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Title: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Hydrogen on September 14, 2022, 10:30:30 PM Quote The Irish government is now paying 2,000 artists, musicians, writers, and performers a ‘basic income’ of €325 ($329) each week. The plan for the Basic Income for Artists was originally announced back in January 2022. The Minister for Culture and Arts is spending around €25m ($23.3M) on the initiative. Over 9,000 people applied to join the program, with 2,000 accepted. Those who were accepted into the program were selected anonymously and at random. According to the BBC, musicians, and artists make up the bulk of recipients, who will receive the stipend for three years. The basic income initiative was set up for those working in the arts by a task force appointed by the Irish Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sports and Media, Catherine Martin. The task force was created to suggest ways the arts could recover from the damage caused by the pandemic. One of the stipulations of joining the program is taking part in a research project to determine the impact of the payment. Dublin has the highest number of recipients of the Irish Basic Income for musicians grant, at 764. Cork has 212, and Galway has 148 recipients. The breakdown for recipients is 700 visual artists, 584 musicians, 204 film creatives, and 184 writers. Around 170 actors and others working on theater projects were also selected. That includes 32 dancers and choreographers, 13 circus artists, and 10 architects. 50 of the recipients work in the Irish language. The high demand for the basic income stipend was acknowledged by the government. Irish Minister for Tourism Catherine Martin says, “there will be a lot of disappointed people today who applied and didn’t get selected. I am very grateful to everyone who took the time to apply and I understand their disappointment.” “Ireland could lead the way on a new model to support people active in the sector, recognizing its importance to all people,” she adds. https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2022/09/12/irish-government-basic-income-artists-musicians/ .... Forms of UBI (Universal Basic Income) have been deployed recently. Above we see ireland offering UBI to artists and musicians. There are also crypto based forms of UBI such as the good dollar program: Quote Empowering Anyone To Onboard Into Crypto, Start Learning, And Join The Coming Wealth Boom. The GoodDollar protocol uses free market forces and the principles of social investing to create a stream of free digital currency. Anyone can receive real, free reserve-backed crypto straight to your phone, so you don’t need to invest in order to participate and learn. That is how we build a more inclusive digital economy, together. https://www.gooddollar.org/ I think denmark and perhaps a few other european nations are known for running stipend based (UBI) programs for college students. For them to be successful however the politicians running them need to be somewhat honest and reliable. Which may not be something every nation on earth has. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: jackg on September 14, 2022, 11:16:57 PM I think in theory it looks like a good idea but it'd be interesting to get a more robust programme for something like this in place (I'm not sure if they have one already). As in maybe offer guides on how similar people have made it in the past or offer this over a shorter timeframe (although that might ramp up the pressure too much).
I see a lot of people on social media trying to set up businesses and getting a good audience from it (whether the audience just enjoy watching the livestreams, are forced there by the algorithm or actively participate in the person's business is something I wouldn't know). The arts is a tentative industry at the moment imo (especially for actors/love performers) so this might do something to help realign that industry. I hope it encourages musicians and singers to make more/reasonable demands on record companies too if they're signed. I don't think the cryptospace for nfts is developed well enough to be decentralised to offer a way for these people to produce things and get recognised yet though either. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Maus0728 on September 15, 2022, 04:41:45 AM Meanwhile, in our country, when the government talks about giving you a project-based commissions related to visual arts(e.g., mural painting, storybooks designing) they either release your payment months after the job is finished or they underpay you so much that even two months' worth of rent can't cover.
If only most countries were like this, I doubt there would still be artists who suffered from inequity :'( Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Poker Player on September 15, 2022, 04:59:17 AM The problem with artists is that only a few of them manage to make a living from it, being the normal thing that they combine their passion with jobs that give them a living.
What this kind of help does is to stop them from looking for a main job, even if they are mediocre musicians or writers. In a market without intervention, the best ones live off their passion, others who are good but not so good have their passion as a part-time job and the worst ones disappear. What this does is to support mediocrity, instead of excellence. Having said that, I want to clarify that I am not against public aid to people with low income per se, but not as a universal solution offered by politicians to the problems created by themselves. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Leviathan.007 on September 16, 2022, 01:19:07 PM Some countries have recently started paying basic incomes to people who are unable to work and who do not have a normal income. But the organizations and governments have changed their minds over time and now they will pay a normal basic income to different people in their country. For example, in this case, paying a basic income to artists and musicians can make a big difference because they will work for money anymore and they are not under pressure because of economic issues or they will have fewer economic problems which can help them in their lives.
Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Gyfts on September 16, 2022, 02:15:11 PM The idea here being that Ireland is looking to restore it's tourism and entertainment sector, so they're issuing a UBI to produce creative content.
My guess is this will have a negative ROI, as with most UBI expenditures. The government isn't as good as allocating funds as the market would allow. Meaning, if the tourism industry is sunk due to COVID, investing into UBI for musicians and artists in order to restore a dead industry that the market hasn't afforded a recovery for yet is money down the drain. UBI only works if there was some seismic economic event that put a large segment of the working population out the workforce. COVID and the entertainment tourism industry hardly qualifies. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: electronicash on September 16, 2022, 02:30:19 PM artist doesn't sound like a job but i'd like to get a basic income by just posing around the alley's corner sitting on the invisible chair with my hat upside down in front. so whats the rob? it doesn't really look like its going to help the economy. $330 is a nice basic income hope they are not pressured to produce NFT art thru the governments NFT market. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: stompix on September 16, 2022, 02:59:42 PM Some countries have recently started paying basic incomes to people who are unable to work and who do not have a normal income. But the organizations and governments have changed their minds over time and now they will pay a normal basic income to different people in their country. All these will stop and never be mentioned again, UBI was a failure and no leftist will be recognized this failure wherever it was tried, they've tried spinning the result in any possible way, like counting those that sought to be employed as numbers that would mean anything. Finland is the greatest example, they started this in 2017 and killed it in 2019 since it was just money thrown away and nobody actually did something to improve their status, nearly all of them ended up unemployed for real. The actual results were so bad that Finland got the opposite way altogether after this: Quote The Finnish government argued that existing unemployment benefits were so high and the system so rigid that a person who was unemployed might choose not to take a job because they would risk losing money — the higher your earnings, the lower your social benefits. The basic-income trial was designed as an incentive for people to start working. But last December, the Finnish Parliament passed a bill to take the country's welfare system in quite the opposite direction. The new "activation model" law requires job seekers to work a minimum of 18 hours or enter a training program within three months and stipulates that if they don't manage to find a job, they lose some of their benefits. UBI is just a utopia that as any utopia will never work, and if does for 1 or 2 years what's next will be a hundred times worse. Just look at what's happening right now We had people doing nothing and getting paid, what has this led to? Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: fiulpro on September 16, 2022, 04:28:19 PM Meanwhile, in our country, when the government talks about giving you a project-based commissions related to visual arts(e.g., mural painting, storybooks designing) they either release your payment months after the job is finished or they underpay you so much that even two months' worth of rent can't cover. If only most countries were like this, I doubt there would still be artists who suffered from inequity :'( The countries that you mentioned are basically the ones who are developing and thus they don't just have a problem paying rightfully but they also have a problem enhancing the existing talent in their own countries, I honestly would like to state how the industrialization literally killed the whole hand textile market and at the end people moved from hand textiles to buying the industrial products in their own countries thus the product made of hand that can be sold for 100's of dollars is now sold on streets for 1$ each, which people buy and export and thus the whole cycle keeps continuing as well. I do think that at the end of the day, it's amazing that they are " respecting" artists and also doing their bit to help them financially. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Captain Corporate on September 16, 2022, 04:45:14 PM The "idea" is good and noble, we need creators to have a financial backing so that they do not feel obliged to do something out of necessity for money, the idea stems from all the way back to 15th century italy for example, all those famous leonardo da vinci style artists got paid a patronage to keep doing what they are doing and not worry about money. At the end of the day thats a good thing, BUT we should be serious and realize that 330 dollars is nothing, in Ireland its definitely good for you to go cover your tab for the week in a pub maybe, but thats about as much as it can cover, or at least maybe bills. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Cryptomultiplier on September 16, 2022, 04:45:38 PM Meanwhile, in our country, when the government talks about giving you a project-based commissions related to visual arts(e.g., mural painting, storybooks designing) they either release your payment months after the job is finished or they underpay you so much that even two months' worth of rent can't cover. I do think that at the end of the day, it's amazing that they are " respecting" artists and also doing their bit to help them financially. If only most countries were like this, I doubt there would still be artists who suffered from inequity :'( Any development by the government to help artists financially is a welcomed idea. Artists have nowadays resorted to other means to survive since the pandemic and as passionate as some may be, having a family to carter for, bills to pay and sourcing of materials for work may be the biggest challenge they have to face in this current economy. Creatives are needed more in today's society due to the fact that their thinking outside the box mentality can assist a governments economic, political, structural and educational standings. With corruption in government however, it is noteworthy to be mindful of persons who would handle such allowances, so as to get the best out of an initiative as this. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Flexystar on September 16, 2022, 04:51:49 PM What an encouraging news for the Irish artists. I am so glad that Irish Government is thinking about the Arts and Music industry with such deep thought. This will definitely motivate all the artist in the country and anyone willing to work in that country as an artist. In the modern world it's value is always deprecating because it's too much concentrated field. Artists require huge platform, hard work and their entire work depends on the popularity. Many times that forms the basis of their income. For example, someone investing in art gallery to display their art, filling up exhibitions etc. This could take both money and their ultimate times. It's possible they may never succeed even with perfect art.
