Bitcoin Forum

Hi,

I am considering myself a newbie even if I own some BTC for a long time, from earlier than 2015 .
I own btc, but I didn"t do anything with them a long, long time. The wallet that I currently have is the one which needs to download terabites of data before it makes BTC available to use. I don't remember its name, but it is one of thouse oldest wallets.
I need curretly 3 things to do:
1. To move to another wallet.
2. To enable myself to claim forks to get them. Preferably later and without to hurry up.
3. Start using BTC, spending, selling them etc.

But as I was not following the changes in the  BTC  world for many years, currently I don't know how to handle all this.

I shall be grateful if you guys  explain for me things like you would explain for a little kid, with as simple words as possible.
I asked questions at Stackexchange, and good people answered, but answers were so advanced for me that I didn't understand anything :-) I understood nothing at all :-)

My questions are:

1. Can one use BTC now but claim forks later for all previous years?
Or is it so that when one spends BTC, it authomatically makes it impossible to claim forks?
Please answer simply, like for a kid, for example: "yes, you can claim forks for previous years later even if you spend all of your BTC now", or "First you need to claim forks, because spent BTC authomatically means lost possibility to claim forks". 
Answers that I would understand should be on the level like this :-) Not a higher level :-)
Or even like this:
"Get forks first, then use BTC."
or
"You can use BTC now and get forks later, there is no hurry".
I would be glad if there were possibily to use BTC now and get forks later, because it is very complicated for me to learn how one claims forks, so I need time, and best for me were  to move this thing to do about forks to the future.
If such possibility exists, should I do anything special in order not to lose this possibility when I move my BTC to a new wallet?

2. Moving to a new wallet. Which wallet is safe, convenient and simple to use for a non-advanced user like me?
Is it so that to move my BTC to a new wallet, I need 2 things:
First download a new wallet.
Then "copy" a "key" from the old wallet and "paste" it to the new wallet?
It is the way the transfer of BTC between 2 wallets works?
I heard the word "export key". Does it mean just "copy" and "paste" the key?

Thank you very much guys and sorry for my being so unfamiliar with things that are probably basic.

Or may be  just give me an instruction (like you would do for a kid or like for a grandfather :-)) about how and in which order to complete 3 tasks:

1. To move to another wallet. Which one?
How?
2. To enable myself to claim forks to get them. Preferably later and without to hurry up.
3. Start using BTC, spending, selling them etc.


I shall be grateful for your answers and explanations.

answer 1. I would defenately tell you to ALWAYS spend your BTC first BEFORE claiming any forks. Only claim forks after your btc wallet is completely empty (any leftover funds moved to a new, clean, fresh wallet). If not, there might be issues like replay attacks or malware in forked clients and you could potentially lose your btc. It's much better to lose your forked coins than losing your btc.

BTW, you know you can only claim funds on future forks, right? If you buy btc now, you won't be able to claim bch or bsv or....

answer 2. Depends on how much you hold and what you plan to do with it. If you're only experimenting and need a wallet for a limited amount of funds and a lot of learning, i'd probably go for electrum. If you plan to invest a lot and not move it around all that often, but you still want convenience, i'd go for a hardware wallet... A ledger or something... If you want even more security, you could go for an airgapped wallet, or a properly generated paper wallet, but those kinds of setups need to be done *right*, it's harder to set them up, and if you mess up you could end up with a less secure environment than if you'd use a hardware wallet.

Not possible. Even bitcoin which is the full client won't require more than 400 gigabyte.

As long as you have the coins before (not after) the fork. Read this to understand more about it:

LoyceV's Bitcoin Fork claiming guide (and service) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2836875.0)

You do not necessarily have to spend your bitcoin before having control over the fork coins, it's yours, you can do whatever you want with any of them. 

