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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: MARK21 on June 17, 2022, 06:57:40 PM



Title: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: MARK21 on June 17, 2022, 06:57:40 PM
Quote
El Salvador's Bitcoin reserve has lost half its value. Due to the price drop that the main cryptocurrency has had.
According to data published on his Twitter account by the President of the Republic, Nayib Bukele, 2,301 BTC have been purchased, in which a sum of $103 million would have been spent, at the current exchange rate.


Twitter: https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1536800544894902274?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1536800544894902274%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fcriptotendencia.com%2F2022%2F06%2F17%2Fla-reserva-de-el-salvador-de-bitcoin-pierde-mitad-de-su-valor%2F

However, the best-known cryptocurrency in the market experienced a sharp drop since last Saturday with a loss of 17.14% yesterday compared to the previous day, reaching its lowest level since December 2020.

Quote
IMF insists that El Salvador must eliminate the BTC law
According to what I just investigated, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the entity with which the Bukele government was negotiating an agreement for up to $1,400 million, urged the country to "limit the scope of the Bitcoin Law. Eliminating its status as currency of legal tender" and also expressed "concern" about the issuance of cryptocurrency-backed bonds.

Source: https://latin-american.news/el-salvador-loses-more-than-half-the-value-of-its-reserves-in-bitcoins/


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Upgrade00 on June 17, 2022, 07:11:00 PM
Basically all Bitcoin holders who bought within the past 7 months have lost a huge portion on their investments.
Having an investment register red candles is not bad on its own, it only is, if you cannot hold through that period and would need to panic sell as you invested more than you can afford to lose.

If El Salvador's reserves can absorb the Bitcoin dip comfortably, then it's not much of an issue.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: franky1 on June 17, 2022, 07:47:49 PM
if you have a car.. and.. you are not going to sell it this year..
yet if someone tells you that will only buy it off of you at half price...

have you actually lost your car.. no
have you actually had the car cut in half where it now only has 2 wheels.. no

because.. you are not going to sell it this year..

if you have no intention to sell today. ignore the offers being made today.. they are meaningless to you

you only lose if you sell at a loss.

if there are other people willing to sell their property/asset at a half price discount. its better to buy their property/asset. and then when the offers change in your favour of better sell prices.. then you can get even more profit


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: masulum on June 17, 2022, 08:02:54 PM
Yesterday I discussed this with friends on a local board about this. The current price of BTC will make some people in the El Salvador government say, this is the wrong financial plan. IMF might laugh for Bukele, since they are already warn him to not buy bitcoin. After all, bukele buy at the peak of the bitcoin price. If bitcoin pattern is the same, it may still take a few months to see bitcoin price going reversal. Bukele & el-Salvador must be consistent in storing their bitcoins, because if he sells, for example, at current prices, it means he has wasted money that should have been enough to build infrastructure in his country.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: TheNineClub on June 17, 2022, 08:19:28 PM
I remeber this being a thing when the last drop happened (2017 or something like that), and a lost of investors that got late into that cycle lost on their investments, but those same investors would rank in profits when this last cycle hit an all time high this cycle. So I could just say 'well they need to hodl and then they will be shooting lasers in a couple of years. But it's not that easy or clear cut and there are some undelying issues to all of this. The first one being that BTC and crypto will not and can not repair years and years of bad economic decisions by a government.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: hatshepsut93 on June 17, 2022, 08:45:52 PM
$50 million is really a small sum for any country, even as small as El Salvador. If they had 10% or higher of their foreign currency in Bitcoin, this would be a problem. I'm actually surprised that despite all the Bitcoin maximalism rhetoric, El Salvador didn't go as much all in on Bitcoin as Microstrategy did.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: franky1 on June 17, 2022, 08:47:56 PM
I remeber this being a thing when the last drop happened (2017 or something like that), and a lost of investors that got late into that cycle lost on their investments, but those same investors would rank in profits when this last cycle hit an all time high this cycle.

there is a scientific diagram found in economics, which explains the science and the psychology of bitcoin economics from the perceptions of buyers vs critics
(^sarcasm/satire)
https://i.imgur.com/uItt925.png

now seriously, what i mean to say is..
critics will be proved wrong over time.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Cookdata on June 17, 2022, 09:15:29 PM
IMF, another group of big boys who always want to control a country because of the little support they offer to their members, this is why I like countries who don't buy their idea to be among them.
El Salvador are so confident about their bitcoin, if their portfolio isn't upto 0.5% of their reserve, then I see no reason why IMF has been so adamant they should remove bitcoin as a legal tender, it could be a threat to their
 researve due to it's volatility but where is the effect of 0.5% from 100% and moreover, the btc they underate today as 0.5% may 2x their reserve tomorrow, that's bitcoin for you.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Welsh on June 17, 2022, 10:01:45 PM
If El Salvador's reserves can absorb the Bitcoin dip comfortably, then it's not much of an issue.
Right. Although, if they don't hold through the dip, we might see Bitcoin go on sale even more. Since, its confirmation bias for a lot of people, that if it fails in El Salvador they'll see it as a risky investment, which will never be adoption by serious businesses or countries again. I'm definitely not saying they're right in thinking that, but they will absolutely think it.

