Bitcoin Forum

As per my knowledge, BTC price can manipulate to some extent by whales. But whales need to respect market movment and only can do corrctions to some extent.
what is your thoughts?

It probably depends. If you're going to believe that whales manipulate the market as much as had been suggested in the past (and still do it) then for larger coins like bitcoin they'd probably wait for times to do it when the market has low volatility, low volume and little order book depth so they know they'll push the price far enough in a direction to get a reaction.

For smaller coins, all they really need is an order book without much depth and to work out how cheap it is to pump a coin if no one cares to buy it once it's been pumped.

There's not a bad chance people who are bad at trading or annoyed they made a loss where they think they shouldn't have blamed whales and also a time where whales have been blamed for price manipulation and it was still speculated about long after as to whether it was whales or not. (the best way to tell would be to look at tiny timeframes of a second or 10 to see if all the move came quickly or didn't and only if it comes quickly would it confirm it's necessarily a whale).

Do not have the believe that whales are manipulating the market,  holders and traders can make profit if they follow the right direction.

It is bitcoin, not altcoin with low marketcap. Manipulation would be hard if compared.

How are traders manipulating the market when they are only looking for ways to make profit from trading? Simple signal like? Traders are not manipulating anything in my opinion.

Of course they do and that's the way it works. Oil, stocks metal bitcoin or anything can and is manipulated.

JP Morgan get busted doing it and the fine is less than the take.

it's hard to say that the price of BTC can be manipulated, if there really is a big whale of course he needs to hold at least 20% of the amount of BTC available, I think it could be the market being manipulated, but the fact is with the current price value it takes a lot of money to make price manipulation, we are facing a recovery from a bear market at the moment and you need to read a lot of news in your home to know more about current economic problems in the world, it is better to take advantage of this bear market to invest rather than say the market is being manipulated

Whales are not the ones controlling the bitcoin market price by any means, infact they also work by the volatility dip to set in for a buy, fonsider the bitcoin network as a large open market where everyone participate in daily to buy and sell and including individuals, whales, and institutions, you could get more of this fact in considering the market volume of bitcoin, majorly the price is determined by the proportion of demand from supply and is as simple as the application of the general economics demand and supply in determining coddity price.

In the past market manipulation used to take place in a much simple way. The crypto whales used to move large volume of fund's. This is common, and other forms include fake volume on the Exchanges which shows the project high on the market. The major manipulation trap is through creating fear among the common users.

When something negative about cryptocurrency is spread around, common investors tend to sell fearing it'll not grow again. Nowadays this kind of manipulation isn't giving hands as everyone are aware of the market and know well about it.

Right now it's mostly manipulated by stock traders. You can see that by watching nasdaq index and comparing it to bitcoin.
When there's a run up on stock indexes some people buy a few thousand bitcoins on exchanges and when indexes fall down the same people sell and bitcoin moves up 5% and down 5% sometimes it's 3% up and down or 2% but it looks like the same money is moving in and out.

If you are discussing about any market, there are whales.

Whales can be personal to institutional or governmental. You can not exclude governments from manipulations. So far we don't know who is or are Satoshi Nakamoto and even it is not a government, government still engage in the market with suspicious activities.

It is no chance for coincidence when market needs big news to move, governmental news ready to be released very on time. Governments are ready to make it happen on time. If you participated in market long enough that should be more than four years, I think you should be doubtful about governments.

There's always fees to transactions, trades, exchanges with crypto. There will be manipulations and swings with any market, but it is not profitable in most circumstances.

One man can send markets either way with a Tweet............ So Musk or Saylor don't have influence?

Powell is whale.

Bitcoin is still small potato's to the markets.

There is no respect that is going to be expected from the whales. The whales hodlers are their to make additional profit from the time they have bought the coins. We need to know that the whales are there to make additional profit and so we can expect manipulation for that to happen. The market is not regulated and it is a free market happening in cryptocurrency

The presence of whales is the volatility in decentralized assets like Bitcoin, and if you talking about Bitcoin price volatility, whales have a high influence on the price of Bitcoin but we must also know that some other factors that influence Bitcoin price news also have a high influence on the price.

