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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: casinotester0001 on September 05, 2022, 10:52:38 AM



Title: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: casinotester0001 on September 05, 2022, 10:52:38 AM
Just read this:

By lately some people have been claiming that "Bitcoin's power consumption is a central point of failure - someone can just switch off the electricity and all miners stop". And in particular "Bitcoin will not survive the coming winter". Both of these are wrong.

NotATether is right, look here:

Heating My Home with Crypto Mining
https://medium.com/swlh/heating-my-home-with-crypto-mining-137d2a29b62a (https://medium.com/swlh/heating-my-home-with-crypto-mining-137d2a29b62a)
It may be the greenest kind of heat around

Is crypto mining the next home heating trend?
https://capital.com/is-crypto-mining-the-next-home-heating-trend
 (https://capital.com/is-crypto-mining-the-next-home-heating-trend)
HOW TO HEAT YOUR HOME WITH BITCOIN MINING
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/how-to-heat-your-home-with-bitcoin-mining (https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/how-to-heat-your-home-with-bitcoin-mining)

EDIT:
Repurposing Bitcoin mining heat can solve global energy crisis: Arcane

While innovations in chipset manufacturing have helped reduce operational costs related to Bitcoin mining, a report from Arcane reveals the market’s potential to transform the energy industry.  :o

source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/repurposing-bitcoin-mining-heat-can-solve-global-energy-crisis-arcane (https://cointelegraph.com/news/repurposing-bitcoin-mining-heat-can-solve-global-energy-crisis-arcane)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: mk4 on September 05, 2022, 10:59:34 AM
Bitcoin isn't a waste of electricity regardless if you can heat your home with it or not. Because in the first place, something being a "waste" of electricity is totally subjective. If you think that Bitcoin is useless, then of course you'd think that it's a waste of electricity, and vice versa. The same reason that I could also think that wasting electricity on stuff like televisions is a waste of electricity, while some would say otherwise.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: casinotester0001 on September 05, 2022, 11:07:54 AM
Bitcoin isn't a waste of electricity
People who are not involved in Bitcoin see it this way. Now if they hear that you can heat your home and earn money, maybe they will be inerested  :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: bitmover on September 05, 2022, 11:09:59 AM
Although  you can really heat your home with bitcoin mining, this is not the most efficient way to produce heat as its consume a lot more energy than a normal heater.


And in particular "Bitcoin will not survive the coming winter". Both of these are wrong.


About this, it is not going to the winter all over the world at the same time. Bitcoin is not even mainly mined in Europe, and it is going to be mined anyway in other places while it is winter in Europe and Europeans are living their gas crisis with Russia.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: LoyceV on September 05, 2022, 11:16:57 AM
Heating My Home with Crypto Mining
https://medium.com/swlh/heating-my-home-with-crypto-mining-137d2a29b62a (https://medium.com/swlh/heating-my-home-with-crypto-mining-137d2a29b62a)
The article even explains it costs him more money than using natural gas for heating.

Quote
It may be the greenest kind of heat around
No it's not. Unless you're otherwise using "dumb" electric resistor heating to heat your house, using electricity (without heat pump) wastes much more coal/gas/anything at the power plant than using that fuel directly to heat your house, because the power plant's efficiency is far from 100%.

If you want to be efficient: use excess heat from the power plant in block heating.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: casinotester0001 on September 05, 2022, 11:21:07 AM
...
These first experimental models are like cars that consume 40 gallons / 100 miles.
There will be people who will optimize the "mining-heater", I think  :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: NeuroticFish on September 05, 2022, 11:26:54 AM
Heating My Home with Crypto Mining

I have a feeling that these articles have forgotten about the noise a bitcoin miner makes.
I don't say that using the heat of the ASICs is bad (I think that some even use it for their garden/plants) as long as they mine anyway, I just say that the topic may need to be expanded/completed in order to make it actually useful.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Queentoshi on September 05, 2022, 11:27:04 AM
I have read these sort of stories and I find this thinking very innovative and a good way to recycle the heat generated from mining equipment. This will be of no benefit to those in places that require no heating, but to those in the colder region, leveraging on this free heat generated from mining hardware if you are a miner can effectively lower your expenses on electricity. Nothing should be a waste.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: franky1 on September 05, 2022, 11:57:06 AM
if asics produce more heat at 3kwh. than a normal home/whole room heating system then it is indeed green. plus you get passive income returns on that heat production

this case is true if comparing mining asic vs those small personal heaters devices that sit near you that only produce a certain level of heat to warm you up but for safety standards do not exceed a certain temperature. whilst wasting 1-2kw in doing so (personal heaters, not room heaters)

an asic can heat a whole room for 3kw. but i would not recommend putting it near you as the heat is intense in close proximity


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: NotATether on September 05, 2022, 12:42:40 PM
Excellent. That's one refutation for the arguments against mining during the winter.

On the other hand I'm not sure if this can be extended to summertime mining, unless there are air conditioning systems which work with heat as an input (??? I don't think that's logical).


