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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Cryptornd on July 02, 2022, 10:42:34 AM



Title: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Cryptornd on July 02, 2022, 10:42:34 AM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place. That was an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years. What Bitcoin was supposed to be and is now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.
West world uses it as an investment. Poor countries use it as money, as it was designed. The Lightning Network is dealing with the scaling problem BTC was facing mainly since 2016/17 though it processed slowly far today. countries adopt it you can see clearly ( El- salvador )

The lightning network is the solution to the money problem & scalability problem which world is being faced at the moment. Bitcoin is the solution to the money problems not mainly to the inflation problem.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Charles-Tim on July 02, 2022, 10:51:23 AM
Bitcoin was created with a limited supply, it has increasing demand as the adoption is increasing. In the past, this kind of money had been existing, but not in digital form, example are gold, silver, and other valuable substances which increasing demand increases market worth of the product, but just that those are still having unlimited supply unlike bitcoin. So bitcoin in design is an hedge against inflation.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: GreatArkansas on July 02, 2022, 11:00:05 AM
Some people consider Bitcoin like gold, a store of value. That's why they consider it also an inflation hedge, we all know gold *maybe a limited supply that's why the price of Gold over time is increasing.
They consider Bitcoin as digital gold. For investment. Bitcoin has a limited supply and with its block halving event, I can consider it is an inflation hedge.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: sbrys on July 02, 2022, 11:09:07 AM
Maybe it was never intended as an inflation hedge but anything with a fixed supply is hedged against inflation.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: buwaytress on July 02, 2022, 11:37:42 AM
Been a few discussions recently around Bitcoin's (argued) role as an inflation hedge but you really can't deny it's got a great ability to defend against long-term inflation. Sure, right now, we're priced at 2017 levels, but this is what most people would say is Bitcoin at its worst.

As a currency for day-to-day business, it's never a great store of value, which is why crypto businesses have always settled in cash at the end of the day or their books would be destroyed.

But I can't think of a single currency that long term has the same or higher purchasing power (because of inflation).


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Coin_trader on July 02, 2022, 11:48:16 AM
Bitcoin was created with a limited supply, it has increasing demand as the adoption is increasing. In the past, this kind of money had been existing, but not in digital form, example are gold, silver, and other valuable substances which increasing demand increases market worth of the product, but just that those are still having unlimited supply unlike bitcoin. So bitcoin in design is an hedge against inflation.

Technically speaking the answer is yes but based on the actual performance of Bitcoin No because of its volatility. Investors might end up losing rather than hedging if he enter on the bad price like what El Salvador and Microstrategy did. But of course this is a work in progress since we don’t know what will be the price in the future but based on the current price chart, Bitcoin can’t withstand a bad global market since it got dump when fed increase interest rate and other crypto business failure so which means we can’t use it to hedge against inflation.

I believe we conclude this if Bitcoin manage to reach a new all time high the following years which I’m looking forward too.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: mindrust on July 02, 2022, 11:49:47 AM
Bitcoin was created with a limited supply, it has increasing demand as the adoption is increasing. In the past, this kind of money had been existing, but not in digital form, example are gold, silver, and other valuable substances which increasing demand increases market worth of the product, but just that those are still having unlimited supply unlike bitcoin. So bitcoin in design is an hedge against inflation.

Deflation is not the solution to inflation though. Both are bad. Bitcoin is deflationary and it is also bad for us. Why would anybody want to spend bitcoins if they knew they are going to be more valuable tomorrow? People spend their FIAT because they know their FIAT is going to worth less in the future. That's how currencies work.

OP is right, bitcoin's strength lies in its decentralized nature.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 02, 2022, 12:29:45 PM
Blame Bitcoin's continuing journey in its path to price discovery, the hype during the bull market, and partly the speculators for the volatilty, the same speculators who are attacking it with FUD now because the probably lost money. 8)

I admit my mistake for believing it to be a good inflation hedge. It's still a hedge, but less a financial hedge. Because of the underlying nature of Bitcoin that makes it censorship-resistant, and gives its owners sovereignty over their own money, it's a hedge against the cabal and their manipulation over the financial system. Buy the DIP, and HODL.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: DooMAD on July 02, 2022, 12:39:25 PM
Deflation is not the solution to inflation though. Both are bad. Bitcoin is deflationary and it is also bad for us.

I've seen it argued that, at least for now, it isn't strictly considered deflationary because there's still an emission of new money into the system.  However, it will later become deflationary when we reach the point where the rate at which BTC is becoming lost or unspendable outpaces the release of new BTC in the block rewards.  It's going to be almost impossible to determine when that point is reached, though.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: mk4 on July 02, 2022, 01:29:42 PM
It's simply because it's too early for it to become an inflation hedge. There's a potential for bitcoin to be an actual inflation hedge once adoption is high enough to the point that it will be difficult for it to have price spikes in both directions.

People should be saying "bitcoin could potentially be a good inflation hedge in the future" rather than "bitcoin is an inflation hedge". The latter being false, at least as of today.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Poker Player on July 02, 2022, 01:42:06 PM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place.

