Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin ATMs have become one of the booming businesses around the cryptocurrency business environment lately aside from the fact that Bitcoin ATMs make accessibility of Bitcoin easier for users who want to transact in private and to remain anonymous. Bitcoin ATM operators charges higher fees even more than exchanges which is why most digital assets company dive into the thriving new business by operating a Bitcoin ATM kiosk all around with the latest being Kwik trip a convenience store base in Wisconsin in collaboration with coinsource a taxas based cryptocurrency firm to established 800 new Bitcoin ATMs but the 11% charges in fees, it becomes a major turn off to most Bitcoin users but on a general note 800 Bitcoin ATM is a good move to Bitcoin adoption.
Source: https://cryptonews.net/6684027

That is pretty awesome that they are collaborating in that way. That is a lot of locations also. But also that is a pretty high fee as well. Exchanges and other services such as our own offer purchasing online with much lower fees. Bitcoin ATMs dont offer much privacy either as you usually need to provide ID and KYC items as well for purchases.

800 New ATMs - that's huge! It certainly will help to raise awareness about cryptocurrencies in general among the masses. However, 11% fees might be a turn down for many. But if it gives a choice to stay anonymous, some people may be ready to pay that extra premium in exchange of protecting their anonymity.

So this has bith pros and cons. I hope the pros of such huge initiative overpowers the cons and nake the venture profitable in long run.

It would have been an overly great news if it weren't the 11% fees.
That's too much, especially as I expect KYC also become - sooner or later - mandatory for all amounts, hence even more premium as taxes.

11% fee?
Isn't that a bit too much ?
Like I would rather wait, sell my bitcoins online and pay so so so little. Plus why are they so sure that it's going to work? Investing in 800 ATM's ? That's a bold move to be sure but where even are they getting these investors from as well? I do think personally they are not going to have a good business and at the end the blame would be on bitcoins and with this fee they might as well deliver the fiat on a horse. They might also start an ATM card or something for sure to try and dominate the market but I think this won't really be adopted by most people.

Exactly my concerns on Bitcoin ATMs even though most Bitcoin ATMs require KYC it also charges high fees even more than exchanges, apart from the part on their side it is privacy-conscious in this I think their may not require KYC for now but may be soon KYC will become mandatory.

Unless I am wrong, this is not the first time Kwik is attempting to offer Cryptocurrencies.  Anyway.  The high fees were fine back when ATM's offered a certain degree of privacy.  I learned privacy has a cost and I started acknowledging this as a fact long time ago.  But now with all the Know Your Everything laws and orders, it makes no sense to use a KYC enabled ATM over an Exchange.

I assume the users of these ATM's are older people who know just pure and basic things about their Cryptocurrencies like sending and receiving, those who have an emergency or who are fooled into believing KYC enabled ATM's offer more privacy somehow than an Exchange would.  Or, maybe someone who simply does not want their banks to interfere with their Cryptocurrency transaction history.  Other than these types of people, I do not get why someone would see any kind of advantage in using an ATM.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

Total number of Bitcoin ATMs / Tellers in the United States: 33335 (https://coinatmradar.com/country/226/bitcoin-atm-united-states/)
No wonder the total Bitcoin ATMs in the United States have become more prominent and might in this business industry there's a big profit waiting ahead.
Kwik Trip has a large branch in any country in the US and maybe they think that having a business like this is in demand.

Those people who are concerned about their privacy might didn't want these Bitcoin ATMs but for those who want to have Bitcoin very quick or fastest purchasing, maybe this is the best news for them.  So, it has still an advantage in the crypto space.

Man! that's a big help and just to announce it is good news for the crypto industry. I'm not familiar with the charges fees since I haven't used Bitcoin ATM yet since is not available in our city. Maybe it is a reasonable price since they don't want to ruin their first move with unconvincing charge fees. If it is for the convenience of their customers then it would be a huge success for them since many people nowadays have their own share of bitcoins and to give them ATMs at their places is a hugely positive move for KWIK.

Dare I say it; absolute daylight robbery. To be honest, while ATMs might be a good way of increasing adoption, this might actually do more harm than good, since people who are interested in using them, might go to use them, and realise that they charge a massive fee like that, which ultimately leads to them losing interest thinking that Bitcoin is fundamentally like that.

