Bitcoin Forum

This is not to preach lawlessness, yet the fact remains that there are many countries' governments that are less informed about Bitcoin and the benefits therein, thereby depriving their citizens of these benefits. But the good part is that some of these countries do not ban the accessibility and domains of crypto wallets and exchanges, which makes it possible for anyone to disregard the government and use Bitcoin, but carefully.

Taking Nigeria as an example, the most suggested approach is through P2P, it is working well, but I read that many have had their bank accounts banned, especially when there is a huge inflow, or the amount becomes much in its accumulation with time without a good explanation for it.

What are your suggestions for me and other beginners/users that are in this condition but want to participate in the technology and benefits that Bitcoin brings over the banks and government interference?

In Nigeria, as long as you do not take bitcoin and other crypto P2P trading towards business level, you are fine. In my opinion.

Bitcoin is implicitly banned in Nigeria, because the government are mute about it while only CBN is against it. The people that are still turning it to business means can find their bank account blocked, but bitcoin is not illegal to be traded among people in Nigeria.

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There are some countries like China, two to four countries in white African countries (the Northern Africans) and some other countries in the world, which totalled 14 countries as at last year that totally banned bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies. But China makes it known that bitcoin can not be totally banned because of its decentralized design. But it would have been better if bitcoin is not banned in these countries.

Well I am from a country that has banned Crypto-currency as a whole so I can probably tell you from experience how I do it, but first you have to understand that not even the government can stop the complete usage of Crypto-currency amongst its citizens
Firstly
#Avoid buying using crypto-currency on government affiliates even if there is an option to do so.

#only deal in Crypto-currency with fellow crypto enthusiast.

#Be careful on centralized exchange: there were rumors that government creates fake accounts to track people who are involved in crypto-currency. I rather prefer using peer to peer that involves the use of privately own wallet.

Govt/country can ban an exchange, ban a centralize (custodial) wallet but they can't ban your non custodial wallet of course. As long as you are using a non custodial wallet, there's nothing can country/govt do.
I'm from a country where any kind of crypto activities is illegal but still I'm investing in crypto specially in bitcoin. If you are using p2p, you can use mobile banking too. Don’t you have such option in Nigeria?

How you can trade Bitcoin safely without any issues with banks
.Ensure you don't use any crypto related words while making payments in fiat currency to buy Bitcoin both you and your trading partner.
.Ensure your transaction doesn't involve cents/kobo let it be in a round figure when during transfers.
.When you go to the bank to do some transaction never disclose to them that your involved with Cryptocurrency trading because in some cases they might ask you what you do for a living or your source of income.

Speaking about Nigeria, you can still buy and sell bitcoins in Nigeria safely even with the ban still in place, all the user have to do is take some precautions during sending money and also letting those who will be sending you money take the same precaution.

And such precaution is ~ to not include any pointer to Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies in your reference box while sending money or paying for crypto services, and also let those who are sending money to you for your crypto services take the same precaution.
Once you are able to keep to this rule, I believe you are safe to transact in bitcoin without government or banks interfering.

They can ban the usage, the operations of exchanges in their countries but they have no full control over the individuals that will keep on transacting with the use of bitcoin.
We can have that thing about banning that they're all just talks because they can't really enforce that to the people as there are countries that banned bitcoin yet, many still can trade on P2P exchanges and can also gain access to the centralized exchanges through virtual private networks.

No government can ban Bitcoin, they can only ban themselves from the network. In Nigeria as a case study, the government restricts banks from engaging in crypto transactions, so you can not directly fund an exchange account from your bank account. But if you were to trade directly with anyone, the bank would not know the source of the funds received.

Accounts can be suspected and restricted if it suddenly starts receiving huge inflow of cash, not necessarily related to Bitcoin. If you trade P2P, tracing the source of the funds would be through thorough investigations, or if it was included in the transaction details.

• Use self custody as much as possible,
• Only trade with decentralization, P2P platforms,
• If you're in a really hostile country to Bitcoin, then it might be advisable to relocate, if that's an option,
• Document all your transactions and the source, should you ever need to prove you didn't do anything illegal.

You are saying that your government has banned cryptocurrencies, but there are still government affiliates that accept crypto? That sounds unlikely to me. What country are you from and what government affiliates are accepting crypto?