False.

It is an objective and verifiable fact that Bitcoin has been the best performer in beating inflation since its inception.

That was an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years. What Bitcoin was supposed to be and is now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.

It is not incompatible. Bitcoin is used as a currency and is also an inflation hedge, as happened in the past with gold. What happens is that I doubt it will maintain both characteristics in the long term, as people tend to spend the garbage coins and save the good coins (Gresham's law).


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: CryptoYar on July 02, 2022, 01:44:43 PM
Bitcoin is not just an inflation hedge in fact it is much more than this, let's take a look at what is bitcoin. and what problems it solves.

1) Bitcoin Fixes Bailouts

Bitcoin fixes bailouts by preventing governments from being able to print money to fund bailouts.

2) Bitcoin Fixes Bank Holidays

Bitcoin fixes bank holidays by being ‘open’ 24/7.

3) Bitcoin Fixes Banks

Bitcoin fixes banks by creating market forces which bring back lending and risk-taking discipline.

4) Bitcoin Fixes Central Banking

Bitcoin fixes central banking by providing an escape for people suffering under bad central bank policy.

5) Bitcoin Fixes Civil Asset Forfeiture

Bitcoin fixes civil asset forfeiture by allowing people to carry any amount of value solely in their minds, anywhere, at any time.

6) Bitcoin Fixes Climate Change

Bitcoin fixes climate change by incentivizing development of renewable energy resources on a massive scale.

7) Bitcoin Fixes Colonialism

Bitcoin fixes colonialism by not giving structural advantages to anyone.

8 ) Bitcoin Fixes Deflation

Bitcoin fixes deflation by allowing business cycles to naturally take place.

9) Bitcoin Fixes Ebola

Bitcoin fixes Ebola by incentivizing low time-preference behavior such as investing in long-term research efforts.

10) Bitcoin Fixes Gold

Bitcoin fixes gold by making it digital.

11) Bitcoin Fixes Hubris

Bitcoin fixes hubris by making short-term traders get rekt.

12) Bitcoin Fixes Idol Worship

Bitcoin fixes idol worship by showing that leaders are weak-points.

13) Bitcoin Fixes Inequality

Bitcoin fixes inequality by eliminating the Cantillon Effect which gives the wealthiest people access to new money before everyone else.

14) Bitcoin Fixes Infant Mortality

Bitcoin fixes infant mortality by more efficiently moving capital to under-privileged regions.

15) Bitcoin Fixes Inflation

Bitcoin fixes inflation by making it impossible for anyone to decide to print more money.

16) Bitcoin Fixes Materialism

Bitcoin fixes materialism by causing people to shift their preferences from short-term consumption to long-term saving.

17) Bitcoin Fixes Sexism

Bitcoin fixes sexism by not knowing anyone’s sex or gender.

18) Bitcoin Fixes The Surveillance State

Bitcoin fixes the surveillance state by making both surveillance and the state less effective.

19) Bitcoin Fixes Volatility

Bitcoin fixes volatility by making people used to short-term volatility in order to achieve longer term prosperity.

20) Bitcoin Fixes War

Bitcoin fixes war by making it much more difficult for governments to fund their militaries.

Source (https://bitcoinfixesthis.com/)


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: wxa7115 on July 02, 2022, 06:12:08 PM
Maybe it was never intended as an inflation hedge but anything with a fixed supply is hedged against inflation.
This, maybe being a hedge against inflation was not one of that stated goals of bitcoin, however the characteristics of an asset and what you can do with it will dictate the way people use that asset.

Bitcoin is a currency and yet its use as a currency is currently limited, while its use as a speculation vehicle and as a hedge against inflation are more popular due to its characteristics, so I think trying to argue that bitcoin does not have potential as a hedge against inflation just because it was not actively promoted by Satoshi as such is a mistake.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Leviathan.007 on July 02, 2022, 08:30:47 PM
Being not being an inflation hedge totally depends on the investors, if you consider bitcoin as an asset for long-term investing this can be considered much more than just a hedge against inflation because if you check the market in long term you can clearly understand comparing to many other investment options bitcoin proved itself as one of the best options, but in the other hand, since some people have short term plans they chose bitcoin and this surely cannot be considered as a hedge against inflation for them generally it depends on the bitcoin investors.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: hatshepsut93 on July 02, 2022, 08:37:13 PM
now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.

Bitcoin is not becoming a p2p payment network, it was always one since day one. It is getting more adopted, but the rate of adoption is extremely slow, even in developing countries. That's why the alternative narratives about digital gold, store of value, hedge against inflation have started to emerge.