I know they have to recoup the costs of the machines somehow, but 11% is absolutely ridiculous. I'd be interested to know anyone that regularly uses them with those sort of fees. I'm not sure there's any monthly statistics on people using them, i.e just the number of people of independent deposits/withdrawals. With those kinds of fees, the convenience for me doesn't out  weigh those enormous fees.

Why it should have 11% fees? This doesn't sound good, people will think this ATM is the worst way to get Bitcoin. Kwik Trip never thinks about "how to make people interested to use Bitcoin ATM", they only focus to get huge money by installing these ATMs. People may try these ATMs once, but then they will never come back because they are disappointed with the fees. I doubt if these ATMs will attract people if they still keep the fees at 11%. People must prefer to use exchanges, it has a lower fee and can be used anywhere.

that's the drawback of these ATMs. once the user got burned with the fees, they will look for other economical options like using even their local crypto-exchange. you are only using BTC ATM for convenience purposes. some are just curious about it but for regular crypto tx, you won't go with the ATM. so in the long run, i don't think this kind of business will thrive, unless they will make their fees competitive with online options.

I don’t know how popular these are today but I do have a buddy who operates a few of them and he seems to be doing pretty decent with it. I’ve looked in to using bitcoin ATMs before and it was simply too expensive for my liking. Plus there’s pretty strict KYC (know your customer) rules for most of them, which I understand but still think it sucks.

Being charged 11% might sound a bit excessive. So in my opinion for large transactions, it is more effective. If it only sends a few Sats/dollar and we have to cover 11% then it will tend to fall behind.

In addition, I think in the future this will decrease if the interest of ATM users increases and asks for waivers.

If you say it's popular, it's not because there are already some people using it.
And I also don't agree if the burden is that big because most people will also think again to use it with such a heavy load.
And if you start KYC there shouldn't be any strict rules either.

We have commented on this in the Spanish section. The shitcoins.club ATM network has gone from not having KYC for transactions under 1,000 euros to having it for any amount jusf few days ago. If we think about it, someone with 30,000 euros undeclared could go once a day for a month to convert them for 999 euros without paying taxes to the Treasury.

Also many ATMs have had to close in UK because of this issue by the looks of it.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389248.msg59490590#msg59490590

I think the attraction of these ATMs is the non-kyc. If there are going to be kyc for all operations, I don't see much of a future for them, and therefore I'm not very enthusiastic about news like this. I don't know if Kwik Trip have thought about this when making the investment, I don't think so.

When it comes to Coinsource, the ones that are providing the ATMs it's even worse:

https://www.coinsource.net/faqs


So you can't even try to fool it once or twice by buying two beers the guys loitering around the stores or any other trick, you need a full verified account that will track all your purchases.

This can be a piece of good news in the beginning when we see 800 new bitcoin ATMs installed and as a part of adoption this is a good step forward in theory maybe that was because of the demand from people's side to using bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, so the famous companies will expand their bitcoin services to people because of this demand, however, the amount of 11 percent fee is a lot for people especially if they want to use bitcoin ATMs for huge amounts money they should pay too much for the fees. Also the other nad side of bitcoin ATMs in the KYC part with all benefits of bitcoin ATMs still the clients have to provide their ID cards to use the ATMs with is not good for the privacy.

Now I see why someone would pay 11% in fees to use this, while they could completely make every btc transactions and conversions through the smartphone by using an exchange app, paying much less from anywhere in the city. :D

It seems the measure taken by the regulators was needed then, because it was too easy to move dirty money with the help of these machines, lack of personal devices involved on the transactions and disposable addresses. It's still possible to transact up to 1000€ daily, but imagine how fishy it would be to deal with large sums of money in small portions of 1000€ each day... It's not an efficient method for criminals. I suppose this situation would eventually call the attention of the patrols or cameras around at some point.

And if we think about it even further, someone who does not will to pay taxes will continue not to pay taxes even when constrained.  So if we draw a line after all these laws, what happens is you and me are fair towards the Treasury but subjected to intrusive regulations and procedures while those not willing to pay taxes will simply continue to avoid them.

This is nowhere near a good excuse for mandatory KYC.  Impose this for all existing ATM's for any value exchanged and what happens is the 'bad' citizens will just start trading Peer to Peer, maybe for even better fees than ATM's would charge you.  A big win for the 'bad' citizen.  On the other end, you have to now share personal documents with a stranger's machine and have no assurance it will not make you end up being a victim of identity theft or other attacks this could lead to in the future.

