Bitcoin Forum

On the 5th of August, 2022, bitcoin news. Portuguese Banks Stop using crypto (bitcoin) for exchange in the their local banks. That is the users of bitcoin or the bitcoiners can buy and sell bitcoin and othe crypto currencies in the country. But even though the bitcoiners can not use and exchange bitcoin in the country, they can go to a near by country to do the exchange but it will still affect them in their own country unless they permanently stay in the country. https://news.bitcoin.com/portuguese-banks-close-accounts-of-crypto-exchanges-media-reveals

Weird, i thought this would be nice income revenue for portugal as others are tighting their grip on cryptos. But i guess you have to follow the big guys when the lobbying and peer pressure is just too high.

Portugal's Central Bank hasn't revoked the operating license issued to these crypto exchange firms so that means regular crypto users can still trade bitcoin in these platforms. It seems other local banks are open in accepting deposits from these exchanges so they can still move their funds there.

Not surprising since bank really doesn't have clear stands towards the real score of legitimacy upon transacting crypto to them maybe there government trying to control the full rotation of crypto into their ecosystem that's why banks start to open up this case. But don't worry with that since for sure bitcoin users in that country will find many ways to exchange there bitcoin since there are so many choices available online and they can still exchange BTC to USD so there's no big deal on what banks decisions done with it.

That's interesting. I was under the assumption that Purtugal was trying to be rather crypto-friendly.
An example would be that Bitcoin-based apartment sale earlier this year.


And tax-free cryptocurrency earnings.

That was apparently last updated less than 2 weeks ago.

Doesn't portugal have 50% youth unemployment? (Ages 19-24).

A high percentage of youth in the country may statistically have no job. And no bank account. Bitcoin in portugal could be yet another case of the unbanked demographic adopting crypto as a digital payment option. Due to banks refusing to lower their standards enough to become viable to the lowest entry level customers.

Bank based crypto bans mainly target whales and larger investors. They ban will be ineffective on them, as whales travel enough to get around it.

This doesn't achieve much aside from limiting portugal's financial options and economic growth. The gains of which can be enjoyed by el salvador and others who adopt a more pro bitcoin stance.

It's better to have another source for easier understanding on this news.

Based on Coindesk: Here's Why Portuguese Banks Are Closing Crypto Exchange Accounts
 (https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/08/04/heres-why-portuguese-banks-are-closing-crypto-exchange-accounts/)
The main reason is all about the worry of money laundering or any other criminal acts. And this is not all about people stopping trading or using cryptocurrencies but the same thing happen somewhere in Asia IIRC that a bank, closes the account of an exchange.

It's just the bank closes the bank account of the crypto exchanges that had an account of them.

though countries (government) become crypto happy
banks(economy) have to follow certain laws and policies aswell as safeguard their own risks

it doesnt matter if the destination service is offering beanie babies. gold, crypto or iphones. its what users and the service itself is doing in regards to its utility with the bank

over the last decade we have seen many crypto happy countries still have protective banking systems and here is the ultimate reasons the banks get heavy handed

1. some crypto platform customers deposit funds to the exchange, buy coin, withdraw coin and then claim TO THE BANK that someone hacked the persons bank account and stole funds to then pass to the exchange which red flags the service as a facilitator of criminal acts.

2. bank customer do the obvious 'just under limit' multiple deposits which flag up suspicions of laundering/tax evasion by the bank where as the crypto service does not reciprocally also flag up the deposits they get as suspicious which causes issues that either the bank is doing too much reporting or the service is not reporting enough and the communications between them of lack of sharing data causes issues with regulators that they are not getting like for like SARS from both sides about the customer. thus they get bad notes from regulators

3. tax avoidance claims from the countries treasury where crypto service can be seen as facilitating tax evaders.

thus its not about the crypto(blockchain asset) itself but the malicious stuff some bank customers try to do with their fiat via the platforms of crypto services