And I don't really see any big contradictions here, because  Bitcoin can serve different purposes, and it's totally in spirit of Bitcoin that people use it however they like, and not as Satoshi have envisioned.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: franky1 on July 02, 2022, 10:23:05 PM
bitcoin was designed as a inflation hedge right from the start. the whole purpose was to be deflationary..
the halvings were coded in from the first ever version release
the limited supply was too, as that is calculated due to the halving code to reach the near 21m coin cap.

but the visible sign of deflation VALUE from a market view prospective, takes time to be more obvious. because its hidden by the speculative price

in short version
inflation currency starts at VALUE:speculation of 99.9%:0.1% and over years becomes 5%:95%
deflation currency starts at VALUE:speculation of 0.1%:99.9% and over years becomes 95%:5%



EG in the first 4 years 10.5 coins were released at this era it didnt feel like it was "scarce" and the value was low. and speculation was high..
in the following 4 years 5.25m coins were released at this era it started to feel like it was "scarce" and the value was higher. and speculation was high but not extent/ magnitude as previous period

EG
2011 value was a few cent but speculation caused a PRICE peak to $32, which was like a YYYx speculation bubble
2013 value was  ~$50 but speculation caused a PRICE peak to $1,200, which was like a YYx speculation bubble
2017 value was  ~$700 but speculation caused a PRICE peak of $20k which was like a YYx speculation bubble
in 2021 the speculation peak were only Yx of value

the deflationary VALUE is becoming more realised due to the less of a gap of the speculation between VALUE and PRICE (less obsurdly high speculation bubbles as time moves on)
yep there are going to get less shockingly high prices in comparison to VALUE..  while the underlying deflationary value will rise and be more noticeable

it just takes time to see the deflation VALUE in number form on a market because the speculation of PRICE hides it too well at the beginning


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Gyfts on July 02, 2022, 10:50:34 PM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place. That was an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years. What Bitcoin was supposed to be and is now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.

That's not true. Deflation is built into the protocol and the limited supply is where this idea of crypto being an inflation hedge came from. Whether or not an inflation hedge was the inherent goal of Bitcoin isn't really the point. The inherent goal of BTC was a decentralized currency system and with it came the luxury of not having to worry about your purchasing power being siphoned off by 2% minimum a year.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: edgycorner on July 02, 2022, 11:49:26 PM
+1
It has strayed from its objective. But the devs try to keep it on track. As you mentioned, the development of lightning network attests to it.
Whereas the market and economic side of bitcoin can't be controlled to align with its philosophy. It has turned into a memestock.

https://i.imgur.com/vCyoit3.gif


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Kemarit on July 03, 2022, 04:56:10 AM
Well probably it was not designed by per se, but as you can see, it could be a good hedge after all. And it has evolved that you can used it in whichever you want, store of value, hedge against inflation (we've seen in during the pandemic), currency, commodities, and others. And I don't think it's bad, on the contrary, the limited supply alone will tell us how it could be a good when you used it to protect your assets in the long term, although you have to factor it's volatility.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Darker45 on July 03, 2022, 05:50:56 AM
I'd say inflation must have already been in Satoshi's mind when he/she/they designed Bitcoin. One reason of inflation is the indiscriminate injection of large new supplies of money in the fiat circulation. This has contributed to the undervaluation of money. And the decision to print more money resides in a few powerful individuals up there. This fatal flaw in the fiat system has played an integral role in the design of Bitcoin.

This must be the reason why Bitcoin's supply is fixed and hard-coded that tampering it is beyond possibility. So Bitcoin must be partly created in such a way that it avoids inflation. Bitcoin's design is made such in order for it not to share the same fate with the inflationary fiat. So, Bitcoin was in a way created to hedge against inflation.

But I don't think Satoshi made it all from the point of view of an investor. The consumers, the day-to-day spenders, must have been the foremost consideration.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: davis196 on July 03, 2022, 06:01:56 AM
I don't know what Satohi Nakamoto was thinking back in 2008, but I assume that Bitcoin's scarcity and the total 21M limit was supposed to be a "inflation protection" mechanism. Unfortunately, this "inflation protection" mechanism makes the Bitcoin price really volatile.
I agree that the number one purpose of Bitcoin was to be censorship resistant and out of the control from the central banks, governments and corporations. BTC successfully serves this purpose, but the majority of the people don't care about this. They care about making more money and having more food in their fridges. I'm still a little bit skeptical about the Lightning Network and it's ability to solve the scaling problem.
I also don't agree that the underdeveloped countries use BTC as money. It seems like generalization to me. People in the underdeveloped countries can also use BTC as an investment.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: n0ne on July 03, 2022, 06:07:38 AM
I don't know what Satohi Nakamoto was thinking back in 2008, but I assume that Bitcoin's scarcity and the total 21M limit was supposed to be a "inflation protection" mechanism. Unfortunately, this "inflation protection" mechanism makes the Bitcoin price really volatile.
I agree that the number one purpose of Bitcoin was to be censorship resistant and out of the control from the central banks, governments and corporations. BTC successfully serves this purpose, but the majority of the people don't care about this. They care about making more money and having more food in their fridges. I'm still a little bit skeptical about the Lightning Network and it's ability to solve the scaling problem.
I also don't agree that the underdeveloped countries use BTC as money. It seems like generalization to me. People in the underdeveloped countries can also use BTC as an investment.
The limited supply make it an inflation protection. This inflation protection isn't functioning in the way it has been developed, but it favours the big Whales. The big bag holders have got the ability to manipulate the market. This doesn't serve to act against inflation. When we talk of gold and other valuable metals. This kind of manipulation isn't possible and that's the reason why people find more secure with gold than bitcoin.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: amishmanish on July 03, 2022, 07:00:08 AM
I think bitcoin is not a true hedge against inflation as  its will fluctuate against market falls and rises, but it provides a good mean of money transfer, and being in limited supply, many institutional investors are investing in it, and with increasing adoption of crypto and digital currency, we will see that it will become a hedge for funds in future, if not against infalation


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Abiky on July 04, 2022, 01:15:12 AM
It's simply because it's too early for it to become an inflation hedge. There's a potential for bitcoin to be an actual inflation hedge once adoption is high enough to the point that it will be difficult for it to have price spikes in both directions.

