Bitcoin Forum

did they sell at a loss?

Depends on 'which' bitcoin they sold. They have / had been accumulating for a very long time so depending on how they want to show it for tax reasons they could have sold at a loss or a profit.

At a guess, they want to build up a bit of a war chest of fiat for some reason. You don't sell assets just to improve your balance sheet for no reason.
That or they are feeling the pressure from elsewhere to sell it.

-Dave

They bought around February - March 2021 so 30-50k which means they sold at a loss adding power to the April - May crash.

This should be a lesson to those of you who want to invest in companies like Tesla. These moves show that they aren't run by geniuses but normal people who buy at the top and then panic sell at the bottom. They don't care about bitcoin, decentralization, changing the world. They also don't care about the environment. What Musk did pumping and dumping bitcoin and saying that it's bad for the environment was a low level scam you'd expect from a street peddler, not a CEO of a big company.

Elon could very well be directing this sort of liquidation with his upcoming Twitter troubles, like you say there could possibly be some tax advantages to be gained (in terms of stating a loss). Elon is a big manipulator and he was the one who came up with this crazy idea to jump Tesla on to the crypto bandwagon, so it would make sense if he was the one directing them to unwind it. He might need some of that cash flow to start fighting a rather expensive court case, considering he needs to find $44 billion which he committed to buying Twitter. Either that or they do not consider it to be viable assets any longer, it's a perfectly valid strategy to cut your losses and attempt to recoup at least some money if you think it'll fall even further.

I am not completely sure what price they bought in, but as mentioned before it seemed it was around 30k-50k.
Also, why would a company like Tesla be in such need for cash that they decided to sell their Bitcoin investment at a loss?

I believe it is highly unlikely they needed the cash, keeping in mind their stock price is relatively stable at the moment, around 700$ per share.
I'd dare the speculate that this was the result of pressure by some shareholders that thought it was a good idea to panic sell or perhaps this was a preventive measure in the advent of thougher environmental regulations against PoW cryptocurrencies and those companies that holds them.

In any case, this only works as a reminder that there are people in this forum that are more authentic Bitcoiners holding a few satothis than a big company holding thousands of BTC.

Couldn't it be just another manipulative movement from Elon Musk to play with market's prices? He expects to be followed by big investors on his steps, so when he announces he is going to sell bitcoins or has sold bitcoins, others will simply do the same, dumping the price even more, therefore Tesla and Musk can buy bitcoin again much cheaper and increase their holdings, wealthy and influence.

No, it's not enough to do anything to the market and it's already been sold.
Could be dozens of reasons:
From they want to expand in China and as we know China is anti BTC
As others have pointed out could be a large investor / fund wants them out of the financial market so to speak and in the car building market.
Could be they are worried about something and they want to sell now so when they spend the money it does not look like they are selling because they had to.
And so on. It's less then $1 billion US so not that much in the overall BTC market.

-Dave

I mean, I think it's probably hard to argue that Elon is an exceptionally talented businessman, and definitely has some other very good qualities about him, in the intellectual field. So, I'm not going to take that away from him. However, the reason they likely sold was stakeholders, and public perception, rather than the issue of not believing in Bitcoin or wanting to say invested in Bitcoin.

These days, reputation is everything, and especially for a car company that's trying to appear to be the greener of the alternatives. Supporting a currency which has had some very public negative news about energy usage isn't exactly the greatest look for them, even if the claims aren't that valid.

And you think Musk can keep silent for two weeks without posting something about Bitcoin or Dogecoin?
If they would have wanted to give a signal to Chinese authorities they would have sold everything, besides, what do you think is more unpopular for the CCP, Tesla holding some bitcoins, or Starlink offering uncensored internet? 

Anyhow
They bought Bitcoin worth 1.5 billion, they sold 10% of their holdings last year now they've sold 75% of it and got $936M and have currently $218 million.
So if we go from 1.35 billion worth of coins, 75% would be just 1.01, so the maximum loss would be around 70 million, still lower than their claimed $101 million of profit from the first sale.

no they didnt
elon bought his stash in-before december 2020. he reported it on the december 2020 tax filings..
.. those tax filings entered the media circus of speculation viral commenting about it in feb-march 2021

I doubt if this is a move to manipulate the price, we are in the levels of $20k and just occasional pump and his selling should somewhat the market very hard, but it seems the effect is not that felt or it is very slow right now.

I can't recall when exactly Musk started to hype on bitcoin, but I think as smart as he is, probably he be selling at a lost here. And yeah, you could say that this is a business move on his part as he is moving his money right now to whatever purpose he thinks it may serve him and his company (maybe another venture or something).

i heard the news about tesla sold their 10% of bitcoin that to test out the liquidity in 2021 that making a whooping profit of around 101 Million dollar

quick math if tesla sold their 10% and 75% they still have 15% right  

"In the first quarter of 2021, when Tesla went big on bitcoin, the company said the decision was a matter of becoming more flexible, diversifying and picking up returns from its cash holdings. The company quickly sold 10% as the currency ran up, contributing $101 million of profit in the period." - https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/20/tesla-converted-75percent-of-bitcoin-purchases-to-fiat-currency-in-q2-2022.html

and he said this "Musk said in an earnings call on Wednesday. “This should be not taken as some verdict on bitcoin,” he said, adding that Tesla is open to increasing its crypto holdings in the future"

and like others said we don't know pretty much in what price they buy, so I think tesla still sold at profit in average but I don't know if they have been cutloss because need hard cash

I’m not really all that surprised. I’m tired of Elon having such an influence when it comes to the cryptocurrency space. Truth is the guy completely talks out of his ass when it comes to bitcoin and cryptocurrency, so maybe this means he will talk less about it. Tired of that joker.