Many of the artist face challenges to earn decent money in that way. Now I am not sure what was Irish Government's first take on this, but this will really help the artist and musician to survive average+ life. :) Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: trendcoin on September 16, 2022, 07:16:09 PM The "idea" is good and noble, we need creators to have a financial backing so that they do not feel obliged to do something out of necessity for money, the idea stems from all the way back to 15th century italy for example, all those famous leonardo da vinci style artists got paid a patronage to keep doing what they are doing and not worry about money. ... All known historical data is that Leonardo Da Vinci left many of his works unfinished (https://www.dailyartmagazine.com/the-unfinished-works-of-leonardo-da-vinci/). Therefore, his job offer may have been rejected by the Ottoman Sultan Bayezid II (https://editions.covecollective.org/content/leonardo-da-vincis-letter-sultan-beyazid-ii). :) Leonardo Da Vinci was an extraordinary genius. What doesn't work even for him will definitely not work for anyone. :) 1- States will cause inflation by printing more money to provide a universal basic income. 2- Those who benefit from universal basic income will never want to work again (%99). 3- When working people see their earnings melt in the face of inflation, they will begin to lose their desire to work. 4- After all, I don't care about some allegedly empirical data, this plan is garbage in my mind because universal basic income has the potential to create a non-working and non-productive society. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Hydrogen on September 16, 2022, 10:16:04 PM BTW.
Is there anyone here who has experience using crypto based UBI platforms like: https://www.gooddollar.org/ Crypto based UBI seems like a new concept and trend. People are always comparing new crypto initiatives with early adoption bitcoin. Perhaps we finally have a winner here? Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Oceat on September 16, 2022, 11:59:22 PM Meanwhile, in our country, when the government talks about giving you a project-based commissions related to visual arts(e.g., mural painting, storybooks designing) they either release your payment months after the job is finished or they underpay you so much that even two months' worth of rent can't cover. If only most countries were like this, I doubt there would still be artists who suffered from inequity :'( The countries that you mentioned are basically the ones who are developing and thus they don't just have a problem paying rightfully but they also have a problem enhancing the existing talent in their own countries, I honestly would like to state how the industrialization literally killed the whole hand textile market and at the end people moved from hand textiles to buying the industrial products in their own countries thus the product made of hand that can be sold for 100's of dollars is now sold on streets for 1$ each, which people buy and export and thus the whole cycle keeps continuing as well. I do think that at the end of the day, it's amazing that they are " respecting" artists and also doing their bit to help them financially. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Synchronice on September 17, 2022, 07:15:13 PM This kind of attitude never works for good. People are just becoming lazy, a lot of them even avoid jobs in order to not lose their basic income.
This world is so unfair, one lazy artist gets basic income out of thin air while another person is breaking his back, doing manual labor jobs to get money for food and rent. Way out of a situation is the following: Competent ones win the game, others have to either become more competent or give up and do another thing. If Cillian Murphy managed to succeed, others can do too, basic income will only make them worse. The idea here being that Ireland is looking to restore it's tourism and entertainment sector, so they're issuing a UBI to produce creative content. Does the Irish government really think that it will significantly increase tourism or even have any effect? No one will travel to Ireland to see a live theatre show, people prefer Netflix.On another hand, more people will really visit Ireland if rent prices in Dublin will come down a little bit :) Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: $anounimus$ on September 18, 2022, 06:41:39 AM BTW. Is there anyone here who has experience using crypto based UBI platforms like: https://www.gooddollar.org/ Crypto based UBI seems like a new concept and trend. People are always comparing new crypto initiatives with early adoption bitcoin. Perhaps we finally have a winner here? That's an interesting question, but I can't say I'm saying I've used it. I think this should be discussed as one of UBI's crypto programs for the development of the crypto economy and how it applies to the world of social welfare and whether there will be use cases that UBI can take advantage of in the future. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Lucius on September 18, 2022, 03:34:44 PM I really love Irish highland music, their folk music is just mesmerizing. Infact they deserve far more than that. It's sad that in today's tech world people really don't value the music and culture. Very few people now go to Opera and concerts. Maybe people don't go to the opera or to concerts in some countries where it's banned or doesn't even exist - but opera is very popular in Ireland (https://www.wexfordopera.com/media/news/previously-announced-programme-rescheduled-to-2021-a-reimagined-online-fest/), although many such events had to be canceled due to the pandemic. People in countries with high standards go to such events much more, and buying a ticket for such an event is not an easy task. Regarding the distribution of money to artists, is that any more strange than the stimulus checks that have been distributed in the US on several occasions? If a country wants to share money with its residents in one way or another, it is a matter of their internal policy. What I know is that more and more Irish people are leaving the country, and that Irish employment agencies are going all over the EU in search of workers and offering them more than good conditions if they want to work in Ireland. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Rikafip on September 18, 2022, 04:16:44 PM Giving money to people for absolutely nothing in return? What could possibly go wrong. UBI is like communism as it works only on paper but when you try to implement in the real life, you soon realize that it simply can't work. World is not a Star Trek utopia.
