Bitcoin Forum

I can't seem to understand why btc is tagged as the bad guy supposedly consuming all the energy the planet has to offer while about 50,000 TWh is being wasted ::)
According to the below infographic, the number of energy that is wasted globally is much higher than what all miners can ever consume, although am not very sure of the data accuracy but I want to believe it is close to accurate, btc mining can not be the monster of energy consumption the media and most especially government are presenting it to be.

https://i.imgur.com/fXwBi7w.jpg

Image source (https://t.me/Bitcoin_Insights)

What do you think?

Well, this is simple imho.

There's a deep energy related problem because politicians have made some some policies they didn't think them over good enough.
But, as we know, politicians' main goal is to get re-elected. So they have to divert attention and find culprits.
So.. what entity or industry is consuming energy, and they can blame all this on and still make them look good? Bitcoin.
Their banker friends will be happy, older existing energy-hungry industry owners will be happy, bitcoin needs some bashing to "protect" the fiat and the printing machine... it's really the closest to a win-win scenario.

Ah, some geeks will be unhappy about all this? So what?
...or you thought those politicians and media (owned or under contract with politicians) do care about you, or us?!

I wonder where those figures come from and if they're even accurate.

Afaik 8000TWh is likely to be used by the grid to import your energy to you (going through two transformers to ensure no extra energy is lost in transit and that seems like a lot compared with the 50TWh, are we then also including cars stopping at red lights and fridges giving off heat out the back, or people using old light bulbs that have to gest up to produce light instead of LEDs which can make it almost instantly.

A previous source of this infographic was the Bitcoin Mining Council (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPai5uoN2tg) and I know I've seen it many times on the forum. What has changed in this infographic from the OP is the total consumption that Bitcoin mining has on an annual level, and compared to before (188 TWh), it now amounts to 247 TWh.

I'm not an expert and I can't say if it makes sense that the energy consumption has increased so much, or if it's photoshop, given that the source is a telegram channel.

Here is the Q2 report, 253 TWh:
https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/2022.07.19-BMC-Presentation-Q2-22-Presentation.pdf

And of course, it has grown, have you seen how the hashrate went up from last year?

https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob666c197c6201f9cd.png

Whether it's accurate or not.

Let's all just accept that these people that are against bitcoin will always find a way to spread FUD about bitcoin. Remember that when it was always Tweeted by Elon about the "green mining" about bitcoin.

They always describe bitcoin as the bad actor but neglecting the other industries that are causing more harm to its surroundings than of those mining farms and solo miners of bitcoin.

And even when majority of the mining farms are using green and renewable energy, they'll always have those the same words to say about it being bad and likely consuming all the energies in the world.

I wonder if that chart is accurate. That's a lot of energy being wasted, though I understand that it is unavoidable since our current technology doesn't allow for lossless energy transfer just yet. But 154k TWh? That seems a lot, and in comparison to bitcoin mining's total energy usage per annum, mining wouldn't even make a mark on the pie chart. But yeah, these talks will never end as advocates of efficient energy use will always find a way to go against bitcoin. It makes you look like you're concerned for the environment, when in reality you are not.

Forget about the energy and you'll see that every couple of years there is a new topic they use to bash bitcoin. The reason is that from the first day that Bitcoin was introduced it scared a lot of corrupt people and organizations that felt threatened since bitcoin could replace what they offered or at least significantly reduce their dominance.

Consequently we have seen all kinds of lies spread about bitcoin, from bitcoin being a Ponzi scheme and used to buy drugs all the way to the most recent ones about energy consumption and price following US stock market.

The energy FUD is specifically hot these days since most of the Western world where majority of FUDs originate from are facing a very serious energy crisis.

The fabricated "Energy crisis" are just a political play to fund large projects, where opportunities for bribes are created in a partnership between large Private companies and top government officials.  >:(

So, what they do for example : They do not maintain the power plants and the supporting infrastructure, so that it eventually fails. When it fails... it creates a fabricated "crisis" that needs emergency funding. The Tender processes are hastened to "manage" the crisis and in that process... a lot of money for the project are siphoned to pay for inflated costs to rush those projects. (This "extra" money are then used to pay bribes to the people that approved the tenders)  ::)

I keep reading that there was an increase in the hash rate, but I didn't know until now that it was such a big increase, and then it makes sense that the energy consumption has also increased quite a bit. It seems that the on-duty critics still haven't got hold of the new data, which will surely serve them for new attacks at a time when we have a real energy crisis anyway.