In fairness to Tesla, I don't think this is a simple case of buying at the top and then panic selling at the bottom. This to me is a business move and not an emotional decision. And as DaveF pointed out, "you don't sell assets just to improve your balance sheet for no reason." So there must be something the company is up to. They might be taking a certain business position which requires them enough cash. I believe this company won't take a loss just like that.

Okay, so all the excitement and price hype of announcing the purchase at the time has turned out to be a bluff. It also seemed to be the beginning of a series of many companies converting part of their reserves to Bitcoin, convinced by Saylor, but Saylor's speech seems to be dismantled more and more every day, especially borrowing from anything to buy Bitcoin, even mortgaging your house if you had it paid to buy Bitcoin.

Tesla holds 43,200 BTC and in its Q2 report (April to June) it announced that it sold 75%, about 32,400 BTC or $936 million. 936000000/32,400=~$28,888 . They sell for an average of $28.8k
At this average price, I don't think they sold at a loss.

https://i.imgur.com/jILBcoO.jpg
https://bitcointreasuries.net/?fbclid=IwAR0qndALqGOIx8bWphUkh-EZU2I_SgG2oua2dnB_dZWV7PE-JnC7UD9cBuc

According to twitter Ki Young Ju, on June 12, there was a large amount of BTC transferred from Coinbase to Binance and Bitfinex, in order to help customers sell a large amount of BTC and today confirmed that the seller is Tesla.
https://i.imgur.com/ch2h6bh.jpg
https://twitter.com/ki_young_ju/status/1549872949586546688?fbclid=IwAR3GXvDoBQZTdjkhLlSosvUVYf3kiYT41YeG8tm6xV1t0NOPHE3kngdLuJE

According to my suspicions, the recent crash of Celsius and 3 Arrows may have been caused by this massive bitcoin sale.

Who cares about that. The important thing is that this is an excellent news. Every time a big whale sells their bitcoin or a large portion of it, that is an excellent news because market manipulation capability shrinks. Not to mention the risk of them panic selling when their businesses go under.
In other words it is always better to have 1000 people own 1 bitcoin each than to have 1 entity owning 1000 bitcoins.

This is purely business. No emotions attached just business thinking. They wanted to maximize their cash position as a result of the Covid lockdowns in China. That is the reason according to Elon why they sold their bitcoin. Would Tesla had converted 75% of its bitcoin holdings if the price of was still at its all-time high is $69,045 or if we weren't in the crypto winter?

Why don't tell just spit it out like how it is?

They simply "sold" their bitcoins.

Nobody cares what this paperhand boi Elon does anyway. Maybe he will learn a lesson from this mistake. You always "buy low and sell high" You just don't do the opposite because it makes you lose money.

Hearing that Elon?

It's nothing new for Elon Musk to manipulate the market. 75% of Tesla's bitcoin holdings were sold in Q2 for $936 million.

Don't you think Tesla paid more per Bitcoin? The things has yet to be resolved. Covid restrictions shut down his factory in China, which is why he's selling bitcoin. Is it wise to sell bitcoin during a bear market? Is there a logical explanation for selling at a loss of approximately $500 million? For hand cash only!

Do you feel familiar with this one phrase or sentence  from Elon?
If I remember correctly, this expression is the exact same sentence that was said before Tesla bought bitcoin for the first time.
https://i.imgur.com/JdJLGWC.jpeg

I suspect this happened for a reason, probably he wants to keep his name in the trend so that he can keep making from his manipulation tactics, in fact we don't be surprised if he buys huge stack of Dogecoin st his next move and sell all of them in just next few days do as a crypto community we don't let the manipulation to get into the hands of single person and his own benefits.

As per the articles that I have read, it's because that Tesla itself was affected by the recession so they will have to pump at least $ 1 billion right now with the sales coming from bitcoin.

We can only speculation if he is going to Doge or not, but it make sense for him to sell as his flagship company is suffering as well. There is a chance that he will go back to bitcoin if everything settles down a bit.

This is a strange decision, why it was necessary to sell right now at the end of the second quarter, when the price of bitcoin fell very significantly. If I understood correctly, then they sold their bitcoins at a loss, if I'm wrong, then correct me, this is somehow not at all reasonable. At the same time, Musk did not forget to mention that he did not sell a single doge. Once again, I am convinced how outside the box Musk thinks, but even so, I cannot understand why sell bitcoin and say that they are still open for investment in bitcoin. Unless he is waiting for a further fall and will buy at a lower price.

at a recession. the smart thing is to get cashflow heavy and then stockpile as much product, material, resources as you can, to live and work long term..  meaning if you have a business buying parts, buy a few years of parts in spring(before they become expensive next year.)

then this summer you raise your own final products price to match the inflated fiat market rate to get more cashflow which you then reinvest, by putting the profits back into deflationary/bluechip assets/shares before their prices rise this autumn.
...
many smart asic farms sold extra coin this spring so they can lock in electric contracts for upto 2 years instead of the usual quarterly/6month/1year contracts. thus when electric prices for regular people increased this summer. asic farms still enjoy the lower rates of lastyear/this spring.