I don't mind the price dropping a little further, but I'd rather El Salvador cutting their loses not be the cause of it as it could significantly hurt adoption in the medium term, at least from a legal tender point of view.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Xylber on June 17, 2022, 10:11:26 PM
International Mafia Fund will try to make Bukele look bad, so they can kick him out and bring a puppet as president (somebody who eliminates Bitcoin, put the country under heavy USD debt, and give natural resources for free).


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: D ltr on June 17, 2022, 10:28:44 PM
I don't think it's only Salvadorans who suffer losses if they buy bitcoins at a price of 50k$.
maybe the case of elsavador is different from that of ordinary holders, because btc is in elsavador for reserves if it is sold now it's normal because it's for the needs of their country, basic needs must be met if you don't have any more funds then the reserve funds must come out even if you lose once


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Hispo on June 17, 2022, 11:06:02 PM
I'm actually surprised that despite all the Bitcoin maximalism rhetoric, El Salvador didn't go as much all in on Bitcoin as Microstrategy did.

In my personal opinion is because Mr.Bukele is aware that it is not the same to invest in Bitcoin as a company and as a country. El Salvador invested a modest quantity of money and yet they were target of a FUD campaign against Bitcoin adoption in the country, having organizations like the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund frowning upon such economical choice.

The adversaries of Bitcoin and decentralizaction are already quite annoyed by the fact Bitcoin evolved from a project for internet crypto-punks into an asset held and traded by companies, according to them that was never supposed to happen, Bitcoin was supposed to be a "scam" from the beginning in 2009. You could imagine how shaken they felt then El Salvador took the first step forward from asset to National currency.

It is not the same for the media artillery aiming to a company holding unrealized losses than a country being in the same position. Shareholders expose themselves to risky seeking profit, the people of El Salvador are not shareholders.

So I think it was just Bukele being cautious.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: sheenshane on June 17, 2022, 11:09:38 PM
Quote
El Salvador's Bitcoin reserve has lost half its value. Due to the price drop that the main cryptocurrency has had.
Have they already sold out their coin which that can determine their loss?

It might have a loss maybe millions of dollars supposedly but I think that didn't occur just because they still holding their Bitcoin and didn't yet sell to exchange.  El Salvador has received a lot of criticism now but I think they have a wise decision of having a strong fate on Bitcoin, they never sell what they have bought last year, in the end when Bitcoin will bounce back, they will laugh at those who criticized.

Even though Dania Gonzalez, Deputy of the Republic of El Salvador reveal and said, "Now, it is time to buy more".


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: KennyR on June 17, 2022, 11:42:48 PM
Quote
El Salvador's Bitcoin reserve has lost half its value. Due to the price drop that the main cryptocurrency has had.
Have they already sold out their coin which that can determine their loss?

It might have a loss maybe millions of dollars supposedly but I think that didn't occur just because they still holding their Bitcoin and didn't yet sell to exchange.  El Salvador has received a lot of criticism now but I think they have a wise decision of having a strong fate on Bitcoin, they never sell what they have bought last year, in the end when Bitcoin will bounce back, they will laugh at those who criticized.

Even though Dania Gonzalez, Deputy of the Republic of El Salvador reveal and said, "Now, it is time to buy more".
They haven't sold any of the bitcoin from the reserve, so it isn't a loss for them. Probably the government have got 2301BTC which could've been increased through the process of buying low and selling high. There is a dedicated team within the country allocated with the task of work related to bitcoin. In the short period of time El Salvador have experienced criticism, but it is strong enough to make plans and have got the ability to overcome the situation believing in the growth of bitcoin.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: qwertyup23 on June 17, 2022, 11:55:57 PM
Basically all Bitcoin holders who bought within the past 7 months have lost a huge portion on their investments.
Having an investment register red candles is not bad on its own, it only is, if you cannot hold through that period and would need to panic sell as you invested more than you can afford to lose.

If El Salvador's reserves can absorb the Bitcoin dip comfortably, then it's not much of an issue.

This bearish market can be seen as an opportunity rather as a bane to these investors.

While the prices of BTC dropped significantly over the past few months, this is a perfect time for long-term HODLers to acquire and purchase more during the process. Given the deflationary nature of BTC, its trend would is most likely upwards- meaning its price would increase definitely in the future, though no one knows when. But the fact that its price already reached $60,000 is an indication of its potential to increase again.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: passwordnow on June 18, 2022, 02:19:26 AM
Bukele understands the economics of bitcoin and its nature of it. This is anticipated upon the purchase if a bear market comes and I think he's fully aware of it. He looked funny in the eyes of the others who regard him as doing the wrong thing but it's not just a president's decision to invest in bitcoin. But it probably has gone through a process and with the approval of the other officials before purchasing those bitcoins that they've got. I'm not knowledgeable how their local government goes but there's something like that before he steps on an action.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: kamvreto on June 18, 2022, 02:55:02 AM
Bukele understands the economics of bitcoin and its nature of it. This is anticipated upon the purchase if a bear market comes and I think he's fully aware of it. He looked funny in the eyes of the others who regard him as doing the wrong thing but it's not just a president's decision to invest in bitcoin. But it probably has gone through a process and with the approval of the other officials before purchasing those bitcoins that they've got. I'm not knowledgeable how their local government goes but there's something like that before he steps on an action.