This same question has come across this community severally, but nevertheless any questions deserve an answer to it. If your country doesn't accept cryptocurrency and especially bitcoin theirs every tendency that you will make use bitcoin in such country and especially when you are trader. because from my view many countries has not legalised cryptocurrency and especially bitcoin as legal tender but still it operate successfully with bitcoiners with any problem, if you trade on your house you not any issues with government

Using cryptocurrency in Nigeria is not very much welcomed but trading it is a different story. As much as you ain't doing anything illegal with it, your good. A crypto trader won a case against a government agency some months ago by providing all the necessary evidence to ensure his earnings were legitimate.

Speaking of which, where most of the issues come up wth bakns and traces is in the feedback on a successful trade. The feedback you give is where the problem comes from and the CBN in particular aren't in support, being the issuers of fiat currency and the banks are a direct subordinate to the CBN.

Bitcoin was created to become a decentralized digital currency, there is no third-party need and even the government can't stop or interfere with Bitcoin.
So purchasing is also made on decentralized exchange and this becomes possible on P2P exchange which you can buy and sell Bitcoin in your country.  You can't use it publicly in your country as a currency like in a coffee shop or having Bitcoin ATM machines but you can invest or trade Bitcoin using decentralized platforms.

• Hodl-hodl (https://hodlhodl.com/)
• Bisq.network (https://bisq.network/)

Are the most common p2p exchange where you can buy Bitcoin even though it's banned in your country.

Just buy a little by little and don't use a big cash inflow.

If you don't want problems with your bank account, then trade for cash or use payment methods that won't enforce your country's crypto ban - PayPal, Venmo, foreign banks.  Trade only with people who have good reputation, otherwise you might get scammed and police won't help you, and be wary that undercover cops could be posing as traders. And don't talk about Bitcoin with anyone, not your friends or your family, because words travel far and it can attract law enforcement.

This is pretty risky if you are going to deal with someone in p2p exchange and maybe one of them is government anytime they can seize.

I think if you want to withdraw them safely into your bank without worrying about Bitcoin being banned convert them into USD there are some sites that can do that but you need to have accounts like skrill, Neteller, Payoneer, or any digital currencies account where you can able to receive USD after you convert Crypto.
The one who can help you achieve that thing is this https://www.bestchange.com/ I don't how these users above who promote don't mention it.

After you convert them you can now withdraw them and convert USD to your local currency. Just make sure if you find an exchange in bestchange deal only to exchanges that do not sell private information and don't require KYC.

To use Bitcoin, you must have a non custodial wallet. Don't use custodial wallet because if you don't own keys, you don't own any coin.

In countries where Bitcoin exchanges to fiat currency is illegal, you will have troubles if your bank transfer for such crypto trade contains information about what you are trading.

However, you can use Peer-to-Peer trading platforms and they will encrypted the information of your trades. When you make a bank transfer, you only have to leave a code for the trade, without details of what that trade is for. It is good to use but if government do something seriously to restrict that platform, and if they give up customer information, trading record to government, you might be in troubles.

Non custodial wallets, and if somehow governments ban it, use vpn or something. Regarding accumulating it, i don't recommend it to purchase it as your details might surface, better earn through freelance work like bounties, posting on sites like hive.blog - you could relatively go unknown this way.

There is a big difference between a bank banning bitcoin usage and the government banning bitcoin. Correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't found any evidence saying bitcoin is banned in Nigeria, there is only a "statement" by the central bank saying it is which doesn't make it a law. So all it takes to solve the problem is to not directly use the banks. P2P trade only works if you actually send money to the other individual not through some platform like localbitcoins or the centralized binance nonsense.

Turning it into a business might not even be the major issue because many people are doing business successfully with it, but not with a huge amount. Those that are being traced and have their accounts banned had huge inflows whether business or not. A case study is a friend of a relative that used Bitcoin to receive payment from abroad instead of bank transfer. He became a victim, though the case is in court.

Don't say that, they will make accessibility frustrating for the citizens. First, they will ensure that android and iOS do not list them as their available apps in addition to the domain banning. The VPN will of course help but I am sure that many will not go through that stress but back out.


