Bitcoin Forum

Let's talk a little about a real incident that I did with bitcoin in the last 1 month and just processed the payment in the last 7 days. I have an investment of more than 1 bitcoin which is equivalent to $28,500 (estimate) at the time I processed the payment. I bought a plot of land measuring 850M² with a total price of 0.6+ bitcoin or equivalent to IDR 200,000,000 at that time. This didn't happen by chance because I know that the landowner is one of those people who are also bitcoin users. Although bitcoin is not legal tender in my country but I did it without anyone knowing and it is a transaction involving only seller and buyer and so far I have processed this land certificate safely.

I tried to remain undetected making these payments because I knew I would be punished by the government if I announced them. The seller received my bitcoin payment directly to the exchange (from exchange to exchange) and I both signed the receipt that I had prepared as proof of payment written on stamp duty.

This is a real event, I told the seller that he has to convert his bitcoin directly to stablecoin if he doesn't want the money I paid in bitcoins for his land payments to fluctuate. So even though I know bitcoin shouldn't be used as a means of payment in countries that haven't legalized it yet, but it's always a useful option if a buyer and seller reach an agreement.

This is my short story with, so have you ever used bitcoin as a means of payment for the purchase of physical assets like land or anything else?

This story is also the first thread that I created in this forum. It will definitely feel special to me.

Did you also tell the seller to transfer the stablecoins to a non-custodial wallet so that the exchanges cannot close his account on orders from the Indian government, or for whatever other reason?

It is not safe to store that large of a sum of money on exchanges, they could get hacked of their cold storage and they become insolvent and bankrupt after that.

Is bitcoin totally banned in your country? Or it is just an implicit ban?

If it is an implicit ban, like if it is the central bank in your country that ban it or not totally banned, it can still be a good option for paying for land or goods.

But if it is a total banned, I will advice you not to use bitcoin for such option. Convert the bitcoin to fiat and buy with fiat which your government supports.

Know that bitcoin do not have to be a legal tender before you can use it for payment, as long as it is accepted in a country, it can be used. But also a country can have different rules on how to spend bitcoin in a way the government approves.

Exchange can be hacked, exchange can seize your coins, freeze your account etc. To have full control over your coin, use a noncustododial wallet. For large amount of money, use hardware wallet or any other cold storage wallet.

Your story sounds invented to me to be honest, since you don't mention how the transaction was legally recorded. And the fact that it is in a place where Bitcoin is illegal makes it even stranger.

If I buy a house or land, I have to go to the notary and the property registry where it is documented that I acquired such property, for X money and that the form of payment is such.

Lately I have seen several stories of this style that talk about using Bitcoin as a means of payment and it gives me that at least some of them have more to do with trying to get merit than with a description of reality.

You do know that buying land requires documents and stuff right? And that it's not something you can easily tax evade? As if you're only buying buckets of soil lmao.

It only takes one such thread to be successful then suddenly everyone's making them lol.

Converting Bitcoin to a stablecoin always works out great. Just look at Terra UST and how happy their investors are.
Don't you have to pay tax on the land you bought? You need to provide proof of payment so the government can assess if the land was bought/sold at a fair value. How is that going to work if you purchased the land using a payment method that is considered illegal in your country?  

He can still convert it to fiat and withdraw it to his bank account. Rp. 200,000,000 is not much and will be processed as a valid daily withdrawal or approved by our local exchange platform.

You certainly know that bitcoin is no stranger to Indonesia, right? There are several local and international exchanges that I can use as a medium to transfer bitcoins from user to user and if this story is not convincing enough then please ignore this thread. I'm not going to try to convince you, so this is just a fairy tale for a little kid like me.

Please don't think too much about merit, this is not a thread I created to lure any merit from anyone like you say. This idea exists because this is a discussion forum and I thought it would be more appropriate for me to tell this story to anyone who cares here instead of telling it on social media.

If most forum users have the same thoughts as you, then really every thread created by newbies and low ranking users here is something that would be considered only for merit. So think positive and ignore sentiments that you shouldn't respond to.

Of course, the seller has the documents and this sale and purchase transaction is not as complicated as you think. I can still buy land using gold as a means of payment, exchange it for a car or barter for goods equivalent to the value of the land sold. So because I own the bitcoin and the seller accepts the bitcoin then the deal happens. I already have all the necessary documents, so this transaction has been completed.


Bitcoin is not banned in my country as an investment and trade, the government through its laws only prohibits it as a means of payment.

Stable coins have actually misled many people, especially, those algorithmic stable coins that are called  stable coins but they are actually not stable coins because many if them in the past have caused significant loss to investors as the coin thought to be pegged with fiat reduce in price. The last example with such significant loss is UST.

