Title: Nassim Nicholas Taleb is a fraud. Post by: nullius on July 29, 2022, 06:40:33 AM https://gist.githubusercontent.com/nullianity/1442cacb7c0937fdb5e1211f3395349d/raw/ead2e9f253abf0dd1984ff7405c703e852df038c/taleb_fraud.jpg
Always verify digital signatures! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215128.msg53635577#msg53635577) I said “signed,” so I signed my words. To extract the PGP-signed statement: Code: exiftool -b -ImageDescription taleb_fraud.jpg > taleb_fraud.asc Please feel free to copy and share—although unfortunately, many services will strip the signed statement from the image metadata. The original text of OP is now moved to Post #2 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408004.msg60648109#post_oop), with my apologies to those whose quote-links are now slightly off. Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: nullius on July 29, 2022, 06:41:09 AM Local rules: Extreme authoritarian censorship, at my whim. :-)
Pre-edit archive: web.archive.org (https://web.archive.org/web/20220730214529/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408004.0). Original text of OP, from 2022-07-29: Transplanted from a reply that I was writing on an old thread elsewhere: This will be the same Taleb who gave credibility to the known scammer and fraudster CSW by appearing on stage with him? I would maybe take his opinions on bitcoin with a I found this thread by searching for information on Taleb—specifically, information about Taleb and Coingeek. The only two posts on this forum’s (ridiculously unreliable) search connecting those two keywords are
Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: bitmover on July 29, 2022, 07:08:37 PM This will be the same Taleb who gave credibility to the known scammer and fraudster CSW by appearing on stage with him? I would maybe take his opinions on bitcoin with a https://nitter.net/pic/orig/media%2FE8vhVe-XIAA3Gx0.jpgThanks for pointing this out. I didn't know Taleb was a BSV fan, I thought he was anti-cryptocurrency. I always respected Taleb opinions, until now. I read all of his books. He is a very intelligent man and I believe bitcoin fits as a glove to most of his theories about investment, specially antifragile and Barbell strategy (https://fourweekmba.com/barbell-strategy-taleb/) (basically having 90% on extremely conservative investments and 10% on extremely aggressive investments, ignoring medium risk). Those strategies worked a lot for me in the past. It was always weird to me the reasons behind his ideas against bitcoin. I don't agree with the reasons he pointed out in his paper “Bitcoin, Currencies, and Fragility" and I never understood why Taleb wrote that. He clearly doesn't know much about the subject, there are a lot of erros and it made little sense to me. BSV have all the problems that he pointed out in that paper. So, as BSV paid him some money, he can promote BSV. Terrible... https://miro.medium.com/max/1400/0*S05Wi7GvTg3_cYbM.png Won't BSV have volatility if he starts promoting it? Just like anywhere, after years building a reputation, anyone can lose that reputation and respect with just one bad decision. Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: nullius on July 29, 2022, 07:51:38 PM Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't know Taleb was a BSV fan, I thought he was anti-cryptocurrency. [...] So, as BSV paid him some money, he can promote BSV. Terrible... To be clear, I have more questions than answers here. I raised this thread primarily as a question. What happened? Why? What is the real story with Taleb and Faketoshi? And why is nobody talking about this, in most of the discussions about Taleb’s attacks on Bitcoin? (Skimming and searching through multiple threads about Taleb, I found only two brief mentions of this—both quoted in OP.) Without spending time I cannot not spare, I can’t seem to find much information on what Taleb was doing there, or why. What is excruciatingly clear: Taleb gave away his own credibility to a cryptocurrency scam—to the worst cryptocurrency scam! And he did it in a way that clearly shows that his anti-Bitcoin arguments are intellectually dishonest. I do not know if or what BSV paid him, or if he is “promoting BSV” in the sense of recommending it as an investment. Please don’t read too much into OP. Of course, I would be interested in information about such questions. I do know that his appearing at the Coingeek conference and hobnobbing with Faketoshi shows Taleb’s credibility, his character, and the nature of his wild smear-attacks against Bitcoin. Taleb appeared at a conference run by a known cryptocurrency scammer, alongside an imposter who claims to be Satoshi Nakamoto. And nobody is talking about this. WTF!? I always respected Taleb opinions, until now. So did I. I agreed with some of his propositions, and disagreed with others. I didn’t so closely follow his work; he is only one public intellectual competing in a crowded space. But I thought that he had some interesting ideas—and yes, he was respectable. I never even imagined that he would be the type to lend his credibility to an imposter running a cryptocurrency scam. It is shocking. Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: bitmover on July 29, 2022, 09:34:26 PM a bit more information about Taleb and BSV:
This is Coingeek the official website Quote CoinGeek Zurich was the most ambitious and wide-ranging conference yet in support of the BSV Blockchain. .... The participation of representatives of big business signaled BSV’s increasing synergy with established enterprise and financial institutions, symbolized by the conference’s Swiss location and the recent founding of Bitcoin Association’s new headquarters in nearby Zug. The confidence of the conference organizers in their mission and message was demonstrated by the bold invitation to well-known Bitcoin critics Professor Nouriel Roubini and Nassim Nicholas Taleb to give keynote speeches – followed by a stimulating discussion with the inventor of Bitcoin, Dr. Craig Wright, and others. https://coingeekconference.com/en/past-conferences/zurich-june-2021 I found a complete presentation to coingeek by taleb here: https://i.imgur.com/hmuq918.png https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLOeBSaq-Ps (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLOeBSaq-Ps) "Does not require complete decentralization" He also supposedly said that" BSV impact could be Bitcoin’s ‘Black Swan’ event, if it avoids BTC’s mistakes ", according to coingeek news website. https://coingeek.com/bsv-impact-could-be-bitcoins-black-swan-event-if-it-avoids-btcs-mistakes/ Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: nullius on July 29, 2022, 10:43:00 PM I am almost beginning to pity Taleb. Doesn’t he realize that giving a keynote for a swindler who claims to be Satoshi Nakamoto makes him look like either a fool, a lunatic, or a liar? What’s next? Will Taleb endorse a psychic medium who claims to be channelling the ghost of Grand Duchess Anastasia (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215128.0)? Will Taleb announce that Uri Geller really can bend spoons with the power of his mind?
It is a good analogy, and it will probably be the subject of an Anastasia-style thread after I gather sufficient information on this. A few decades ago, some credentialed “scientists” suffered severe embarrassment after they endorsed some of Geller’s claims. A quotable new nullianism: Bitcoin needs a James Randi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Randi#Uri_Geller) moment! If and when the public, and especially the intellectual press realize how ridiculous Taleb made himself here, Taleb will be a laughingstock. Thanks for the information, bitmover. I will need to look into this more, a bit later. (Lulz, Youtube videos are inconvenient for me to watch in my high-security setup.) I found a complete presentation to coingeek by taleb here: https://i.imgur.com/hmuq918.png https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLOeBSaq-Ps (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLOeBSaq-Ps) "Does not require complete decentralization" I don’t want to base an argument on one slide here; but pending whenever I get around to watching the video, I must make a general remark: A philosopher examines the unexamined assumptions that form the premises and the framing of arguments. Satoshi invented Bitcoin as a decentralized system, for reasons that can be best understood and interpreted objectively by knowing the history of Cypherpunks, and of prior cryptographic money projects. (Subjectively, the people who most intuitively understand this tend to be those who have been personally harmed by banks and by the “mainstream” financial system.) Now that it’s here, people tend to apply to Bitcoin whatever interpretation they desire. The result is often an intellectual sleight-of-hand. For instance, I was recently disturbed at an argument amongst some security professionals and academic cryptographers which reframes Bitcoin in terms of building a better payment system. Thesis: Cryptocurrency is evil, and it is useless as a payment system, because Bitcoin transactions are irrevocable, and there is no lawful override to freeze money. Rebuttal in “defense” of cryptocurrency: Cryptocurrency transactions can be made revocable, and can even be designed to give governments lawful access to freeze transactions. See, we can have all the benefits of cryptocurrency as a payment system without Bitcoin’s flaw of irrevocable, unstoppable transactions! Oh, and by the way, POS is great. Palm, meet forehead. In the above-depicted slide, Taleb is obviously seeking some objective, “transactional flexibility”, which was not the principal purpose of Bitcoin’s decentralization. (That is putting it charitably; the slide makes it look like Taleb just doesn’t know what he is talking about.) Whatever argument he thereupon raises is irrelevant: He is standing on premises that disagree with Bitcoin’s premises, seeking ends that are not Bitcoin’s ends. He also supposedly said that" BSV impact could be Bitcoin’s ‘Black Swan’ event, if it avoids BTC’s mistakes ", according to coingeek news website. https://coingeek.com/bsv-impact-could-be-bitcoins-black-swan-event-if-it-avoids-btcs-mistakes/ If someone chooses willingly to associate with Coingeek, then I will accept as authoritative Coingeek’s quotes of whatever that person said. So—Taleb really is promoting BSV, in the sense of at least tacitly endorsing BSV. The gravamen here is unmistakable: In that quote, in substantial essence, Taleb claims that BSV has the potential to replace BTC. Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: o_e_l_e_o on July 30, 2022, 11:52:54 AM The only two posts on this forum’s (ridiculously unreliable) search I would suggest using this tool to search instead: Ninjastic.space - BitcoinTalk Post/Address archive + API (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5273824.0)There was some other discussion about Taleb appearing at CoinGeek in the main BSV scamcoin thread here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5216304.msg57105940#msg57105940 To be clear, I have more questions than answers here. I raised this thread primarily as a question. What happened? Why? What is the real story with Taleb and Faketoshi? I looked in to it a bit at the time, but did not find any satisfactory answers beyond that CoinGeek would obviously have paid him handsomely to appear at their conference. As far as I am concerned (and indeed, as far as Taleb himself is concerned (https://nitter.net/nntaleb/status/1236268432905076737)), he is a fraud for appearing alongside CSW and not calling out his lies, and so I didn't waste much more time on it.In the above-depicted slide, Taleb is obviously seeking some objective, “transactional flexibility”, which was not the principal purpose of Bitcoin’s decentralization. The speech which accompanies that slide is no better. He essentially says "I've been trading for 37 years and never had a problem with a centralized custodian, therefore, centralization is fine."Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: ABCbits on July 30, 2022, 12:21:07 PM I only did 15 minutes research/read and found this motto on his website. It's rather ironic since he doesn't shout faketoshi as fraud. As someone who just know him, i can't really respect him although his older article seems interesting.
Quote from: https://fooledbyrandomness.com/ Motto: "If you see fraud and don't shout fraud, you are a fraud". I found a complete presentation to coingeek by taleb here: https://i.imgur.com/hmuq918.png https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLOeBSaq-Ps (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLOeBSaq-Ps) "Does not require complete decentralization" Complete/full decentralization isn't possible anyway, although it doesn't mean people shouldn't strive for decentralization. Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Faketoshi Post by: NotATether on July 30, 2022, 01:25:16 PM The nullster is back.
This is Coingeek the official website Quote The participation of representatives of big business signaled BSVs increasing synergy with established enterprise and financial institutions, symbolized by the conferences Swiss location and the recent founding of Bitcoin Associations new headquarters in nearby Zug. I honestly don't care if institutions adopt use BSV as their fractional-reserve currency, because I know "the bees in the hornet's nest" aka. the governments, the IMF, world bank, etc etc would just head straight for that instead. It's not they give any cryptocurrency any special treatment over another. Title: Re: Nassim Nicholas Taleb is a fraud. Post by: nullius on July 30, 2022, 10:43:22 PM Quote from: https://fooledbyrandomness.com/ Motto: "If you see fraud and don't shout fraud, you are a fraud". Thanks. I am not skilled at making popular-style “memes”, but I think I do well in the style of a glossy magazine ad. Please see the newly-edited OP here, and spread this around: Instead of wasting time with Taleb’s ill-informed arguments against Bitcoin, people should be asking why Taleb, who boasts of his own “ethics” (https://web.archive.org/web/20040502092453/http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/) in shouting about “fraud”, boosted the worst cryptocurrency scam. It is an intellectual scandal. When set against his actions, the words of his motto doth protest too much, methinks. https://gist.githubusercontent.com/nullianity/1442cacb7c0937fdb5e1211f3395349d/raw/ead2e9f253abf0dd1984ff7405c703e852df038c/taleb_fraud.jpg Always verify digital signatures! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215128.msg53635577#msg53635577) I said “signed,” so I signed my words. To extract the PGP-signed statement: Code: exiftool -b -ImageDescription taleb_fraud.jpg > taleb_fraud.asc Please feel free to copy and share—although unfortunately, many services will strip the signed statement from the image metadata. The original text of OP is now moved to Post #2 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5408004.msg60648109#post_oop), with my apologies to those whose quote-links are now slightly off. This sordid scenario rather reminds me of the time that a legend of the academic world frankly admitted to working with others to make a supranational, international government, while lying about it—viz., openly professed to participation in what we would now call a globalist conspiracy. I am reluctant to say who; it was an intellectual giant, to whom Taleb deserves no comparison. I may drop a cite, if Taleb ever challenges me on it—or if anyone ever bets me significant BTC that I just made it up. Further replies to others later. Thanks for the intelligent discussion. |