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: BlackHatCoiner on September 05, 2022, 12:52:54 PM
About this, it is not going to the winter all over the world at the same time. Bitcoin is not even mainly mined in Europe, and it is going to be mined anyway in other places while it is winter in Europe and Europeans are living their gas crisis with Russia.
Besides that, more than 50% of the hash rate comes from renewable sources. Even if there was suddenly much less electricity provided for the ASICs, the network would continue working  (it'd harm, but it wouldn't kill it).

The article even explains it costs him more money than using natural gas for heating.
It really depends on a lot of things. The price of electricity, the price of bitcoin, the price of natural gas, the possible taxes on both the bitcoin and the natural gas, etc. Currently, it's even less profitable to mine bitcoin with this difficulty, so less incentive either.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: LoyceV on September 05, 2022, 01:13:43 PM
There will be people who will optimize the "mining-heater", I think  :)
No they won't. It's a competitive market: if it's profitable, the hash rate will go up, more miners will be installed, and it will consume more electricity again.

I have read these sort of stories and I find this thinking very innovative and a good way to recycle the heat generated from mining equipment.
There was an April Fools joke a few years back, to place servers in homes to get free heat.

On the other hand I'm not sure if this can be extended to summertime mining, unless there are air conditioning systems which work with heat as an input (??? I don't think that's logical).
Low temperature heat is quite useless for cooling. Using a miner only in cold months means you'll never earn back the hardware, and by the time summer is over, the hash rate went up so much your miner is worthless.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Lucius on September 05, 2022, 01:22:55 PM
I have read these sort of stories and I find this thinking very innovative and a good way to recycle the heat generated from mining equipment.
There was an April Fools joke a few years back, to place servers in homes to get free heat.

I don't think it was about jokes, at least as far as I remember, and it was about the Russian city of Irkutsk, where two entrepreneurs designed a system that would mine BTC and at the same time produce thermal energy. Maybe there were some April Fool's jokes, but over the years I have read about several examples where such systems have proven to be effective, of course with the assumption of cheap electricity.

https://archive.curbed.com/2017/11/9/16619032/bitcoin-mining-heat-homes-siberia-russia


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: stompix on September 05, 2022, 01:37:29 PM
These first experimental models are like cars that consume 40 gallons / 100 miles.
There will be people who will optimize the "mining-heater", I think  :)

You can't optimize those mining heaters by avoiding the law of physics, end of story!
Heat pumps have always provided more energy than they consume because they work on a different principle, you can't have a bitcoin miner that cossumes 3kw produce more than the equivalent joules of heat.

Besides, unlike any other systems ASICs need to run 24h, you won't be shutting them during the day and putting them back at night when you're cold, and during the day you have to get rid of the excess heat, how you do that, by venting it out using more energy to get rid of unwanted heat, do I have to tell you the efficiency of it?

The truth right now is that miners use more energy to get rid of the heat compared to the heat that is actually used.

I have a feeling that these articles have forgotten about the noise a bitcoin miner makes.
I don't say that using the heat of the ASICs is bad (I think that some even use it for their garden/plants) as long as they mine anyway, I just say that the topic may need to be expanded/completed in order to make it actually useful.

That's because the guy in the article was mining with a GPU, so... ;D
I have a feeling that sometimes people want to talk about how they wish things would work not how really they do.

ASICs are terrible as a home companion, they produce so much noise it's like having an industrial vacuum near you, I actually have my headphones sometimes when I enter that room, the screeching noise is just not the thing you want to listen to for more than 5 minutes. Then you have their enemies, dust, and humidity, you can get rid of dust but humidity is a pain in the ass.
So unless you have a spare room with no neighbors to complain everything is close to impossible, and if you have that in your house, you have the problem of transferring the heat because it's quite hard to transfer heat via air tubes for ventilation and not to transfer noise also!

Of course, there are ways to mitigate those
- tune your mines to low, it will reduce the consumption and thus the need for ventilate the heat and the noise
- use the miners to direct the heat only to the room next to you, heating it and transferring then naturally the heat without the noise

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business/how-to-heat-your-home-with-bitcoin-mining
I bet he spent more on that than his S9 will make in all its lifetime.

Quote
I’ll be removing the stock fans from the S9 and using an inline fan (an AC Infinity CLOUDLINE S4, which goes for around $100 at time of writing
An s9 makes 1$ a day, so there it goes 3 months and a half with just replacing the fan.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: NeuroticFish on September 05, 2022, 01:51:20 PM
The truth right now is that miners use more energy to get rid of the heat compared to the heat that is actually used.

Most probably; especially as mining seems to be more suitable on sunny places people can put on their solar panels.

That's because the guy in the article was mining with a GPU, so... ;D

Omg LOL!

you have the problem of transferring the heat because it's quite hard to transfer heat via air tubes for ventilation and not to transfer noise also!

It may work by actually heating water and send that through pipes, but that means more costs and more waste too.
Or as said, use the heat in a garden where the tomatoes may not mind the noise (although I've read in the past that flower prefer classical music). But that may need to be insulated too if it's near the civilization.

I bet he spent more on that than his S9 will make in all its lifetime.

Exactly.


Title: Bitcoin wastes electricity!
Post by: LegendaryK on September 05, 2022, 06:20:05 PM
These first experimental models are like cars that consume 40 gallons / 100 miles.
There will be people who will optimize the "mining-heater", I think  :)

You can't optimize those mining heaters by avoiding the law of physics, end of story!
Heat pumps have always provided more energy than they consume because they work on a different principle, you can't have a bitcoin miner that consumes 3kw produce more than the equivalent joules of heat.