No offense.  But I rather say we are putting a lot of pressure and focus on the wrong end of the 'bad citizens'.  €1,000 dirty money is nothing.  Remember we are paying taxes to institutions ran by politicians making a fortune out of dirty money.  Remember there are billions or even trillions moving around in dirty money and nobody does anything about it because of the names, power and positions of these people.

Remember the rich are not paying taxes.  They are avoiding them.  Legally, but they are doing it because they have the regulations ready just for them.  They have the money, the influence and the power.  You can not avoid them legally as a regular citizen.  Their billions are not taxed but you have to pay for your $100.  Makes me wonder how humans ever consider this being fair because if we want the discrepancy between us and the Rich to shrink up, we would probably and logically need to do the opposite.

Then why make it mandatory even for $100?  Even for $10?  Who in their right mind would go to an ATM and exchange $100 dirty money a thousand times to withdraw their dirty $100,000?  And if the ATM has KYC and AML limits, do you think the dude would actually use an ATM over alternatives such as trading locally Peer to Peer knowing the ATM might take a snap of his face every transaction and all of a sudden they have a hundred images of your face dating the same month?  If you impose KYC for all values and the trader moves on to the Peer to Peer exchange, then was KYC even necessary at all?

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Regards,
PrivacyG

That is correct apart from charging higher fees than exchange Bitcoin ATMs most require KYC and that is a big drawback for criminals or anyone who wants privacy this is even a no go area for a corrupt politician who wants to launder money through cryptocurrency, apart from the increase in Bitcoin adoption that Bitcoin ATM brings I don't see any positive impact on the Bitcoin ecosystem and decentralization which includes privacy protection.

Although I think the 11% fees are high I also can see the business behind it.

BATMs are not cheap
Keeping the back end servers up an running has a cost
Hiring people to put in / take out the money has a cost
Since they are still somewhat new customer service people have a cost
And, don't forget PROFIT.....

And this I see as the really annoying part, they probably have to keep the fees equal across the network.

People have gotten used to $4 ATM fees to pull out $40 in cash so this is really not that much worse for smaller transactions.

-Dave

11% fees ?? That’s damn high.
Rather going for an atm, I will make a personal deal or trade with any trusted members to buy BTC.
There are more better P2P options available, and that too in cheap rather than these high priced Bitcoin ATMs.
I don’t know why people still using these ATMs when there are more better options there with almost same anonymous features.

Moreover in order to setup a Bitcoin ATM in a country Bitcoins need to be legalised in those countries first.
For this reason also many countries don’t have any Bitcoins ATMs.
Moreover the ATMs also need to reduce the fees that they are charging, else soon there will be no one who will be using those.

I know stuff in the US is pretty weird sometimes with all those checks and stuff but fees for withdrawing cash from an ATM?
Here in Europe, we've had zero fees for cash withdrawal at the ATM oned by your banks for like a decade and with my card, I can withdraw at any national bank with zero fees up to 10k euros a month.


People don't keep using them, some use the non-KYC ones to avoid taxation and some try an ATM for the first time as a novelty or to dump some cash into bitcoin because they had a good feeling the moment they passed by it. So I feel it's more like a souvenir shop client base than a normal soda vending machine for example.

I've always been conflicted about Bitcoin ATMs.

There are a million negatives that pop into my head, but I'm hoping that's just a bias that I've picked up throughout my life experiences.

• My worry would be that anybody using these ATMs would be a target; either for a robbery on the spot or for a long-term casing and burglary.

I haven't ever personally used a Bitcoin ATM, but I've come across them occasionally and always wonder how secure they are.

• When you use your credit card there is already a risk of credit card skimmers, which will still be a consideration; Any KYC Documents that are required by a Bitcoin ATM would also be subject to the same type of skimming.

Then you add the 11% fees on top of it and any software bugs that might result in you not receiving your coin or it being an unfavorable exchange rate.

The convenience of being able to exchange Bitcoin at an ATM, to me, is outweighed by the inconvenience of not being able to use the Bitcoin to purchase anything at the store the ATM is housed inside.


I'd be willing to bet that if there was more of a customer-base, we would see Bitcoin ATMs transition to a flat fee like most USD ATMs.

I would say that this news can be interpreted from several different aspects, emphasizing that we are talking about the US market which has the largest number of crypto ATMs in the world.