People should be saying "bitcoin could potentially be a good inflation hedge in the future" rather than "bitcoin is an inflation hedge". The latter being false, at least as of today.

Couldn't agree more with you, mate. Bitcoin is still in its infancy. Even though it has come a long way since its inception 13 years ago, there are still a lot of things that need to be improved. The reason why Bitcoin can't act as an inflation hedge now is because the world is still stuck with the Fiat standard. The market is determining Bitcoin's price in Fiat terms. In a pure Bitcoin world (hyperbitcoinization), people would use Bitcoin as the standard unit of account. This means valuing goods and services in BTC (not Fiat) terms.

By itself, Bitcoin is already a stable cryptocurrency. 1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin no matter what. I'm hoping the day will come when Fiat collapses in its entirety, paving the way for Bitcoin to take over the world. If we were used to the Gold standard before, how hard can it be to switch to the Bitcoin standard? Just my thoughts ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Fundamentals Of on July 04, 2022, 02:03:38 AM
Bitcoin might not have been intentionally made as a hedge against inflation but that idea has slowly taken shape because it has limited supply. And if we compare the available currencies we have, we only have fiat and Bitcoin. And since fiat is unlimited and has been fast losing its purchasing power, it is natural for people to run for refuge into Bitcoin and feel assured that their Bitcoin money is not going to be losing purchasing power over time because there can't be anyone who can add more supply of it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 04, 2022, 11:33:01 AM
bitcoin was designed as a inflation hedge right from the start. the whole purpose was to be deflationary..
the halvings were coded in from the first ever version release
the limited supply was too, as that is calculated due to the halving code to reach the near 21m coin cap
.


That's from a view point that 1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin, but from the viewpoint of the people who value Bitcoin in fiat, they've seen it directly that the value of their coins, in fiat, crash from ATH. I believe we should change our thinking on what kind of "hedge" is Bitcoin. It's not a financial hedge, it's a hedge against the decision-making of a cabal of non-elective individuals behind the Federal Reserve.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: DooMAD on July 04, 2022, 12:14:33 PM
Bitcoin is still in its infancy.

I feel like we have to re-frame that argument a little.  Critics (https://blog.mollywhite.net/its-not-still-the-early-days/) are using it to belittle the community.  They say things like "No one would describe 'Windows 7' as still being in its infancy".  They kinda have a point.  Bitcoin's technology is a battle-hardened, grizzled warrior by this point, although it still receives frequent upgrades.  It's no longer a nascent project, and by describing it as such, we're selling it short.  

Perhaps we need to say something along the lines of "Bitcoin acceptance is still maturing, but the technology is robust"?


//EDIT:  Actually, this is better suited to a new topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5405129) to avoid derailing this one.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: BlackHatCoiner on July 04, 2022, 01:57:51 PM
Bitcoin was supposed to be a P2P electronic cash system, because it was impossible to send cash across a communication channel beyond hand-in-hand before. It was also designed to be resistant to arbitrary inflation policy. Besides the innovative part, bitcoin had also had a political attitude from the very first zeroth block (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Genesis_block).

But, we don't have to limit ourselves there. Bitcoin works better than any every other form of money, but it also works as a store of value too. I'm here since 2020, and I can tell you that, not only does it have accomplished to retain its value, but I'm also experiencing decent gains. It has managed to be an inflation hedge to me, and even more to those who had the guts to buy and hold before me.

Protection from arbitrary inflation policy has managed to protect me from inflation in general. What's a hedge if that ain't one?


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: sbrys on July 04, 2022, 02:01:50 PM

Bitcoin works better than any every other form of money, but it also works as a store of value too.

Conceptually it works indeed better than any other form of money but it's not really practical I would say ?


