Bitcoin Forum

I know all the members who are into bitcoin and crypto. We heard a sentence that whales are manipulating the market. Manipulating! It was a little confusing for me when I heard this the first time, but when I actually understand what actual manipulating should look like, there are lots of members who also want to know what it might look like to see that picture. And see the game how they played it 4 hours ago. They invested in knc worth 65+ btc, so they added value to knc, but it appears that they have already sold 52+ btc worth of knc after 4 hours. They are pumping and dumping the market price. This is how they actually play the game. Just think, you saw that the KNC price went up when they invested 65+ BTC, and after hours you saw a major dump on KNC after they sold 52+ BTC worth of KNC. Now we think yes, we got an entry point because it dumped, so it will pump again. But you might not have noticed that they are still holding 13+ btc worth of knc. So he can easily dump your fund, which means you invest in the price. Then they dump it again by selling their portfolio. You will panic and sell at a loss. They will again buy and play their usual game. I hope now you understand before investing or trading how much research you should have done and don't take an entry on a sudden pump and dump moment. Thank you so much if you understand what I actually wanted to tell you. Your comments will be appreciated by me.

This pump and dump is very much common crypto space, even in stock market too though volatility in stock is far less than in crypto. There are few groups which promote such pump and dump and if anyone buys the pump, they are much likely to incur a big loss.
This most of the times happen in the time of altseason.

There's a lot of related activities that sounds being manipulated in cryptocurrency especially if your focus attention is to go after the ICOs on projects that you're not familiar with, your barely see the people's reputation online, no any form of conducted research on them, you didn't understand their project objective, memebers, and the information about it all, what you see online got you enticed and you opted in for them with your funds, no wonder many often refers to many altcoins as shitcoins because of things related like this, becareful, if you must invest, bitcoin is your first and major recommendation as digital currency which you should start with.

This is a frequent tactics the whales know how to play well, and amongst the reason people don't believe in a coin. Also this whales has other tactics they use and that is buying Influences and if they already popular they make use of their own influences. We all have this business tycoons we all admire, follow, but their books and believe their theories now this make it easy for them. They can set one up to buying a particular coin by just speaking on the potentials and they supporting the coin. Many people can actually don't won’t to research but rather choose to follow the influences of whales or crypto influencers we have seen many projects rise by such influences but only a small portion still stays relevant.

There is no singular form of manipulation, it could happen in various ways;
• Pump and dump: here a whale buys up a large amount of a small cap asset and moves the price up, attracting investors. When more people start to buy at that price, they dump,
• News and media can also be used to manipulate trader sentiment. Social media influencers are now becoming more popular to shill projects,
• Governments can also manipulate the market with policies they adopt.

Bitcoin as the most popular and adopted  cryptocurrency is somewhat inoculated from the effects of manipulation. It's mostly unrewarding and expensive to attempt.

I don't blame the whale community because it is all about the business for everyone. We can compare crypto whales to our daily physical activities and the whales we meet on daily market activities. These real life whales withhold their goods when they get information of scarcity or shortage of supply from manufacturers and this will cause price increase. They can withdraw their product from the market if they want to cause artificial increase. Crypto whales are not far from same strategy to shake the market for additional money, that is the circle of business strategy that we know.

There are many pump and dump groups out there mostly on telegram and Twitter and the sad thing is that they have thousands of followers who blindly believe every thing they publish without making their own research.
The bright side is that they can only manipulate the price of coins which have no value in first place (small projects or weak team) or coins with low market cap.
Only few influencers can manipulate the price of top ranked coins.

This is what actually happens in the market, there will be whales that will pump a coin although in this case, it may not totally be a whale but sort of a rich person as we can say.
And then, when it's already reflected in the market that there's a green ++ showing on that token. For sure, traders and investors will be enticed for buying it and that's how they slaughter the new entries for that token. Usually, it happens to those altcoins that have been known like meme or those that are on the news and trend.

This isn't new in the crypto world and most of them are those new projects, and their token becomes a pump and dump because it's manipulated.
That's why we should look closely at what we invested, investigations are a must because investing in crypto is very crucial, there are too many big players that wanted to play the market to gain profit.

This kind of project sometimes has investment schemers reap a large amount of profit by making poor investors becomes a loser because of manipulating the market.

Remember how Elon Musk manipulated the market before?

I don't really know what kind utility this alt/token provides. But if a sell order of 3% can manipulate the whole market of that alt/token and cause around 25% fall ^{(as of this time today in cmc)}, then investing such coin is probably too risky just like these common new shitcoin.

That is not all of the pumpers' money that shows in this stats though. Basically the actual pumpers buy the shitcoin before the pump begins then they call up the idiots to buy the expensive shitcoin and as they start buying some others (with bots, etc.) notice and start buying on the rise. Then the pumpers start dumping as the idiots continue buying the expensive shitcoin.
It is also obvious from the difference between the volumes (65 in, 52 out) that shows the bag holders who held on to the shitcoin hoping it goes up and gives them profit.