..
yep here in the UK years ago my bank was a little off-sh about crypto.
even before finalising a deposit the bank wanted to question the purpose
after a conversation they openly explained its their risk assessment due to alot of users doing charge back schemes and such

they were not accusing me or anyone after all even from my first deposit it was obvious i was not on their radar and im not that sort of person to do that crap. but they were very risk adverse

more recently i was surprised that i still get passed to a team that check for the purpose of the deposit to a well known exchange, and the similar questions were asked questioning to ensure i am who i say i am and i am giving informed consent to send the funds to well known exchanges, due to my bank having alot of fraud(chargeback scams) performed by other users trying to swindle the crypto platforms)
they also informed me its also to ensure some of their customer are not being scammed/blackmailed out of fiat to buy btc to then hand that btc to cyber criminals/hackers

they let my transaction through but even after like 8 years between experiences i thought they would have settled down a bit or put other automated mechanisms in place(though i must say my fiat transfer was alot more then a few months of normal income, so i  can understand their need to double check)

so again its not to do with btc specifically its about malicious people using the banking crypto services to perform criminal acts

Are you sure this is actually what's being said in the news? The news is not about exchanging Bitcoin in the banks. It's not what this is all about. This is about banks closing the accounts of crypto exchanges on the ground that crypto could be used for money laundering.

But I see incoherence here. First, these exchanges are legally operating and approved by no less than the central bank and the regulating authorities, which means that they are all AML-compliant. So why are these banks making decisions that are in effect a contestation against the approval and the issuance of license from the central bank and the country's regulating bodies themselves?

Second, the decision is basically grounded on fear, potential, or possibility. But does fiat money not have the same potential? Is fiat money not being laundered every minute of the day? Have they not checked the figures which says up to trillions in USD are actually laundered every year? That's larger than the entire Bitcoin or even crypto market cap. So why are they not imposing the same decision on fiat if it's this fear that they're taking into consideration?

Your assumption was right, at least until recently.

"The move threatens to tarnish the country’s image as one of Europe’s most crypto-friendly destinations, a haven for bitcoin enthusiasts."

(from the article linked by OP)

There were people from other European countries who had moved there for that reason.

I am afraid this is along the lines of what we have discussed in other threads. The European Union wants to impose KYC for all transactions, of any amount, something for which a draft bill has already been approved, a law is underway, and at least some ATMs are starting to implement. I don't see much future for crypto-friendly countries within the European Union. They are going to want Bitcoin to be as controlled as stock trades and/or bank transfers.

Just spoke to a guy in Portugal. Says no difference for him but it could be that these things take time to show their impact.

Just like any other rando news to come out, clarity will come, with time, but doubt crypto earning freelancers and remote workers need to worry.

It is a decision of several banks that no longer want to do business with crypto exchanges and that is their legitimate right. I am surprised that someone discovered this just now, because it has been happening since the beginning of this year (maybe even earlier) and has nothing to do with any decisions of the Portuguese government and their regulatory agencies. Doesn't anyone remember all those banks in various parts of the world that did the same thing?

Crypto exchanges will simply find other banks where they will open their accounts, and given that Portugal is in the EU and the Eurozone, nothing important will change for their clients.

At present it seems to only be affecting the bank accounts of companies tied into crypto exchanges. It is bad for the Portuguese economy because those customers will just buy online from other European countries. It's good there is no restriction currently on the customer level, but it's a bad omen for this to happen out of the blue. There must be some government level pressure and this could be a signal of further banning in future. Let's hope all existing customer crypto is safe.

Going to nearby country to sell BTC? You mean, like, literally go abroad just to perform a transaction? I think it's not a viable solution at all, as it requires too much time and is probably costly. But from the article it seems like they're closing business accounts (accounts of exchanges, not of customers).
I wonder what's causing this new policy... If it's KYC that's enforced by some law, then why can't an exchange require KYC and easily open an account? Or would that lead to such a significant shrinking of customers that it's not worth it?
I'm sorry that the companies will seek other countries to open accounts, as that means money flowing out of the Portugese economy. I hope the situation will be fixed.

The true news is about the closing of bank account connected with cryptocurrency exchanges. These cryptocurrency exchanges are provided with licence to function in the country. By the time banks were also given the rights to close the exchange accounts if required. The banks now fear that we might find difficulty as it can help with money laundering. This is the reason why bank accounts were closed.

Isn't ridiculous that you can go nearby country to sell your Bitcoin but you can't sell Portugal? But they want to prevent money laundering. Isn't that a suicide le decision? It's just nonsense, banks not getting themselves what they are doing. Still can money Laundering and still can use Bitcoin. But the bank will lose revenue. The summary is Bank don't like a decentralized ecosystem where they don't have control over that.