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: franky1 on July 04, 2022, 02:07:24 PM
Conceptually it works indeed better than any other form of money but it's not really practical I would say ?

practical?
.. what like bank notes
where by to get it you have to travel to a machine miles from home. stick in some plastic. push buttons and hope to get the paper without it exceeding a machine $xxx limit(ATM). or wait for business opening hours to get it from a person who questions you before giving you it(bank cashier) .
 then put that paper into a leather/fabric bound thing to hold it from the elements of weather or risk of it slipping out your pocket.
and then you have to have that bulge in your pocket knocking against your "knackers" all day while you walk around and hope if you want to spend it that the receiver has the right change to give you back.. or that they will tolerate taking large bank notes

in my town. taxi's/ local public buses, dont do cash anymore(or so rarely it surprises them to be asked/handed cash)

bitcoins other role is to be like cash, but deflationary. and without the cash hurdles of having to run to ATM/bank cashiers, without the bank limits on how much they allow you to hold and without the hurdles of the "what if the recipient doesnt accept/have change for"
bitcoin sorts all that out

if you mean practical as in buying stuff..
well i am writing you now with food and drink near me bought with bitcoin..
. its worked for me since 2012


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: BlackHatCoiner on July 04, 2022, 02:14:18 PM
Conceptually it works indeed better than any other form of money but it's not really practical I would say ?
Find me:
  • a more efficient and cheap way to send money across the sea, with no intermediaries, in pseudo-anonymous levels of privacy.
  • a more efficient way to pay a merchant instantly, with nearly-zero fees, via the internet.

Since trust is eliminated, it's reasonable to become more efficient/practical.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: fiulpro on July 04, 2022, 02:30:31 PM
You know the good thing is, there are no boundaries which means that as long as you own some bitcoins and use it howsoever you please you got nothing to worry about, you would ofcourse choose the method that suits you the best for me I generally use it as a payment method, but unfortunately odds are against me since most of the times I am unable to get someone to accept it as well so easy to convert it into fiat sometimes. I do think it is not an issue of how bitcoins is being used what's more important is understanding it's volatility and knowing that it is essentially as important as fiat now.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: sbrys on July 04, 2022, 02:31:26 PM
To be honest I have no issues with wiring money or paying by debt card.

P2P there are even apps thats we can use wiring small amounts of money instantly. Maybe not private but I have no incentive to do this private

Over here we can also pay with Bitcoin in some places but it's mostly always a gimmick converting immediately back to cash.

I'm just speaking from my side of the world but I have no issues paying at zero transaction costs.

That's why I'm saying in concept it's the most democratic/decentralized way of payment but for practical day to day use I prefer cash.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: ChrisPop on July 04, 2022, 02:38:39 PM
Exactly, most people don't realise it but Bitcoin is doing an amazing job at doing what it was designed to do which is exactly what the OP said. You can send & transfer infinite amounts of money around the world with an insignificant fee. Moreover you can carry that money on an USB drive, laptop or other similar devices while you travel around the world with nobody controlling you at customs.

Moreover it is I'd say it is the most secure decentralized network in the financial world. I'm expecting a good increase in adoption of the lightning network as well. Indeed the poor countries with highly inflationary currencies seem to be the first adopting Bitcoin as a day-to-day transactional currency and not necessarily as an instrument for storing wealth/investing.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: sbrys on July 04, 2022, 03:19:33 PM
Exactly, most people don't realise it but Bitcoin is doing an amazing job at doing what it was designed to do which is exactly what the OP said. You can send & transfer infinite amounts of money around the world with an insignificant fee. Moreover you can carry that money on an USB drive, laptop or other similar devices while you travel around the world with nobody controlling you at customs.

Moreover it is I'd say it is the most secure decentralized network in the financial world. I'm expecting a good increase in adoption of the lightning network as well. Indeed the poor countries with highly inflationary currencies seem to be the first adopting Bitcoin as a day-to-day transactional currency and not necessarily as an instrument for storing wealth/investing.

Don get me wrong I'm a big Bitcoin supporter as a store of value and admire de decentralized nature but did we really have issues with the things you mention ?

I could already wire infinite (until supplies last :)) money around the world. I carry my debit/credit cards everywhere and fees were lower/faster than a bitcoin transaction. It's not that we were carrying tons of bills around in the past.

Again I can imagine it's different in other parts of the world but for me it's not really adding anything to practicality.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: TheNineClub on July 04, 2022, 03:25:04 PM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place. That was an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years. What Bitcoin was supposed to be and is now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.
West world uses it as an investment. Poor countries use it as money, as it was designed. The Lightning Network is dealing with the scaling problem BTC was facing mainly since 2016/17 though it processed slowly far today. countries adopt it you can see clearly ( El- salvador )

The lightning network is the solution to the money problem & scalability problem which world is being faced at the moment. Bitcoin is the solution to the money problems not mainly to the inflation problem.

YES! Finally, someone pointed out what the initial use and idea of BTC was. The laser-eyed when Lambo idiots are giving BTC and crypto a bad name. And it just makes it look like it's a Ponzi. And not to mention the unnecessary forcing of mass adoption just so people can see their portfolio rocket to the stratosphere. This is going to shit really fast...