Looking at the recent hashrate increase there's still a distortion due to the Jul 2021 hashrate drop though, ie. a lot of the growth of the last 365 days is presumably hardware coming back online after having been relocated. So compared to last year's peak of ~180.66 EH/s we are currently only up ~27% at ~230 EH/s [1]. Accounting for the improved hashrate and efficiency of current mining hardware [2] it actually looks more like there's been a decrease in deployed hardware, as old ASICs become deprecated and are replaced, leading to slightly less energy consumption overall (assuming miners are still trying to make a profit, which seems likely). This would also fit with current Bitcoin price declines and increased energy prices.

[1] https://www.blockchain.com/charts/hash-rate
[2] https://www.asicminervalue.com/efficiency/sha-256

Peaks are quite irrelevant, as consumption in those statistics are generalized for the entire quarter.
So if we take the 188 Twh for the Q3 IN 2021:
https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/2021.10.19-Q3-BMC-Presentation-Materials-Final.pdf

It covers this period:
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob39ed20bb51262b7a.png

which is around a 100Exa average.
Compared to this, in this whole last quarter, we have the lowest value at 202Exa, so at least a 100% increase in hashrate for the lowest point compared to an approximate growth of only 33% in energy consumption, to me is a bit of wishful thinking to consider that much new gear has been deployed when the prices for it were though the roof the whole period, we actually have reached periods of 3 years ROI to some s19 versions.

As told by Lucius, the energy attacks on bitcoin, and Proof-of-Work in general, have a bright future. Governments have kicked the hornet's nest, and the sociopolitical consequences from ECG are heading towards us. I expect tremendous numbers of environmental propaganda, many of which will have to do with bitcoin mining. Some have already begun: https://nitter.net/DWhitmanBTC/status/1567915248149209089

Some have even introduced penalty mechanisms. Which country will be the bitcoin mining paradise?

Let's be frank with ourselves, the energy consumption of Bitcoin mining is high, that's why many miners can not keep up with the competition and the cost of effectively running Bitcoin mining is very huge. As we all know high power consumption is equal to high Energy emissions which can lead to environmental hazards.
This isn't to say that Bitcoin mining is the chief cause of all global environmental, climate issues. But still I think it can be tackled.

The world always will be evolving and I think Crypto-currency and bitcoin should too, no that Crypto-currency is part of our future so it's impacts on us financially, and also environmentally. If there is any mean for Bitcoin to run on an power efficient and low carbon emission source this would improve this.

I think it's not accurate since the number shown in the pic is too much. I don't think people will waste so much energy because they know that their electric bills are also going to be expensive if they do and I think so many appliances or gadgets right now have an energy saving feature so there is only less to none energy that are going to be wasted. Energy fuds like this can be normal and it is the same as other kinds of fuds in btc.

As long as there is bitcoin, there will also be bitcoin haters. They will think of anything and they will use it only to destroy the image of btc. We need to ignore them because if you will argue it, the more they will become happy.

And those that spread FUD, I think most of them are not part of government. But, they have that agenda because bitcoin is hitting their business and that's why they have to do what they have to do.

The same goes for those that are spreading FUD, they have their own reasons like they just want to see bitcoin at a cheap rate so everything they can describe things at their comfort for bitcoin's negativity.

There's always those biased people because they're not sincere of what they do but only tell things so that it will be at their advantage like these FUDs about bitcoin's electricity consumption.

I think the study is inconclusive! Like, why center on bitcoin just because they wish to ruin it!! It's just not fair to the developing currency but the one thing I know and like about bitcoin is the fact that, every FUD serves to its promotion. So they could spread the FUD all they want, there are those that would still see the truth in there lies.

I think they should look at other fields too and talk about emissions from crude oil processing companies, the nuclear weapon testing, dump site emissions and disposal of radioactive substances. There are a lot of things that harms the environment and humans but still, we are managing them. Why should bitcoin be any different.

Exactly what you say sir. In fact, they will not hesitate to make news about the bad economy of a country that does not agree with them and exaggerate it. especially if it's a country that has adopted bitcoin. Sometimes they also make news to cover up the crisis they are facing.