Besides, unlike any other systems ASICs need to run 24h, you won't be shutting them during the day and putting them back at night when you're cold, and during the day you have to get rid of the excess heat, how you do that, by venting it out using more energy to get rid of unwanted heat, do I have to tell you the efficiency of it?

The truth right now is that miners use more energy to get rid of the heat compared to the heat that is actually used.



BOOM,
That was a great answer.  :)




Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: n0ne on September 05, 2022, 09:45:25 PM
If someone is running a home miner, during the winter the heat generated can be used to heat the home and the cooling system of the miner can be switched off. This is a way to limit the spending on electricity running a heater. I don't know how effective this would be, and there is nothing as waste electricity. For some purpose the electricity is being used, and we don't know how good this gives the better result.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Lanatsa on September 05, 2022, 09:49:27 PM
Bitcoin isn't a waste of electricity regardless if you can heat your home with it or not. Because in the first place, something being a "waste" of electricity is totally subjective. If you think that Bitcoin is useless, then of course you'd think that it's a waste of electricity, and vice versa. The same reason that I could also think that wasting electricity on stuff like televisions is a waste of electricity, while some would say otherwise.
There would be argumentations in between if we do really make out some comparison about bitcoin mining and watching TV then people would always be finding out some con's out of it and making up some debate.

Its never been a waste of electricity and if we are really just tending to compare it on other machines out there then we can say that it wont really be that worth.Anything that ends up on being beneficial for you
would really be considered to be useful and wont be a waste plus we are the ones who do pay out electricity consumption then its none of our business on how
we are consuming it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: franky1 on September 05, 2022, 10:21:45 PM
These first experimental models are like cars that consume 40 gallons / 100 miles.
There will be people who will optimize the "mining-heater", I think  :)

You can't optimize those mining heaters by avoiding the law of physics, end of story!
Heat pumps have always provided more energy than they consume because they work on a different principle, you can't have a bitcoin miner that cossumes 3kw produce more than the equivalent joules of heat.

what you might be forgetting. is those personal heaters people put near their beds or desks just to warm them up. are wasting 1kw but not heating a whole room. their aim is not to "cook metal" to 120oc+. their aim is to just raise the temperature by only xoc

those convector portable heaters that can warm a whole room use 2kw but they do not even try to produce 100oc due to safety mechanisms added to down power/shut off/prevent heaters getting too hot

meaning they are not even approaching the limits of physics

for product safety and consumer safety. they are wasting that 1kw-2kw energy but not producing the maximum achievable heat out of that energy

(safety rules about not going above Xoc to prevent house fires)

its not a law of physics that asics are breaking.. its actually safety guidelines of max temp for products designated as personal heaters.

yep you will not see a personal heater heater run constantly at 120oc
yet you will see an asic do that.

disclaimer dont sit near an asic. they get hot. and may also hurt your ears if you have not modified them to reduce noise


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: casinotester0001 on September 05, 2022, 10:23:29 PM
Repurposing Bitcoin mining heat can solve global energy crisis: Arcane

While innovations in chipset manufacturing have helped reduce operational costs related to Bitcoin mining, a report from Arcane reveals the market’s potential to transform the energy industry.  :o

source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/repurposing-bitcoin-mining-heat-can-solve-global-energy-crisis-arcane (https://cointelegraph.com/news/repurposing-bitcoin-mining-heat-can-solve-global-energy-crisis-arcane)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: hatshepsut93 on September 05, 2022, 11:37:53 PM
Mining equipment is much more expensive than an electric heater, so if you're not running it 24/7, it would take a lot of time to break even with a simple electric heater, and by that time the ASIC would likely be obsolete and unprofitable to run, because its hashrate won't keep up with the network. There's probably very few cases where such system could work, maybe somewhere in the Arctic where you need to warm something all the time.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: stompix on September 06, 2022, 01:12:38 AM
for product safety and consumer safety. they are wasting that 1kw-2kw energy but not producing the maximum achievable heat out of that energy
meaning they are not even approaching the limits of physics

Can you please elaborate on what happens to that energy that is not turned into heat in an electric heater?
Because unless it is either magically sent back to the grid or it's used to electrocute everyone in the room it does break the first law of thermodynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics).

So do enlighten me on what happens to the "wasted energy" in a heater or elaborate on how you feed a system 2 kWh and you get out only 5 MJ or 3MJ and not 7.2.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Fundamentals Of on September 06, 2022, 01:22:20 AM
Bitcoin isn't really a waste of electricity because the energy that Bitcoin mining consumes secures the network. It's for transactions to be processed securely.

Now, if Bitcoin mining's heat is being recycled and used for something else, it is merely a bonus. It's another story but at least it somehow pacifies those who are too worried about the energy that Bitcoin mining uses.