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: _BlackStar on July 04, 2022, 03:56:12 PM
People should be saying "bitcoin could potentially be a good inflation hedge in the future" rather than "bitcoin is an inflation hedge". The latter being false, at least as of today.
I agree with you, and here are a few things that support that statement in my opinion:
Unlike fiat currencies, bitcoins are: - Source (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths#Bitcoin_can.27t_work_because_there_is_no_way_to_control_inflation)
  • Predictable and limited in supply (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Controlled_supply)
  • Not controlled by a central authority (such as The United States Federal Reserve (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve))
  • Not debt-based

So it may be true that there is good potential to expect bitcoin to be a good inflation hedge in the future regardless of the circumstances that favor it. The limited supply and the absence of a controlling authority will very likely allow bitcoin to be a good choice to become one of the future hedging assets.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: aawalker on July 04, 2022, 10:45:54 PM
If Bitcoin is a hedge against inflation, then why does its price plummet when the Fed announced high interest rates?
Clearly at the current moment it is not a hedge--it is primally an asset in the same way a stock is, and its used as a speculative investment--that's why its price is highly correlated with the stock market. Could this change in the future? Maybe. But what would prompt that?


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: aawalker on July 04, 2022, 10:54:40 PM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place. That was an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years. What Bitcoin was supposed to be and is now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.
West world uses it as an investment. Poor countries use it as money, as it was designed. The Lightning Network is dealing with the scaling problem BTC was facing mainly since 2016/17 though it processed slowly far today. countries adopt it you can see clearly ( El- salvador )

The lightning network is the solution to the money problem & scalability problem which world is being faced at the moment. Bitcoin is the solution to the money problems not mainly to the inflation problem.

YES! Finally, someone pointed out what the initial use and idea of BTC was. The laser-eyed when Lambo idiots are giving BTC and crypto a bad name. And it just makes it look like it's a Ponzi. And not to mention the unnecessary forcing of mass adoption just so people can see their portfolio rocket to the stratosphere. This is going to shit really fast...

P2P electronic payments for developing countries with unstable fiat currencies is a good use case for BTC. But for the developed world, and the majority of people in the world, BTC is better suited as a frictionless reserve currency, or a store of value than anything else. VISA already solved the scaling problem without the need of any L2 solution. Plus, BTC's depreciative nature disincentivizes its use as currency and incentivizes HODLing.
It's okay for BTC to deviate from the founder's original goal, things change.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Wind_FURY on July 05, 2022, 05:48:31 AM
Bitcoin is still in its infancy.

I feel like we have to re-frame that argument a little.  Critics (https://blog.mollywhite.net/its-not-still-the-early-days/) are using it to belittle the community.  They say things like "No one would describe 'Windows 7' as still being in its infancy".  They kinda have a point.  Bitcoin's technology is a battle-hardened, grizzled warrior by this point, although it still receives frequent upgrades.  It's no longer a nascent project, and by describing it as such, we're selling it short.  

Perhaps we need to say something along the lines of "Bitcoin acceptance is still maturing, but the technology is robust"?


//EDIT:  Actually, this is better suited to a new topic (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5405129) to avoid derailing this one.


Debatable to say if Bitcoin is in its infancy or not from both sides of the debate. Comparing it to an argument, "Windows 7 is NOT in its infancy" doesn't make the argument "Bitcoin is still in its infancy" a wrong one. Both of them are different technologies solving different types of problems. Bitcoin is probably more comparable to early days internet during the 1970s. But the UNDERSTANDING of what Bitcoin is is definitely in its infancy.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Clochaard on July 05, 2022, 06:33:51 AM
The main reason why bitcoin is not an inflation hedge anymore as they used to be is because of the fact that many financial systems have started to accept Bitcoin.
Bitcoin ETFs, futures, and options are available and many big institutes are accepting bitcoin which is increasing the correlation between the Bitcoin and other traditional financial institutes.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: jaberwock on July 06, 2022, 05:22:51 PM
Finally, someone pointed out what the initial use and idea of BTC was. The laser-eyed when Lambo idiots are giving BTC and crypto a bad name. And it just makes it look like it's a Ponzi. And not to mention the unnecessary forcing of mass adoption just so people can see their portfolio rocket to the stratosphere. This is going to shit really fast...
No this wasn't the first person who pointed this out. I too pointed this out before on one of my replies when someone is blaming btc because they think it was a hedge to inflation. I don't think the two groups that you mentioned there are giving a bad name to crypto. They don't say anything bad but what they only do is help the adoption grow by encouraging the masses to invest in bitcoin.

It's still up to those people that hear it if they will believe on it. It's their own responsibility whatever happens to their money. If there's anyone here that discredits bitcoin then they are those who are against to it. They spread lies making those who have no knowledge in btc believe that btc was a negative coin.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: livingfree on July 06, 2022, 07:26:46 PM
It's not just in the West where bitcoin is being used as an investment. You can find it almost in every parts of the world that everyone uses it as an investment.

Yeah, it may not be intended to be as an investment when it was invented by satoshi. But that's how it goes right now, I think he has foreseen this happening because of its value as a volatile currency.

Is it a problem if it's not used as what it is intended for? No. Bitcoin is freedom and we choose what we want to do with it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: darkangel11 on July 06, 2022, 08:52:42 PM
I'd argue with all of you who nod their heads in approval of OP's statement. Bitcoin is an inflation hedge because by holding it you're literally gaining value over the years.
Looking back the lows of bitcoin have always been higher year to year and the 2 year average price is always higher.

