Bitcoin Forum

Is this too much or not bad? I plan to keep my recovery keys in four separate locations, a brand new flash memory from Huawei, a brand new WD External hard drive, my book with a strong cover and my wardrobe, in my wardrobe you can't easily see it because its always dark in there, I use my torchlight to carve those words in there and its even written on the top inside the wardrobe, I tend to keep it this way for now till I can get a Nano X.

Why backup your seed phrase on flash drive or external hard drive which are not advisable. Get a paper or steel sheet and have the backup writing directly on it which is offline, rather than hard drive or flash drive that can be faulty at any time. Another issue is if you generate the seed phrase offline, there could have been mistakes in a way the seed phrase is no more offline as the poor and non advisable procedure used while storing it on hard drives or memory card.

Best to keep all your backups offline on a steel sheet/s, unless you absolutely 100% know what you're doing with creating airgapped devices. Because if you're just going to turn off the internet in your personal computer and copy the keys to an external hard drive, you're putting your funds at risk.

You tried your best but stainless steel is still the best way to keep your recovery seed, I can't find any better way than this other than buying a hardware wallet.

I do get that those 'Bitcoin steel' sheets are sometimes so expensive that you might as well save up a little more and get a Trezor One. However, you'll also need a backup of that, and a steel washer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5363596.0) backup only costs around $3 if you have the tools (you may be able to borrow them from someone).

Any creative ideas like inside a wardrobe - some people are even stamping on door hinges before screwing them in - and stuff like this, are nice to see.
Simply use your imagination and do keep in mind your risk profile / attacker models.

I could criticize the wardrobe idea for not being fireproof, but if you do have a paper wallet in another location (your book), it will be alright, for instance.
When it comes to flash storage, do know that they don't last forever. I've had USB disks die a few times in the past, just from being old and laying around.

A HDD will be better in this aspect, since if handled with care, it can last a long time. However, don't connect it to a regular PC with internet connection and OS since if it has viruses on it, they can and will infect the HDD and steal your funds in the future when spending them. You will need to set up a Tails Linux USB drive (https://tails.boum.org/), boot it, and do everything you need from there. It has no internet and runs a clean, fresh OS separate from whatever you have on your main drive; Electrum is preinstalled and allows you to create a new wallet & store the backup on the HDD.
When you're done, simply reboot and unplug it.

Then transfer your funds to that new wallet.

Saving the keys digitally even if you are doing everything in offline is not advisable so avoid those two of them and the wardrobe idea may looks good but what happens after 10 or more years? Wood can damaged by insects so it can be completely erased so I would choose to write it on a metal which is 100% rust proof (I am not sure if there is any) but that is the best option.

And what will you do when you get a hardware wallet? I hope you know that you still need a backup, and that such a device will not mean that all your problems are gone.

When it comes to multiple locations, it’s always a smart solution, of course assuming each location is secure. In this regard, it may be wise to avoid backup on any devices, because in case of theft, thieves will steal the HDD or any other storage device rather than a simple piece of paper (unless they know exactly what they are looking for).

If you are not a person who forgets very quickly, I would suggest you to divide your seed into at least two parts and save them separately. There is also an option to further protect your seed with a passphrase, but this is an advanced option that you can find out more about on the manufacturer's website.

The OP explained that he does all of this up to the point where he can buy a wallet. But even with him, it would also be good to take keeping your phrase very seriously. It looks like the OP is somewhat misunderstanding all the bitcoin storage points.
Nevertheless, it can be assumed that he does not have much money in his wallet, and there is time to study everything in more detail so as not to lose much more in the future.

As already said, flash drive and HDD are not advised, they can break too easy, so I won't count that much on them. A piece of laminated paper is already better. Steel would be even better.
But from what you wrote here I have the feeling that all "four separate locations" are in the same house. Maybe I'm wrong, still, I would like to emphasize that for life changing funds you should use geographically different locations. I mean that if your house/area/city is ever devastated by fire, or hurricane, or whatever, you may need a proper backup somewhere else.

Your idea isn't bad but I think you're too paranoid about your keys.
Stainless steel and engraving on it the keys and have a copy like 3-4 pieces and place it on different places is enough to protect your private key.  It's fireproof and waterproof or any disaster will come your private key were still there not unless someone will steal it from you physically.
Your book is also good since it has a strong cover, place your keys on the different pages and spread them, for sure no one will suspect them as your private keys.

Saving your private key offline is enough, just buy hardware wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5282364.0) it has better and safety features that can protect the hardware wallet itself, Trezor and Ledger Nano S as an option are enough too.

IMO, Not bad but try to listen to others about writing it down.

I think it's not that much as well. You're just trying to scatter your keys and as long as you're the only one that can access all of those, I think that's not even a problem.

The unique idea is about the carving and you shouldn't tell this to anyone that you can't trust because that person might go through your closet and has the intention to look and copy for it.