That's indeed saving a good deal of energy. After all, the heat could otherwise just be released as a waste, unused. But now, it is being recycled for a number of uses. Not to mention that the source of the energy used for the mining itself could also be from recycled methane, excess electricity, or from some other green sources.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Nrcewker on September 06, 2022, 01:51:32 AM
This is only applicable for countries with cold type of climates.
What about the ASIAN and Equatorial regions. For them heat is too much to survive.
Yeah in cold countries heating through mining machine can be good idea, but 90% of people are afraid of wiring and shocks. So I won’t suggest to live a life in such a closed wiring and machinery place.
I know my way of think process is different from other people, but yes that’s the best what I thought of.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: LegendaryK on September 06, 2022, 02:56:39 AM
Bitcoin isn't really a waste of electricity because the energy that Bitcoin mining consumes secures the network.
It's for transactions to be processed securely.


So wasting the energy of a country is required to secure a transaction in PoW.

Please recognize that is utter insanity.

Algorand a PoS coins secures a transaction in 4 seconds and gives transaction finality.
Bitcoin one of the last remaining PoW coin requires the energy of a freakin country and even after 1 year , can't guarantee transaction finality.

Currently 3 mining pool operators control over 56% of btc hashrate, they can 51% attack btc any second they choose.
BTC PoW security is a ridiculous joke, depending on the good nature of 3 people and hoping those 3 are never compromised.  ::)

  



Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Fundamentals Of on September 06, 2022, 04:01:08 AM
Bitcoin isn't really a waste of electricity because the energy that Bitcoin mining consumes secures the network.
It's for transactions to be processed securely.


So wasting the energy of a country is required to secure a transaction in PoW.

Please recognize that is utter insanity.

Algorand a PoS coins secures a transaction in 4 seconds and gives transaction finality.
Bitcoin one of the last remaining PoW coin requires the energy of a freakin country and even after 1 year , can't guarantee transaction finality.

Currently 3 mining pool operators control over 56% of btc hashrate, they can 51% attack btc any second they choose.
BTC PoW security is a ridiculous joke, depending on the good nature of 3 people and hoping those 3 are never compromised.  ::)

Again, it's not wasting. And don't interpret it as if the miners are not paying for the energy they're consuming. You want an example of wasting a country's energy? It's when they spend billions on fuel alone for their fighter planes, drones, bombers, warships, tanks, etc just to kill innocent people. That's wasting. That's insanity.

Please don't compare algorand with Bitcoin. Know your place and compete with a fellow shitcoin.

Mining pools are pools. They're composed of different miners located all over the world which contribute to their hashrate. Mining pools don't own and control their hashrate. Anything suspicious and these contributors could immediately leave and join another pool.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: LegendaryK on September 06, 2022, 04:17:42 AM

Please don't compare algorand with Bitcoin. Know your place and compete with a fellow shitcoin.

Mining pools don't own and control their hashrate. Anything suspicious and these contributors could immediately leave and join another pool.

As far as knowing my place, well FUCK YOU and your PoW Bitshitcoin .
Every and I mean every altcoin, outperforms your PoW Bitshitcoin , it is really sad your cult is so pathetic.

Mining pools operators do control the hashrate , that the dumb ass miners give them when joining their pool.
The operators determine if the block is released and what transactions are in the block if any.
Your btc developer are too lame , to even code in a limiter of % on the pools to keep security collusion attack potential low.
Just 3 colluding pool operators could 51% attack btc and your miners would be far too slow to switch to stop them.

It is sad , so many bitshitcoin PoW supporters are just complete and utter dumb-asses.
No worries, after this winter, the only thing I will have to hear from your cult ,
is oh how oh how did they ban bitshitcoin for wasting the world's energy.



Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Jatiluhung on September 06, 2022, 04:19:02 AM
the refrigerator is on daily for 24 hours. it is not considered a waste because there are benefits that we get and we need to freeze food to keep it durable. similarly bitcoin mining is not a waste at all because it gives profit to miners.

as long as it brings benefits and produces then there is no waste in it.

because many other industries use much more electricity in the process of running the industry. even the branch company continues to grow. so the use of electricity is increasing. but people don't make fake news about the industry because people know that the industry itself is a business and is useful in producing products.

well so is bitcoin mining. if people know about the benefits of mining bitcoin then I think people won't talk bad about it and associate it with wasting electricity and the environment.
those who continue to lead public opinion to demonize bitcoin mining from one side. they are just envious people.

because if they really speak out for the sake of protecting the environment then they should also discuss more industries or factories that today continue to pollute the environment from their waste. and continues to absorb more electricity than bitcoin mining. in fact they only attack bitcoin and have absolutely no comment with other industries that are more wasteful of electricity.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: LegendaryK on September 06, 2022, 04:23:56 AM
the refrigerator is on daily for 24 hours. it is not considered a waste because there are benefits that we get and we need to freeze food to keep it durable. similarly bitcoin mining is not a waste at all because it gives profit to miners.

as long as it brings benefits and produces then there is no waste in it.

The refrigerator has gotten more ENERGY EFFICIENT EVERY YEAR.
BTC wastes more power every year.

BTC pitiful onchain transaction capacity does not increase no matter how much power is wasted.
So where are your benefits?
BTC has no Benefits, hell it is not even making you poor btc cult members rich.
BTC literally has no value or purpose anymore, what so ever and is a parasite that has to be extracted and destroyed if Mankind is to survive.  :-*


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Jatiluhung on September 06, 2022, 04:34:43 AM
the refrigerator is on daily for 24 hours. it is not considered a waste because there are benefits that we get and we need to freeze food to keep it durable. similarly bitcoin mining is not a waste at all because it gives profit to miners.

as long as it brings benefits and produces then there is no waste in it.