Both of you have nailed it best! These are good points, some of the hidden ones that I had thought of as the most viable alternative solutions to P2P that are not often mentioned. Taking it through another route might be a very good one. Taking Skrill as an example, I could fund my dollar bank account directly with it using a low fee with any huge volume provided by earnings is legit.

Cryptocurrency options in government affiliates may be just a trap for those crypto users so that the government knows who is using crypto. Governments that implement this method certainly have the goal of targeting taxes for those who deal with crypto directly.

Dealing with fellow crypto fans is the best way because both are involved in the crypto world and there are no restrictions between crypto fans. it will be a thriving community and make crypto a means of P2P between users, without government interference.

Centralized exchanges that are legalized by the government will certainly have full access to these exchanges and the data of every crypto user will be known to all. this is the government's way of implementing every policy related to taxation so that those users of a centralized exchange can pay taxes. and as a result, the fees used by centralized exchanges will be higher big.

Living in a country where bitcoin is completely banned will be very difficult, but that doesn't mean there aren't other ways to use bitcoin. As the times progressed, crypto began to be known and developed by every country. Regulations are also set as flexible as possible so that they can run side by side with Fiat. Not only looking at the negative side of cryptocurrencies but also looking at the negative side and uses of crypto which will help in developing better payment technologies.

You have to distinguish between "using Bitcoin" and "buying Bitcoin". To use Bitcoin, all you need is internet access. To avoid tracking, it's best if you're not behind a Great Firewall and can for instance use Tails (https://tails.boum.org/). It runs through the Tor network and comes with Electrum pre-installed. As long as you can use Tor, you can use Bitcoin. If you can't use Tor, you may be able to use Tor Bridges (https://bridges.torproject.org/) or (as a last resort) use a VPN.

I can't really advice on how to buy Bitcoin, P2P options will vary per country. It's risky though: people have been robbed this way.

Even in countries where Bitcoin isn't banned, any "huge inflow" raises questions from a bank.

Nigeria, for seeing him post on Nigerian local board.

Maybe you should read carefully the regulations from the government regarding Bitcoin, what is prohibited for example using it as a means of payment and so on.
My country only prohibits Bitcoin as a means of payment, meaning that payment transactions with Bitcoin are illegal but I can still have it as a digital asset.
My advice is don't try to violate government regulations, even though having bitcoins can be done without being caught by the government and can make transactions outside of your country because of course the prohibition regulations only cover your country.

Government can as well create a fake account on decentralized exchanges as long as they are paying into your bank account for them to know you. The reason not to use a centralized exchange is because they are centralized, the exchange have control over your coins, depriving privacy and making it not to be possible. Also it is very easy for the government of a country to ban a centralized exchange if compared to a decentralized exchange.

Mobile banking? Commerical banks have mobile banking as well. Which mobile banking are you talking about? Those that deals with e-wallet that are not commerical banks? There is a lot of options in Nigeria. But the use of bitcoin is allowed in Nigeria, only CBN banned it, but Nigerians turned to P2P and no issue.

Let me be sincere about this, Nigerians are making use of centralized P2P successfully. But we know that the centralized exchanges can freeze their customer's fund or block their account due to one reason or the other, but on decentralized exchange, you still have the full control.

If the government could go the extra mile for setting affiliates and traps because of crypto, then it must have been a total ban in the country. This is not in my case. Also, if that is targeted towards tax evaders, I guess it is lame because the best way I believe they can legitimately tax a risky asset like crypto is when a transaction from it is completed through the conversion of crypto to the currency of the country using the bank.

He might not know what we are discussing here because the issue of transacting with banks and mobile banking apps is just the same thing.

The countries that banned Cryptocurrencies mostly bitcoin have little knowledge or not at all. They banned it with the ignorant knowledge on it. Even some of those countries that banned bitcoin uses bitcoin more than some of the countries that adopt bitcoin. Nigeria as a case study. The uses of bitcoin in Nigeria is very large that even the government know about it but they can not do anything against it. They only stopped their agents (banks) to stopped the transaction process but they can't stop p2p payment and trading process.

My suggestion is that, if your country has banned bitcoin and you are interested to use bitcoin, it is very simple. Just go to Binance, Remitano or any other web or app that vendors are buying and selling BTC. There you can buy and use it to trade or if that option is not good for you, definitely there are people in your country that have bitcoin locate them and ask them to show you road.

