Bitcoin Forum

Pump and dumps are illegal.

> Pump-and-dump is a manipulative scheme that attempts to boost the price of a stock or security through fake recommendations. These recommendations are based on false, misleading, or greatly exaggerated statements. The perpetrators of a pump-and-dump scheme already have an established position in the company's stock and will sell their positions after the hype has led to a higher share price.

Tesla buying coins, Elon tweeting about them, and then later selling the coins is pure market manipulation.

> (1)For the purpose of creating a false or misleading appearance of active trading in any security other than a government security, or a false or misleading appearance with respect to the market for any such security, (A) to effect any transaction in such security which involves no change in the beneficial ownership thereof, or (B) to enter an order or orders for the purchase of such security with the knowledge that an order or orders of substantially the same size, at substantially the same time, and at substantially the same price, for the sale of any such security, has been or will be entered by or for the same or different parties, or (C) to enter any order or orders for the sale of any such security with the knowledge that an order or orders of substantially the same size, at substantially the same time, and at substantially the same price, for the purchase of such security, has been or will be entered by or for the same or different parties.

It looks like we can also do fraud;

> 380 (1) Every one who, by deceit, falsehood or other fraudulent means, whether or not it is a false pretence within the meaning of this Act, defrauds the public or any person, whether ascertained or not, of any property, money or valuable security or any service,

> (a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to a term of imprisonment not exceeding fourteen years, where the subject-matter of the offence is a testamentary instrument or the value of the subject-matter of the offence exceeds five thousand dollars; or

Assuming the different coins [Bitcoin and dogecoin] being manipulated by Musk means that he'll serve about 25 years.


My threads on /r/cryptocurrency have been removed due to censorship (https://old.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/xbco87/musk_is_going_to_jail_x4/?), so moving to Bitcoin.

But pump and dump in appearance isn't necessarily pump and dump. To get pump and dump out of it, you have to show intent.

Suppose you buy a stock and take profit. Did you pump and dump? No. Anybody who buys stock does it with the idea of making money. Get in while the getting is good, and get out if things look like they are going bad.

Musk is a big player. And it is good to check him out. But there is a difference between simply taking profit and intentionally pumping and dumping. It's up to the courts to decide.

8)

But how will any court prove that what Elon Musk did was a scheme of Pump and Dump? This situation assumes that there are victims who will file a claim to compensate for the damage. The court will not raise a case on its own.

Elon Musk is a good player in this market and is not naive enough to leave his opponents with loopholes through which they can topple him or any of his plans.

In any case, many public figures are carrying out the same scheme, and we have not heard that any of them will be legally pursued.

Actually it's illegal to pump and dump, but it's not illegal to advertise or even post what your heart says, let's say if I buy a coin that I believe will skyrocket I will buy it and put it on my twitter, this can be out of elation or sheer hope that others might buy it as well. Similarly, Musk also did the same, it's just that he is popular and I am not the coin start to pump as well, now nowhere in the tweets till now Musk has shown the one should Dump Doge, and Neither has he told that he has sold all his Doge. So this doesn't even constitute a complete pump and dump because only one element which is the pump is present here and not the dump.

https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2018-226

He did it and got away with fines...
If a similar thing happens, I'm pretty sure he'll pay another fine. He won't end up in jail, at least with the current situation where the government isn't that aggressive with influencers & paid shills.

there's nothing wrong with that.. because to be honest he's actually just advertising something and it's people's fault when he immediately invests without research first.. so I think it doesn't make sense when Elon Musk is imprisoned for reasons like you said

You're right because shilling or pump and dump scheme whatever you call it will always happen in the cryptocurrency market since the market is subject to prediction. I believe the problem is that some investors don't follow the right channel of crypto investment and determine their investment decision on influence tweets which is totally bad.
I don't see any reason why Elon Musk must be arrested for announcing buying a certain which is not lying about it.

I like that you think it's possible for the richest man in the world to go to jail.  It's a certain level of ignorance that should be admired.  Wouldn't it be great if rich and powerful people had to follow laws?  Maybe if them going to jail were a realistic possibility they wouldn't do things like make Epstein infamous. 

I feel pretty sure that 1) we're going to die, & 2) Elon Musk is never going to jail.

He won't step near a prison, nor should he.

You haven't outlined exactly where Elon Musk broke the law. Where are the violations that you're referring to in his twitter schemes. I don't like him, but I don't think his cult followers that put their funds into whatever shitcoin he tweets a picture of should be given any grace for their bad decision making. Government shouldn't be stepping in.

You're talking about what he did with Tesla and Bitcoin: there is nothing illegal about a company taking in an asset and selling it off. Happens all the time. Elon Musk did not manipulate the market. Rich people influence markets, it's always been this way.