Whenever there is a Fud news, I am always lazy to respond or even read it. because despite the fact that there are so many benefits and good things about bitcoin emerging, then those haters don't want to see it at all and don't want to admit the goodness and benefits that exist in bitcoin. and conversely, if there is even a speck of weakness in bitcoin they find, then they will make it big news. and pays all media to vilify bitcoin (fud). all Fud about bitcoin that they spread and have been circulating from the past until now actually everything is just a small exaggeration. even they will not hesitate to make fake news to slander bitcoin. so let them keep spit out the trash from their mouths. because if all they can say is ugliness, then their contents are all ugliness and rottenness. I believe bitcoin will not budge with the news of fud. because the more fud news, the more famous the name bitcoin.

You know, this has been going on for years. I mean the attack on Bitcoin from the point of view of its energy need and use. At first, the impact was rather big. It became a sort of a big deal to the point that Elon even used it as an excuse to stop accepting Bitcoin payment for Tesla purchases.

Later on, however, it has significantly waned down. Not only because it's more of a valid energy use than a waste but also because the concern is more or less a FUD, which is mainly coming from solid anti-Bitcoin critics who are blind to objective data.

Today, I guess it is not given significance anymore. However, it doesn't mean that the industry hasn't improved in terms of emission and the use of better energy source.

But worry not about this. The globe is warming faster because of porn watching than Bitcoin mining. Watching useless TV series consumes more energy than Bitcoin mining.

Certainly, what is consumed by factories and homes is much more than what is consumed by miners, there are quantities of electrical energy wasted on unnecessary things such as unused lighting in homes and cooling and heating air conditioners, for example, is very large, in addition to factories that draw large quantities Too much electricity and polluting the environment too, all these things are never talked about while Bitcoin is primarily blamed, this is nonsense.

Once we don't like something, we will always find excuses to blame and try to convince others that we are telling the truth that it is not as good as they think and it is not right for them. But we don't know that it won't work for you, it will work for others, everyone's needs are different. This is part of human nature.

Bitcoin too, those who don't like it will always slander it, consider it dangerous but for those who understand it, it is extremely precious.
So we don't need to be interested too much about Fuds like this, it won't help us at all, let's just ignore everything and keep working on our goal.

And the strangest thing in this whole story is that the loudest opponents of Bitcoin mining are from the continent where it is least represented, which is Europe. If by any chance the situation were like in the US, I have a feeling that Bitcoin miners would be bigger enemies in the EU than Putler's Russia.

A few years ago, a journalist or scientist published a tweet in which she suggested that everyone who mines or owns Bitcoin should pay some kind of special tax, and unfortunately there have been a lot of such experts over the years.

I just hope that Bitcoin mining paradise will not become a country like Russia, because they have a surplus of energy that they could use in that way. Considering the negative reputation they currently have, this would not be good for Bitcoin, so I hope that their policy will still remain without interest in Bitcoin.

You are absolutely right, Europe seems to be the loudest when it comes to btc mining criticism even when little or no mining at all is being carried out in that country.
Looking at the chart below containing btc mining from 2019 to 2022 data, Europe is not even among the countries with the highest number of miners so I sincerely don't see how the issue of btc mining will affect their economy or environment for that matter if less mining activities are happening in that area.

https://i.imgur.com/Ofml3NG.png (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1200477/bitcoin-mining-by-country/)

You just said it yourself this is FUD and nothing more, the data doesn't back up the opinion of politicians and other powerful individuals, but that doesn't matter because they do not care about the truth, what they care is about creating an image that mining bitcoin is somehow destroying the planet and wasting resources, they want to make people believe that the current system is way more efficient and as such if they want to keep the planet safe then they should select the currencies printed by governments.

Their main purpose is to ruin the reputation of Bitcoin and this is not about energy, this is about the threat of Bitcoin that can bring to other businesses and that’s why they continue to spread FUD until it reaches the government. Well, energy consumption running a building are way more expensive but as long as they are paying for it, the government will not make any actions on that. With the upcoming update on ETH, I think they tend to address the energy consumption when mining, and if they succeeded on this other project can also have that kind of update and maybe, energy consumption will not be an issue anymore in the future.

I'd ask these people why do they want to stop bitcoin mining so much instead of adding more nuclear power plants to produce cheap energy if they feel like they don't have enough of it. Ukraine will have a surplus now. They have a lot of nuclear power and their towns got decimated so the demand is low. Maybe after they finally get rid of this Russian infestation they will invite some bitcoin miners? That would be a great idea to get some capital flowing their way, to become another bitcoin friendly country.