What I know is that more and more Irish people are leaving the country, and that Irish employment agencies are going all over the EU in search of workers and offering them more than good conditions if they want to work in Ireland. Honestly, I am not surprised that so many Irish people are leaving the country. I have a few close relatives there so I visited them a couple of times and I didn't like what I see and could never live there. Its a weird combination of 3rd world country infrastructure and 1st world salaries, where bunch of people are getting loads of money for doing nothing/very little. It might be an interesting place to live if you are 20yo and all you want is to party and have a good time, but raising kids there? No thnx.Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: avikz on September 18, 2022, 06:28:16 PM It's so kind of Irish government to provide a basic income to the artists. But countries like Ireland can afford it given the population is less and stands second in per capita income. So it all makes sense for them! It helps in circulation of money as well as increases the purchasing power of the people. In turn, it increases demand and money flows into the economy. It's beneficial for a small country like Ireland.
But in bigger countries and especially where the corruption rate is high, this is not a feasible solution. Like in India, if the government tries to start similar basic income schemes, most of the money will flow into the hands of corrupt politicians and their close aids. A very minor percentage of population will actually get the benefit. It is practically impossible for India to maintain sanity of such initiatives. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Webetcoins on September 18, 2022, 07:19:04 PM Meanwhile, in our country, when the government talks about giving you a project-based commissions related to visual arts(e.g., mural painting, storybooks designing) they either release your payment months after the job is finished or they underpay you so much that even two months' worth of rent can't cover. That su*ks man. Not only that the payment is late but it was also an underpay while for some, they already being paid even the job isn't started yet. It's sad but that's how things work. Every country has its own kind of government. There are some who are corrupt and there are some who aren't and knows how to value their people.If only most countries were like this, I doubt there would still be artists who suffered from inequity :'( These are only a program and they aren't guaranteed that all are going to be given like what happened in the Irish government. So many people have applied and yet, only a few are selected and worst is that it's being done randomly. I think it would be better if they select the artist who performs better because they deserve it the most. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: virasisog on September 19, 2022, 05:31:15 AM Meanwhile, in our country, when the government talks about giving you a project-based commissions related to visual arts(e.g., mural painting, storybooks designing) they either release your payment months after the job is finished or they underpay you so much that even two months' worth of rent can't cover. That su*ks man. Not only that the payment is late but it was also an underpay while for some, they already being paid even the job isn't started yet. It's sad but that's how things work. Every country has its own kind of government. There are some who are corrupt and there are some who aren't and knows how to value their people.If only most countries were like this, I doubt there would still be artists who suffered from inequity :'( These are only a program and they aren't guaranteed that all are going to be given like what happened in the Irish government. So many people have applied and yet, only a few are selected and worst is that it's being done randomly. I think it would be better if they select the artist who performs better because they deserve it the most. I believe artists are always underpaid. Only a few are fortunate to be successful otherwise many end up showing their work to the people in search of appreciation In our country, many good artists are unappreciated and underrated. They don't pay them enough as if the projects that they're doing are just easy. If more countries would pay accordingly, the arts industry will grow and foster. If they only have to choose among their artist, I hope that they will pick the best and most deserving but also appreciate those small-time artists who only want to be noticed and feel valued. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Rikafip on September 19, 2022, 09:05:00 AM It helps in circulation of money as well as increases the purchasing power of the people. In turn, it increases demand and money flows into the economy. Increased purchasing power? You do realize that in order to get the money, government has to take the money from other people via taxes? But in bigger countries and especially where the corruption rate is high, this is not a feasible solution. Like in India, if the government tries to start similar basic income schemes, most of the money will flow into the hands of corrupt politicians and their close aids. A very minor percentage of population will actually get the benefit. It is practically impossible for India to maintain sanity of such initiatives. Its not a feasible solution anywhere, even in the most developed countries in the world. For example, take a look at Finland which is at the top of every possible list when it comes to quality of life. They ran UBI experiment for 2 years, and the final conclusion is that it was a failure that didn't help to boost the employment and the only ones who benefited were those that were paid to do nothing (who would have guessed that :D). Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: stompix on September 20, 2022, 02:07:16 AM What I know is that more and more Irish people are leaving the country, and that Irish employment agencies are going all over the EU in search of workers and offering them more than good conditions if they want to work in Ireland. Hmm, and where did you get that data from? Census 2022: Ireland's population hits record levels (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-61910927) Maybe they are searching for more workers because they don't have any more resources to fuel growth in the country as it has also hit record employment levels? Employment Rate in Ireland increased to 73.50 percent in the second quarter of 2022 from 72.80 percent in the first quarter of 2022 https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/employment-rate Anyhow, I'm starting to understand why some many cheers on this Utopia UBI, most of them are the ones that have stored a few satoshis in a wallet and think in 10 years will be richer than everyone by doing nothing, no wonder this topic has attracted so many cheers from them. It helps in circulation of money as well as increases the purchasing power of the people. In turn, it increases demand and money flows into the economy. Increased purchasing power? You do realize that in order to get the money, government has to take the money from other people via taxes? No way, it;'s far easier than that, you just have to print money and give it away. Problem .... solved... :D Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: theskillzdatklls on September 20, 2022, 03:00:23 AM I have to add in ... it's rich that "artists" are starting to get UBI right as AI development in this area is going absolutely ballistic the past couple of months with DALLE-2 and more notably through Stable Diffusion (the more based and fully open source public version).
These apps for pennies will out perform these people not even able to produce their own income by orders of magnitude and further more, this is just the beginning. https://odysee.com/@yannickilcher:3/ml-news-stable-diffusion-takes-over!:6 That video was just released and the scope of the problem is beyond insanity for those interested in understanding how big this is. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Lucius on September 20, 2022, 10:24:02 AM Hmm, and where did you get that data from? From a not very relevant source (https://www.jutarnji.hr/native/isplati-li-se-i-dalje-preseliti-u-irsku-mjesecno-ustedimo-vise-od-10-000-kuna-15246079), local media and the experiences of some people from my country who work there. They are of course quite satisfied with the conditions they find there, because they can earn more than twice as much as here and still save every month. Of course, there is also the attitude towards the worker, which is hard to imagine here. Quote There is really work here and you can make a lot of progress, mostly because their working class is leaving the country. They target countries such as England, the USA and New Zealand, although I don't understand why, because Ireland is still the country with the fastest growing economy in Europe... As soon as we landed in Ireland, people from xxx welcomed us. They organized our trip to the accommodation, which they also paid for for the first six weeks. As an employee, they refunded the price of the ticket, and they even found Irena a job in one of the partner stores... Honestly, I am not surprised that so many Irish people are leaving the country. I have a few close relatives there so I visited them a couple of times and I didn't like what I see and could never live there. Its a weird combination of 3rd world country infrastructure and 1st world salaries, where bunch of people are getting loads of money for doing nothing/very little. It might be an interesting place to live if you are 20yo and all you want is to party and have a good time, but raising kids there? No thnx. I did not know that there is such a view of Ireland, and that someone thinks that our country is better for raising children than Ireland - and I am honestly surprised that they have such a bad infrastructure, considering that they are not some kind of poor third world country. Title: Re: Irish Government Pays Artists & Musicians $330 ‘Basic Income’ Allowance Post by: Rikafip on September 20, 2022, 12:32:43 PM I did not know that there is such a view of Ireland, and that someone thinks that our country is better for raising children than Ireland - and I am honestly surprised that they have such a bad infrastructure, considering that they are not some kind of poor third world country. Well, that "3rd world country infrastructure" might have been an exaggeration, but it is miles away from how it should be, considering the average salary there and life standard in general. I expected sort of Germany type of country, hearing how easy is to find a well paid job and it was a huge disappointment to see all that chaos. And its not just, but all the people I know (including those with kids) that haven't left already are planning to stay for 10 years max in order to qualify for pension, and then return. |