Since I come from a nation (Nigeria) where all forms of cryptocurrency have been abolished, I can probably speak from personal experience when I tell you how I do it. However, you must first realize that not even the government can prevent its citizens from using cryptocurrency completely. Only two pieces of advice come to mind: Don't use cryptocurrency to make purchases from government agencies, even if you have the ability to do so, and only exchange cryptocurrency with other cryptocurrency devotees.

Ideas posted is already good and also try to create some connections where you can do p2p trades to other people who can convert your bitcoin into fiat so that it will be more easier for you to exchange your bitcoin without worrying the government intervention. Finding trusted p2p traders is always choose the best and be vigilant since we already know to many scammers around.

If we are taking Nigeria as a case study, I think we can begin to consider to remove Nigeria from the case study because the government of Nigeria is realising their mistakes and trying to please their citizens.
Before now they didn't outrightly ban bitcoin but they ordered banks not to process transactions relating to bitcoin and to freeze any accounts involving cryptocurrency. Banks had to strictly comply to it, but we were still fine in P2P because we learnt not to include anything relating to crypto or bitcoin in the transaction narrations and it worked.

But while the ban is on cryptocurrency billboards are seen in the country, binance sponsoring events in the country and currently the government what's to partner with Binance. We will see the end.

I've seen through some posts here that a number of businesses in your country are actually accepting Bitcoin. I remember there was a school, a store, and a gasoline station that accept Bitcoin. So it's probably not very difficult in your case to make use of Bitcoin as a form of payment.

If it isn't possible in your specific locality, then I guess it is enough to keep Bitcoin as a way to store your wealth knowing that Naira has been fast losing a lot of value. You could also make use of Bitcoin for international remittance. It must save you a lot.

When we talk about ban , it means that transactions between bank and crypto exchange will be stopped. This means that you will unable to use your local currency for buying bitcoin and if you have hold bitcoin in your wallet then you will not get cash

Banks will look for the source of the funds. The origin, meaning where does the money come from. If they have banned or have a negative stance towards bitcoin, anything that originates from crypto exchanges, gambling platforms, or any other sites crypto-related will not be accepted. The funds will be sent back or you will get your bank account frozen. It's quite clear what you have to do. Don't use any such centralized platforms to send money to your Nigerian bank account.

Fiat transactions between two Nigerians aren't banned. An individual deposits money into your bank account and you send the coins to their BTC address. The bank can't possibly know the reason for that transaction. Make sure the other party doesn't mention bitcoin or crypto as a reason for the payment. That's it. If you want to avoid banks altogether, meet the other person face to face and carry out the exchange that way. That can create other troubles like the possibility to get robbed or you are given fake bills, but there are ways around that. Meeting in public places during the day and having a friend with you for example. Meeting up in front of the other party's bank, so you can watch them withdraw money from an ATM or the bank counter. That way you know the bills aren't counterfeit. 

If you are buying and selling or accessing bitcoin in anyway when your country banned it is a violation of the laws, whether it is okay or what stand we have to take are secondary so first realize that you are violating the laws and be ready to face the consequences.

While you are using bank accounts for buying and selling even via p2p platform still the bank can track the transaction, if there is any transaction has been done with you by someone who is having records of crypto trading then they can connect the dots and banks may ask for source of this transaction when you can't able to provide the source the account will be on hold and that is how these things are happening.

So what is the best way is doing p2p but with someone you know nearby and make sure they don't have any crypto records under their accounts.

Here in India, for couple years central bank banned crypto, we used to do p2p either on online platforms or offline with close friend. Got scammed once as well for about $150.

if your country ban Bitcoin, this mean you're also break the law of your country and this can bring you to jail.

I know Bitcoin is immune against government and centralized entity since you can send, buy or sell Bitcoin by using P2P or decentralized exchange. But you should accept the risk since you're somewhat do illegal stuff in your country.

IMO you should have a high level of privacy and using mixer to hide it.

Not advocating for lawlessness, but perhaps you were affected by a decree and were not given ample time to do what you needed to do.  One idea is to use or set up a VPN service to "hide" your location since it can connect you to another country, giving the appearance you are there while not actually being in that country physically.

Yes My country is also one of them.
Let me tell you what I do to avoid any future problem.

Mostly I use Binance's P2P Platform to buy or sell my crypto assets.
These are some precautions which I always follow.