Not only that, also that many of them are centralized, to the extent some can even be freezed on noncustododial wallet. Then why people going for this option when not having full control just like while using fiat. Fiat is far better to be used for holding than stable coins if not holding for long, because if holding for long, fiat will depreciate in price while bitcoin will appreciate.

Edit:
Then do not use it for local purchase, it is very risky.

I know this is a local purchase even though the buyer and seller have agreed to the payment process, but be aware that bitcoin can be converted directly to fiat instead of me sending fiat directly to their bank account. Another reason why I did it was because I was trying to help him get bitcoin off land payments because it didn't require him to deposit money to the exchange anymore to buy and invest in bitcoin.

It seems a bit confusing, but everything went well for you. I have never paid BTC with such assets. Usually countries will have different ways of managing asset transactions by value. And I can't freely trade with BTC either, but usually I will convert it to local fiat for easy payment. But one thing that I want to share about the epidemic period when people were isolated at home and couldn't go out to trade or withdraw money, I used to use it to pay people selling marijuana to be able to buy them. as a joke about how to use it, but it is also very pleasant when more people know about BTC and they can use and understand it better about how to buy and sell it.

No, I will not violate the regulations set by the government. So you shouldn't tell anyone how you use bitcoin as a means of payment in a country that prohibits it as a currency. Especially Indonesia, I emphasize that your actions are violations and you have violated them. So don't do it if you know it's banned because you end up risking a penalty.

There is only one way that is highly recommended if you have bitcoin and want to pay for something in Indonesia, you have to convert it to fiat and make payments safely without dealing with the law. This is the best advice from me, so never deal with the government especially if it is related to money. They can freeze your account and confiscate your assets.

I can tell you how it happens in Russia. For example, if the transaction amount is less than 3 million rubles or $ 56,000, then to register a real estate or land sale transaction, the inspector only asks the buyer about receiving money. The contract says that payment is in cash, but payment in practice can be in bitcoins and gold and euros and dollars.
If the market price of land or real estate is more than $ 56,000, then a hired expert can conclude that the price of real estate is less than $ 56,000.

One problem that could arise from your transaction is that if the seller would go to court and claim you did not pay him for his pice of land you would have a very hard time to proof that you payed him. Even if you could proof it, you would also proof that you would have done something that is illegal in your country also. Still I appreciate that you used bitcoin for its intended purpose, but try to use bitcoin according to your local laws to avoid trouble.

It's great to hear that you were able to used bitcoin as a means of payment for your property however I hope that you didn't at this situation. If crypto transaction is illegal on your country, then are various ways for you to pay the property without getting in trouble, you could've just turned your crypto into fiat then bought the property as documenation and taxes apply on these transactions.

Anyways, as for me, the only transaction where I was able to use bitcoin as a payment was when I was at a mall and there was a Dental Clinic that accepts bitcoin as payment.

Since bitcoin is not legal where you live i think in this case its better to sell your bitcoin and pay with fiat. You're making payments in bitcoin, that's great but when it becomes illegal, it shouldn't be done. Seller converted to stablecoin shortly after, I find buying with bitcoin unnecessary in this case and dangerous for both. Hopefully, the seller has moved all his money out of the centralized exchange by now, because if he is found out, he will be left with nothing.

I will ignore this thread if I think it is convenient.

What reaffirms to me that I am correct is that your response shows that you are bothered by my remarks and still do not address the main issue: how that transaction is legally recorded in the land registry.


Same thing, what you are saying here does not answer the main question. And on the other hand, yes, threads created by newbies or junior members with the intention of earning merit by praising the merit system, by praising the higher-ranked members or praising Bitcoin in some way or another are not uncommon.

I give your story a 99.9% chance of being made up.

Don't get upset OP,  but tbh, your story is not coherent in any way. There is no single relationship between the title of the topic and the body. And there is no conclusion that connects with the introduction.  The title is a question of how to use bitcoin as a means of payment, while the body is explaining how you have already made the payment.
Then if the land seller is a bitcoin personality as you said, why advising him to convert the bitcoin to stable coin? He should be aware of what to do with it.
Well, since your topic said of how you bought land with bitcoin, congratulations for using bitcoin to make a purchase.

Don't trust anyone online, so maybe that's why @Poker Player and some people don't believe your story. But why should you be angry when not everyone agrees with your story? Don't be silly like that, you shouldn't hesitate to write something you think is right and you are free to say anything in this forum ^{[constructive and not against the rules]} whether you want to get merit or not. So don't be offended.