The refrigerator has gotten more ENERGY EFFICIENT EVERY YEAR.
BTC wastes more power every year.

BTC pitiful onchain transaction capacity does not increase no matter how much power is wasted.
So where are your benefits?
BTC has no Benefits, hell it is not even making you poor btc cult members rich.
BTC literally has no value, what so ever and is a parasite that has to be extracted and destroyed if Mankind is to survive.  :-*
They say BTC is useless, because they don't hold it. They say bitcoin mining is not profitable because they don't mine it. but for me BTC is very useful. because I hold and use it.
The use of alternative energy has also been widely used in bitcoin mining.

but everyone has their own point of view. so please stick to what you believe.  ::)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: LegendaryK on September 06, 2022, 04:55:50 AM
the refrigerator is on daily for 24 hours. it is not considered a waste because there are benefits that we get and we need to freeze food to keep it durable. similarly bitcoin mining is not a waste at all because it gives profit to miners.

as long as it brings benefits and produces then there is no waste in it.

The refrigerator has gotten more ENERGY EFFICIENT EVERY YEAR.
BTC wastes more power every year.

BTC pitiful onchain transaction capacity does not increase no matter how much power is wasted.
So where are your benefits?
BTC has no Benefits, hell it is not even making you poor btc cult members rich.
BTC literally has no value, what so ever and is a parasite that has to be extracted and destroyed if Mankind is to survive.  :-*
They say BTC is useless, because they don't hold it. They say bitcoin mining is not profitable because they don't mine it. but for me BTC is very useful. because I hold and use it.
The use of alternative energy has also been widely used in bitcoin mining.

but everyone has their own point of view. so please stick to what you believe.  ::)

Hold and use it.  :D

1. Do you buy food with it?
2. Do you buy gas with it?
3. Do you pay your house mortgage or rent with it?
Or
4. do you just hold it , waiting for it to increase verses your local fiat to sell it?

Why does entire populations have to suffer with rolling blackouts ,
because you think some backwoods inept crypto coin that wastes energy and refuses to evolve to something, anything better will make you rich.
I hate to break it to you, if you were not invested before 2015 , odds are it will never make you rich.

Go buy a lottery ticket at least then , large populations don't have to suffer for your dreams of getting rich.


My vacation is now over, so I shall leave you to spread your nonsense.
Good Luck in the Dark Winter, and the coming Hunger Games in 2023.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Oasisman on September 06, 2022, 05:39:08 AM
Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining.

It's good to hear that you actually figured out Bitcoin mining's another purpose. But that won't really work to some countries with extremely heat weather.
Though regardless if it could heat your home or not, Bitcoin mining isn't a waste of energy because it has a value and people are slowly adopting into it. The more Bitcoin mined , the more Bitcoin can be distributed to everyone once it hits global adoption. So, I don't see any uselessness factor there.
Isn't it watching TV or listening to the radio a waste of energy as well? - when we can read the books and newspapers?
Isn't AC's are also a waste of energy when we can plant more tress around our house to shade us from directly sunlight and breath natural air?


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Jatiluhung on September 06, 2022, 05:45:57 AM
...
BTC pitiful onchain transaction capacity does not increase no matter how much power is wasted.
So where are your benefits?
BTC has no Benefits, hell it is not even making you poor btc cult members rich.
BTC literally has no value, what so ever and is a parasite that has to be extracted and destroyed if Mankind is to survive.  :-*
They say BTC is useless, because they don't hold it. They say bitcoin mining is not profitable because they don't mine it. but for me BTC is very useful. because I hold and use it.
The use of alternative energy has also been widely used in bitcoin mining.

but everyone has their own point of view. so please stick to what you believe.  ::)

Hold and use it.  :D

1. Do you buy food with it?
2. Do you buy gas with it?
3. Do you pay your house mortgage or rent with it?
Or
4. do you just hold it , waiting for it to increase verses your local fiat to sell it?

I guess I've used it a lot. so it's hard to write them all down. like I used it the last few months to send money abroad to my brother with bitcoin.
I also use it to deposit in some of the games I play and my various activities on the internet that require a deposit I often use BTC. although sometimes also in other crypto like TRX etc.
I use it more often in my needs on the internet.
and the rest I hold and continue to add to what I hold and of course I hope to profit in the future.

and this is one of the reasons I am on this forum because I am interested in bitcoin and have felt the benefits. and I want to be part of the community of other bitcoin users.
bitcoins are just bitcoins. have advantages and disadvantages. And every thing in this world has advantages and disadvantages too. so I don't discriminate against one thing over another. maybe you have found a lot of flaws in bitcoin. but of course bitcoin also has its own advantages. so I'm neutral about this. about it. because everyone knows that every thing has its advantages and disadvantages.

And it seems you misunderstood me.
I also don't think I'll be rich with just bitcoins. because I use it to be put to good use in what I need.