But to say the market is constantly manipulated by whales alone is like limiting other factors that affect the price of Bitcoin as I mentioned above.

there are many things going on in the markets

a true market of true user buys/sells.. would have different sentiments per platform.

EG the group of buyers on a british market would want to buy at different times to that at a american market. so you would see peak volumes and offers at different times

also english mining costs are different to that of american miners. so the sentiment of 'values' would be different. meaning the willingness for miners to sell for profit would differ to american miners selling for profit. and same for buyers,

yet many markets price graph line up too coincidentally. they match each other too consistently

this is where arbitraging comes in. these are not normal willing buyers and sellers. but traders in the middle playing each market against each other, using sidechans and stablecoins to move funds from one exchange to another instantly to take advantage of any price discrepancy to profit from the different spreads in each market
...
ontop of this there are the 'futures'/options markets
when they do 'shorts' they sell the market causing a price drop to then buy cheaper. when enough do this they can make the price decrease. there are groups that act together doing this in a form of opposite to a pump and dump

then there are the influencers. groups of people trying to push regular users to sell or buy at certain times that suits the influencers, not the users

lastly, there are the exchanges that could but shouldnt insider trade.
this can be done by simply seeing how many deposits totals they have per hour/day to calculate the possible market orders that may hit that day. some exchanges use silly KYC/AML requirements to delay peoples orders hitting the market by setting a delayed exchange time that suits the exchange, rather than let users insta-swap.
they can also shadow trade. by putting small orders in before regular users orders so that the exchange itself always gets the best deals

the last are not "whale", but instead "wall" traders. yes they have whale volume. but their game is to create walls of resistance a few orders below the spread to force the sentiment that the price wont go below or above certain levels pushing users to play within the walls


ways to solve this could be that traders internal and external have to pay a fee to make an order. rather than charged a fee for having an order filled. i dont mean  an extra fee, just a change of when the fee is charged
that way it would stop all the fake orders, wall orders and shadow orders that try to sway the markets

because most market control is done not by regular traders that just buy due to their personal sentiment. but due to the wall orders and arbitrage shadow trading that sets and cancels orders to sway the regular normal users

Is BTC price manipulation possible? Maybe, but it would likely take a very large sum of capital, or multiple people working in conjunction to do it. For all of the worry and concern, it is unlikely that any one person or organization really has any significant power to impact Bitcoin's overall value significantly. While BTC price may still be possible to manipulate, movements are far less pronounced than they were a few years ago. In the end, I think it is important to remember that someone will always be working to manipulate the market. But when it comes to Bitcoin, this is not an issue worth losing sleep over.

It was already been a practice a long time ago. Honesty, it was easy to manipulate the market if you have a lot of money and the capability to do it. But despite this situation, I have to complain about it because of the reason that these whales are also helping the market to keep alive and also for us to make a profit. Just I imagine that without their participation I can't expect such volatility and great development.

As we are in this market where money is involved, certainly expect manipulations exist.

There is no so called respect when a particular whale is going to sell or buy again and vice versa or simply manipulating the market. Mostly whales that only sells or buys hundred of bitcoin doesn't do much actually in bitcoin market.

Unlike if its an institutional investors who sold their particular holdings then do the PR what they did, although this isn't market manipulation but price will be much affected.

There's no need for them to respect the market, if they can move it with what they have, they're going to move it all together so that it will be moving in their favor.
But just like us, they have to deal with the market's behavior and it will cost them money to having it move even a bit. Well, I believed that before that the whales were working all together to make the price move on the likes of them. But these days, it's all about the news that they'll be doing to the market to affect even the tiniest investor to make a move like panic selling.