It's not a new story that people have been using bitcoin as a means of payment so far. So I don't think your transaction really surprised me even though you feel special about it. But wait, I think you need to change the title a bit maybe something like: My first time using bitcoin as a means of payment.

OP, I send merit to you not because I believe or not about your story. But it is the best way to appreciate the way you use bitcoin even though some people may not like it. Congratulations on your payment with bitcoin, it would be nice if more people adopted it.

Avoid using a currency without a legal framework when you buy land, mobile - generally, everything that has to be reported and can't be evaded. How did you compose the documents? Didn't you use a notary? You can't just trade a house with bitcoin, anonymously, unofficially, peer-to-peer.

No. Bitcoin is more useful when you want to buy goods and services from the internet.

His story might not be a fabricated one but we can't totally trust people. In my country you don't need to mention how the payment was made before you legally register a landed property. All you need to do is to make the payments in whatever means you and the seller agreed and get a deed or conveyance prepared by a lawyer and the deal would be sealed. The surveyor and lawyer would do all the necessary government registration. The government might trace the payment transactions only if any of the parties is a suspect fraudster or corrupt practice.

Almost all of the popular ones that are being used are centralized except MakerDAO's DAI. DAI is a decentralized Ethereum-based token. You have probably seen mk4's thread on this subject: Most Stablecoins Can Be Frozen, Even in Your Own Wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5204055.0).

https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FJtwIA0d.png&t=638&c=RiXQIzadQAS-Mw

As you can see, DAI is the only one on the list that can't be frozen due to its decentralized nature. 

In my country when we make a legal agreement on property ownership it is a must to add the payment details. This will help the government to tax based on the transaction. To lower the taxation, people used to show low amount on transaction. Rest of the payments will be made apart from the transaction enclosed along with the documentation done for the ownership of the property.

$28500 for a land of 850 sq. mt seems like a little expensive to me since I can buy the same land at $25000.
But again that also depends on the area and surroundings of the land. But it's good that you have used bitcoin to buy the land.
At the same time I hope you have verified the documentation at your end and completed all the formalities thoroughly.
In my country there's a registry amount set by the government on the property price by the government.
It's mandatory to pay that amount and then the rest amount should be handled by the buyer/seller.
So most of them use cash to evade from the tax. Bitcoin is a good alternative provided both the parties understand all the aspects of bitcoin.

Depending on the country you belong to, this story may sound false, but let's say that if you know how transactions are in certain countries, you have a odds story reals, but let's take it as a didactic example.

Material goods such as land in some countries are considered targets for money laundering, consequently, in some way, they are leaving traces of their identity and in the future, if these "clean" bitcoins in this purchase are involved in their trace of txs in any crime they will find you, I assure you.

Use bitcoin anonymously, especially if it is not allowed in your country, but the ideal is to adhere to the rules and laws of each country, there is no other way, especially in high-value transactions.

You come from country without legal adopt bitcoin as transaction payment and what do you think at the future if have problem because you use digital e currency in your transaction. I am excited with your transaction bought plot of land measuring using bitcoin as transaction payment, but what have you did this legal at the future and how about your certificate could be allow by government or not. I think really worry when your transaction using bitcoin depending what ever kinds of transaction sending between exchange to exchange or not but when legal by government and saw about the payment way will make them not change your plot of land measuring bought?

The transaction made by the OP seemed legit to me even though he paid the seller using bitcoin. It is possible that the OP did not mention payment via bitcoin on the proof of payment ^{[transaction receipt]} because he knows that bitcoin is illegal as a means of payment in his country. This allows him and the seller to sign a receipt with the estimated value of the payment in fiat instead of bitcoin which is not legalized by his country's government.

I tried to understand what he wrote, and this is what saved him from breaking the rules of his country's government if I don't misunderstand him.

This is the correct government policy.
But it is possible that in your country there are also restrictions on the amount of real estate purchase, if the transaction is exceeded, the transaction will be controlled, or the data on the transaction will be transferred to the tax authorities. Usually, to avoid these inconveniences, the amount of the sale in the contract is underestimated.

Your story sounds encouraging and patronizing for Bitcoin believers (or it should) but I find something not adding up there in the quoted part. As a firm believer of Bitcoin and in what it has been able to do and achieved for this industry. You said the incident you described actually happened and I'm wondering why you offered to convince the seller to convert the instrument of your transaction with him to a stablecoin. Why didn't you transact in stablecoin in the first place if you feared fluctuation? Both of you carried out the deal via exchanges. So, why didn't it hold in stablecoin? Doing business in Bitcoin and swapping it to any other crypto doesn't help the Bitcoin mass adoption course in my opinion.