Bukele is a head of state who certainly has an important position, I'm true he will not make his own decisions. Buying bitcoin is the decision of several parties or their financial advisors. Bitcoin crashes like now of course they have funds to buy at lower prices again. Even though the current loss was more than half of what they had bought. But remember that as long as they don't sell El Salvador it's certainly not a loss. it's just a matter of time and when the bulls come I'm sure El Salvador led by Bukele will benefit.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: adzino on June 18, 2022, 04:11:07 AM
So you buy a house, the market crashes, do you go around saying that you lost half of your value? No. Why? Because you haven't sold your house yet to realize the loss. As long as you haven't sold anything, you don't lose anything. Your 1 BTC you are holding is still 1 BTC. You will only lose if you sell anything. So El Salvador hasn't lost anything since they didn't sell anything. The media is just trying to cause a stir and show that El Salvador made a very bad decision. After all, news/articles like those attracts the naysayers.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Kimonoe on June 18, 2022, 04:28:28 AM
Bukele understands the economics of bitcoin and its nature of it. This is anticipated upon the purchase if a bear market comes and I think he's fully aware of it. He looked funny in the eyes of the others who regard him as doing the wrong thing but it's not just a president's decision to invest in bitcoin. But it probably has gone through a process and with the approval of the other officials before purchasing those bitcoins that they've got. I'm not knowledgeable how their local government goes but there's something like that before he steps on an action.

Bukele is a head of state who certainly has an important position, I'm true he will not make his own decisions. Buying bitcoin is the decision of several parties or their financial advisors. Bitcoin crashes like now of course they have funds to buy at lower prices again. Even though the current loss was more than half of what they had bought. But remember that as long as they don't sell El Salvador it's certainly not a loss. it's just a matter of time and when the bulls come I'm sure El Salvador led by Bukele will benefit.
Of course there are economic advisors for the bukele, even supported by other advisors, and of course they have calculated that if the situation does not meet expectations within a certain time, but indeed the bukele is the head of state, then he is the one who is responsible. but this is a country, where various plans will of course be carefully analyzed, and as long as the country can run, or even better than when the crisis occurred, then there is nothing to worry about, because of course they will know bitcoin's behavior better than us personal


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: xSkylarx on June 18, 2022, 04:36:51 AM
As the title says, only the value is their current loss or what we call paper loss. As long as they don't sold anything, their bitcoin amount is still the same. Once the market goes up again, the value will return to the price they bought and will even be greater if bull run will start. I'm sure the president of El Salvador knows the risk of having bitcoin and he is already prepared for that volatility before accumulating for their country.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: darkangel11 on June 18, 2022, 07:50:49 AM
According to what I just investigated, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the entity with which the Bukele government was negotiating an agreement for up to $1,400 million, urged the country to "limit the scope of the Bitcoin Law. Eliminating its status as currency of legal tender" and also expressed "concern" about the issuance of cryptocurrency-backed bonds.

That's because the IMF wants to endorse CBDC and the bankers made it clear at Davos this year. They are ready to launch in the next 3-5 years and that's why they're pushing so much against bitcoin.
The IMF wants to get rid of cash, crash all small insignificant fiat currencies and substitute them with digital versions that they control.
In the long run we will all need both gold and bitcoin because once they stop cash there won't be any anonymous means of payment left. If you decide you don't want crypto you're going to be stuck with barter.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: BitcoinPanther on June 18, 2022, 08:50:41 AM
El Salvador should DCA to minimize their paper loss.  ;D.  If they say that paper losses in Bitcoin investment are only 0.5% of their national budget due to the Bitcoin crash,  they should triple or quadruple buy BTC.  Meaning if they buy BTC @ 50k, they should bring in a 4x fund to buy BTC at the current price of $18.8k and take advantage of the crashing Bitcoin market.  They will cut their paper losses to 50%.  And they only need Bitcoin to recover at least $26k  to break even.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: franky1 on June 18, 2022, 03:57:21 PM
El Salvador should DCA to minimize their paper loss.  ;D.  If they say that paper losses in Bitcoin investment are only 0.5% of their national budget due to the Bitcoin crash,  they should triple or quadruple buy BTC.  Meaning if they buy BTC @ 50k, they should bring in a 4x fund to buy BTC at the current price of $18.8k and take advantage of the crashing Bitcoin market.  They will cut their paper losses to 50%.  And they only need Bitcoin to recover at least $26k  to break even.