1. When I suppose to trade on P2P Platform. I use my bank account details. And I use account for sudden trade and after the trade I remove my bank account details as soon as possible.

2. I do not make biggest trade. I only made little amount trades. Because when I trade in big amount the government institutions will detect and can catch anytime.
So made little trades and stay safe.

3. I never forget to use VPN.

These some precautions can safe us from biggest problems.

I'm interested in this because I heard a friend mention these digital accounts Neteller and Payoneer, but I don't know anything about them, so I assumed it was like other decentralized exchanges because it might require KYC before having full access to operate the accounts.
As a result, I would appreciate more information about these two digital accounts.

I think the best way to transact BTC in a country that prohibited its transaction is to avoid using any p2p that requires any submission of IDs that tells your location. While Binance is independent, avoid transacting in large amounts that would cause some doubts on your local bank. In addition, avoid any purchase that would alert the government- in other words, anything that the government is affiliated with, avoid them.

For added protection, you may also use VPNs or IP proxies whenever you make and create transactions. While your government may prohibit its transactions, this is what BTC was made for- financial freedom in your transactions.

One thing about peer to peer trading is that you need to be sure of who you are trading with if you are doing it physically probably using friend of friends or someone you contacted online. I will always advice people to use an exchange to run there p2e trading since it cam be challenging to see someone you can sell your Bitcoin to with since trust.

Centralized Exchanges have strict rules that will be enforced if during a p2e trade, the buyer do not credit the seller which can end up on blocking of the account. It is very challenging trading coins in a country where Bitcoin is ban and users finding other alternatives can be very challenging.

Well said, I would advise that P2P is one of the greatest advantage you all have and so you should stick with it.
Despite this ban I also read that Nigerians are one of the core country that interact with Crypto currency showing that this is of more help to the society and alot people have made fortunes from it and so there's no cause to stop. It's also very shameful that the government has caused more harm than good with this act.

It was p2p exchange, it's just that — buyer credited the money >> I confirmed I received the money (so BTC was released to him through exchange) >> few days after buyer chargebacked the amount.

I didn't go to police out of fear that crypto is banned and they won't help me.

Not transacting with a big amount is a very good plus, with this, they can't detect you as long as you are using P2P. However, I don't need to use VPN in my case, because they don't have access to the database of Binance, which is the exchange I use and they have not totally banned the holding of crypto in my country, so I can own it.

What baffles me is the extent to which you go always deleting your account details. To me, I believe it is unnecessary because they cannot locate your details from your exchanges. Never! These exchanges are also aware of the government's problems and antics.

This is painful, I have not experienced what you are talking about but it is quite possible. You should have reported to your exchange with proof, I am sure they would help by contacting the person. Else, they would not let such individuals use their service again. The fault was from your bank or the person's bank, they reversed the payment for the transaction that has been executed.

I know these payment gateways, but they are not decentralized as you think. I would even prefer to go for Skrill or Perfectmoney if I want to use such services. Only that I will need to part ways with some higher charges.

With the EU trying to regulate crypto at this point.. Can they go after payments to a Ledger device?
Transactions from my local bank to the device. I consider using paypal for this. I'm also not planning on withdrawing crypto profit back to the bank. It is a long term investment.

At my local bank, there is staff approving or denying any transaction we make. I have purchased a Ledger nano x but I have not deposited money on it yet.
I'm reading into that now, and also about how to secure my account the best I can. I am planning on never typing the seed phrase on my laptop, so that malware (which I have a virus scanner for) can never find my seed phrase with a key logger.

It's pretty challenging for a tech noob to invest in crypto in a completely safe way. As my assets grow, I consider buying a laptop just for crypto so it is not prone to getting hacked.

This doesn’t really fall under the country where bitcoin is banned type situation, since bitcoin is not banned in the EU. Regulation falls on a per country basis, but is building-up to have a common set of rules there. To be brief:

-   I figure you are talking about buying bitcoin from within from Ledger Live, which really hooks you up to a KYC service provider (MoonPay, Coinify, BTC Direct). You can use them, or any other Exchange service (the fact that some are included in Ledger Live is to facilitate things, but there may be better options).