/r/bitcoin and /r/cryptocurrency are cesspools for censorship and shilling, btw. Don't take it personally. The moderators are inept.

Elon Musk promises: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eS_eriOlzGc

https://i.imgur.com/dUfM2zt.png

People who defend him are mostly paid off idiots.

https://i.imgur.com/DUlZMty.png

I said this on another thread but Musk likes to play both sides of the aisle. Its so funny how the left gets so uptight about every aspect of life and the problem with the right is they just take whatever the left dishes out to them which is why I'm an independent, anarchist capitalist. Anyway this must be what you're all so mad about and I do find it a bit interesting:

Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal
https://jacobin.com/2022/12/twitter-files-censorship-content-moderation-intelligence-agencies-surveillance


All heil the Establishment (FBI/CIA/NSA/Mainstream media and social media) and the current THING we complain or agree with!!!!

I might not be very conversant with the legal implications of Elon Musk's pump-and-dump business strategy but recently investors sued celebrities such as Larry David, Tom Brady, and Stephen Curry for promoting FTX. Yes, we might not blame Musk for his actions because people need to research and gather information about businesses before investing. This is because relying on people's promotions or endorsement of a product might be disastrous. But I think celebrities should be held responsible for their actions because many people are always willing to follow them.

Recently there has been an increase in successful Ponzi schemes in my country because these Ponzi operators always partner with well-known celebrities to defraud the people. If the legislatures make laws that would make these celebrities responsible or accountable for what they promote, the latter would mind what they advertise.

Yup, and all the pieces start to click on places when you realize that he doesn't got a real degree in the first place so he avoids hard questions in the interviews
https://twitter.com/capitolhunters/status/1593307541932474368

It just shows that just because someone makes good investments doesn't mean he is the new renaissance man, or even an innovator.
If you have ever listen to a real genius and compare those interviews to elon, it's so obvious how much he is struggling on areas he is bragged to be genius of. And how much he is avoiding the real questions.

Insider trading allows him to make "good" investments.

Just a chat with a friend can't be illegal [except when that friend tells you about the next big deal]

Doge pump and dump action occuring again?

Tesla is playing the markets again, oddly enough.

Elon needs to go to prison, honestly.  ::)

As far as I know dogecoin is not a stock or a security, so pumping and dumping it is not a crime.

Additionally, I think that more regulations are the last thing that we need. Currently pumps and dumps cause much fewer problems than any government regulations might cause in the future.

Honestly I see nothing wrong with what his doing, his just a rich guy who loves cryptocurrencies and among all the currencies he choose which he loves and think will benefit him the most.
Perhaps in the aspect of Doge he is not the founder and have nothing in relation, so what is the tendency of him going to jail.
He is just a random investor like you and I, definitely his influence in the world will certainly affect the project his investing into may be due to his huge demand other which will make the coin to pump and many will also follow but we should know when he sells the project will certainly experience a dump.

^^^ I agree. And now the EU is threatening to shut X down in the EU if Musk doesn't ban Alternative media... EU To ‘Permanently Shut Down X’ If Musk Doesn’t Ban Alternative Media. - https://expose-news.com/2023/12/20/eu-to-permanently-shut-down-x-if-musk-doesnt-ban-alternative-media/,

The thing that Musk should consider doing is placing X on IPFS (https://www.ipfs.io/) where it can't be shut down - because it is distributed among thousands of servers - and where eliminating alternative media will be almost impossible without shutting the whole Internet down.

8)

Anyone interested in making a bet as to whether or not Elon Musk serves time in jail by a certain date (can’t let it go on forever) feel free to reach out to me as I’d be happy to accommodate you. I’m certain these folks claiming the richest man in the world will be going to jail would love the opportunity to put their money where their mouth is.

Sadly it is the way it is. People underestimate the power of people in high position in politics and also those who have some millions at their name, those people would not even spend a single day in prison, even if they tried to commit and hide some serious wrongdoing, like a felony. Now, if we extrapolate that to the wealthiest person of the planet, then it is obvious it would take more than simple pump and dump allegation against Elon Musk to even start a serios investigation against him.
At this point, I am almost convinced that kind of people could easily get away with murder or murder for hire, which is sad if we think about it.

So I do not think anyone in this section or even in this forum who believes Elon will ever step on a cell would be willing to put some money where their mouth is.

I hope op is not a lawyer because what he had listed and accused Elon Musk of doing is totally absurd. You don't have to write something that would end up making you yourself get fined for what you are accusing someone about. If you want to sue Elon Musk, you to lok for lots of evidence because I don't think Elon Musk has ever instructed anyone to buy Bitcoin or Doge coin. Anyone that is investing or have invested in crypto and have lost their funds did that based on the level of their finance. The market is risky and everyone need to understand that.