Bitcoin Forum

In what look like a bitcoin fee war against coinbase, binance the world's largest cryptocurrency exchange has announced a zero trading fee for users of the exchange in the US. Amid the market fall binance have taken this major as to ease the impact of fees on the smaller day to day traders, a move viewed by many Bitcoin/cryptocurrency analysis as a price war about to start between the two leading US exchanges.
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/06/22/binanceus-launches-zero-fee-bitcoin-trading

be warned when binance shut off withdrawals.. this was because of an issue that they couldnt unlock enough coin from their stablecoin lock to then facilitate real btc withdrawals to real individuall utxo on the bitcoin network(they locked up too much and didnt anticipate cascading reaction causing a the bank run due to the luna fiasco)

now they have a new problem, very unbalanced reserves on the stable coin so they need to offer a way to rebalance it. and thats via 0 fee to entice people to push stable coin balance back in binances favour.
(too much went out of stable coins not enough came back)

they want people to move funds from coinbase and others back to binance so that binance has balance on its side. to then unlock and replenish its reserves.

worry about exchanges that suspend withdrawals and also try to entice more traders into them.. it means they have bad holdings of their own and are aware of the risks if they do nothing..

a good exchange thats well managed doesnt need to do anything.. doesnt need to suspend service or bait customers into using it. they can carry on working day in day out just getting the small sub 1% fee's without inconvenience or sales pitch, happily plodding along doing its thing.

Even if they offered to pay me a fee to use USDT, I still wouldn't touch it.  There are no fees to jump off a bridge either, doesn't mean it's a good idea.

They are trying to entice people, it's a sure sign of how bad things are.
Coinbase has responded with their own counter-attack now, they are removing humongous fees(or newbie tax as I lie to call it) and merging coinbase pro into coinbase itself. They will also be offering around 20 USD for free(read this somewhere on reddit, may not be true).
Interesting times. Let's see who will shed more blood to keep the scraps.

Binance seems to be marketing hard right now to new users.  I think they're trying to gain a ton of market share during this downcycle while other exchanges are having some troubles.  Between this, their social media marketing, and now a deal with Cristiano Ronaldo to bring in soccer fans...  It seems like Binance isn't too worried about their financial position at the moment and is capitalizing on the opportunity of a down market to grow their userbase.  Not a bad plan and should help take some of the sting out of the market as they bring in new entrants.

Odusko, it seems that you have shared a wrong link. It's about stock market and has nothing to do with your topic.
Anyone who is interested in this topic can visit the link below for more information.

Binance.US Launches Zero-Fee Bitcoin Trading (https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/06/22/binanceus-launches-zero-fee-bitcoin-trading/)

i mean this fee war will unlock more customer althought i think is really bad to company. we as user will get more advante of it but


this can also be concerned it become really bad if our money cannot be withdraw

This assumes the exchange wouldn't have any technical problems at all, which is a bit too ambitious. Obviously literally any platform inside and outside exchanges and the cryptocurrency industry as a whole will inevitably have problems.

Thanks, I have corrected it to the right link, my bad.

A half truth is not a truth!

It is applied for Binance US only and it serves as a hook to attract new users to Binance US. Exchanges in general and Binance (not Binance US, I don't know about this branch exchange), charge very expensive (and unacceptable) withdrawal fee.

• Old story. Exchanges get profits from users' withdrawal fees. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5306935.0)
• They said cheap trading fee, zero trading fee but never tell you publicly and loudly about withdrawal fee. Because they want to hide if they can.
• If you want to check and compare withdrawal fee amongst exchanges: https://withdrawalfees.com/. From this third party site, I see withdrawal fee on Binance US for BTC is 0.0004 BTC ~ $8.36, it's not cheap actually

they did not have to pay out huge sums to get ronaldo.. so dont take the ronaldo thing as a suggestion that binance have alot of spare money to throw about

when you are discussing exchanges that meant to be handling billions a day. and they are only throwing a few thousand around on advertising (0.000x%).. DONT take that (0.000x%)spend as a suggestion that they are liquid and cash/coin positive of billions.


you mentioned the profits they make not just from the "maker" "taker" of people doing orders, and the withdrawal fee's ..but you forget they also make profit from the "spread"(gap between the buy market list and the sell market list). this is another secret area where they can make money.

I know. I did not mention about their hidden, shady activities to get profit from wash trading volume, traps to liquidate users.

Because I wanted to bind with things relate to their service fee: trading (taker/ maker), withdrawal fee. I know they have different things to build and maintain their service: security, maintenance, consolidate inputs, process withdrawal, etc. but they must assign income from their service fee for those things. Secretly over charge withdrawal fee and when get accusation, saying "we use it for different things of our service", it's not fair.

they also make hidden profits from arbitraging that spread via other exchange vaiances of the other exchanges spreads
but this requires them having locket asset(fiat/coin) on stable coins on their side of their balance to be able to make them oppertunities.

when they see their exchange go down in price(bottom end of spread widens down). those few milliseconds. they can buy coin cheaper. use the stablecoin reserve on their side to push value to another exchange. sell at the exchanges higher price (before the other exchange follows price down). take the extra fiat via a fiat stablecoin back to theirs and buy more coin.