It's a simple explanation, there are too many things that happen in the market, not just manipulation, fundamentals have sometimes a reason.
It's normal that every market has a whale even though stocks, but I don't know if there's a manipulation in the crypto market, it seems you need a large fund for this, in order that you can manipulate the market price.

Whales are whales, they didn't need to respect the market.
Once the opportunity of making a profit is there, they will grab it, and they will laugh when they saw a weak hand selling their Bitcoin during the correction time.

The possibility of manipulation of bitcoin by whales is very small. If they can manage this, then they will most likely be able to play the price of bitcoin, but in reality this cannot be done in the course of bitcoin, although it is possible to do and bitcoin is very different from altcoins. The amount of Bitcoin in circulation should be held 40-50% by the pope, and this is impossible. So no need to think about this, do the right trades, so that we can get maximum profit, don't worry about this problem.

What are you saying? based on the data, around 2-3% Bitcoin address are own 90% of total Bitcoin [1] although one address doesn't mean it's controlled by one person and those address might be come from centralized exchange hot wallet, but there's a high chance whales are own 40-50% of total Bitcoin.

But why does we need to worry if the whales are bought most of Bitcoin? It do increase Bitcoin price and make it more scarce, the whales will get benefit if they can pump Bitcoin price and at the same time many retail will get benefit too due to bullish market.

---

[1] https://bitinfocharts.com/top-100-richest-bitcoin-addresses.html

and when the whale starts to sell we also need to be vigilant because usually, the price will experience a significant correction. The whales know what to do, they always take profit whenever the market is bearish or bullish. If bitcoin is getting rarer and continues to be bought by some whales then the manipulation will continue. Currently, bitcoin is still not finished to be mined and still long enough to be mined of them. We as small traders must also be smart and be able to guess the steps of the pope, never fight the whale, it's better to go on his shoulders and think like them.

Interesting topic, although it seems to me that over the years it is increasingly difficult to manipulate the price of Bitcoin due to the acceptance it is having.

Bitcoin price manipulation is possible, so I wouldn't say no because it can happen regardless of whether they are doing it individually or to a specific group.

I think we all know that the bitcoin market is still relatively smaller although over time it will get bigger. So it is safe to assume that the market can be manipulated as long as a person or group of people has large funds. However, you can believe it or not, but the most important thing is that you must always be wise in dealing with price fluctuations in the market.

Manipulation of Bitcoin isn't an easy task due to decentralization. But it's not impossible. A group of whales can manipulate the price and make our pocket empty lol. They can change market movements even though they won't last long. But definitely, they fill their pocket by taking advantage of people's emotions. It's not new, to be honest, whales have been doing it for a long time. I believe whales have an internal community that they decide to manipulate which is well organized.

Strongly disagree, you are right and wrong as well the fundamentals can not be manipulated as the stack / Transection information and all that stuff but the point of Price manipulation is the wrong price can be manipulated. You remember the LUNA crisis that was manipulation you remember the China Fud that was a munuplation you know the Tesla News that was the manipulation of market price be manipulated bro that's very much obvious.

I also believe that the bitcoin price can still be manipulated by some big whales and even an exchange like Binance has the ability to manipulate the price for a certain period of time. I believe short-term fluctuations in the bitcoin price are killing longs and shorts, being manipulated by exchanges.

The bitcoin market is growing day by day and so far the market capitalization has reached 1 trillion, but this is a very small number compared to other markets such as gold market with a capitalization of 12 trillion … so manipulation is possible.

My view for BTC whales They are movers. Just like any other way of investing the whales will take advantage of it when there is a good opportunity for them to make money.

I don't think that manipulation is the right word. The bitcoin price is currently being manipulated by mining pools and mining companies. In order to manipulate a currency, they have to put in enough money to manipulate it, and have the idea that they can do whatever they want with it.

I don't see this happening, although I can see that professional traders are coming in and making some moves. I've also seen movement by major mining companies at times, but this is more of a move by miners.