Why not try buy hardware wallet: Open source hardware wallet (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5288971.0)

Or go for electrum code storage: https://www.google.com/search?q=Electrum%20cold%20storage

Key importation would work. But if you used online wallet before and the amount is huge and you want to use cold storage for it, best to just transfer the bitcoin instead of importing the private key.

Yes. It is actually preferred that you move the BTC to the new address first, then claim any forks from the old addresses.


There is a topic at the top of this board: [General] Bitcoin Wallets - Which, what, why? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1631151.0) I suggest you take a look at it. There is also a list of recommended wallets at: https://bitcoin.org/en/choose-your-wallet

I suppose each of these wallets are safe if downloaded from an official source. ^{(I suggest you learn how to verify GPG signatures.)} In terms of convenience and simplicity, that is a matter of personal taste. I personally prefer the Electrum wallet or one of the open source hardware wallets.

Claiming forks means you are exposing your wallet private key and this contains risk. You should know you use your private key to claim forks, not your Bitcoin. You must have Bitcoin at the fork time, if you don't have it, you have a balance is 0, so claiming does not give you anything.

Because of private key leak, you must move your Bitcoin to another wallet (not another address in a same wallet) and after that, you can start claiming forks.

Choose non custodial wallets to download. Then verify what you download. Next, install it, create your wallet. Back it up. Test your backup. Try to recover your wallet from a backup. If all are fine, you can use that wallet to store your Bitcoin.

Don't store your backup in email, cloud. Write it down, store it offline.

It means you import a private key.

You can use sweep. Like this Can I sweep private keys from other Bitcoin clients? (https://electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/faq.html#can-i-sweep-private-keys-from-other-bitcoin-clients)

Yes, you can claim the forked coins any time you want as long as you have the private key for your address. It doesn't matter if you have spend your Bitcoins or not.
But for security reasons, it's highly advised to move your btc to a new wallet before claiming the forked coins (entering your private key into different wallet apps)

Buy a hardware wallet. If you can't afford to by one, make sure to use only non custodial open source wallets which have a good reputation. Electrum is one of those wallet but it only supports bitcoin.
Instead of exporting your keys and I porting them into a new wallet, I recommend creating a new one and moving your funds to it.

NO! This can't be emphasized enough: People have lost their Bitcoins when their Forkwallet contained malware. Don't even think about Forkcoins before your Bitcoins are safe in a new wallet.

Actually, it's 455 GB by now.

"It depends": If you have 0.01 Bitcoin, I would recommend to download Electrum (watch out for fake sites!) and move it there. If you have a much larger amount, there are different possibilities to keep it safe, but considering your questions, a hardware wallet (Trezor or Ledger) is probably the safest and easiest. It depends on how much you're willing to risk and learn.

Don't forget to backup your wallet.dat before doing anything else.

Since the OP said he has a few bitcoin in his wallet and hasn't touched them since 2015, then I believe he can afford a hardware wallet even more than one. But a non custodial open source wallet is also a good choice for him if the OP doesn't have a lot of bitcoin in that wallet and Electrum is one of my recommendations as well.

I guess the OP just needs to do what the current user is suggesting, each of these suggestions should be very simple and easy to understand. So I hope he will update this thread later when he is done.

I wouldn't worry or think about bitcoin forks at all.
For any fork you need to have bitcoin on your own address on the date when snapshot is done and fork happens.
I doubt any new Bitcoin forks will show up in near future, unless some crazy bad moves happen with moving from proof of work to proof of stake, but chances for that are minimal.
One more option to have hard fork is if Bitcoin adds privacy by default, but this is also unlikely to happen at this moment.

Use only open source wallet that is tested by many users, for example Electrum is a good choice, and it should work fine with all possible forks in future.
You can transfer BTC between two wallets by simple send of transaction, but exporting and importing private key is not really moving of coins.

Thank you very much guys!
You are great!
Now things are much more clear!

1. I understood that forks "belong" to an  address. So safe way to get forks  is: moving BTC to another adress, thus leaving old address with ZERO btc balance on it.
And only after that one should claim forks FROM THE OLD ADDRESS.
Otherwise btc can be stolen.
Have I understood right?