I can't fathom why Bitcoin keeps getting targeted for all kinds of reasons, from it being a bubble to consuming too much energy. This is clearly not the first time Bitcoin mining operations have been targeted for their energy efficiency. The image posted by the OP is true. Bitcoin operations only account for less than 1% of the total electricity consumed. Some will claim that 1% is too much, but I beg to differ for something that is practically generating wealth. In my opinion, we're bound to see more enemies of mining operations in the upcoming months due to the energy crisis.

On top of that, Bitcoin mining is mostly operated in Asian countries; there are hardly any operations in Europe, which is facing the largest threat from the energy crisis, but still, it's constantly being targeted for consuming excessive energy.

Its' becoming a billion dollar business now, so those who are late wanted to bring it down.  But maybe we can rub this in to those who attack bitcoin mining,


https://cointelegraph.com/news/cleanspark-acquires-mining-facility-in-georgia-for-33-million

So when they thought that they can stop it, more and more companies or those who have invested on it early is still continuing to do so this day. Despite the attack and FUD and the current market sentiments.

The energy debate has been ongoing for some time, it's only as of late that the misinformation campaign has been ramped up because of the European energy crisis.

Global energy demands increase, therefore it is incumbent upon the climate change/green energy activists to pick the lowest hanging fruit to attack.


It's a nonissue. The energy consumption is high, relative to what? Compared to global energy consumption, not even a drop in the ocean.

this is seen because there is no legality from the government. when the legalization occurs, the government will look for alternative solutions to overcome the energy crisis. on the other hand because of the war and only a few European countries that have the natural resources needed, then defeating bitcoin seems to be an easier way to go, this is different from Asian countries which have many abundant natural resources. especially for now European countries are experiencing an energy crisis and high inflation, so mining bitcoins may not be profitable

I don't think we need legality from the government just to mine bitcoin though. As others have pointed out we are in an energy crisis specially in Europe so everyone is watching how energy is consumed and it just so happen that there are countries that allow bitcoin mining so these regulators and watchdog are going to say negative things about it and create a air that it is very bad for everything, including the ill effects on the environment.

Exactly. There isn't even such thing as "limited energy." The energy is unlimited. You just don't want to pay the price. The price is going higher because, the central banks printing more money than they should have.

It is amazing that they want to have low inflation after printing multiple trillions of US dollars in the last 2 years. Tbh oil price should be way higher than $100 right now. It is being manipulated af.

I think the attention should be on the 50,000 TWh energy lost due to inefficiency and wastage, why the governments are not concerned about that, and make it a priority to find ways to curtail energy lost.

You probably just expressed yourself wrongly, but Europe is a continent where many countries are located, although in most of them it is not profitable to mine Bitcoin because of the high price of electricity, but also because the VAT and customs costs of importing mining devices are quite high considering that they come mostly from China. If you wonder why some voices within the EU are so loud about banning crypto mining, then you should know that their source is mainly in the north of Europe in countries like Sweden, and they don't really have any existential problems, so they deal with all kinds of nonsense. Although I read that the level of crime in Sweden has increased tremendously, so maybe now they will pay a little more attention to solving the problem internally, and they will not come up with various stupid ideas.

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In a world where there was logic, that would indeed be the primary problem, but it's much easier to attack Bitcoin than to try to solve that problem. Although by constantly attacking Bitcoin due to POW and massive energy consumption (about 250 TWh per year), they only show their true intention, which has nothing to do with energy consumption or environmental protection.

This is simply about power, politicians hate anything that takes power away from them and from other powerful people that are their friends, they can easily see that bitcoin is a threat to them and as such they are not above lying in order to try to decrease the rate at which bitcoin is being adopted all over the world, and if for that they have to say bitcoin is a bubble, that is only used by criminals or that is a threat to the environment due to its energy consumption they are going to do it even if they know this is not true.

I'm guessing that Sweden has enough fuel to make it through the winter?


These days, policy everywhere is more like: "Let's make it seem like we are solving problems without actually solving them". A bluff.

Let's put it this way, Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Making_Sweden_an_Oil-Free_Society), unlike most countries in Europe, long ago started a process in which it will become less and less dependent on gas or oil, and today it gets most of its energy from nuclear plants, hydro sources and biofuels and waste. Although oil still makes up a certain percentage of total consumption, gas is something that Sweden does not have to worry too much about. I think it will be much clearer if you look at the following infographic.