..
as for elon. seems he is following this plan, although a couple months too late on getting himself cashflow heavy to then buy parts for the next couple years.
i dont think he sold at a loss because the feb 2021 media circus was in response to a tax report of december 2020. meaning when prices were below $23k he acquired coin. and so the new news cycles of the 2022 sale, would have been at over $28k+

After 75% sell off Bitcoin still absorbing all the selling pressure wow! , This shows indeed no one owns Bitcoin. The More people sell/vomit their Bitcoin the More people ready to Stomach it all. Anyways I think Bitcoin existed before Elon Musk came in and invested and does not need Musk to be there regardless of his impact coming into invest in Bitcoin. After all we survived the China's great dump and we will equally survive this dump.
Therefore Bitcoin is not a "Musk have" , in order to succeed.

Let's not forget that financial matters in large companies like Tesla are run by people that were educated in the traditional Fiat educational system. They are used to the "rules" and behavior of traditional assets and commodities.... and little or no volatility that comes with trading in those financial tools.

Crypto currencies tend to bend those "rules" .....and a 80% drop in the price and a 160% recovery ....is not unusual to "strong hands" in the Crypto scene. I think they (Tesla) needed liquidity for other projects and they were forced to sell at a loss to help to fund that.  ;)

he didnt sell at a loss though.
he acquired coin from pre december 2020 (under $23k) and sold in 2022 at over $28k
(the acquisition news of feb 2021 concerned a deal done before december 2020)
(the sell off news of july 2022 concerned a deal done before july 2022)

just remember. by the time you read about something in media... the deal was already done a long time ago.
any price drama after a news event, is never due to the buy/sell of the celebrity. but of the speculators being last to the market due to media influence



celebrity news storms will never kill bitcoins underlying value. or break the code. bitcoin will survive
but the human emotional speculation does play fun and games with the speculative price above value.

this is why people should learn that the market rates ATH or the quarterly high is not a price point to be thought of as the stable value that should sustain.
the value is always bottom up not top down.
so if speculation causes a dip. great thats the price coming closer to value, and a great time to buy. never think of it as a 'crash' think of it as cheaper deals better opportunities.

prices going down are recovering from speculative hyped up drama. a price going down is never a bad event.
the future/long term deflationary economics will take care of a value rise over the long term future. so never think that celebrity news is going to kill value or break code. its just going to play drama games of the speculative price above value. where even bad news(that dips the price) is good news(to buy more in while cheap)

if your still stuck with the mindset where you believe the price "crashed" from a $69k point..
then atleast think todays prices are "discount". not "death"... but atleast try, even if it is hard, to flip your mindset and value bitcon from bottom up. not top down. then you will start to never think of a "crash" again. and instead a recovery back to value.

remember bitcoin is deflationary, not inflationary. so its the opposite mindset compared to fiat market terms
crash=recovery, dip=discount

Excellent news, although I would have preferred to have read that he sold 100% of all the Bitcoins he bought, because he has shown many times that he does not really understand what he has invested in, no matter how intelligent some people consider him to be. Regardless of whether he is at a loss or has made some money, the time he chose to sell is completely wrong from a profit perspective.

I only hope that Mr. Mars stays away from Bitcoin, and lets him stick to things he somewhat understands.

https://i.imgur.com/yTBAvMd.jpg

Perhaps Elon Musk knows about the upcoming bitcoin price dump and sells most of the coins. Then he will buy bitcoin for 10-14 thousand dollars, and as always, we will find out about this later, when he reports on purchases.
Otherwise, I see no reason to sell bitcoins now

They sell it because they know when feds up the interest rate bitcoin going to dump hard. So they sold now and when the BTC dump they will buy again. This is what elon do for Doge and SHIB also.

I have a kind of different input on this piece of news.  Maybe Elon knows something is about to go down with Bitcoin regulation in the US or Europe and sold Bitcoin before the FUD comes out?

On the other hand.  Elon is consciously manipulating markets, so could it be an attempt of his to create another dump so that Tesla could re-purchase at lower prices?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

It is now apparent that Tesla and Elon are here for the preservation of values due to inflation and it is obvious they don't care or give a damn thing about bitcoin adoption or the technology.
First, they announce that they will accept bitcoin for their product and played everyone believing that they are here for the long-term adoption and later denounced that they no longer accept due to energy concerns after selling a few of their sats and he came back and tell the public that they were tasting bitcoin liquidity, Nice try Elon! He is a twister and a fraudster and I'm more than that Bitcoin Maxis now knows his true colour.

As if that was not enough, they have now sold about 75% of their bitcoin with some crap headline, well it is their bitcoin and they are free to sell, the more they sell, the more buyers keep accumulating, and they will come back by the time we hit 100k and buy another one and who knows there will be another richest man that might have to replace him.