The first thing is that this market obviously has an even greater need for such devices, and that those who install them have an insight into the profitability of such devices. In other words, no one enters into such a venture blindly, the market is looking for such a product, and the whole thing is profitable.

The other thing about fees may be strange to some, because 11% is insane from the perspective of fees that exist at CEX, but again we return to the fact that the US market obviously has no problem with such large fees - otherwise, no one would use crypto ATM and their numbers would decline over time, until they became a rarity.

What should be emphasized in this case is that the company behind this venture owns about 800 privately owned locations, which means that there is no additional cost in terms of accommodation of the devices.

Lot of legalities around them also....https://www.atmmarketplace.com/news/six-arrested-in-connection-with-bitcoin-atm-money-laundering/ 

thats just one article but do some searches and you find a ton similar cases. But usually they are operating illegally or even advertising it to criminals with the extent of not doing their due diligence to subvert illegal transactions.

               Wow, this is amazing! Although I have seen several news about bitcoin ATMs being placed anywhere, it doesn't fail to surprise me and pump me up every time I hear about it happening! Although the fees are quite high and would mostly turn off several crypto enthusiast, it's not that much of a problem anyway if you consider how convenient it would be for the ones who would be using it. And with the risk that the private owners are taking for investing on producing such ATMs, we can just think of the extra fees as helping them out and in a bigger picture; helping hasten the mass adoption of crypto.

If I go to an ATM that is run by my bank there is no fee.

If I go to an ATM that is run by some other banks that my bank has an agreement with there is no fee.

If I go to an ATM that is just sitting in a gas station run by that gas station or by someone that they have an agreement with. My BANK does not charge a fee, but the ATM usually has a fee. Which depending on several things my bank may or may not reimburse me for.

There are some ATM networks that banks have agreements with that will not charge them but will charge people out of the network.

So yeah, a $4 fee if you are only taking on $40 is not unheard of. On the flip side it is a flat fee. Take out $20 will cost you $4 take out $400 still $4.

-Dave

It is mostly the same all around the world with bank ATM's.  It is nowadays rare that you get charged fees for withdrawing.  Even more rare to get taxed for viewing your bank account balance.

I do completely agree the fees you pay are starting to hurt your pocket mostly when you start cashing out more considerable amounts of Fiat.  But I do not know many people who would or could withdraw ten grand in one transaction, if allowed, from an ATM.  I am sure there are more who cash out more negligible amounts.  If ATM's had a 11 percent fee and there was big volume, the 11 percent fee would be considerably higher than the amount necessary for rent, hosting service and whatnot.

What this all tells me is that even with a flat fee, they would not be able to make it because even nowadays cashing out from a Cryptocurrency ATM is a rare event so they would not earn enough to consider it a business.  My opinion.  The more volume there is, the less percentage ATM owners would afford to ask per transaction.  So the best solution is.. maybe that we all start using ATM's more often?

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Regards,
PrivacyG

Its not that is a bit too much, it is way too much. I quit using BATM when the one in my town increased the fee from 4.5 to 6%, so for me 11% fee is unacceptable really, especially at this day and age when you have so many different ways to buy/sell bitcoin.


I do get that running BATMs ain't cheat at all ( I had a lengthy conversation about that with my local operator) but 11% is really pushing it. Unless taxes for running BATM are much higher in the United States compared to Europe, but I always though that your taxes are generally much lower than here.

Some crypto users will try to use these btc ATMs but in the succeeding transactions, they won't use it anymore.
Once they feel the charges are bit too much and they know better options like online transactions, they won't go back to these ATMs.
But they can say, they have tried. I haven't tried an actual BTC ATM as it is not present in my immediate area.
However, if I do have the chance, I will try, just for the sake of experiencing a BTC ATM.
But more than likely, I will still go back to cheaper and more convenient options. Because nowadays, online access is pretty much everywhere.

The guys at Kwik Trip don't know what they are doing. Who the hell would use those Bitcoin ATMs?
1.The fees are so high.
2.Using crypto exchanges is way more convenient, despite all the KYC procedures.
3.Someone could find a way to hack those ATMs and steal the coins of many people.
I have always thought that Bitcoin ATMs are a dead business model, but some companies keep insisting on that model.
Trying to copy the fiat financial system, with all those Bitcoin ATMs and crypto debit cards is a dumb move, if you ask me.
The crypto financial system must be way different than the fiat system, in order to succeed. We simply don't need ATMs and debit cards.
Anyway, let's wait and see if this investment is going to get a positive ROI for Kwik Trip, in which I highly doubt.