DCA is the ploy of just buying regularly no matter the price.. .. the aim is actual not to 'average down' but to get people to buy in regular at a fixed date no matter the price.
this is a ploy usually to get more people to buy in on a certain day to cause regular scheduled pump each month.. orchestrated by those shouting for others to DCA no matter the price..

however ignoring your uncertainty of what DCA is about. what you describe as a risk mitigation as the method to reduce losses is not DCA. but instead what is called "averaging down"

EG 1000btc at $50k = $50m spent

then finding another 4x of fiat ($200m) and buying as many coins at your exampled $18.8k
=10638 coins
=11638 coins for $250m = an averaged down cost per coin of $21,480/btc
..
DCA is not about throwing 4x at a new low yearly low..
its about setting a budget for a year of regular spending whereby you split that budget up into 12 payments one per month at any price that the price might be on the day of the month you choose to make the purchase each month..

DCA is a totally different plan and not as risk mitigating as "averaging down"


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Upgrade00 on June 18, 2022, 04:51:17 PM
Right. Although, if they don't hold through the dip, we might see Bitcoin go on sale even more. Since, its confirmation bias for a lot of people, that if it fails in El Salvador they'll see it as a risky investment, which will never be adoption by serious businesses or countries again. I'm definitely not saying they're right in thinking that, but they will absolutely think it.
I definitely see how that could happen. Many holders are moved by sentiments, reason why we can see huge sell offs once the price turns down leading to more dips. This is of course becoming less of an influence with time and traders are not as moved by the action of certain individuals, but a country cutting ties with Bitcoin would be a big deal.

I don't mind the price dropping a little further, but I'd rather El Salvador cutting their loses not be the cause of it as it could significantly hurt adoption in the medium term, at least from a legal tender point of view.
It could also show others who get in that the market can turn different ways and you should be prepared to handle dips.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: stompix on June 19, 2022, 01:46:13 PM
If El Salvador's reserves can absorb the Bitcoin dip comfortably, then it's not much of an issue.

2020 1 billion in debt issues, 2021 another 1.1 billion, another 450 million at the end of the fiscal year to cover expenses, one of the highest budget deficit ratios, 800 million to be paid next year or default, Bukele begging IMF for loans..
Does it feel like they have any actual reserves?

$50 million is really a small sum for any country, even as small as El Salvador. If they had 10% or higher of their foreign currency in Bitcoin, this would be a problem. I'm actually surprised that despite all the Bitcoin maximalism rhetoric, El Salvador didn't go as much all in on Bitcoin as Microstrategy did.

In order to buy Bitcoin you need money, not just being a maximalist or a fan, and Salvador doesn't have that money, although neither did Microstrategy in their case it was easy to get investors, who would invest in a bitcoin buying scheme in Salvador?
Remember the oversold Bitcoin Volcano bond? That right now is postponed month after month because...reasons?

Just the fact that Bukele isn't posting each day about Bitcoin anymore, the whole mining with cheap volcano energy thing is long gone and forgotten and they don't realize any numbers on how Bitcoin and Chivo are used are clear indicators that they are looking for another Messiah right now!


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Uang_kartal on June 19, 2022, 02:28:12 PM
I think about this.
and it's been answered when the current price continues to experience bearish.elsalvador continuation and other regrets that have sprung up and they are not alone.
we both hope for a correction and continue to fly again, at least it shows a positive market even though it's just a few lines.
indeed, when it comes to the state, the accumulated state budget may even decrease (following the current market price). I am not a citizen of the country, but I feel that the state budget is for development in that country.
this is bitcoin which may be the first time adopted by his country.
As a person, I am very steep in bitcoin. And that is the role of buying and selling in transactions.
some banking/financial institutions ties as mentioned provide supervision and assistance and there may be intervention to restore or simply entertain elsalvador and other countries that adopt bitcoin.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: kryptqnick on June 19, 2022, 05:30:20 PM
If it's just 0.5%, they're being very careful with it, and I'm very glad about it. Clearly, going all-in or even very significantly in with Bitcoin as a country or as a business is too early to do when Bitcoin can still lose so much value over a small period of time.
It does seem to be a great time to buy more, so I hope they will and hodl till the ATH is reached, at least. As for the IMF, I'm not surprised it doesn't like Bitcoin and how El Salvador is using it, but they really should look into Bitcoin instead of being all "concerned" about it.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: eaLiTy on June 19, 2022, 08:27:23 PM
$50 million is really a small sum for any country, even as small as El Salvador. If they had 10% or higher of their foreign currency in Bitcoin, this would be a problem. I'm actually surprised that despite all the Bitcoin maximalism rhetoric, El Salvador didn't go as much all in on Bitcoin as Microstrategy did.
We need to understand that El Salvador invested over $100 million in BTCitcoin and the public demonstration and rallies against them was a global news for a while, he is investing public funds in a highly volatile market and that is problem his opposition have about him with his investment and now the entire valuation is half of that which is not a great sign as he wont be the president till the next rally for misappropriating public funds.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: jostorres on June 19, 2022, 09:54:47 PM
El Salvador should DCA to minimize their paper loss.  ;D.  If they say that paper losses in Bitcoin investment are only 0.5% of their national budget due to the Bitcoin crash,  they should triple or quadruple buy BTC.  Meaning if they buy BTC @ 50k, they should bring in a 4x fund to buy BTC at the current price of $18.8k and take advantage of the crashing Bitcoin market.  They will cut their paper losses to 50%.  And they only need Bitcoin to recover at least $26k  to break even.
I am guessing that it is not that easy for them because they lack the funds for it. They were already using some funds that people said could be used to make the nation better anyway, infrastructure and all. But if they end up spending some more, that is going to challenge them even more and people will be angrier. So, the best case for them right now could be waiting.

