted and I'm probably going to order a couple. These are some of my favorite designs and I no longer have any in my collection.

I'm sure that I'm not alone when I say thank you for sharing this with us, even if they're redeemed/peeled/never-funded and can't be "confirmed" they look amazing from the pictures you've supplied.

When the holograms arrive I'll take two, please.

Man, I wonder what the story behind these really is.

I wonder if these Eagles are extras they sold off. And after the Buffalo incident, they probably took returns and peeled them? Or maybe these have imperfections of some sort and didn't pass quality control? I never liked how the certificate of authenticity doesn't tie the address of the coin to that specific certificate.

If these were copies, then its a pretty clever way to sell silver rounds at a good premium.

Just weird to see this quantity of these things available if there were only like 2000 supposedly made. This seller has hundreds of these things.

Did anyone who actually bought some of these happen to have originals on hand to compare it to?

They do actually look amazing, they ^{at least the ones pictured}dont look to have
been abused.

I would say the Eagles were cleared stock thats how the certificates are with them

I might consider getting one and a hologram just for the looks of it, dont know
if I would fund it though.

OK, Holograms received today, and they look pretty good.  I added the term about it being a DIY wallet to help differentiate it from the loaded coins.   In any case they look pretty good:

https://i.postimg.cc/56ZdN6x9/IMG20220412190023.jpg (https://postimg.cc/56ZdN6x9)

I notice now that I did not really align the decal all that well (guess I need reading glasses).  They are mostly blue, but have a rainbow look under bring lights (as you can see in some of the pics).   The size is just about perfect, not bad for a quick simple project.

https://i.postimg.cc/750vCw63/IMG20220412190039.jpg (https://postimg.cc/750vCw63)

I have a bunch of holograms, if anyone wants one, PM me, I am not charging any money, just promise me they are not for resale.

Im surprised how easy it was to get a comparable holo. I appreciate your commitment to not making original fakes. The success of physical bitcoin hinges on people's trust in the coins. They look good. Would like to see a more clear picture of the hologram on coin.

You know, you make a great point...  These coins are some of the best looking Bitcoin collectibles out there and I always wanted one.  However, with the discussion of the Bulls potentially being compromised and the Eagles going for a decent markup, I settled on the redeemed coins.  However, the deep blue hologram really improves the aesthetics and is why I did what I did.   I know the 4 coins I have are not going anywhere, as they are going to be part of my permanent collection and as long as BTC doesn't go back to 2015 prices, I won't be desperate for cash.. lol.   That being said, perhaps I should just destroy the extra holograms to ensure they never make it onto coins that make it on eBay, etc.   (I only ordered the minimum quantity to get a custom order done.)

   There will always be scammers out there in crypto and physical. There will always be someone trying to pass off a junk coin as an original. The bigger point is spreading the word about calling out scams. Building a community here thats united in identifying and stopping con artists. We are the renown experts on physical bitcoin.  If we want to see our coins thrive and reach millions we must spread this word and discourage everything that cheapens our industry. As cheesy as that sounds I believe every word. Physical bitcoin to the moon.

I couldn't resist buying one of each (because even scams have a place in my collectrion; I use BFL miners as stand for KIALARA wallets so...) but by putting them sida-a-side with the already known graded Sol Noctis scam coin from this thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3315347.0 the visual differences become obvious...

Although the diamater fits exactly (so the CoA meets the coin which could give some trust in the product's legitimacy) and the coin itself has 31,58 grams (1 oz fine-silver is somewhere around 31,1 grams depending on where you look up) you just have to look at the year of issue... and the whole HOAX gets flushed down the toilette => I would call it a "Wannabe-Fake-Scam-Coin"  ;D
The Mint of Poland of course did no official series of BTC related coins in any year whatsoever (and I would be very angry if I were them, when somebody uses my credibility to mimic scam coins): https://en.mennica.com.pl/coins-and-numismatic-products/catalogue?issue_date=2014%7C2019&type=silver%20coin

https://www.reinka.org/delete/SolNoctis_ScamFake1.jpeg

By putting a "Binary Eagle" and a "Binary Bull" side-a-side it becomes obvious: the same people are minting those coins and although the purchase went absolutely smooth (€35,- per coin in perspective to an official ounce: https://www.muenzeoesterreich.at/produkte/1-unze-feinsilber-999-verpackt => fun fact: I've seen gold being sold out at Austrias mint after Covid hit, a short while after platinum was sold out... but silver coins being sold out is new to me) it brings the ebay seller very close to those who minted them in the first place. They are poorly experimenting with stickers (I wouldn't call this a hologram) and I'm pretty sure they tried to trick or will trick anybody who is going to fall for that fake of an already scam.

https://www.reinka.org/delete/eagle_bull.jpeg

Edit 4 more infos & visual differences (e.g. in symmetry: the graded eagle coin starts with a stroke at the eagle's beak, the coin from ebay does not^^)

https://www.reinka.org/delete/SolNoctis_eaglefakescam.jpeg

More edit and all jokes on me because according to https://wiki.coin.community/Sol_Noctis_Binary_Eagle the coins from ebay are the real-deal-scam-coins and the graded one is already a knockoff which made it to get graded? Did I get it right at least now?

Yes.
The "2016" coin was submitted knowingly as a replica. There is no hologram and they all have the same address if you have seen more than one at a time.
(There is also a 2016 gold-plated version :P )

"They are poorly experimenting with stickers"... the bull has a 2 layer hologram/sticker, they would appear like this when you try to peel, as this happened to me.

Overall, I think these are legit extra coins that are being sold. Highly doubt they ever sold the total mintage of 2000 coins.

“The Binary Eagle was struck by the Mint of Poland, one of the leading manufacturers of coins and collector’s items in the world. The Binary Eagle coin design incorporates complex elements and security features that make it truly unique. Each coin is embellished with a majestic eagle, a symbol of the freedom the bitcoin technology provides.

Bitcoin value was attached to the coin by applying a sticker with bitcoin wallet keys printed on it, and protected by a holographic image. A special technique of E-Beam NanogramTM was applied to create a hologram with maximum protection against counterfeit. Thanks to it, four levels of security features are embossed into the holographic foil with a resolution of 550,000 dpi. A Private Key, which is needed to redeem the face value, is located under the coin’s protective holographic layer. It is automatically printed and is not stored by the manufacturing company, which means only the owner of the Sol Noctis coin has access to it and thus can realize the face”. - https://bitcoinmagazine.com/technical/sol-noctis-coins-as-the-first-collectible-bitcoins-1416243198

I’d like to know what in the design gives it complex elements /security features that make it “truly unique”.

Just as a side note, if you are US based (and possibly elsewhere) you can't use ebay gift cards to buy these.
I bought a giftcard on bitrefill to get one of each and they did not work.

Then I read the terms https://pages.ebay.com/giftcard/terms_conditions.html:

Oops. Guess I have to get that new SSD now instead.

-Dave

Great info, but yes, what's up with that, right? :P

So it looks like @TeeGumes is only doing a bitcoin Bull, but not (yet?) the Eagle here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5290065.0

Anyone have a peeled eagle to send him for further analysis? :P