Pick any moment and think about doing the most basic thing. Buy bitcoin when it's close to its 200  WMA and every time you did that in the 12 years that Bitcoin is with us, you hedged against inflation even if you're a citizen of a country with low inflation like Switzerland. Even at times when we went below the 200 WMA you were maybe at a 10% loss for a while, which is similar to what you'd be if you held fiat money in a safe for 2 years.



Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Abiky on July 10, 2022, 01:14:16 AM
I'd argue with all of you who nod their heads in approval of OP's statement. Bitcoin is an inflation hedge because by holding it you're literally gaining value over the years.
Looking back the lows of bitcoin have always been higher year to year and the 2 year average price is always higher.

Pick any moment and think about doing the most basic thing. Buy bitcoin when it's close to its 200  WMA and every time you did that in the 12 years that Bitcoin is with us, you hedged against inflation even if you're a citizen of a country with low inflation like Switzerland. Even at times when we went below the 200 WMA you were maybe at a 10% loss for a while, which is similar to what you'd be if you held fiat money in a safe for 2 years.

If you see it that way, then yes, Bitcoin is still an inflation hedge. It's just that people are focused on Bitcoin as a short-term investment, because they want to get rich quick. Besides, prices are volatile because Bitcoin is traded against Fiat. The whole world is still depending on the Fiat standard, so it's going to take a while before Bitcoin becomes a global unit of account. I'd buy as much Bitcoin during the bear market as possible to save it for the future.

From time to time, BTC has shown to reach higher market prices due to added scarcity and ever-increasing demand. We might never see BTC valued at $19k - $21k after the next halving. Who knows if investing now will turn us into Bitcoin millionaires within the not-so-distant future? Just my opinion :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Fivestar4everMVP on July 10, 2022, 01:44:06 AM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place.
Sorry to disagree with you on this matter specifically, Bitcoin has a very limited supply which i believe we all know, it is not important that Satoshi mention everything that Bitcoin is today in the whitepaper, circumstances or performance of a thing sometimes creates new uses for it, Satoshi might not have thought Bitcoin to be a hedge against inflation, but the limited supply, scarcity level, demand and its performance has made people see it as a hedge against inflation.
To give you an instance or example , Ten years ago, maybe with $2000 USD fiat money could afford you a certain type of car, lets use Toyota camry as an example, and you will up to 1000 Bitcoins to buy the same car, But today, you need $4000 USD or more in fiat money to buy the same car due to inflation, while with just 0.5 Bitcoin, you could buy two of that same car.
I hope this makes you see how Bitcoin truly is a hedge against inflation.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Abiky on July 20, 2022, 01:15:15 AM
Sorry to disagree with you on this matter specifically, Bitcoin has a very limited supply which i believe we all know, it is not important that Satoshi mention everything that Bitcoin is today in the whitepaper, circumstances or performance of a thing sometimes creates new uses for it, Satoshi might not have thought Bitcoin to be a hedge against inflation, but the limited supply, scarcity level, demand and its performance has made people see it as a hedge against inflation.
To give you an instance or example , Ten years ago, maybe with $2000 USD fiat money could afford you a certain type of car, lets use Toyota camry as an example, and you will up to 1000 Bitcoins to buy the same car, But today, you need $4000 USD or more in fiat money to buy the same car due to inflation, while with just 0.5 Bitcoin, you could buy two of that same car.
I hope this makes you see how Bitcoin truly is a hedge against inflation.

Long-term speaking, Bitcoin is the best inflation hedge in the world. It's just that people often see Bitcoin as a "get rich quick" scheme than a serious investment. Compared to Gold, I'd say Bitcoin is ten times better. It's decentralized, portable, with a predictable and finite supply of no more than 21m coins. For something that was worth less than a cent, I'd say Bitcoin has achieved a lot over the years. I'm pretty sure Bitcoin will reach $1m soon. The market is still bearish, so it would be best to accumulate more coins at a discount before it's too late. Just my thoughts ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: NotATether on July 20, 2022, 05:00:45 AM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place. That was an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years. What Bitcoin was supposed to be and is now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.

It seems that they have confused "inflation-resistant" to "inflation hedge", they are very different concepts.

One is something whose value should be relatively stable with respect to other governments' changes in interest rates, the second is some kind of stock you can always count on going up when inflation drags the rest of the markets down. Those people should buy Google or Amazon stock instead.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Abiky on July 22, 2022, 01:20:28 AM
It seems that they have confused "inflation-resistant" to "inflation hedge", they are very different concepts.

One is something whose value should be relatively stable with respect to other governments' changes in interest rates, the second is some kind of stock you can always count on going up when inflation drags the rest of the markets down. Those people should buy Google or Amazon stock instead.