-   Not sure what you mean by "go after payments". In the EU bitcoin is not banned, so there is no going after you in that sense(*). There is the "going after you" from a tax perspective, which is different per country. Generally speaking, buying BTC and holding it will not render tax payments, but the specifics need to be seen in relation to your specific country.

If you want to get more specific, it would be best if you open a new thread and formulate all the questions you want there iteratively (due to your context being of a different nature than that treated on this thread).

(*) Some banks do have issues with payments to/from certain Exchanges for some people. That is something again to look into in relation to your specific country, although not something trivial to determine (it’s not generally only an issue related to the pair <bank,Exchange>, but also to the person himself).

If your country  are strictly against people who use bitcoin for business you have to be careful and not to make bitcoin bitcoin public the way you spend it. Just get a p2p exchange where you can do your buying and selling.  If you must use bitcoin in business let it be with people who use bitcoin so that you won't fall victim to your government.

I've always said that crypto needs more regulations, not banning, so there is nothing to worry yourself about when you are legit with your crypto dealings. However, it is a good step you are taking to secure your crypto, especially if they are many, but you should let the EU fully come with their regulations before knowing what to do. There are regulations that will not even stress you at all, but they might want to look for more ways to tax you guys.

Just wait for it before planning your way around it.

The P2P is the most suggested method in this regard, so it is not new. Yet, I appreciate the business aspect, and I have been looking into it. My main issue for this topic wasn't for small money, but for big money and how I would not get trapped in the web of this government palaver. I will discuss opinions with those in that situation in my country. Thanks!

I don't expect that more regulation will make the government more successful in centralizing crypto users. You can expect some reasonable rules like a ban on the use of crypto as a means of payment, but you certainly wouldn't expect the government to impose a tax on your crypto holdings instead of a per-transaction tax on exchanges.

Another option I'm thinking of in your situation is moving to a country that doesn't ban cryptocurrencies and their use as a means of payment. You're talking about big amount, so you need to consider every aspect so that you don't get stuck and continue to be on the brink.

This is according to my personal experience,
when I withdraw a large enough amount of money,
I withdraw the money not to a bank account

because I have more than one bank account, so I distribute withdrawals to all accounts in a not too large amount,

so the bank will not be suspicious because in each account there is no balance that suddenly jumps high,

that's the way I've been using it so far.

The OP took the case in a country where crypto is completely banned, so what exactly are crypto laws in your country? You said "withdraw" which I understand it came from the exchange. If the crypto exchange is legal in your country, then you don't have to worry that much even if you withdraw a large amount. After all, banks have different considerations than you about large transactions that could be considered suspicious.

You can use a crypto wallet to use bitcoins in banned countries, which is what I do. Bitcoin transactions are illegal in my country either. I use crypto wallet for bitcoin transactions. There is no fear of transaction. You can make as many transactions as you want. For that no one will monitor your account like a bank. And you don't have to depend on any third person. Which I think is very easy and safe to transact in crypto wallet.And it can be used even in prohibited countries.

A list of companies has entirely or partially stopped customer service in Russia and Belarus.
https://medium.com/@apirone/bans-of-crypto-and-payment-forwarding-43471f2dca6

and a short manual on what is Crypto payment Forwarding. I hope it will help you.

You're actually saying by peer to peer transaction which a Satoshi's own vision and that's why Bitcoin isn't depend on any third entity, but you're not entirely correct here. Crypto wallet has many vary, it could be a custodial wallet, non custodial wallet, run in your own node, run in someone server etc. If you're using a wallet that run in someone server or using custodial wallet, your Bitcoin can still being monitored since they have a way to look your transaction and the balance.

Then you should hold it more and try to withdraw it when you start visiting other country that does not ban crypto wherein they have lots of legit exchanges that are reliable. Otherwise, if you insist to use your crypto in your own country, then you might be investigated about it and might be charge for not abiding with the law.

First if you are. from a country where bitcoin is banner restricted, you will have to know how to deal with the asset since cryptocurrency can not be banned due to its decentralized nature so all you need to do is to apply caution to whatever your dealings are with such assets, I still remember when there was one or two complains of fake finance accounts from government agents tracking individual cryptic currency dealing on that exchange it I don't know how rampant that wave is now since traders already know they tricks and again since Bitcoin is decentralized, you can still engage in it without any third party involvement as long as you know how to avoid the red lights that can flag your accounts.