2. Then another question appears.
How a wallet corresponds with an address?
New wallet = new adress?
New wallet + imported private key = new adress?
Or
New wallet + imported private key = old address?
Does an address "belong" to the wallet or does it "belong" to private key?

3. Why is it better just sending btc to new wallet rather than importing private key?
As I didn"t touch my btc for several years, I expect it would take me several months to download all data to the old wallet to make it ready to use.
That's why I prefer importing private key to new wallet rather than sending coins.
What do you think?

Guys, again, thank you so much for your help!

Yes! Don't move forks before your btc because your btc is more valuable and the forked coins will still be there after you've moved the btc.

Private keys are inside wallets. It's a bit like having a wallet with cash in it, the wallet's a nice place to keep things tidy but it's not a necessity for spending - it makes it easier to spend though too, having everything in one place. You're not at risk of dropping a 20 into a grid while you're walking, or you're at less risk at least.

You're wanting to claim your forks so you must move your btc before you do that anyway for security reasons.

Secondly, sweeping keys is the safes way to go about importing them because you're going to end up losing your coins quite so easily. New wallets let you sweep keys into a private key that's represented by a seed or a nmemonic which greatly increases the chance of you having a backup. A seed is a long number, sometimes expressed as a nmemonic, but it's much harder to lose than private keys used to be.

Correct. Unless your wallet turns it into a Segwit address (each private key can generate a few different addresses). If the address starts with a 1, it's your old (Legacy) address.

That depends on your computer: if you have a modern computer and fast internet, it should only take a day (but you may want to upgrade Bitcoin Core, after making a backup of your wallet.dat).
And of course, make sure your computer doesn't have malware. If you're holding a high value, you can add precautions such as keeping your wallet offline and signing transactions there. It's a bit more complicated, so it depends on what you're comfortable iwth.

Many thanks guys!
You are wonderful people!
Now things are even more clear and I have got a plan.
Could you please look at it and approve or disapprove or correct it!

The plan.

Step 1.
Set up a new wallet.
It will be New-wallet-1.
Now I have 2 wallets: the old one and the new one.

Step 2.
Move the btc from the old wallet to the new wallet using importing private key.
Now I have a NEW WALLET  with the OLD ADDRESS.
The old wallet became useless.

Step 3.
Set up an additional New-wallet-2.
Send btc to it as a simple transaction.
Now I have 3 wallets:
1) New-wallet-2 with a NEW ADDRESS and btc on it. This wallet is good to use btc.
2) New-wallet-1 with the old address and zero btc balance on it.
This wallet is good to claim forks.
3) Old wallet which is totally useless.

Step 4.
Delete old wallet.
Use New-wallet-1 to claim forks.
Use New-wallet-2 for btc.

Is it a good plan?

About sending btc from old wallet rather than importing private key.
My computer with btc on it is very old.
It is more than 7 years old :-)
And it has only 500 GB hard disk.
And from my past experience it takes extremely long time to download all that data.
That's why I want to avoid the option with simply sending btc to the new wallet as a transaction.
Sorry guys I still don't understand clearly why importing private key is a bad option.
Can btc be lost while using this option?
Can btc be stolen while using this option?
Is there any good and secure way to move to a new wallet using private key?

Thank you guys!
Wishing you a great and profitable day! :-)

Add Step 1.5: create a backup of the new wallet. Make this a habit.

No, the old wallet still has full access to your coins! Also note that you may have more than one address in there.

Again: create a backup before funding it.

Correct. Don't overpay on transaction fees (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2848987.0).

Old wallet has the same value as New-wallet-1.

This guy knows a thing or 2 about Bitcoin:

Inaccurate. You'll need the private keys from that wallet to claim Forks in different wallets. See my guide (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2836875.msg56494521#msg56494521) and don't do it before you understand what the lack of replay protection means.