I've remembered it somehow in Asia that or in near part of it that a bank closed an exchange account, maybe that's in India.

Yeah, it's their right to close those account if it's from the exchanges as they just want to secure their business as well and can't be sure that the money deposited on them is from money laundering.

Nothing new. As usual, they always hide behind similar formulations.
For some reason, until August 5, this didn't prevent portuguese banks from making money on this.


Because there is little truth in what is said in public. Portuguese Banks wanted to tell us a "fairy tale", hiding the true reasons for their decision, they did it. It doesn't really matter what "sauce" they serve it with.

At initial, the new policy is going to affect those Bitcoiners and indigens who relay their investment in cryptocurrency but as time goes on, they will figure out how to go about their crypto endeavors.
  It was a bit difficult for me when the CBN (Central bank of Nigeria) also Ban every transaction that concerns cryptocurrency in Nigeria Bank (https://www.cbn.gov.ng › CCDPDF
Cryptocurrency Trading: CBN Orders Banks To Close Operating). I think the crypto traders in Portuguese will figure a solution out. I don't know but I think P2P can be a solution for them at this moment.

At the beginning users will experience some difficulty. Within a short the users will find a way to make use of the cryptocurrencies. The sad part people from near countries used to reach Portuguese for the purpose of trading their cryptocurrency as it is found crypto friendly. Now these people might experience a situation to move to the near countries for the same purpose.

The level of naiveness of the Feds about cryptocurrency is so surprising.
After I saw this news, I did some search about the possible reason why a country that once support crypto trading and exchanging could go against and I found out that they stopped the use of crypto because of the fear of potential money laundering.

You misunderstood, the policy has not changed at all - the banks have changed their attitude towards cryptocurrencies because it is obviously a better option for them than implementing additional mechanisms to fight money laundering. Banks, like you and I, have the right to choose whether to do business with someone or not - you can't force someone to do something just because you think it's right.

In addition, Bitcoin should strive for decentralization when it comes to trading, not relying on banks that are part of the problem.

Banks cannot stop the usage of bitcoin, they stopped their services to exchange so users can't be able to convert their fiat to cryptocurrency and vice versa, it happened in many countries then if exchanges fight for it then such attrocities from banks can also be reverted in certain cases. Banks trying to supress the cryptocurrency but at some point it will turn against them.

Yeah, a similar thing happened in my country too, there is currently a ban by the CBN that banks should not process or facilitate transactions that are related to cryptocurrency, direct from crypto exchanges. Having said that, since that very ban here, nothing much has changed, it hasn't reduced or affected the number of people that use crypto. We can't compel the banks to act in our favor cause we are crypto enthusiasts, good thing is we already know they can come up with changes like this spontaneously, but there will be alternatives, and nothing much will change in Portugal as a result of this.

Banks are bound by the government.
As the government cannot control the Bitcoins and cannot impose tax on it, so yes they given guidelines to the bank to stop transactions based on cryptos.
Nevertheless due to the decentralised nature of Bitcoins, we can easily to Bitcoin transactions, without the government or the banks.
People of Portugal can easily do P2P deals in order to buy or sell Bitcoins and in this way they will also be saved from exchange and bank fees.

So the freelance guys who are depending on their salary through cryptos are safe and the title of this thread is just simply misleading. Well, that's really not a surprise because as we know, frauds and scams are common in the crypto industry that's why we have always some people who are always posting some awareness on how to prevent yourself from getting scammed. this community really gives people legit information when it comes to cryptocurrencies and anything like it, after this is where you can get legit information on things that are related to crypto because when someone gets confused with the title of his thread, there's always someone who corrected him and will tell the others about the real news.

You're right though still there are alternatives for the people who wants to trade their cryptocurrency for fiat but this ban is mostly for stopping the new people from entering into the market so as a crypto community and also the exchanges should fight for it if the banks starts to ban such restrictions when there is no such ban from the government side.

I feel like the move to restrict crypto transactions is against the policies of the country. According to the article from 2 months ago, they were planning to tax cryptocurrencies. You can't tax something that you're trying to ban, so IMO there are no plans to ban it and the bank is overreacting to the threat of inflation. They're afraid people will drop fiat and go to safer assets.


https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/05/16/portugal-makes-u-turn-on-cryptocurrency-tax/

It is true that banks have no capability to stop using crypto. In this decentralized market, anyone can use and take the advantage of crypto. Banks can restrict it on the purpose of legal using of it. However, obviously it is not good news for crypto lovers.