When you are dealing with your own money and do DCA then nobody can say anything to you but if you are doing this with others money then those people will ask you where the money went and why it is down and they can bother you. This dude also needs votes for next elections, and ruining your nations treasury to DCA bitcoin is not the way to go.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: franky1 on June 20, 2022, 03:15:03 AM
In order to buy Bitcoin you need money, not just being a maximalist or a fan, and Salvador doesn't have that money, although neither did Microstrategy in their case it was easy to get investors, who would invest in a bitcoin buying scheme in Salvador?
Remember the oversold Bitcoin Volcano bond? That right now is postponed month after month because...reasons?

Just the fact that Bukele isn't posting each day about Bitcoin anymore, the whole mining with cheap volcano energy thing is long gone and forgotten and they don't realize any numbers on how Bitcoin and Chivo are used are clear indicators that they are looking for another Messiah right now!

firstly.. they did not already have a  "volcano power plant" to be mining in 2021-22. they never did, nor ever said they did have one already..
the power plant is something for 2023+ not 2021
secondly the bonds were to be launched sometime between september 2021 and september 2022 so although you might have thought that they were launching months ago. the treasury minister said upto september 2022.. so calm down. its not delayed. the deadline has not passed

thirdly.. the "volcano power plant" you speak of will be built(future tense) from the proceeds of the bonds which will be released in the future. .. you are just unaware how time works and what direction time passes. first comes bonds then comes powerplant. in that order. which means calm down until Q3 of 2022 and end of 2023 before things really start to move physically in el salvador

"bitcoin city" was not on the agenda to be finished and ready for sprint 2022(your assumption that should have ben ready already)

fourthly. the LN experiment of 2021 failed.el salv had loads of problems with it..
.. this is nothing to do with bitcoin faults.. just LN faults. (many cant tell the difference but there is one)

 and this year they moved over to a centralised custodian wallet service for merchant tools and payments between users accounts and exchanging of fiat to crypto. yes they could not quantify the utility of LN due to make flaws of LN. but now they are getting more monitoring ability in the custodial model that is now the back-end of chivo


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Vaskiy on June 20, 2022, 05:07:11 AM
Inspite of bitcoin experiencing strong decline in value there trust upon the market. Just because El Salvador crypto reserve value has declined one can't be come to a conclusion. Even in a recent tweet he mentioned that the growth will continue once after the bear market. Now it is time to stop looking onto the graphs and enjoy life.

At the end El Salvador President Nayib Bukele mentioned Patience is the Key. This is true with cryptocurrency and they are quite confident in bitcoin's progress as you and me.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: davis196 on June 20, 2022, 05:18:43 AM
Bukele has balls of steel. Staying pro-Bitcoin in times like these deserves respect. Not sucking up to the IMF also deserves respect.
You lose only when you sell so all this BS about El Salvador "losing money" is nothing more but FUD and hating on Bitcoin. I've already said that Bitcoin cannot be blamed for the crypto winter/bearish market/price crash, but the BTC haters keep insisting that crypto is scam and crypto is doomed to fail.
I'm not sure for how long Bukele will resist the pressure coming from the International Monetary Fund. El Salvador might be in desperate need for this 1.4 billion USD loan.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: masulum on June 20, 2022, 10:39:42 AM
Inspite of bitcoin experiencing strong decline in value there trust upon the market. Just because El Salvador crypto reserve value has declined one can't be come to a conclusion. Even in a recent tweet he mentioned that the growth will continue once after the bear market. Now it is time to stop looking onto the graphs and enjoy life.

At the end El Salvador President Nayib Bukele mentioned Patience is the Key. This is true with cryptocurrency and they are quite confident in bitcoin's progress as you and me.

The points is, bukele buy Bitcoin at the wrong time. He buys with government money not free money, at a time when BTC is quite expensive, adding BTC assets but not at the deepest price. So, those who are against BTC, they will say Bukele has wasted state money by buying Bitcoin. There is nothing wrong with their assumption, because the country needs money for various needs, but the money reserves have been made to invest in Bitcoin. If (for example) until 2025 the price does not return to ATH, surely Bukele will be blamed for this BTC purchase decision.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Ziskinberg on June 20, 2022, 10:59:15 AM
This is just how the market decline affects our portfolio and I think everyone had suffered the same scenario even those who buy Bitcoin last week, how much more if they bought at $40k, or $50k - I really understand their feeling the worries of some people. But, this is just the value had lost (1BTC = 1BTC), if we just hold and wait for the next Bullrun, we'd lose nothing.