It depends :P Could malware steal an amount that makes you cry? If so, you'll need to change your setup. If not, you're good to go.

Mine too :D

Prune the blockchain.

Without enough RAM, and without SSD, it is indeed very slow. A newer Bitcoin Core version may improve this a bit, but it's still very hard on your hardware.

It's a great option, as long as you know what you're doing. It's also good to know clipboard malware (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5190776.0) exists.

If you mess up: yes.

If you mess up and/or have malware: yes.

Yes. Keep it offline. See this post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5318475.msg56389821#msg56389821) and adjust it to your needs (that post starts with a paper wallet instead of Bitcoin Core).

Thank you LoyceV !

"It depends. Could malware steal an amount that makes you cry? If so, you'll need to change your setup. If not, you're good to go."

Have I understood correct that the only bad thing about my plan is risk of malware?
And otherwise it is good?
Can you please tell me, what should be changed in this setup to avoid that risk of malware stealing my coins?

LoyceV,

You wrote "Prune the blockchain."

What do you mean? Is there a possibility not to download the whole blockchain?
Or are you kidding? (LOL).

Btw, I am still learning how to use this forum.
Sorry if I do something wrong.
I shall learn!

And spyware, and entering the wrong address, and sending 99% as fee, and many more things that have happened to people in the past.

I prefer to sign any substantial amount offline, that way no malware can steal anything.

It's an option, either in Settings or on the command line when you start Bitcoin Core. You'll still need to download 450 GB, but it won't fill your disk.

---

---

Please edit your post instead of posting twice in a row, that's not allowed (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0).

LoyceV,

Thank you again!
You are a great teacher for newbies, really!
I am learning from you a lot and updating my knowledge quickly!
Yes!

Question
about importing private key.
You wrote that there were a risk to loose btc using this option because of:
1. Because of malware/spyware. OK, I understand this.
2. Because of myself.  If I mess up something.

Could you please tell,
How can btc be lost if I mess up something when:
- To import private key one must do a basic 10 seconds operation: Copy private key in old wallet and paste it to new wallet.
- As long as old wallet is not deleted, and old private key is not deleted, nothing can be lost  even if I do importing private key completely wrong.

This is how I understand the situation now!
If it is not correct, please tell me what I understood wrong.
So that I know where to be especially careful!

Many, many thanks for your help and your patience with such a "student" like me :-)

There are endless possibilities that can happen: you could paste your private key into an email, post it online, someone could see it on your screen, enter it into a compromised wallet (again: many fake Electrum wallets out there), etc.
Just assume someone's out to get your money, and assume your computer isn't safe. Some paranoia helps :)

Here's another real-life scenario that happened to a clueless and innocent Newbie:

LoyceV,

OK!
Now I understand (in general) the whole thing about my plan!
Now it's time to choose a new wallet......
Thank you very much!

Feel free to post your choice (including the site you download it from) here before installing it. Don't fall for a custodial wallet.

I would choose Electrum.
Download page:
https://electrum.org/#download

Why Electrum - because it looks like it is the best combination of user friendliness and all necessary features  security etc. It looks so from description at bitcoin.org . I am not sure though until I try.
I think  may be I'll use hardware wallet or paper wallet in future. But I'll do this later, after I have learned how it all works.

I suspect I may have  some questions/issues with Electrum concerning installation.

1. If I install 2 new wallets, and both are Electrum (according to my plan I need 2 new  wallets), the computer may put files belonging to both wallets to the same folders, whoch turns both wallets into garbage.
Is it possible for me to choose folders during installation? Or is it Electrum who decides where to place files and does it whithout my control?

2. Is it really necessary to verify Electrum  after downloading as described here https://bitzuma.com/posts/how-to-verify-an-electrum-download-on-windows/ ?
It looks much to complicated for me.
I cannot handle this I am afraid.