Technically what you explained is just a correction during the pump not necessarily the pumpers. After each sudden jump in price of anything, there is always a dump when traders pull out their profit after reaching a certain %.
Remember the second group I said join in as they see the pump starting? This kind of "correction" is usually them selling to get their quick profit out.

It is a high risk method of making quick profit from market manipulation. You see a rocket, you jump on but you jump off quickly too before the rocket crashes!

Pump and Dump? Manipulation? Whales buying and selling coins short term?
Nothing new for me and for some here.

What's the point then? Panic sell at a loss? Most of the investors who are panicking here are newbies and those who have been here for quite some time might know what to do into that situation already. This affects traders at least and not those who are holding for mid to long term.

We know that manipulation is happening for a very long time already and what's my strategy into it? I'm just buying long-term coins like Bitcoin and Ethereum. In that way, I'm less prone to pump and dump as these 2 are harder to manipulate plus I will have lesser stress. I already saw many people (mostly influencers) pumping a particular coin and then will sell it immediately and leave those investors who bought late at a loss.

For us its whales manipulation but for them with huge bags probably they are just buying and selling to increase their holdings. Or to say scalping some tokens and coins. The problem here is they are doing it with big funds that why we can feel it as retailers since we only got a tiny pie on that part of they are trading. So pumping and dumping due to this isnt actually illegal cause they are doing it same way we do the only difference is they are risking so much money in the process.

This is normal in a bear market, no whale will want to hold their BTC bag and watch the price goes down whereas they can make profits from dumping the bag and buying again, this happens with altcoins too, when the market starts turning around you will see that whales will start moving their BTC out of the exchanges.

I would say it's far more common in a bull market and bear market where it's very easy to lure newbies into buying the next x1000 gem or shitcoin. The pumps seem to be very impressive only for people to wake up into a sad reality in the bear market.

Keep in mind Bitcoin is the most volatile currency. So whales love to Play with that. They sell because want to dump the price by creating panic. So prices become more dumped and panic sellers out. So whales will start to accumulate once again, when people see the green market they jump again. That's how rich become more rich and poor become poorer. It's important to detect whale's movements and follow them. So you may make some decent money.

I've been talking about a similar thing on Bitcoin for years now, especially since they made the futures ETF and then allowed people to short bitcoin. When this wasn't possible the rich players were to lazy to convert their money into BTC and thought it to be too risky for them, but since the futures opened up they allowed them to safely make big money by teaming up with people who already had bitcoin.
This works good for both parties because every time a bitcoin whale sells the futures fiat investor copies their move on a futures exchange and shares profits while the bitcoin holder takes all the risk by holding coins on exchanges.

I have this to tell you OP. Don't play their game. They're here to take your coins and they pray on those who play with big leverage. They have enough money to liquidate you in minutes and they're doing it every day. Don't think their goal is to destroy bitcoin or dump it to 10k or something. They want it to thrive so they can keep doing what they're doing. They don't want to make everyone to lose everything on the market and leave. A chicken that lays eggs is worth more alive than dead.

Sometimes those groups call themselves as forecasting groups (predict crypto prices). They can attack beginners to join since it is free to join the groups and get free predictions regularly. The beginners don't know if the predictions are the way to trap the beginners. They suggest beginners to buy when they are selling, and they suggest beginners to hold once the price drops. They tell the beginners that it is just a temporary drop, it will recover soon. In reality, the price is getting more decreases.

*It is one of the ways done by whales as well.

Altcoins have often been about pump and dump. Many view altcoins for an opportunistic coin and once they get to invest and it pumps, they sooner get to withdraw and dump it then, its over for that coin. Unto the next they go and like that, they keep making money off the greedy, ignorant and traders who hopes it would bounce back. Unfortunately, it never does and your money is gone!

Best way to stay safe, invest in bitcoin and each time you do, make your investments with what you could afford to lose and you would be fine. Just have in mind that you would have to wait a long time upon your investment to yield profit while you improve your knowledge of the trade.

This has always been the rule of the game. Those who could manipulate the market would do it to their advantage. And especially among low-volume coins or pairs, these pump and dump operators could easily manipulate the price, perhaps with the help also of their social media groups, channels, and accounts.

So to the newbies, first, avoid signal channels. They're mostly just using you. Second, if you want to trade, choose coins or pairs that have large volume. Manipulation is a hard thing to do when there's high volume.

What I see with the OP is just mere trading, nothing manipulative here. The manipulation of the market is possible, but not in this case. Whales are like banks, big financial institutions and government in the traditional trading, they can indeed manipulate. But this only happens when they are collectively pumping or removing liquidity to or from a certain asset.

If this is consistent, then they are manipulating the market through their links. This means that many parties or high liquidity must be involved to carefully perpetrate this unlawful scheme. But this one expressed by the OP is mere trading to me. 52+ and 65+ BTC transactions are normal because they are all below $1.3M, not even up to a billion dollars. How could this seriously affect the crypto market?