I invest not even just bitcoin. bitcoin is just one of them. if it's about crypto projects of course I have also invested in other coins like buying ETH when it dropped to $950. and there are a total of 11 other coins which I also hold. and I keep increasing the number.

I do have a dream to be rich. but I didn't go through one path. I have taken many paths to achieve it. because I always have a backup plan behind other backup plans.

because now I always send money to relatives who are in the country of birth. and the money I sent there was used to continue buying land. and that's my dream is I want to have a lot of land in my hometown. it's my biggest investment in the physical world. and for the internet I choose bitcoin as one of my long term investments.
I also choose to use BTC in the delivery method because I don't dare to send money through banks. because there was an incident my money did not arrive. and I took care of the bank regarding the problem. and it takes time. and a few days later then I can get my money back.
so after that I chose to use BTC in cross-country remittances.

I will not reject any revolution. but a revolution can be carried out without having to overthrow one party.
please create evolution or revolution or population or reproduction or transmission or musicians or emission and or ammunition and other sides  ;D but don't blame it on people who still hold the stuff you call undeveloped.

because one day old goods can turn into antiques. that collectors are looking for with high bids.

people who defend bitcoin doesn't mean they just hold bitcoin and are fanatics of it. sometimes they even create their own project which is expected to be something better than bitcoin. although I don't think there is anything that can replace bitcoin's position for now. but making something new doesn't mean having to let go and vilify the old.


My vacation is now over, so I shall leave you to spread your nonsense.
Good Luck in the Dark Winter, and the coming Hunger Games in 2023.
Take it easy friend. Please go. and no need to ask permission. because I never lived with you. so no need to leave. because I only reply to you because I only have to fulfill my daily post count or quota ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: franky1 on September 06, 2022, 06:54:32 AM
for product safety and consumer safety. they are wasting that 1kw-2kw energy but not producing the maximum achievable heat out of that energy
meaning they are not even approaching the limits of physics

Can you please elaborate on what happens to that energy that is not turned into heat in an electric heater?
Because unless it is either magically sent back to the grid or it's used to electrocute everyone in the room it does break the first law of thermodynamics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_law_of_thermodynamics).

So do enlighten me on what happens to the "wasted energy" in a heater or elaborate on how you feed a system 2 kWh and you get out only 5 MJ or 3MJ and not 7.2.

do i really need to explain common sense real life stuff that people learn from just living their life and experiencing things.. .. seems i do

so sit back take your hands off the keyboard. and read for next couple minutes. you might learn more in a couple minutes than you have in years
and no replies with debates about my tone, manner or expressing my reply negatively.. you asked a silly question so deserve a less than pleasant lesson(yet again)

firstly
i dare you to take 20 different (randomly picked) heaters all using 2KW and i guarantee you they all wont be emitting the same radiant heat.. at the thermo dynamic efficiency limit you think heaters work at..

you want to imply they must all be following some max efficiency of some natural law of all converting 2kw into Xmj of heat.. that no other product can surpass... you will prove yourself wrong instantly by test driving heaters..

scared to try? well lets move on to the other thing you are not sure of

as for your question of  where does X energy go if not used to produce heat
not all materials produce the same heat from the same electric current flowing through them. also many heaters also produce light as part of the heating element (halogen heaters)

alos regulations prevent devices described as heater rom going too far in regards to heat.. its called fire safety regulations, where by energy is wasted BY DESIGN for comfort and safety..

yep if one material can radiate a space of 2metres using a intense light(halogen) heat system.. some regulator would come along and say the light is too bright and can burn somones retina's or their skin if too close so they use a less efficient material to get the heat without the light.
thus devices do not function at the max limit of thermo dynamic law.. by design

or from the other side of convection heating some materials can blow out enough heat to radiate 2metres space and again regulators will say thats great for people at the 2m circumference but anyone touching the unit will sizzle their hand off touching it or the unit might produce a house fire. so again. design changes to dampen down things

if you think room heaters are just left to "cook" at max temp of the energy input efficiency. you are sadly mistaken.

oh and good quality material that can work efficiently to convert energy into heat without reaching extensive heat that can burn or ignite nearby objects, but these comes at a cost. so those making CHEAP heaters dont use those materials so more energy is required to heat up inefficient material.

"energy rating" appliances are not based on efficiency of thermo dynamics efficiency limits.. .. its based on a arbitrary amount lower then that..  deemed acceptable to regulators as "efficient" in regards to known materials manufacturers deem cheap/safe to be plausible to use for consumer goods, by which making those products wont risk a companies liability or risk

oh by the way..
i can cook eggs and bacon on this 1kw appliance
https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine-ESB-301BF-Electric-Indicator/dp/B00C8C5I7I/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=battery+operated+cooking+appliances&qid=1662446687&sr=8-4
easier, better, quicker, safer then i can cook eggs and bacon on a 2kw halogen room heater

yep.. i travel alot mainly in hotels, guest stays.. and sometimes i tour around
i see many people in caravans/RV's open their windows in the morning when they cook breakfast because their 1KW cooker fills their caravan/RV with heat faster then the silly 2kw halogen heater does at night, where they still end up needing blankets and extra things to get warm


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Kakmakr on September 06, 2022, 07:08:14 AM
Well, I will rather invest in a few Gas heaters.. than buying a Bitcoin mining rig with several ASICs to generate heat to heat up my house. Even if you subtract the profits from your expenses to buy and run the mining rig, it will still make it the most expensive method to heat your house!