We cannot be sure if they are telling the truth, and whether they sold the bitcoins or not. Because I think the reason why Tesla tried to take some space from bitcoin was because of the pressure from the governments, so maybe they accounted that they sold bitcoins to get away from the pressures of the governments, but on the other side of the story as far as I know Elon Musk said we would not sell the bitcoins, now this news cannot be suitable for them to be trusted after this. But regarding the reason for selling bitcoins, I guess if they really sold bitcoins they got profits from it and they are going to buy later.

You have a very high opinion of this man as if he is someone whose opinion should mean something to Bitcoin, when in fact he is completely insignificant all the time trying to be at the center of something. A man bought BTC to attract the attention of the media, now he sold it to be in the center of attention again, and millions of followers on something he wanted to buy and gave up are waiting for his next prophecy.

The man is a classic supporter of altcoins, with a special emphasis on one altcoin - and due to his manipulations, a lawsuit was filed for the damage he caused to investors.

That's a financial statement release if Tesla which is a public traded company would go and lie that it's going to be treated as a crime, although it's only a slight punishment and they might get away with it by paying fines the outcome of them found to be falsifying statements will be 100 times worse.
We're talking about a company with 60 billion in other assets and revenue of another 55 billion, not your average Twitter scammer or fake wanna-be businesses s like Do Con or Alex Ponzisnky.


Just drop the tinfoil hat.
What government is pressuring Tesla to sell coins while at some time allowing billions of trading to be done and thousands of their citizen to buy?
The US is allowing 30 000 BATM to run all day in the country, 40% of the hashrate to be mining there, the largest stash owners in the world to roam free from Tv station to the radio station and they are pressuring Tesla to dump some coins?
Get real!

That's useful to know, had always thought Tesla bought around $30K prices. Didn't realise that was simply when the tax filings were announced. Thanks for info.

So they bought around $20K or less, and sold somewhere between $17.5K and $47K, based on Q2 price range. They almost certainly didn't sell for a loss but a profit then, probably around $30 to $40K when the market had started to turn bearish if I had to guess. At least it means they have more fiat to deploy when they decide to re-enter. Assuming the 25% left was in order to still have long-term exposure.

For starters, that's not really how OTC works. In the bull market there is often a premium, in a bear market there is often a discount.

If they bought in Q4 2020, as the tax reports apparently show, then they bought in a bull market (or the start of one) so it's very unlikely they would have found a discount back then.


Unless Tesla were breaking the law, then quite simply this didn't happen. Otherwise it would have been reported in their Q1/Q2 tax filings.


Sure, he could of bought at $100 or $1K, but this topic is about Tesla's position in Bitcoin, not Elon's.

For me, the idolization of this person seems something completely incomprehensible and strange. Apparently, I am not influenced by his charms and the follower didn't work out of me. :) But we can't ignore the impact he and his company have on the entire crypto industry. Don't you think that attracting media attention in this way would be "expensive"? Judging by the financial statements, the losses are considerable. You can find cheaper ways to get media attention. I don't know the motives and goals of the tesla, but I can't believe in actions "at a loss", otherwise this company would cease to exist by going bankrupt.

Too soon to say it. The recession can change your plan if you did not manage risk well at beginning. It is the same for small investor too. If you don't have money reserve to spend in bear market, what you bought in bull market must be sold in bear market at loss. You don't have choice, only one choice and must execute it.

We don't know why Tesla and Elon sold their Bitcoin.

Every company can change plans but I don't protect Elon or Tesla. You must know that Elon speaks not based on plans. In many speech on behalf of Tesla team or SpaceX team, he made his teams shocked because they did not know anything about plan Elon said.

It can be his instinct that makes SpaceX and Tesla succeed so far. When he brings it to crypto, it makes the market goes crazy but crypto market is already crazy without Elon. Therefore with Elon, it is doubled and out of tolerance. He has responsibility with what he tweets or says but people who believe in it must be responsible for themselves.

Bitcoin Treasuries and Tesla: https://bitcointreasuries.net/

I wrote a thing initially on how not selling at $60k does not mean selling at a loss and that they could've still made profits from the deal, BUT then I realized it's not so simple.
So the news of Tesla purchasing a lot of BTC (the company itself rather than Elon individually) hit the media in early February 2021 (February 7-8), when the price was around $38k. If we assume they bought around that time, then the buying price is around $38k per coin.
Then there's a question of when Q2 starts. You might think it's in May, and in that case they either sold at the same price as they bought it (more or less) or they sold at a loss. But the financial Q2 actually started on April 1, so they could have hypothetically sold at around $46k at most, bringing them (very optimistically) up to 20% profit. While not much by Bitcoin investment standards, it's not bad when you invest a ton of money either.

The exposure Tesla got with the purchase was nearly priceless. Basically free global marketing.

The profit/loss was never really an issue…

Purposely, so that they don't have to pay for their annual tax because losses outweigh the gain.  But I think they had sold earlier and just reported it late.


True, I also think the loss is somehow negligible if we weigh their global exposure benefits.   But I still think that there is something hidden in there, Elon is a scheming person and on top of that he is a talented businessman with top rank skill,  so declaring such things will have more than benefits than the assumed "loss" on that conversion.