This is a good story to show that Bitcoin can be used as a means of payment even if it is prohibited in a country, I am not in favor of breaking the laws of any country but as long as the government does not accept Bitcoin and does not allow people to take advantage of the great features that exist in Bitcoin as a means of payment so people will always resort to these methods, In this case, this is the government’s fault because it wastes on the treasury the taxes that come from these transactions, but this story does not always succeed unless the other party accepts payment in bitcoin and also there is difficulty in registering these transactions in a legal form after the transaction is completed, in any case it remains.” Nice experience" in my opinion, but it does not work in all countries.

You are right; everything that concerns the laws of the CIS countries can be circumvented by providing the value of the property at a slightly lower price. Reading your post, I saw my country.

However, OP, you must not trust people to sell property, i.e., you must not use bitcoin as a payment or purchase if it is strictly prohibited in your country.

Any person can be trained to play the role of a salesperson, and at the time of payment, government agencies may knock on your door.

If, as you write, you can easily cash out bitcoin, why do you need these dances with a tambourine? Buy with fiat and sleep well.

In Europe, when the papers are signed, the payment is also discussed. There are certain minimal prices and you have to declare the transaction value at least at that price.
Now the fun part begins: the values over 10k EUR must be transferred through banks.

While I know that there are estate companies that accept Bitcoin, I don't know how they make the deals. Person to person.. I find it practically impossible, unless the papers are done as donation (which is different than sale and can be easily reverted).

I couldn't have agreed with you more. If anyone has to tell us how they have been promoting Bitcoin in one transaction or the other, I believe some sort of proof should have been provided even if some sensitive info has to be redacted in such info. Also, despite both of them, "Seller and Buyer" have been into Cryptocurrency, yet, the OP has to advise the seller to convert his BTC to a stable coin to avoid price fluctuation  ;D

He has option with payment proof use price bought plot of land measuring after converting with bitcoin values without have use 1 bitcoin as payment proof, I think if country still not allowed using bitcoin as legal currency transaction when get problem he has chance losing plot of land measuring bought. But if both of them are trusted is not worry what ever payment currency kinds use for transaction but at the future we don't know about seller looks trusted or not. But for keeping plot of land measuring better change name and he use his name take care about what happen at the future later.

I can't fully understand what you're saying, because apparently English isn't your mother tongue either. But can you explain what your state government needs if someone has bought a piece of land? Will your government ask how you pay, what currency do you use, and where is the money now?

To take care of the transfer of the name for the land certificate from the seller to the buyer then I think it only takes a few documents. As I know, it includes:

• Old certificate in seller's name ^{[previous owner]}
• Proof of Payment ^{[invoice/receipt]}
• Proof of payment of land tax
• Other documents, depending on your country and country rules.

If all the documents attached are not against the law or violate government rules, then I believe the transaction you are doing is legitimate. This is evidenced by the documents and the consent of both parties. But the problem is: Will your government ask how you pay, what currency do you use, and where is the money now?

In my nation (and I am guessing for OP as well) there is a good chance that you could have a law that says as long as there is an agreement, anything could be used. Like for example you could give 100 cows and get a land, and yes that is barter we used thousands of years ago, but it still works even today.

This is why I believe that we should not be focusing on the part where if it is legal or not, but the part how he used his bitcoin income on something that is tangible. Is it a better idea? I do not know, if he can turn a profit then it is a great idea, but if you ask me I would have stayed in crypto because I do not know much about any other business to be fair.

Maybe there is only a typo on his title. He supposed to say "did not "do". He isn't the one that is asking but he is only telling his experience of using a bitcoin as a means of payment method. About the part where he gave an advice, I think there is nothing wrong with that. He is just concerned to the seller that his money can go down.

You know the situation right now, where the btc volatility is high while there are btc users that are loyal to their coin and won't ever convert them to any other coin. Selling a huge chunk of btc is not easy but it takes a lot courage especially now that we are in bear where you can feel that you are going to pay more btc's than usual.

This is true that people will need to figure out how to use bitcoin without getting in front of the laws, I mean it's possible and it's there, we just need to get two parties to agree to it. I have seen plenty of people selling stuff in my nation, via telegram of course.

There are "second hand market" type of telegram groups for crypto, they sell their playstations, they sell their toys and gadgets and what not, they sell even cars, few try home because that's a bit hardcore, but people try to do a lot with it. I have seen even people do installments, like a debt, but that's scary because if you have to pay a certain amount of coins, and the price of that coin goes up, you are overpaying for it, but it exists.