It is a total different story, if you going to mine in any way... then the re-use of the heat is a added bonus in cold countries. Imagine a few large corporations in cold countries that will do this to reduce their "heat" bill and to supplement their income for their business.  ::)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: franky1 on September 06, 2022, 07:22:40 AM
Well, I will rather invest in a few Gas heaters.. than buying a Bitcoin mining rig with several ASICs to generate heat to heat up my house. Even if you subtract the profits from your expenses to buy and run the mining rig, it will still make it the most expensive method to heat your house!

It is a total different story, if you going to mine in any way... then the re-use of the heat is a added bonus in cold countries. Imagine a few large corporations in cold countries that will do this to reduce their "heat" bill and to supplement their income for their business.  ::)

its more about using an asic you already have, rather than buying a brand new asic purely for heating

heck i have an old s2 bitmain of 1kw. that belts out more heat than a 2kw portable heater does

i dont mine it. as the reward is crap(its only a 1thash)
but just using it as a warm foot stall/rest.. that radiates the room has its uses at certain times of the year(just for giggles of seeing if it still even turns on/works)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Obito on September 06, 2022, 08:55:23 AM
Your claim is situational, if I were to build a rig in a tropical country like mine, I am pretty sure that the dispersed heat won't be of any use to me because it doesn't get freezing cold here. I would agree that it can work especially if you're in a cold climate country but it's not a good idea for me especially with an expensive electricity.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: yhiaali3 on September 06, 2022, 09:07:27 AM
You need electricity in the first place for mining, if there is no electricity because of the gas crisis for example you can't mine and therefore you can't recycle the energy spent by mining to heat the house or other things, anyway energy recycling seems like a very attractive idea to stop the constant screaming about wasting bitcoin For energy, this process can be used for many things, not just for heating.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: TheGreatPython on September 06, 2022, 09:24:10 AM
the refrigerator is on daily for 24 hours. it is not considered a waste because there are benefits that we get and we need to freeze food to keep it durable. similarly bitcoin mining is not a waste at all because it gives profit to miners.
But, I think the electrical cost of the refrigerators are not that much as when compared to those bitcoin mining machines. A miner can get a good profit but that will still look small if they minus their electrical cost and what if the miner experience some issues? There is a big chance that they will lose more than what they can earn.

The idea of using the heat on the bitcoin miners is great but I think this only applies to those who own a large btc mining company and not to those who only have one or two miners inside their house. This will also work great in those countries who have a colder temperature while it can be dangerous on countries who are hot already as too much heat may cause a fire.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: bitterguy28 on September 06, 2022, 09:54:08 AM
Bitcoin isn't a waste of electricity
People who are not involved in Bitcoin see it this way. Now if they hear that you can heat your home and earn money, maybe they will be inerested  :)
but this will still depend in which place you are living because there are large area of bitcoin user that does not need heating their house , but this does not imply that bitcoin is a waste of electricity because like the first post says, no matter if you are heating or not your house there will always other that will waste electricity .
Your claim is situational, if I were to build a rig in a tropical country like mine, I am pretty sure that the dispersed heat won't be of any use to me because it doesn't get freezing cold here. I would agree that it can work especially if you're in a cold climate country but it's not a good idea for me especially with an expensive electricity.
well that is what I also mentioned here because not all bitcoin user or miner are from cold weather country .


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: stompix on September 06, 2022, 10:58:23 AM
"energy rating" appliances are not based on efficiency of thermo dynamics efficiency limits.. .. its based on a arbitrary amount lower then that..  deemed acceptable to regulators as "efficient" in regards to known materials manufacturers deem cheap/safe to be plausible to use for consumer goods, by which making those products wont risk a companies liability or risk

So you're telling me running a 2kw appliance for one hour will burn 1kwh of electricity and turn it into heat and 1 kwh will just be .. transferred where? Do you actually understand the law of thermodynamics?
Energy can only be transformed in a system, it can't be destroyed, I suggest you write down an essay and send it to those idiots at universities telling them how you found a way to destroy energy and not create any other form.

scared to try? well lets move on to the other thing you are not sure of

It's far better if you try something else.
Buy a heater since you obviously never owned one, buy the cheapest smart socket on the market that has power readings and you're going to be in a for a surprise to what happens to that electric heater when it hits the built-in limits, magically the power consumption will drop to zero.
Because there is no way in this universe to run electricity through something without generating heat, again laws of physics, 6th grade.

you want to imply they must all be following some max efficiency of some natural law of all converting 2kw into Xmj of heat.. that no other product can surpass... you will prove yourself wrong instantly by test driving heaters..

Exactly!
There is a law, you earn it in the sixth grade, and energy can't be created or destroyed in a closed system.
Since the heater is not giving the energy in its pure form away, it only transforms it, there is no way (again laws of physics) for 1 kw to equal once 0.8 joules and once 78 joules, again, it's the law of physics.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Fundamentals Of on September 07, 2022, 03:02:58 AM

Please don't compare algorand with Bitcoin. Know your place and compete with a fellow shitcoin.