There are better ways, HDD and memory cards get damaged on their own without using them, those things get an expiring date better to use something that cant spoilt on its own..

This fewer gadgets you mentioned can likely get damaged, lost or stolen. You use Torchlight to view your private keys in your wardrobe, what if another tends to look for something else in there when you're not around and then come across it?

So ask yourself from what have just exposited, are your keys really in the safer places?

For me its not. If you have a lot of backup, youll worried now on maybe those things might got stolen from you and even you got a lot of back up, even one got stolen then its not worth it. But in a sense its actually good to have more back up in case you lost one of those. But the probability it will lose or get by someone is much fearful.

I don't even fancy the idea of inscribing it in your wardrobe regardless of OP saying that it is dark in there. It may seem good, but that is too easy...What if someone with an idea of what "Keys" are (male or female friend) decides to one day wear one of your clothes, and makes way to your supposed dark wardrobe with a very bright torchlight?

Even though it is not advisable to save your keys in your email, i still feel if you can break them up into two or three different parts, turn them into a sort of puzzle or poem that you alone understand and save to your mail that you alone have access to, it can be really save there. You also do not need to save it to the mail address you use on our device, to increase safety, you can save to another mail address you normally do not make use of.

You sound as if that hardware wallet you plan to get later will keep its key safe by itself, you should know that you will still need to secure your hardware wallet keys yourself, get steel that you can carve your phrases on that's the perfect solution.

Just make sure that the steel where you carve your seed will not be seen by others. For me, i would likely want to access the seed easy and at the same time hard to spot by someone else. A txt file in my usb is fine as long as I make sure no one finds it so having a password for the USB and the file itself is good enough.

There is always a chance that I may lose the USB though. so having a back up in a paper will be good. One problem to solve is that how is your kid or partner going to find this seed incase you suddenly will be a victim of roadkill?

The problems with having multiple different seed storing methods is that you may end up forgetting they even existed in the first place.  And then the more storage locations there are, the higher the chances are for someone to find them.  Particularly when storing the seed in a wardrobe or in a book.  And before you know, you will one day throw away the book you own forgetting the seed was in there and your seed and Cryptocurrencies are now compromised.

Steel washers.  Turn some washers into a seed storage as previously suggested and bury it in a safe place or in multiple safe places.  Wardrobes, storage devices and books are definitely not the way to go.  Maybe storage devices, only if you REALLY know what you are doing.  But these have a life expectancy you must consider.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

That scene is very possible.

But since it's a wardrobe and personal place for him, I doubt it that he'll just allow someone to get in and snuck there for those clothes. I'm sure that he'll not allow that to happen.

Well, it's like having your own pattern but I still don't think this is a good idea. I've done this before and luckily was able to read those tips about of how not ideal it is.

How can you easily crave words on stainless steel? What tools did you use? Nails? Knife? Or what?.

Anything sharp and hard enough will suffice. You can use a knife if you want, but it 's not as accurate as the sharper tools like a cold chisel. I personally used a scriber (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scriber). Sharp nails are also difficult to work with, so you'll get better results with something with more finesse and control.

my choice is to find copper(real) plate and use d2 hunting knife to do the stuff

There are plenty of online tutorials for keeping private keys but general tips:

 - Stay away from keeping it digital.
 - Avoid keeping multiple copies in public places.
 - Try to store it in a medium that withstands water, temperature, corrosion, and physical shock.

you can try Stonebook, i wrote about them here  -----> Stonebook: Secure Notebook for crypto (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5256408.0)

Or Metal Bitcoin Seed Storage Reviews  ---> https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/

If it makes you feel safe from thieves, just do it and don't tell anyone you don't trust. We all must have the easiest way to save our recovery keys which we are sure no one will ever know. I think it's good that you've thought about it that much. Once you can get your hands on the Nano X, you can think about your next plan to secure all your wallets and put them in a safer place. With so many methods to secure recovery keys, we are sure to come up with a few suitable ones.

The more copies you have the higher the chance that one is found by someone else. Two copies should be sufficient.

This is true, since all the recovery seeds won't be at one location there is a chance that someone will find one of those backups and steal your coins, its a bad idea to have too many copies of your recovery seed, two is sufficient enough.

Storing recovery keys in several places at once, along with the positive side effect of increasing the likelihood that someone else will find your storage. If there are 4 such places, then the level of threat should go off scale.

flash memory - a very unreliable method of storage in view of the fact that it tends to fail unpredictably at the most inopportune moment. Worse, it is impossible to recover data from it.

hard drive - is quite a good option if you don't connect it to an infected PC and store it so as not to expose it to moisture and other atmospheric phenomena that can lead to breakdowns. Also a small bonus is that if hdd still fails, then there are good chances to recover data from it.

my book with a strong cove - do you just keep recovery keys in clear text here? Too reckless. Anyone can see it, and also, paper is also a very unreliable material, vulnerable to external influences. Such as fire, water, solvents, etc.

wardrobe - it's something unique. I will include this in my personal top of the most amazing places to store key ;D. Not sure if this is the best way in the long run.