But I guess, El Salvador can manage to hold and I believe they already anticipate this situation before deciding to invest in Bitcoin. I certainly don't have worries about them.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: killerfrost on June 20, 2022, 11:13:22 AM
That is a serious problem for El Salvador, but only a small part of the national wealth invested in BTC is to be feared. Of course, losing will have many ways of looking at it here, but my own personal view on the perception of investing is never taking the risk to make yourself feel better when stuck with a loss. Instead, I believe that the market will grow stronger again when BTC recovers and increases in price in the future. Pay attention to one thing about long-term investment, not following the movement.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Doan9269 on June 24, 2022, 07:53:21 PM
The president who forced bitcoin adoption in his country is now obligated to love and support bitcoin no matter what. Because if he becomes disillusioned with bitcoin, it will have huge consequences for his image.

Bukele never force any adoption on the people about bitcoin, in situations like this it has to be base on the public views then the government arms to vote for or against before the president gives a final say, this is not what someone will just think overnight and implement the next day, this is a government of democracy which involves a leadership potentials amd not an authoritarian rulership in El-Savador while Bukele has nothing to fear about even if bitcoin goes more dip since this is not altcoins and if the worse case be, it can never be to zero or any worse value below the last halving range.

According to Bukele's plan, bitcoin was supposed to attract investments into the country, but in reality, investments into the country did not flow, the expected billion dollars from investments in bitcoin bonds did not succeed.

With or without this, economy in El-Savador is still moving fine and as for its investment on bitcoin bond, this is a glory for some other days story, in which i believe thinhs will change for good later.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Slow death on June 24, 2022, 11:29:24 PM
the president of El Salvador was too hasty in having bought over 40,000$ and having shown that he bought bitcoin, as if he wanted to prove that most people are wrong and that only he is right, but at the end of the day he is wrong . He might not sell the coins he bought and as long as he doesn't sell the coins he bought he won't be at a loss but at the same time he might have to wait many years to see the price of bitcoin be at the same price he bought and that's it. definitely he must not have thought, and then he may have to wait another few years to see profits above 2x. I just hope that people don't receive salaries in bitcoin because at this point they must not be liking how things are going


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Ale88 on June 24, 2022, 11:38:44 PM
$50 million is really a small sum for any country, even as small as El Salvador. If they had 10% or higher of their foreign currency in Bitcoin, this would be a problem. I'm actually surprised that despite all the Bitcoin maximalism rhetoric, El Salvador didn't go as much all in on Bitcoin as Microstrategy did.
I think it's actually closer to $100 mln instead of $50 mln but yeah, it doesn't change your point and I agree with that: for a country that's a very small amount of money, even for a very small one like El Salvador.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: n0ne on June 25, 2022, 02:14:22 AM
$50 million is really a small sum for any country, even as small as El Salvador. If they had 10% or higher of their foreign currency in Bitcoin, this would be a problem. I'm actually surprised that despite all the Bitcoin maximalism rhetoric, El Salvador didn't go as much all in on Bitcoin as Microstrategy did.
I think it's actually closer to $100 mln instead of $50 mln but yeah, it doesn't change your point and I agree with that: for a country that's a very small amount of money, even for a very small one like El Salvador.
El Salvador made the strong decision of making bitcoin legal tender, but in terms of holding El Salvador didn't go much on bitcoin. It slowly started to acquire more and more during the drops, and if El Salvador have adopted bitcoin earlier now the holdings could've been big. As said, for a country the decline of $50m is not a big think. On the other side it has got pressure from World Bank on interest to be paid this July.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: GreatArkansas on June 25, 2022, 02:14:52 AM
For me, their losses are just a cent for sure, very little amount only for them.
For sure they are very careful since they bought Bitcoin, they are aware of it, and they are aware of possibility that  they could lose their investment.
I am waiting for them to buy more.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Pesona1 on June 25, 2022, 08:47:43 AM
For me, their losses are just a cent for sure, very little amount only for them.
For sure they are very careful since they bought Bitcoin, they are aware of it, and they are aware of possibility that  they could lose their investment.
I am waiting for them to buy more.
Indeed El Salvador has lost about 50% of its asset value right now, but are they panicking?
I think not at all and even they are calm because bitcoin strong fundamentals will certainly allow bitcoin prices to rise later, even recently President Nayib emphasized that they consider the current decline to be normal and not have too much impact on the country finances, he even appealed to all bitcoin holders not to panic over the current situation and said that patience is the key to everything.

https://i.ibb.co/xLPbHR6/IMG-20220625-154627.jpg


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: KingsDen on June 25, 2022, 09:51:24 AM

This statement of Bukele is a resounding hope to the people of El Salvador and bitcoin lovers world wide. I said this because I understand the kind of panic that will be going on in El Salvador by now. This is an online community and yet we are feeling the impact here, how about a country that made bitcoin her legal tender.
There will be massive pressure from the citizens, critics and especially IMF who have already misjudged their decision.