3. Should I dowload Standalone Executable or Windows Installer?

4. It says Windows 8.1 and higher.
What if my Windows is older?
I bought that laptop in 2011 or 2012, so that Windows can be older. Cannot check right now, as I am away from home now.
I didn't launch that laptop for several years.
Electrum's website says "Old versions of Windows might need to install the KB2999226 Windows update." Will it help if  Windows is older than 8.1?

Btw, I checked also Sparrow Wallet. But, according to printscreen images, it looks absolutely non-understandable for a newbie :-) With lots of strange words and strange letters and numbers on interface (LOL).

Btw, may be some other wallet rather than Electrum is good for me. It is important not to download the whole blockchain though.
Please suggest!
User friendliness and simplicity are welcome.
After I looked on all those wallets at bitcoin.org I started thinking that probably hardware wallet is best choice. But as it takes time to order and get it, I need to choose some desktop wallet now.

Thank you!

Btw, do you think a hardware wallet is a good thing?
No potential issues?
I read about them today and I start loving them.
Seems to be both secure and convenient.

That's the real site :)

Warning: several sites turned into a scam! They give you a compromised private key, even if you use the site offline. Be very careful.

You can simply use "File > New" to create a new wallet. By default, it saves each wallet in the "wallets" directory. You can change that, but there's no need. It doesn't "turn into garbage".
In fact, I encourage you to try this even before funding them.

It's recommended, although I usually don't bother.

That's up to your personal preference. Both should work the same.

I can't answer this, I don't use Windows. But, especially if you're holding large funds: does your Windows version still get security updates?

Electrum is the most recommended for a reason ;)

I can think of many potential issues, but in general, and for most users, it's safer than software wallets.

Note: don't ever enter your 12/24 seed words on any website, even if the website says it's necessary to get your money out of your (hardware) wallet. Phishing is real!

Hi,

Thank you LoyceV !
Here is the updated plan:


1. Back up Core.
2. Set Up Electrum.
3. Back up Electrum.
4. Import private key to Electrum.
5. Back Up Electrum.
6. Set Up any simple and convenient moblie wallet like Bitcoin Wallet. Use it to spend btc the following way:  receive small amounts from Electrum and immediately send them further.
Thus, Electrum is online always just for a short time. And I don't hold any btc on mobile wallet even for short time.
7. Buy a hardware wallet.
Set it up.
Transfer  btc from Electrum into that hardware wallet.
Hold btc on hardware wallet.
8.  Electrum has zero btc balance after btc have arrived to hardware wallet,  and thus Electrum became  good to claim forks.


Is it a good plan?

You should have done this already (the file wallet.dat is the only one you need to backup)

Electrum has different wallet types: the "Standard wallet" will get you 12 seed words to write down (that's your backup), but can't import. The "Import Bitcoin addresses or private keys" wallet allows you to import, after which you can make a backup. Or just keep your original wallet.dat as backup for those private keys.
Or, don't use "import private keys", and only create a "Standard wallet". Then, use: Wallet > Private keys > Sweep. This moves the funds from your old address directly to your new Electrum wallet.

Bitcoin Wallet is OLD! I've used it, but it takes forever to update an old wallet. Did you know there's also Electrum for mobile?

If you immediately send them again, what's the point of using the mobile wallet? You can just as well send it from Electrum directly.
My system is to keep a small Bitcoin balance on my mobile wallet all the time, which is what I use that for daily expenses.

Malware only needs a short time. Once your wallet has touched an online computer, it doesn't help anymore if you take it offline. If it's compromised, your funds will be taken.

Go!

Electrum itself can't claim forks, but other than that, once your Bitcoins are safe, you can claim them. Note that the values in my guide are outdated. You're looking at about $200 worth of Forkcoins (in total) for each Bitcoin you owned when they forked. That's only 1% of the value of your Bitcoin, so don't rush it.

For what it's worth: You've waited since 2015. Don't rush things now ;)

Thank you LoyceV!
:-)