And miners are not trying to control prices, instead they are trying to get more profit on their hardware, a reward for doing their job of securing the network and providing protection for the network against attacks.

I'm not sure if the whales are still manipulating the BTC price because they need to use more BTC to move the price to a certain level with the current BTC price. But if they just want to shake the price up for a while, they can do it, especially if they have a lot of BTC. And we really don't need to panic if the whales are trying to manipulate the price by moving it to a certain price because we can follow what they are doing so we can have a chance to make a profit.

It's true that whales can manipulate the BTC market, but my concern is that what many are considering a market manipulation is not really what it is. I have read from some authors on BTT that claimed whales manipulations when it actually wasn't a manipulation but normal trading with big volumes. See, we have to differentiate things here, whales could only manipulate when they have collective trading in the same direction with big volume in a regular and timely fashion.

This doesn't offend happen, if it does, it would have been plainly recognized in the market. But the good news is that BTC trading has now been inculcated into the mainstream market, so the so-called whales do not have much say in the market manipulations again.

Not sure if whales also like the spot market to hold large sums of funds. The assumption is that if that's true, it's certain that the manipulation here is only local, I mean only a few exchanges have volume that they are able to "control".


It's not manipulation, it's traders reaction (sometimes exaggerated) to the influence of the fundamentals.  If you also remember, some of Elon Musk's policies regarding bitcoin with his company after a few times slowly had no effect on the price.

maybe whales can manipulate bitcoin prices, but it's not as easy as we think,
because the pope also has limited finances,
that's why the pope also likes to manipulate the news,
so that everything goes with the flow.

the conclusion is that if the pope wants to manipulate the price of bitcoin, he doesn't do it himself, but is helped by people who are carried away by the news.

What I'm thinking about is not how the whales manipulate market prices, but I'm trying to figure out how I'm not being manipulated by the whispers that come to mind telling me to let go of Bitcoin.
We often hear about news that says whales can manipulate market prices, but when it comes to Bitcoin as the king of coins I don't think it matters. It is precisely my concern about the wave of economic crisis that will be faced by countries in the world.

It is undeniable that whales do exist and they have their own strategies for personal gain. They will be happy when a lot of people panic selling and they will take advantage of the opportunity to enter. And when the price starts to rise automatically many people are interested in joining and that's where the whales will slam the price because they have already made a profit. Actually we ourselves are wrong for following the algorithm they invented and in almost every market they do the same. We have also realized, but why the same thing continues to be done.

I just consider it as a strategy. You can profit from this market in any way. No one has anything to say about it. It totally depends on you. Whales also want to constantly change their strategies so that they are able to make more profits. I think everyone has freedom in the cryptomarket. But when the market runs at its own pace, those who can keep sufficient holdings will be considered successful.

Isn't that just a possibility, but has no certainty of ownership, moreover we don't know exactly the exchange is controlled by one, two or three people in a centralized hot wallet, the same is the case with Satoshi's bitcoin holdings, who can be sure of the amount?

In this case I agree, the bitcoin price pumping process is usually preceded by a purchase by the Pope, so retail purchases will greatly benefit, after the pumping occurs and experiences an increase in the price of bitcoin, but the number of bitcoin holdings is difficult to translate.

Whales absolutely do not care about respect for the market. They can manipulate the price, it's true, but they do it only for their own benefit. And I can understand them.

I think this situation is like a sharp double-edged knife, it can make you profit but it can also make you lose. With a very high level of risk it can be said that more than 70% is very contradictory. Therefore, if you want to trade, you should use 10% to 20% of the allocation of funds, so that everything goes safely and avoids a lot of losses.

This is a very good point for a trader, you ought to be vigilants for any price manipulation maybe if you would keep to survive in dip you can be active, but this doesn't mean the whale can't do whatever they feels like doing with their bitcoin is only those who are afraid of market dip would likely sell of their btc to the whales with just little treat to the market while traders see such moments as an opportunities for their entry points.