Not sure why they switched back to not using crypto, but it can't be due to the price drop. I gusess it could be due to some government regulations demending more control and transparency. I just don't know why they then "adopted" crypto in the first place. Strange decision.

I don't have much information about this country and all I know about Portugal is what everyone can see on the internet on different websites, but regarding stopping the usage of bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in Portugal I can say that's not good for them because if they close the cryptocurrency-related bank accounts there will still d4mand between people to buy and sell cryptocurrencies while they cannot use the legal exchanges and they will try to find underground markets while they can be scammed and this cannot be good for both the people and the government of Portugal.

There is nothing strange. Banks always have a fear that cryptocurrency usage could take the place of them. Even some statistics showed a big loss of revenue for the banking sector from transaction fee. Possibly this is the prime reason according to me, but they'll indicate money laundering and other transaction support as the reason for closure of bank accounts of few exchanges operating within the country.

These governments can't decide what they want to do with cryptocurrencies and this is making them look like they don't have a strong opinion, can't and shouldn't lead countries if they change their minds every year. The EU wanted to be crypto-friendly but then someone scared politicians by telling them mining could take too much electricity and it's not green enough so now they're putting pressure on banks to decrease the number of active crypto users.
Portugal is not the first and not the last here. 2 years ago Russia was supposed to allow for cryptocurrency exchange, then they were planning to ban it because they wanted to start their centralized crypto, then they wanted countries to avoid sanctions by paying them in cryptocurrencies and then they banned it. India also can't decide if they want to allow it or ban it. They're all one big joke to me.

Well I guess that the Portugese cryptonians must look for other options like the P2P. I don't know about mobile payment providers that isn't connected to the bank though, but that could be the other option or just simply order a crypto debit card or so.

My own assumption is that their banks want control of our funds. The problem is that they can't control because blockchain cannot be controlled unless it was built for centralization.

Thank you for clarifying this.

I’m a bit surprised to hear this going out of Portugal. From everything that I’ve ever heard of Portugal is that it’s a very progressive country, so just surprised to seen them putting limitations like this on bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Hopefully this is more of a short term deal.

When government fail in carrying out their function they tend to look for avenues to get excuses. And the crypto space have been one of their main excuse targets. The government would always give many reasons why their decision is for the best interest of the masses. All the problems they always claim that the ban of crypto currency would end always increase after the ban because fiat even creates more problems than crypto. But it would only take time before the truth would be unveiled. The populace would later know that their main enemy is the government and not Bitcoin.

Any point of centralization will always be used to harass those which use it, centralized exchanges while practical are a weakness of this market, banks can decide if they want to deal with them or not and even if we do not like it this is their right, also if they did this is because they think they can afford it, after all banks are managed by very pragmatic people, if the revenue they would stand to lose was huge most likely they would not have done something like this, but since they believe otherwise they took this decision.

No, it doens't mean that.
You can be regulated you can claim to be AML compliant but you can do a lot of shit like everyone is doing, not just cryptos, all companies that are involved in financial transactions will at one point break at least once, when the pile of the money goes too high there is always the temptation of getting more for yourself.


What's naive is to make a whole mess of the government, the fiscal authority, the parliament that enacts laws and throws in a private bank that can and is allowed to refuse any client they don't want. There is no such thing as this country did this, there are different mechanisms set in place at different levels and none at this point has issued any ban or restriction on bitcoin.

But still, I wonder what happened that triggered different banks to act like this in a short time right now, they haven't done anything like this in the past and it's not like suddenly they are over runner with accounts and money during this bear season, so probably something really shady happened with one or more local exchanges, if we see arrest after this now for money laundering and tax evasion on a different level, meaning millions,  that's probably the cause, at least this is what I'm things about.

There are legal AML requirements and procedures and these exchanges complied with them. Such is one of the reasons why they successfully obtained license from no less than the central bank. Of course, it doesn't mean that since they are AML-compliant there's zero laundering happening on their platforms. The same is true with the banks. They're also AML-compliant and they, too, are central bank-licensed, but it doesn't mean that there are no laundering activities happening in their system. That's why there's constant coordination with authorities in terms of suspicious transactions.