It is until they are buying in their billions or almost and are consistent in doing so that we could tag them manipulative.

If you're talking about the explanation provided by the Op. Yes, market manipulation happens in this case.
But the OP seems not understand that market manipulation are done in different ways.

Maybe because I did not start my trading career during the Crypto era makes me more vast in trading knowledge than an average person on BTT. A lot are being wrongly termed correct on BTT, and many that read them automatically accept them as a fact, but in practice, they are not

Any trading volume of $1.3M should not be termed as a manipulation, traders/investors are free to move in their big volumes. Even the traders with higher liquidity are free to trade without being tagged manipulative unless it is clear they are manipulating the market with their trading actions and inactions, which might or might not tally with some other manipulative huge volume traders.

Such market manipulation is a common practice by many whales. They even use bots to do it. In I also found several bots that actively buy and sell simultaneously. But if the manipulation is done by the whales of course they will do the game by pumping it first, then if everyone gathers and starts buying it and the volume goes up they will dump and take some profit. It looks very easy to get a lot of profit, but they also use a lot of capital. quite comparable but the casualties that will be caused are also many. So you need to be vigilant and don't be tempted to join FOMO.

This is a good advise. All that glitters is not what you think them to be, telegram groups are mostly out there for selfish reason and personal gain. They only advise you to buy while they are already selling  that will bring you losses and the coins won't get up back to fit again except the coin has volume and tradeable then we can expect a recovering.

This pump and dump project could also be a good way to make some profit u know mostly if you have a good insider who can tell every move from the project. This is the most riskiest part of the investment pipeline but it can make millionaires in different low currencies over night. I am not advising anyone to try this please but i felt its something to take into account

Whales have found out that this crypto market is easy to manipulate and now, it become a common practice that always appears on our minds when there is a pump in prices. I'm not going to wonder why this gonna happen in the market but to think is that this is also the way these whales make a profit from moving it up and down, and taking advantage of those who are new and emotional investors. I'm not going to say it was threat to us but honestly, on the other hand this manipulation makes some people to earn more profit.

You are right and if one knows how to position trades, it will be easy for a trader to make few profits from the market since the .market had been ranging for long now. This is the time when scalping can be applied to the market to make trades with little movement in market price.
The market is dipping now and this is the opportunity many traders are looking for to position a trade in this dip and allow it to move a little bit before taking profits. Bit trading can also be applied here which can capture consistent profits with every little movement in price.

Is there manipulation in the crypto industry or especially in the crypto market?
This also means in some things that can be attempted to be manipulated, the existence of pump and dump schemes, and also various other schemes so that people are influenced and eventually follow their path. Indeed, the market may be difficult to manipulate directly, but if they have been able to manipulate people's thoughts and make a breakthrough in the market, whether it's a pump or a dump, like it or not, we will certainly continue to follow the path they have made, right? It's not easy for us, especially small traders to fight their way, who are we, how many assets do we have? It will be very difficult. Surely we will be influenced to follow the flow. Therefore, what we must hold is self-control over the market itself, so as not to get too carried away and can anticipate the best things.

That is why low market cap coins are highly risky for investment since they can be easily manipulated with minimum value of BTC like 100 bitcoins are enough but it is less possible with high market cap coins for example to manipulate bitcoin even 50K bitcoins may shatter the market only for very little time, so for short term investment never pick low market cap coins.

It is always easy to manipulate altcoin markets because they either have small markets or have big manipulators even if it is easier to manipulate smaller altcoins.
It also doesn't take nearly as much as what you said to manipulate small altcoins. Sometimes even 0.1 to 1BTC is enough to start the pump or dump in hundreds of them. In fact a lot of pump and dumps in 2017 were with very small amounts of bitcoin.

This is actually dilemma to get into the dump and pump, and it is like gambling, especially for the newsbies.
On one side, we may utilize market manipulation or dump and pump to collect or earn more profits. But we actually don't ow the exact time to buy and sell the decision. Consequently, this is very risky. We may get very high profit from this, but consequently, we can also lose a lot of money form this.
That is why if we are new to this and not really popular with this market situation, it is better to save our money into Bitcoin or top coins for long term holding.

Yep, indeed manipulation but it is not new in the space and won't be going anywhere.  Why?  Well look no further than the stocks and commodities markets where this is still rampant, although there are selectively enforced penalties if caught manipulating, but typically nothing you can't buy your way out with a fine and no admission of guilt.  Appears eventually they will do something similar with crypto.

Instead, we take those opportunities if the market is down and when some investors are busy selling their coins due to panic. We need to be practical in the other way also knowing that whales have the capabilities to twist the price trend and if we can't adjust how this works, it was we also who suffer losses. That is how important we know to analyze the market trend, not just jump without any idea otherwise, our expectations seems fail.