Then if El Salvador will not sell, there is pending joy in few years time. But if El Salvador eventually sell at this very crucial point, the panic will send bitcoin more to $5,000. It is surely be safe that they keep holding.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: DerekFlips on June 25, 2022, 12:12:39 PM
Basically all Bitcoin holders who bought within the past 7 months have lost a huge portion on their investments.
Having an investment register red candles is not bad on its own, it only is, if you cannot hold through that period and would need to panic sell as you invested more than you can afford to lose.

If El Salvador's reserves can absorb the Bitcoin dip comfortably, then it's not much of an issue.


Well said bro. Its not lost unless you emotion sell it. Do not get triggered, it is a phase and it will get better fo sure


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: buwaytress on June 25, 2022, 12:20:53 PM
Not the biggest fan of Bukele but he's right. Price is temporary, value is permanent. 1 BTC = 1 BTC and all that, markets spend most of its time under/overestimating the value in terms of USD.

Note also he says it in a way that he doesn't believe the bear market is anywhere near being over. And he's got to be a maximalist, no? Am actually seeing a bit more analyses pieces now that suggest we're close to or at the bottom already, but they all appear to be ignoring the wider economic turmoil we're about to witness globally.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: LogitechMouse on June 25, 2022, 12:24:46 PM
Ok so El Salvador loses half of the value of their Bitcoin reserves. So what now?
Even me also lose a huge percentage of my Bitcoin holdings. Obviously, those who bought Bitcoin before the crash are having a paper loss as of this moment.

There is nothing wrong with having a paper loss, especially when we are talking about Bitcoin here. What's wrong is that, you bought before the crash, and you sold your holdings at the bottom or at least near to it. President Bukele will hold to their Bitcoins for sure. He isn't a dumb investor who will just sell their holdings just because of seeing it dumping. I hope that newbie investors follow what he is doing. Just holding when the market is down and not panicking.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: PrivacyG on June 25, 2022, 12:42:08 PM
So far so good.  It is currently a paper loss for them and I am sure they invested this much knowing already that it may drop at some point.

If someone invests a hundred million without knowing how volatile the market can be during uncertain times, they are dumb no offense.  You can not put that much money into an asset without studying it in advance.  Big stocks have been dumped before and recovered.  Historically speaking, Bitcoin's recovery is always more than impressive.  So long as this has been a responsible investment, who cares about a for-now paper loss?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: BitcoinGirl.Club on June 25, 2022, 03:21:05 PM
$50 million is really a small sum for any country, even as small as El Salvador. If they had 10% or higher of their foreign currency in Bitcoin, this would be a problem. I'm actually surprised that despite all the Bitcoin maximalism rhetoric, El Salvador didn't go as much all in on Bitcoin as Microstrategy did.
The government of El Salvador should be in buying mood now. This could be an opposite news if bitcoin value against dollar was $100k. There are no time for bitcoin network to care for a value against a fiat. It's always 1BTC = 1BTC. Whatever reserve El Salvador has it's still the same if they have not spent it.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: SpenserReed on June 25, 2022, 03:27:43 PM
According to what I just investigated, the International Monetary Fund (IMF), the entity with which the Bukele government was negotiating an agreement for up to $1,400 million, urged the country to "limit the scope of the Bitcoin Law. Eliminating its status as currency of legal tender" and also expressed "concern" about the issuance of cryptocurrency-backed bonds.

So, as we can see, the U.S. doesn't want bitcoin, and other countries won't allow it either...


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Sterbens on June 25, 2022, 04:19:42 PM
El Salvador is not a country without knowledge of the Bitcoin market situation and the risks of volatility. Of course El Salvador has prepared other finances that can be anticipated during a bear market. After all El Salvador financial income is not 100% of Bitcoin. They have other sources of income, one of which is the largest income from the textile industry.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: amishmanish on June 25, 2022, 04:38:59 PM
I dont know why I smell something fishy behind all this. Since bitcoin seems to be a top contender to conventional fiat backed economic system. Many countries have banned crypto, However such countries are  introducing their own alternatives to bitcoin like stable coin.  Is this a well thought out plan by big billionaires and big governments, where they will be ultimately the winners. Hopefully the techies will soon find a way to keep our economy decentralized.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Oneandpure on June 25, 2022, 05:39:24 PM
I don't know specific details about how much bitcoin have and purchase by El Savador president, they have been legal bitcoin and invested trough bitcoin on the top price, does selling bitcoin when reach higher price? If yes El Savador president have get much profit, but do not know if try keep hold bitcoin amd right now almoat drop 50% actually they have much money from bitcoin investment. Bad thing if hold bitcoin made by El Savador president and give bad impact or reputation from their people after seeing bitcoin price drop drastically righ now.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: AakZaki on June 25, 2022, 06:23:29 PM
So far so good.  It is currently a paper loss for them and I am sure they invested this much knowing already that it may drop at some point.