True. I expected this as well because I remember elon hated btc for not being an environment friendly but I wonder why they only sell 75 percent of their btc wealth? Even if they sell it all, they will still be in profit because they got involved in btc long time ago. I think that was before the last year's hype.

Elon is not that active anymore when it comes to crypto talks so don't worry because I think he will completely abandon crypto soon because there are more interesting things that he will be doing than posting stuffs about cryptos which aren't really that beneficial to the majority. I just hope that this news here won't affect the small improvement of btc.

Yeah, they're on the news, as in everywhere and the same time, their company name was on it. They get free advertising from almost every news agency, paper and in the mass media.
What a strategy for them, they just hope on to invest in a known cryptocurrency, they sell at profit and they get all the exposure that they want and needed for them to have more sale for their cars. A great strategy indeed.

Thats how business works and the owner is indeed that not dumb not to make some steps which wont really be that relevant or not good for the business.All things had been planned from getting profit from their crypto investment and at the same time they are really indeed getting that attention or exposure.Win-win situation right? You wont really be making yourself a billionaire if you arent
really that good when it comes to these things. Properly planned indeed but since its their money and i dont know on why some people are really that in rage on why Tesla had sold out their
crypto holdings? Its their asset so they do have the full right on when they would be selling it out.We cant really just tell them to hold on like forever.There's always a tendency or chances for
them to sell off if they do see that it is indeed the right time.

Any form of advertising is indeed good for a company.
They may be selling at a loss but hey, they got a very good advertisement with their Tesla company.
Anyway, it is up to the people how they view this. But at the end of the day, you are the one taking care of your funds.
So a good advertisement or not, it is on your hands how you you react on this situation.

This might be another failed attempt by Elon Musk's to try to manipulate the market for his own benefit. By selling BTC, prices could dump so he could buy more coins at a discount. Rinse and repeat. I don't think the company sold at a loss, since it still has a lot of money at its disposal. It really doesn't matter what Elon or his company does with their BTC holdings.

People should stop following Elon Musk and focus on what makes crypto best. Decentralization is what is truly about to bring banking to the unbanked. BTC is projected to reach $1m in the future, so Elon would be missing a huge profit opportunity if he gets out now. With or without Elon, I'm pretty confident Bitcoin will last for generations. Just my thoughts ;D

I don't know if Elon is trying to get some hype again like what he did to DOGE or he just sold their Bitcoins because they wanted to and they just created a made-up reason for it.

The market reacted a bit on it when it went down but now it is starting to go up again and TBH, an institution or a whale or a large holder of Bitcoin selling their holdings is a good news for us because the Bitcoins will be spread out to everyone therefore, manipulation will be lessen. I wonder when will Microstrategy sell theirs :D. JK

Anyway, I don't care at all whether they will sell at a loss or Elon will buy again in the future blah blah blah. If this is some form of advertisement or exposure to the public because Tesla stocks are now plummeting then maybe they succeed because they are now in the news :D.

This is definitely a good point, but I would argue that there are still two sides to the coin when it comes to Tesla getting involved with Bitcoin. Tesla doesn't only try to position itself as a "green" car brand. It is also strongly aiming at resonating with the digital generation. Fancy looking, highly technological cars. Everything is about connection and data, everything is automatic and digital. Tesla making a move into Bitcoin was about more than just acquiring a digital currency that Tesla believes to be of high temporary and future relevance and probably of speculative value

https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/tesla-sold-936m-of-bitcoin-kept-its-dogecoin-reserves/

To me it was also a major marketing move towards a global movement that has been growing exponentially all around the globe for a decade now. Like, really, would a car company buy Bitcoin AND Dogecoin solely in hopes of making a net profit at some point in time in the future? That's not to be denied, but by no means is that the only reason in my opinion. Getting into crypto, and specifically into Bitcoin and Dogecoin, was well considered from a marketing perspective.

https://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/business-news-doge-funded-elon-musk-moon-mission-creates-buzz-but-meme-coin-falls/400755

Obviously, Musk playing around with Dogecoin, sending satellites to the moon and whatever else he has/had planned was clearly ending up in massive media attention and marketing for Tesla.

After all, does anyone really know how many Bitcoin and Dogecoin Musk owns privately? Could anyone tell for sure that Musk is NOT one of the biggest Bitcoin or Dogecoin holders in the world? Or has been in the past and knew about his influence when distancing himself and Tesla from PoW right after he potentially sold as a private person?

I think this is a super difficult and complex topic. He might also clearly have underestimated the backfire from all the renewable energy stakeholders as you said. That definitely also played a role.

again
elon did not buy coin in feb 2021. .. he bought in-before december 2020(under $23k). its on his financial records of december 2020 that he acquired coins. thus the price was under $23k..
those financial records went viral, where media speculated it in feb 2021 to try and cause some speculation in feb 2021.. so dont base elons acquire coin price based on the media release date. base it on the date or before. where he actually filed a financial report acknowledging a purchase

the 2022 media viral speculation about the sell did not mean he sold in july 2022. the sell happened before that.
again the media are talking about it in july. but thats not when they were sold
suggestions are he sold at the $28k-$30k area

once you read it in media, your too late to speculate on it. public media are last to know.