Let me recommend you an excellent article about one of the ways to store seeds:Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0)). This is one way that should prompt you to consider using metal (plate, washers, kernel - any form) to store keys. Metal is devoid of all the shortcomings of "book with a strong cove" and of course "wardrobe"  ;).  

Well, the purpose of having a backup copy of all your keys, passwords and etc... is just something to help you recover in case you've lost access to it. Your idea is great and I think it was just you who could think about hiding them in the wardrobe. But I think it wasn't necessary, at least having two copies could be enough, written on paper and hard drive.

Thus, if you are using a hard drive or USB memory card just be sure you never use it for other purposes. It should be just a key keeper, nothing else otherwise this might be a reason why you lose control of your account.

a simple notebook would do the trick, of course, you'll have to make sure that the notebook will be in a safe place. if you want, you can make multiple copies of it to make sure that if one is misplaced or destroyed you still have a backup.

About the ways to save the seeds you have already been given good answers, what I want to focus on is to save them in 4 different places. If the funds you have are something like $20 it seems to me exaggerated, it would be more logical to want to save them in so many places if you have something like $2M. Although it seems to me you're closer to the former than the latter if you don't have a Nano X yet. I would think a couple of different sites that are highly secure is fine.

Are your backups really in 4 separate distant locations, or are they all in your house? Because if its the latter, then you will be vulnerable to any disaster that can damage or destroy your house - a fire, flood, tornado, war and so on. You should take a strongly encrypted backup and ask a very trusted friend or family member to store it, or use a bank safebox.

A hardware wallet will not protect you from all possible threats. It's mainly created to mitigate hacks, but even then you should be very careful when you are making transactions with it. Hardware wallet won't protect you from physical attacks, natural disasters and other similar threats.

I think it's good even though I think there are too many places, if my suggestion is you keep it in a book because I practice it and I think it's still safe

I prefer you write on paper. and there is also special paper with special ink that cannot be seen. search on Google. but I myself write on plain paper and keep it in a safe place.

Could this not be dangerous if you decide to still keep your seed phrase in your dark wardrobe for a longer time. In the long time, you may forget that you have written something like this and your close friends who could know your forum username will understand it's you. They could use the opportunity and reck you in the future. Always be conscious of security.
I also think that saving your seed phrase in too many places is not a good idea, it will expose it to danger. One place and one backup place is already ok.

I think you should consider backing up your seed phrase on a steel sheet as they happen to be offline. Two devices out of the four that you’ve mentioned can get damaged after a period of time. Also, even though it is in four locations in your house, you may have family who might find it, it may still not be secure.

You really want to secure your wallet private key, which is very good and am in support of some of the methods you want to use, but I don't really think is advisable you save your private key on a flash even if the flash is brand new, you can't keep the flash forever because the flash can endup being faulty, which you won't have access to the things in the flash anymore, so I think is better you look for a steel and write it on it, which I believe it will never clean off and hide the steel in a secure place  or you can also get a hard over book also.

I've been creating crypto wallet since 2018 and I've never for once messed up with my backup, I just write the whole recovery sees in a book and I guide the book with all my might, its has been 5 years already and my backup is very safe.

And what will change once you finally get your hardware wallet? Do you realize that a hardware wallet is just a means of transacting and not a way to protect your keys from accidental losses? When you take all your backups and import them into a hardware wallet, you usually don't destroy them completely but instead, keep them even more carefully to be able to restore access to your keys should a hardware wallet gets dysfunctional. It is great that you recognized the importance of distributing your keys across different locations, but you have to realize that for this strategy to work properly, these locations should also be distributed geographically, not just locally inside your house.

Also take into account that while each additional copy of your seed minimizes the chances of losing your keys, it simultaneously adds to these chances because a hacker could find one of your copies and steal your crypto. You should find a balance between security and convenience. A hardware wallet itself adds another point of failure to your setup: if physically accessed by a malicious actor, it can theoretically be used to steal your funds without the need for your other backups.

Using too many place is also not advisable. Too many copy means too many chance to expose your privet key to others. Better use a digital device and write it down to a steal plate as the last backup. If you are using a digital devices then make sure you won't connect it with your laptop when the internet connection in on.

Using hardware wallet instead of a digital device like flash drive is more preferable but not everyone can afford it so use the best option for you in your budget.

did you try to scribe smth on steel? copper melting point is 1000C , far more than in average fire

LOL, absolutely you've tried your best but I think writing them on a steel is better, hard drive and flash drive could easily get corrupted and writing them on your wordrobe might seems safe now but anything could take anyone there, you never can tell. Circumstances might take someone there. So stainless Steel is the best.

Keeping it in a different location can be confusing sometimes which skip the mind. It better to place it in a good offline location that is safe ,that can be reach at anytime that it is needed than to just keep it in many locations that you may not have time to secure it well .