If someone invests a hundred million without knowing how volatile the market can be during uncertain times, they are dumb no offense.  You can not put that much money into an asset without studying it in advance.  Big stocks have been dumped before and recovered.  Historically speaking, Bitcoin's recovery is always more than impressive.  So long as this has been a responsible investment, who cares about a for-now paper loss?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG
Actually there is no loss when el salvador still keeps its bitcoins. The value of bitcoin only decreases and the amount remains the same.
The investment carried out by el salvador is certainly full of responsibility and not just the president's decision. This is a long term investment, of course el salvador will increase the number of bitcoins it has.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: worldtraveller321 on June 25, 2022, 08:19:22 PM
I think this country is still in positive with holding the BTC. Since when should one expect instant success. Holding BTC is a long term solution with the benefits in the coming years.

IF they sold out now, they would lose for sure.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: DapanasFruit on June 26, 2022, 08:54:52 AM


Personally, I would like to see Bitcoin on the level of the real gold which is actually one of the most important reserve asset one country can hold especially in the face of the changing global economy we have right now which in the next few months can be exposing weakly managed economies as we are seeing it unfold in Sri Lanka. But reality bites. As for Bitcoin, I think that we can now rule away any chance for any other central bank to be taking in Bitcoin as a global reserve. Such a risk due to extreme volatility is not something a country can easily handle. Countries are always looking for stability...which Bitcoin could never offer as of the moment. Now, some may disagree with me on this point but I think what we are seeing right now is the best example why no central bank will soon be picking up Bitcoin...many would rather prefer the real gold.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: bussybuddy on June 26, 2022, 09:15:46 AM
I also see the activities of the president of El Salvador in favor of BTC. Since this market has received more interest, many people have invested many assets in it. Basically, from 2022 to the present, we see its decline and the losers who have invested in this phase may be going through the loss phase, but we are just looking at them from the perspective of others. In a time period that we limit, is it convincing as to whether they have failed or not? Who knows when they will sell them? Perhaps I think a long-term investment is here when they see opportunity and potential for future price increases rather than a short-term cycle term. Whether in 10 years' time we repeat this issue, 10 years ago someone bought BTC with pizza or forgot it and looked at the current value.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: sklopan on June 26, 2022, 10:55:23 AM
I also see the activities of the president of El Salvador in favor of BTC. Since this market has received more interest, many people have invested many assets in it. Basically, from 2022 to the present, we see its decline and the losers who have invested in this phase may be going through the loss phase, but we are just looking at them from the perspective of others. In a time period that we limit, is it convincing as to whether they have failed or not? Who knows when they will sell them? Perhaps I think a long-term investment is here when they see opportunity and potential for future price increases rather than a short-term cycle term. Whether in 10 years' time we repeat this issue, 10 years ago someone bought BTC with pizza or forgot it and looked at the current value.
Yes, talking 10 years ahead about such a currency simply does not make sense. Moreover, even for several weeks it is difficult to make any forecast more accurate.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: RealMalatesta on June 27, 2022, 11:36:22 AM
I also see the activities of the president of El Salvador in favor of BTC. Since this market has received more interest, many people have invested many assets in it. Basically, from 2022 to the present, we see its decline and the losers who have invested in this phase may be going through the loss phase, but we are just looking at them from the perspective of others. In a time period that we limit, is it convincing as to whether they have failed or not? Who knows when they will sell them? Perhaps I think a long-term investment is here when they see opportunity and potential for future price increases rather than a short-term cycle term. Whether in 10 years' time we repeat this issue, 10 years ago someone bought BTC with pizza or forgot it and looked at the current value.
I agree that maybe it hasn't been paying off really well for the time being and that could cause him some votes there is no denying that, maybe he will lose next elections if things go like this and maybe if he loses and someone else comes, they will sell off with a loss and get out, I do not know. But I am 100% certain that there is a good amount of people who loved this news because we have seen a president of a nation got into crypto with the money he made from the taxes that citizens paid. This is why I believe that this is such a great situation to be in.

I believe that the best thing we could do right now would be supporting them, and helping people understand that the drop is a short term one and president still did something good for the future of his nation, not gonna work today, but will be beneficial for all El Salvador in the future.


Title: Re: El Salvador loses more than half the value of its reserves in bitcoins
Post by: Mpamaegbu on June 27, 2022, 12:05:50 PM
if you have a car.. and.. you are not going to sell it this year..
yet if someone tells you that will only buy it off of you at half price...

have you actually lost your car.. no
have you actually had the car cut in half where it now only has 2 wheels.. no

because.. you are not going to sell it this year..
I like your analogy. That's true. It's the same way when price bulls and the hodler isn't selling off. In cryptos, no one loses or makes profit until they've sold off.


I don't even think we should cry more than the bereaved. Until El Salvadorians start complaining of their loss in Bitcoin investment, I think the rest of the world should be mute on that. From what I read, the depreciation (not even loss) is infinitesimal and El Salvador isn't perturbed by it at all yet.