..
as for the drivel about 'elon consciously causing speculation'
no.. media is, using outdated info

the topic created here. is using a financial record.
this is not a tweet today from elon speculating or causing drama. its instead a link from a media source that found a company financial report/memo.

so its media trying to cause manipulation/speculation/drama, which is then inflated by other people like this topic creator then posting it to further the drama.

elon sold the coins ages ago now. its not 'news today' about an event that happened this week.. its outdated data from an event that happened last month/before.. where media is just slow and outdated trying to cause some emotional spark now

Exactly this. Each time the shorts fail and the losses start to pile on we see this type of FUD come out trying to push the price lower so that the desperate speculators could recover a small amount of what they'd lost.

True that and it is obvious that Bitcoin doesn't need people like Elon Musk to continue to bring negative news to the system but the interesting thing is that, there are those that understand Bitcoin with the liquidity and are willing to buy them up. Elon is becoming bad news to himself even if it was just only the twitter deal, I thought he was a smart person and would have usually done his homework before investment.

For someone who has several hundred billion $, I think $1.5 billion is actually a very small amount to buy a place in the everyday Bitcoin discussions. What surprises me is that people equate the money that someone has invested with the fact that someone has knowledge or honorable intentions in all of this.

The average investor's need to have a leader seems to be stronger than the very idea represented by Bitcoin, which is clearly seen from how many millions follow every word that comes out of the mouth of their idol. It didn't work with any person who tried to impose himself as a person of special importance, and now it turns out that Musk is no crypto messiah either.

Oh yeah, the guy who made hundred of billions from other businesses is going to lie in a financial statement and buy more coins on his own to increase his wealth by, how much? Seriously, people should stop thinking that everything in this world revolves around crypto and that everyone is so keen to get his hand on it that it affords to risk throwing down the toilet a multibillion company.

Start differentiating from Twitter posts about "safu" moon" laser eyes" and an official document.
It's quite ironic that nobody has ever questioned if Salvador has indeed purchased the coins they claim they have since we don't have any proof of that but once it's about selling they will not trust even a signed document, which if forged comes with a sentence!

If Musk really wanted to crash the markets or spread "FUD", don't you think he would have gone to Twitter and said he has sold his coins? Yet he only mentions the sell in a usual conference about Tesla earnings, it also added that this is not an indicator or an 'a verdict on Bitcoin.'



And yet, just like a hundred others who "don't care" what Musk does you're here on this topic discussing him. Ironic, isn't it?
Nobody cares what Musk does but we have currently 7 topics about it and hundreds of replies. Really, really funny!


But speaking of equating stuff, why do we equate Tesla's decision with Musk's beliefs?
I've seen people mentioning that he sold ~900 million to pay for the Twitter fine, but these are Tesla's assets, not Musk's money.

Regarding the OP, I just have to say: better for the plebs. They have a chance of buying a bit more for them and make it a bit less centralised in terms of possession!

No one knows because we don't have the exact time they bought in. In the past year, they made over $100 million selling bitcoin, but the average price may result in a loss this time.

Yes, it really does not matter. It might cause a bit of panic in the market, but we should thank them for selling their bitcoin. The market will be less manipulative and has created an opportunity for those who have just bought in during the last drop.

Are you implying that Tesla founded in 2003 doesn't know what risk management was all about, they have been in the system right before the genesis block was mined, they knew what they did. It is not as if it was only bitcoin they had as an option to get fiat to stock more items due to recession but I feel they don't believe in bitcoin as a store of value otherwise they would have sorted out the fiat elsewhere.


It wouldn't be far from what franky1 discuss here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5407060.msg60604239#msg60604239


They had plans and that was what they just executed and surprises the public. It will be ridiculous that a company like Tesla doesn't have plans, plans are secretive to the mind and that was what they had in mind should in case things don't go as planned, they sold and left the remaining 15% as another plan we don't know yet.

We aren't talking about Elon here but Tesla. Elon bought, like you said, in 2020 and sold his personal stash in 2021 claiming it was bad for the environment.
Tesla continued to hold until 2022 and sold during the crash somewhere in April or May.


Then you might be wrong. Just to be clear, you might also be right, but...

Coming into the quarter Tesla (ticker: TSLA) held roughly 42,000 coins it had purchased for about $30,000 apiece, on average
https://www.barrons.com/articles/tesla-sells-bitcoin-holdings-51658352021

As their initial earnings report suggests, the company has sold $936 million worth of Bitcoin at the price of $28,888, which coincides with the massive Bitcoin plunge we saw back in June when the cascade of liquidations sent BTC right to the $17,800 level.
https://u.today/heres-how-much-tesla-lost-by-selling-its-bitcoins-at-29000

Elon cannot really change the market as much as he thinks he could. Sure, it has been a "bad" market for the past 24 hours, but bitcoin has been 10%+ higher in the past week, and ETH has been 30%+ higher in the past week as well. So, just realize what you are doing and that would be something much better.

In the end, crypto is not in the hands of just one person, it's in the hands of many people and that is why there isn't any type of situation where people could end up selling or buying and creating a chaos in the market that would benefit them. Elon is doing that, he always says he bought it when he needs the price to go up, and says he sold it when he needs it to go down, and that manipulation stops eventually.