Is this will be installed only in Texas?  that is a huge amount of ATM to be installed in single state lol.

But this is one of the best news we are having now because of the opportunity of people using bitcoin here and there .

Hope this will bring best result soon.

If you read the article, you may have noticed that this is a fairly successful company that has been around for over 50 years and has 800 private locations to house crypto ATMs. As I have already written, I do not believe that they are entering into this venture without doing some market research which would really be stupid and unwise.

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Why don't you read the article and find out the answer to the question? Texas is mentioned only in the context of the company that will participate in this project, and ATMs will be set up in 4 states.

I don't really see any thing big coming from this move as I see. the company that owns the Bitcoin atm is out to make profits from transactions that are carried out from the atm since they charge 11% fees which are huge.

I do not know if it will be just Texas, but I know that if you are going to pick just one state to install 800 Bitcoin ATM's, then it is going to be definitely Texas, I would pick maybe NY, California and Florida as alternatives, because those are huge as well but Texas is definitely just way too huge. Have you checked how big it is?

It is actually bigger in land mass than most nations of the world, and California would have been 5th biggest economy of the world if it was a nation. So, I would say that putting all of it in just one state wouldn't be a bad idea if we are talking about the USA, they are a huge nation in land they cover.

Bruh!!! just above Lucius has quoted the line from the article:

They can't install ATMs in Florida or Texas or Ney York because the company has nos stores there!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwik_Trip



It's quite hard to hack an ATM under surveillance, and no real huge cases have happened, plus it will be easy for the customer to show the receipt and the fact that the coins haven't arrived in his wallet. Plus hacking a complex system for a few hundred bucks now and then? No!


They are not trying to copy that system, they are just copying exchanges, like all those shady currency exchanges in some countries, you want to go unnoticed by your bank while buying 1000$, you go to one of them and try to convince the cashier to do it without an ID, which is successful most of the times.
Do you think those kiosks that sell credit codes for your mobile providers are making a fortune? Yet we have like one hundred of them in each city.

With time there is increased adoption of cryptocurrency. A true example for the same is the increase in the number of Bitcoin ATMs getting installed all around. Earlier bitcoin ATMs were getting installed in a specific region. Even now this isn't widely distributed, maybe this is the beginning for the next level of adoption with countries making bitcoin usage legal tender. Even now the increased fee is termed to be a big issue with these ATMs. Hope the fee structure will change.

It will seem difficult to convince some forum members that they should definitely read the article, but that there is no point in reading if they do not try to understand what it is really about.

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A great nation with currently 33 344 crypto ATMs, and it seems to me that California is very well covered in that regard. If we take into account the fact that there are officially 37 472 crypto ATMs worldwide, I would say that the rest of the world is dangerously behind - or they are just smart and buy Bitcoin in some cheaper ways?

https://i.imgur.com/3URC8cf.png
Source (https://coinatmradar.com/country/226/bitcoin-atm-united-states/)

Yeah giving away our privacy is one of the worst experiences where all our transactions can be tracked and not only that you pay high transactions fees of up to 11 % which is insane to me, come to think of it does one even need a Bitcoin ATM what of if our identity get sold out to criminals. This will be a wired experience

To overcome the privacy issues, the platforms can come up with KYC free Bitcoin ATMs. Maybe this will affect the taxation of the government. However in a country where cryptocurrency is regulated doesn't look to be a big deal. Because, even if we go on an exchange for buying bitcoin this is gonna request KYC. Also, a diversified installation needs to be done than getting stagnant over some specific region.

I think it's good to see that more bitcoin ATMs are spreading despite the fees. We, those who have been in the market for years, we understand how high the fee is. But I think we're not their target market and it's most likely the newbies that are amazed and appreciates this new tech since they're still new. Also, when you're near one of them, you have the option if something goes wrong with your exchange and there's surprise maintenance and you can't exchange. It's just like an option though. Honestly, I want to start this type of business since there's still no one to be found here in my area.

Only if it was as simple as saying no to KYC.  KYC is now part of the legislation in some countries or areas, it is not something you have the option to accept or deny.  Also, it is a big deal particularly in the countries where cryptocurrencies ARE regulated.  That is where they tell you if KYC is mandatory.  Regulations.

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Regards,
PrivacyG