Most people need to do their own research to understand what Bitcoin is truly about. The general public has a wrong mindset, believing Bitcoin is a "get rick quick" scheme. But we Bitcoiners know that is not the case. BTC's price always rebounds after a prolonged bear market. One thing for sure is that the cryptocurrency is a lot more valuable today than what it was a decade ago. Imagine how high BTC will go another decade from now. Buying Bitcoin now would be the wisest decision to make. I'd say Bitcoin is the perfect inflation hedge. Who knows if it ends up replacing Gold in the future? Just my thoughts ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Codswallop on July 29, 2022, 07:46:40 AM
Bitcoin was not designed to be a hedge against inflation, but the concept has gradually evolved due to its limited supply. When we compare available currencies, we only have fiat and Bitcoin. And, because fiat is unlimited and rapidly losing purchasing power, it is natural for people to seek refuge in Bitcoin and feel confident that their Bitcoin money will not lose purchasing power over time because no one can add more supply of it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Natalim on July 29, 2022, 12:10:41 PM
People have different opinions about Bitcoin like manipulated market, scam, Ponzi scheme, a sort of investment, and currency. And having to listen to people talking about Bitcoin, the more it gains interest and curiosity in the community making them as well to try. Now, it was to realize that some people are talking right while the majority had misconceptions, and misunderstandings about its behavior.

Apparently, it was the choice of the people to invest in Bitcoin, and not the thing to blame when there is a decrease in the potential value of fiat money, IMO.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: bestcoins1 on July 29, 2022, 12:30:08 PM
Bitcoin was not designed to be a hedge against inflation, but the concept has gradually evolved due to its limited supply. When we compare available currencies, we only have fiat and Bitcoin. And, because fiat is unlimited and rapidly losing purchasing power, it is natural for people to seek refuge in Bitcoin and feel confident that their Bitcoin money will not lose purchasing power over time because no one can add more supply of it.
Bitcoin's purchasing power will not be lost and can still be relied on as a very valuable asset at this time. But if someone buys Bitcoin to protect the value of his assets, I think it still has a risk because Bitcoin is not a stable currency in the market so someone is still better to choose stablecoins if he just wants to protect the value of the asset that is fixed and will not experience loss.


Title: Re: Bitcoin *is* an inflation hedge in first place. According to Satoshi.
Post by: nullius on July 29, 2022, 08:33:58 PM
Bitcoin was never supposed to be an inflation hedge in the first place. That was an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years.

Wrong.  It’s sad when people who don’t understand Bitcoin try to explain it to those who have been in it for much longer.  It is repulsive to see one of Bitcoin’s founding principles smeared as “an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years”.

Escape the arbitrary inflation risk of centrally managed currencies!  Bitcoin's total circulation is limited to 21 million coins.

I am not citing Satoshi as an authority, but rather, to rebut the ridiculous misinformation that Bitcoin’s anti-inflationary quality was “an idea built by influencers and speculators in the last years.”  That is wrong in fact.  Not a matter of opinion.


What Bitcoin was supposed to be and is now becoming is a P2p uncontrollable payment network across the globe.

That, too.  So...?


Why am I wasting my time tossing out correct information to be buried in a spam megathread?  Sigh...

Edit:  Problem fixed:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408084.0


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: amishmanish on July 30, 2022, 05:17:29 AM
Bitcoin is certainly getting affected by the market forces which as it has become a part of conventional economics and Yes it is a great investment for future. Bitcoin has advantage of being the first and strongest crypto currency. As the blockchain economy is currently booming, even during Covid there was tremendous growth of blockchain and bitcoin. So in long term term we can expect bitcoin to fare better in future. It will remain strong and keep of growing bigger with time, If this effectively mean being a inflation hedge, than yes it is an inflation hedge. Else economists have a better say.


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Abiky on July 31, 2022, 01:19:48 PM
Bitcoin was not designed to be a hedge against inflation, but the concept has gradually evolved due to its limited supply. When we compare available currencies, we only have fiat and Bitcoin. And, because fiat is unlimited and rapidly losing purchasing power, it is natural for people to seek refuge in Bitcoin and feel confident that their Bitcoin money will not lose purchasing power over time because no one can add more supply of it.

Bitcoin's purpose has been changed over the years because of its limited supply. It was designed to be "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash", but it's rather used as an electronic store of value by the masses. You can see how prices fluctuate constantly due to the speculative nature of the market. With this pace, Bitcoin will never be used as an alternative currency to existing Fiat. This would only change if Fiat is no longer used as the standard unit of account. If people began using Bitcoin regardless of its market price, everything would be different.

At least, the Blockchain is alive and healthy as ever. As long as decentralization is prioritized, Bitcoin will last a lifetime. Just my thoughts ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin Is not an inflation hedge in first place
Post by: Ozero on August 02, 2022, 10:00:00 AM
It's simply because it's too early for it to become an inflation hedge. There's a potential for bitcoin to be an actual inflation hedge once adoption is high enough to the point that it will be difficult for it to have price spikes in both directions.

People should be saying "bitcoin could potentially be a good inflation hedge in the future" rather than "bitcoin is an inflation hedge". The latter being false, at least as of today.
The fact that bitcoin will cease to show high volatility with its further great acceptance by people is only one of the versions. No one knows how the price of bitcoin will behave in the future. I believe that high volatility will remain with bitcoin for any adoption. That people will always make conflicting decisions about buying and selling bitcoin at a time when there will be a lot more use of bitcoin may not work. Therefore, bitcoin can already work as a protection against inflation.