..
you notice this happens because if exchanges were independant and separate with totally diferent customer base of people. the prices would not sheep follow each other exactly in such a short period of time.
by exchanges sheep following each other quicker than normal users can move between exchanges, shows that arbitrating happens alot

but this scenario, like i said requires them being balanced to have available reserves on their side to perform such activities.
if all the balance is heavy at other exchanges like coinbase then binance cannot use much to push to coinbase.

so thats why they offer zero fee's to users to try getting users bring that balance back to the binance side so binance can use it for its own purposes... and also to unlock some of that reserve out of the stable to be open as real bitcoin network value to use for real custodian balance to honour real btc withdrawals (in times where recently low on btc reserve)

basic history lesson of the last month of events
due to the luna fiasco, and the subsequent bankrun on btc, this caused a depletion of BTC custody of cold/hot wallet real(unlocked) btc.. causing real bitcoin network withdrawal suspensions(where binance was heavy reserve of stable but light reserve of unlocked btc)
they couldnt unlock the stablecoin reserves at the time, to put them as cold/hot wallet coins to honour real btc network withdrawals

the only way out of binance was through stablecoin reserves being pushed away from binance within the stable coins system to other exchanges that are now reserve heavy of stablecoin.. and binance is light on stablecoin reserves

That is a bold step taken by BinanceUS to boost its customer base. Over time the decision taken by BinanceUS will definitely be profitable as the customers will venture into other attractive features on the platform. BinanceUS must have evaluated the gains before taking the decision. That is bold step in the right direction. We hope other trading platforms will emulate BinanceUS to ease the customers trading charges. 

Maybe Binance now charges zero fees for trading but they are earning more than enough from withdrawals and for everything else.
They can't compete with FTX exchange that is charging zero fees on withdrawing Bitcoin, but I think both of them wants everyone to send them their coins and hold them there.
I would never trust Binance or any other centralized exchange for holding coins but only for trading, good example is Coinbase who publicly claims they can confiscate coins from customers to save their own asses.

This is a marketing strategy to pull traders from other exchanges. When traders will trade and withdraw Bitcoin from there, then they will charge a high which is an unrealistic withdrawal fee. It's their business policy. No one is here to lose, they will make money from the withdrawal fee. However, take it positively in this bear market.

To put it mildly, these are far from the best times to attract new users, because new users don't allow the slightest thought to approach bitcoin after the current market drops.

But this is quite possible and, in fact, a good strategy when a market share is captured with weakened competitors.

Binance has enough resources to outlive other exchanges during a bear market and become even more powerful by the next round of the cycle. No matter what they say about the Binance, but their team knows how to run a business.

Usually that's done with bots, I have been part of a few people who did this and we were in a group, that was a fun time in my life. What the system looked like was a ton of money, all in spread out places all in crypto, and it was just a few bots running constantly 7/24 looking out for possibilities. Let's be honest, the math is not that hard, and building is not that hard neither, making it super fast is the hardest part.

The bot calculates the chance to profit, and makes the moves and you earn, which is an easy way of making money. Obviously it didn't last long because the chances were like 10 bucks here 40 bucks there, very very rarely it showed like thousands. Hence it didn't really worth it for us.

Binance is not supposed to have a liquidity problem as long as people continue to use the platform, they have enough sources of indirectly collecting liquidity such as their own blockchains, docks, price manipulation, hidden fees and loans, etc., Binance is becoming more than a platform.

What really worries me is the speed of their burning of cash, especially in advertising campaigns, spending such cash means that there are parties that may embezzle some because the money burns quickly, and it is a policy that led to many problems in many companies, so the occurrence of any liquidity crisis may make all the platform defects appear suddenly

Advertising no trading fee will still be attractive for new users in crypto. Binance has the kind of management that will compete even the solidified competitor. Sure they have the goal to beating coinbase.  ;D


Like Forex brokers they also have this spread. I never really notice this spread when trading on the binance.com but if they do have then we are paying twice, the trading fee and the spread.  0.0004 BTC for withdrawal fee is just too big but I think its the standard now since its close to what other exchanges are subtracting to us.

That's actually interesting because when I get asked which stable coin to use, I admit I always suggest using BUSD as they appear to be a company with a solid cash flow from all kinds of sources. Indeed they are advertising left, right and center and frankly speaking on a pretty impressive level.

I wonder, are numbers in terms of their cash burn rate somewhere available or is that your educated guess? The point you make is an important one because if defects appear suddenly, that might pose a serious threat to their stable coin with an instant, right?

Again, I was of the opinion that they are extremely solid although I admittedly can't provide hard facts bolstering that opinion besides them being the biggest player in the market and the things one can perceive from one's own experience and a couple of other things. 

That is true binance growth have increased rapidly and as the top exchange binance is more or less becoming an crypto financial institutions more than an exchange.
Even with their experience with the Luna crash that led to binance losing huge amount of their investment, burning of cash on advertising new projects or otherwise become pretty unwise at the moment and a lot of binance users may not be free and secured with that.

Of what important is this to the larger binance users since the zero trading zone is only peculiar to US users, so that has limited other traders from different regions and countries and I have not heard how effective this offer has been. Binance is also marketing its platform in that region since other strong exchanges are operating within the US.

Agreed! It appears that much of us has certainly forgotten about OKcoin and their wash trading practices hehehe. Also, this might be something that can be used to attack the exchange. Sam's Alameda Research can for example do wash trading there as a demonstration of CZ's mistake on implementing zero fees. However, this might also be a chance for Binance to show how good their trading engine is.

At this point am curious to know the outcome of this promotion by binance, as am not a member of the free fees zone declared by Binance and haven't read through this thread to see if anyone truly had a first-hand experience of the promotion and how it did work for them. Binance has not made any further official announcement about the promotional offer either it has stopped.

When you posted about this, it was Binance.US, but later Binance.com BTC spot trading pairs are now also zero fee, also BUSD pair for market markers are also zero trading fee.

https://i.imgur.com/GEStk1f.jpg

This image was taken on my Binance app, though not Binance.US.