Mining pools don't own and control their hashrate. Anything suspicious and these contributors could immediately leave and join another pool.

As far as knowing my place, well FUCK YOU and your PoW Bitshitcoin .
Every and I mean every altcoin, outperforms your PoW Bitshitcoin , it is really sad your cult is so pathetic.

Mining pools operators do control the hashrate , that the dumb ass miners give them when joining their pool.
The operators determine if the block is released and what transactions are in the block if any.
Your btc developer are too lame , to even code in a limiter of % on the pools to keep security collusion attack potential low.
Just 3 colluding pool operators could 51% attack btc and your miners would be far too slow to switch to stop them.

It is sad , so many bitshitcoin PoW supporters are just complete and utter dumb-asses.
No worries, after this winter, the only thing I will have to hear from your cult ,
is oh how oh how did they ban bitshitcoin for wasting the world's energy.

Lol. Your shitcoin wouldn't have even a single supporter had Bitcoin not earned the success it deserved. Its price would rise when Bitcoin's price rises. Its price would fall when Bitcoin's price falls. That's the life of these parasitic shitcoins. So don't pray that Bitcoin would fall because that would also mean your shitcoin would also become trash.

It's just so sad that you have to promote your shitcoin by recycling FUD against the very coin that made your shitcoin possible. If I were you, I'd enjoy this winter by selling all your shitcoin for Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: xzy887 on September 07, 2022, 04:35:11 AM
Bitcoin never wastes electricity. I don't know if Bitcoin can heat the house or not. But Bitcoin is a trusted currency. We may need to transact in this currency in the future. Because very soon Bitcoin will be legal in all countries and all transactions will be done with this Bitcoin then there will be no third party hands. And this Bitcoin never wastes our electricity but otherwise I would say running fans and televisions in winter days wastes electricity.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Leviathan.007 on September 08, 2022, 09:43:09 AM
Recently we hear much news and seen many articles about bitcoin and power consumption while mining bitcoin, that's mostly because of summer and during this time since the power consumption increases all over the world the governments and organizations will try to say the power consumption is because of bitcoin while the power consumption of pricing money and managing the traditional bank systems in much higher than this. Even if we consider the consumption is high still we can use the heat generated by bitcoin miners for your house as the op mentioned. So we cannot call that waste of energy.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Daltonik on October 09, 2022, 09:27:49 AM
Bitcoiners always flabbergast me. I really never thought someone can use Bitcoin as source of energy. I don't know how much of this is possible, but yeas its good concept earn while you heat up without burn..

For example, here is a photo of the implemented immersion cooling model for heat recovery for heating your home, in my opinion, it is done well and with benefits for both the family and the network, besides, if you already have Asic's, then why not just use them instead of heating elements or gas. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5409655.msg60833198#msg60833198

Actually here is his photo:

https://i.imgur.com/PZxFYZn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Y7XQdYy.jpg


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: OgNasty on October 09, 2022, 07:22:33 PM
I can honestly say that since discovering Bitcoin in 2011, I have probably used my home's heater maybe twice.  I would rather get a blanket and setup another GPU than produce heat just to produce heat.  It's been an interesting ride, I know that much.  Granted, I'm in the desert so I don't have a need for heat more than maybe 4 months out of the year at most, but those few months when I need the heat, my house is nice and toasty.  Just close the exhaust valve I installed to get rid of heat and enjoy the warmth.  :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Daltonik on October 10, 2022, 06:52:51 AM
I can honestly say that since discovering Bitcoin in 2011, I have probably used my home's heater maybe twice.  I would rather get a blanket and setup another GPU than produce heat just to produce heat.  It's been an interesting ride, I know that much.  Granted, I'm in the desert so I don't have a need for heat more than maybe 4 months out of the year at most, but those few months when I need the heat, my house is nice and toasty.  Just close the exhaust valve I installed to get rid of heat and enjoy the warmth.  :)

Of course you are right, of course it is not suitable for a warm climate, but why not use your old Asics in immersion systems for heating needs if you live in a region where it is cold for 9 months, in combination with a heat pump and an air heater to relieve heat in summer it can work. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: swogerino on October 10, 2022, 08:43:48 AM
I am using it,my old GPU rig with 6 x Rx 570 cards I turned it on in the 30 September date because the government threaten us to increase the energy power by 5x and if I turn on my A/C it uses like 3.1 Kw an hour while if I am using the rig to generate heat it does two things,it mines at a loss right now but beside that it generates relatively good heat for my living room which is not that big and I am happily doing it,this way I am also saving energy as this consumes 900 watt compared to 3100 the air condition does.

Europe should do this too especially now that the energy prices have skyrocketed there.


Title: Re: Bitcoin wastes electricity? - No - Heat your home with mining
Post by: Lorence.xD on October 10, 2022, 08:54:17 AM
Bitcoiners always flabbergast me. I really never thought someone can use Bitcoin as source of energy. I don't know how much of this is possible, but yeas its good concept earn while you heat up without burn..
Try doing this in a tropical country like mine, pretty sure that you won't be using it that much because most of the time, it's hot in here and even if it's rainy season, the temperature is just right and a blanket and hot coffee would be enough to stave off the cold. Maybe in countries that experience winter it might see a lot of usage.