This is really strange. They obviously cannot sell for loss or else this loss would have been reflected in their income statement and this would have been a big failure of Elon that he bought Bitcoin at such high levels only because he wanted and now sold it at loss just because of his wish. This will give a very bad image of Tesla's corporate governance. Moreover this would have been the new buzz of the market if this would have happened so I don't think this has happened so far.

Elon loves the spotlight and he never gets tired of drawing attention to himself, honestly, I wish he had sold everything and be done with it so that the crypto community will finally be free from tesla btc bag. Despite selling 75% the market was not severely affected by it, seems there are more hungry buyers than tesla selling. Am not sure what he was expecting from that move but I can tell it is not what he expected. There was no panic sale, Your loss Elon.

They made a financial decision that their team must have reasons to be ok for the company. Tesla is a big company and decisions such like this are usually not made by one man as people usually think Elon musk, so we can't say they sold at a loss and we can say the made some gains either, Tesla knows better.

If you compare the selling price with ATH then they sold at loss. But likely they aren't on the loss of average price. They have started buying Bitcoin at a low price most likely average buy price was $31,620. I don't know exactly which point they sold. So don't know if they lost or have some profits. Now I realized why Bitcoin had been dumping so hard. However, Elon made too much from Doge's manipulation. So he doesn't care about Bitcoin loss.

Correct, it seems very odd to me the kind of treatment that Elon receives, he's just another owner of a company, nothing more nothing less, and yet a great deal of people treat him as a genius that can do no wrong and that has all the answers.

Basically there is a cult of personality around him, similarly to what happened with Steve Jobs, and that is a mistake, he's a human and as such he has some virtues some defects and he makes mistakes, and the fact that most likely he sold for a loss and he is unable to see the potential in bitcoin is something which will eventually come down to haunt him.

when i refer to elon. i am referring to the tesla stash.. because elon is tesla..(same human brain deciding.. even if its a diferent biological body or busines entity connected to that brain)

here is MEDIA talking about a buy in feb 2021 for tesla (i still see it as elon buying it due to him being CEO obviously)
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/08/tesla-buys-1point5-billion-in-bitcoin.html
but IDIOTS call that the signal that elon/tesla bought in february 2021..
NOPE
the article refers to a sec filing by tesla(elons company) of december 2020
https://www.sec.gov/ix?doc=/Archives/edgar/data/1318605/000156459021004599/tsla-10k_20201231.htm

so the coins sold in 2022 are coins acquired pre december 2020

if you want to knit pick the name. of ethier company or human.. they are the same human decision maker but different name of entity.. but its all talking about the same stash of coin.

coins purchased pre december 2020 and sold early-mid 2022

We're starting to see that the market is no longer that strong when someone influences it. It's true that it all lies down to us, the people, and the demand for which we react when someone like Elon or Tesla or any other influence tells and does something about their holdings.
What he's doing is for his own sake and pumping his own money and he knows the market very well. He tells what people want to hear and him, seeing the effect of it favorable to him and has to do the right action of selling at prices where they're at profit.

elond did not influence it. (EG tweet storm)
it was MEDIA exaggerating things and people are no longer fools to MEDIA

we know that elon/tesla did not sell coins the day media decided to report the story.
we also looked at the amount of coin sold weeks before media speculation and seemed it as old news that was already 'priced in' thus not a factor worthy of reacting to.

its the case that MEDIA is getting slow, taking to long to find worthy stories and that some people are starting to get wise to media tricks

though there are some in this topic that just clickbait fall for headlines and think that date of headlines/post is date of event. and ned correcting several times before it gets through to them, so still some education is needed

When I think about Tesla's coin purchases, I always thought they were in the $10k to $20k range. That seems to fit the time frame best. Since they sold most of the coins during the second quarter of this year, it means that most of the coins sold between $30k and $45k. So I don't think they sold it at a loss. Profit is the first priority for companies, after all.

Are they at loss? I don't think so, I've remembered them selling 10% last year and that was near to the high or it was exactly at high. They won't settle for loss if they're going to sell.
They know how the market works and they're into business so basically, upon purchase, they aim for the profit and that's how they're going to make it and despite selling it at a lower price, they're still in profit.

Why not, why keep those 25% in the wallet if they have already sold that much amount. They just sold it to overcome the other problems that company might be facing financially (that’s funny when you talk about billionaires company) but obviously every company has their own management system and if you see the screenshot then they have given the same reasons.

But being billion dollar company they should keep us in the safe zone and help markets flourish in positive ways.

The data says that EM is the largest individual owner of the company's shares with almost 16% of the shares, but I guess that doesn't give him the right to make decisions without the other owners - so you're right when you say that people shouldn't mix the two things. I was referring to the fact that people have the wrong perception of EM as someone who supports Bitcoin for the reasons it was created, and the man is just an investor who aims to make as much money as possible.

Honestly, I don't follow the Twitter saga closely, but it's not surprising to me that people draw various conclusions that don't make much sense.

With the difference that Tesla has a board of directors that makes the decisions, it's not all Elon. They are also separate entities tax-wise. For this reason Elon bought BTC as a private investor and Tesla also bought their share. Musk called Bitcoin bad for the environment and dumped most (if not all) of his BTC. He claimed to hold some, but we don't know how much. Maybe just 1% of what he used to hold in Q1 2021.  


Tesla reported bitcoin investment as a loss. If the coins were from 2020, why did they place it as something with negative impact on their balance sheet?

That's only if we agree that Elon has total complete authority over the board. I don't think it is so. Do you remember when they were trying to ban him from tweeting because the board claimed his actions could harm the company's image?

I never said I had a high opinion of this man or his opinion should mean something to Bitcoin, not sure how you understood that.  I personally despise Musk for the things he has done to his own advantage at the expense of others, but I can not ignore that Tesla's investment in Bitcoin did make an impact at the time and Musk successfully manipulated or moved a number of coins, including Bitcoin, through simple tweets and announcements.

He has influence, he has power.  Even if he is not the most appreciated man in our community, it would be foolish to pretend his Bitcoin decisions do not have at least a slight, temporary influence over the market.  Back when Tesla poured money into Bitcoin, it seemed like everyone here was going nuts over it.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Tesla has been accumulating bitcoin since a long time and it's hard to say what would be their average buying price.
May be it can be less than what they have sold for or may be it can be more than that.
But if they are thinking that by selling now they might get the opportunity to buy back lower then it's a huge risk for them.
Currently bitcoin price is holding steady at $22k and if BTC holds well then it might cross $25k soon.
Tesla might miss the boat to buy at a lower price and I think they should have sold above $40k itself to buy back lower.

Yeah, they're both influencing it. Like if Elon does some tweets related to his companies or not as long as it's related to bitcoin, the media will swarm and take that moment of what he said and will publish it almost everywhere.
Good thing that everyone is no longer buying that news and is no longer panicking unlike before because when such news is being reported by the media, too many people panics as soon as they read the headlines.

Crypto may not be in the hands of one person, but that doesn't mean an influential person like Elon Musk can't manipulate the market to his own will. There are many people following Mr. Musk simply because he's rich. You can see how Elon Musk's praise towards Dogecoin had a positive effect over its price. Remember when he criticized Bitcoin's "high energy consumption", causing a short fall in the cryptocurrency's price? If anything he says or does has an effect over the crypto market, then we'd easily know when to buy or when to sell our coins.

So far, Musk's strategy's been working. But it may not last for long if people get tired of him. The company selling 75% of its BTC holdings didn't have a negative effect over the cryptocurrency's price, anyways. Let's just turn the page and focus on "building" to make crypto/Blockchain land a better place. Just my thoughts ;D

Profit and loss are normal in business,  I don't think it's a serious problem. Due to a lack of proof of their bitcoin buy price and bitcoin buying time, we cannot confirm they sold at a loss.

But there is one thing I agree with you here: selling bitcoin at a low price makes many people skeptical of their losses, will create a bad image, Elon's reputation will suffer and he will lose his influence in the crypto market.

My first thought on this weak weak hands but let’s be honest here, Musk is one of the most intelligent people on earth. Surely he's one step ahead of the game here. Maybe he’s calculated the probability that we fall from here & he can buy them all back much cheaper. Maybe he’s telling the truth & TESLA needed cash, hmmmmm.

Yeah! because most likely things like this are hidden from the public and no one really shares it unless they have hidden agenda concerning their moves. Though this is some kind of misfortune for them since they sold it low rather than holding it a little longer to recover their loss, this literally nothing to them compared to their total assets as a company. On the other hand, I consider this publicity a strategy to manipulate the crypto market at some point but people nowadays are wise and decisive, they won't just believe what they said.

I'm on the same motion with you! I think they needed cash which was the most available to solve the issues they had at that point ( I heard they laid off some of them employees ). I also think they are still carrying experiment of holding Bitcoin. Some peeps who have Elon as them Social media influencer must have panicked sell though but did sell of those Bitcoins reduce the price of Bitcoin in anyway ?
No if I can recall vividly.

Fiat currency are debased and losses it value day after day, also backed by the government which we all know are in support of privacy and Bitcoin to an extent. It was a good chance for peeps to stack up those little SATs. If they did great, if they didn't then it's up too them own detriments. Bitcoin is a better investment when bought, and held for long term purpose ( 4- 7 year's interval )

Of course. Elon wouldn't sell without analyzing the market first. He's known to manipulate the public with his tweets, so I'm pretty sure he sold his BTC and cashed out big profits in the process. Since Elon Musk is a wealthy person, he can buy more BTC if he wants to and sell at a later time when the market turns bullish again. He really has nothing to lose. Unfortunately, the ones that will go "rekt" very badly are his followers. Those who usually invest into BTC or DOGE based on what Elon Musk says are basically newcomers into the world of crypto/Blockchain tech. They believe just because a wealthy person like Elon Musk is patronizing DOGE, means that it's a good long-term investment. But that's not really the case.

I think the media has concentrated a lot of attention into Elon Musk himself, greatly affecting (either positively or negatively) crypto prices within the short term. If this keeps up, then Mr. Musk would effectively control the crypto market to his hearts' content. Just my opinion :)