Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Davidvictorson on November 06, 2022, 07:36:30 AM



Title: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Davidvictorson on November 06, 2022, 07:36:30 AM
CBDCs are no more than fiat currency scams on steroids. As long as the current fiat system is not viable, then CBDCs are even less viable as they enable the government to engage in even more currency debasement. CBDCs cannot save weak currencies like the Ghanian Cedis, the Zimbabwean Dollar, the Venezuelan bolivar, the Argentine peso, or the Lebanese lira. The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. Infact, there are a lot of bad things that come with CBDCs and countries should avoid it. What do you think. Do you have a dissenting opinion?

https://financialunderground.com/articles/another-big-cbdc-flop/


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Argoo on November 06, 2022, 09:28:09 AM
CBDC is not a fiat currency scam. CBDCs should significantly improve the efficiency of government cashless payments. It also cannot be said that the system of national currencies of each state is not viable. With the effective work of the government, its functioning of the currency of this state will also be effective. This system has been developed over centuries and millennia of human history. It should simply be remembered that nothing is perfect in our gross physical world. Cryptocurrency is also not perfect. We need to be able to use a specific payment system for each specific case.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: woez on November 06, 2022, 09:58:58 AM
I think there's a lot that can be said against central bank digital currencies. Central banks have no accountability and have repeatedly caused harm, often deliberately. I don't want to see them gain more power by introducing CBDCs. And it's hard to see how central bank digital currencies increase privacy. To me, the biggest threat from CBDCs is the loss of seigniorage, which would enable the introduction of a permanent expansionary monetary policy.

So if CBDCs cannot save weak currencies, what can? It depends on the situation, but there are a variety of viable options. For tether-like issuance, community banks could issue their own currencies in line with their local credit capacity. There is precedent for this some community banks have issued their own private currency notes.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: mk4 on November 06, 2022, 10:40:34 AM
I don't think CBDCs were made to "save" dying currencies in the first place? I don't think the economics of the currencies even changes. CBDCs are just fiat with more control for the authorities.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Majestic-milf on November 06, 2022, 10:57:31 AM
First off, these CBDCs were created as a means for the govt to distract individuals from embracing the coin and like the op observed, CBDCs are no different from BTC since they are both digitally crested but while CBDCs retract privacy from you, BTC retains it and since the government naturally cannot endorse what they can't control, set up diversionary methods.

 I think it's high time these financial institutions and govts tell themselves some home truth; CBDCs were never meant to help the Fiat. Take Nigeria and the e-naira for instance, rather they were created to further strengthen their hold. But alas, it's also failing.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Lucius on November 06, 2022, 11:26:29 AM
After so many threads about CBDC (central bank digital currency) why would anyone think that central banks are doing this to save national currencies? They are doing this to meet the challenges of the new digital age, and those who want to admit it publicly say that they are actually afraid of the increasing influence of cryptocurrencies, especially stablecoins.

As we have already concluded countless times, not only will such currencies enable the authorities to have complete insight into all transactions, but they will most likely be used to show that they are safer, better and more stable than Bitcoin or some altcoins/stablecoins. It is known that the EU has plans for a digital euro, but also that the current views are that the maximum amount per individual will be EUR 300, which means that we are still far from CBDC completely replacing existing payment methods.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: tvplus006 on November 06, 2022, 11:26:42 AM
...The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. ..

If the financial system of the state is unstable, then CBDC will not be able to stabilize it. It should be remembered that CBDC is one of the types of money, along with cash and non-cash forms of money. Accordingly, if these types of money do not enjoy the trust of users, then this distrust will be automatically transferred to the CBDC.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: DVlog on November 06, 2022, 11:32:08 AM
I don't think CBDCs were made to "save" dying currencies in the first place? I don't think the economics of the currencies even changes. CBDCs are just fiat with more control for the authorities.

It makes the already centralized system more centralized. Now govt can make you broken in a second by freezing all of your assets. This system will not be sustainable and people will be more focused on cryptocurrencies instead of CBDC. In Jordan people are already using USDT for local trade as their economy is broken a few months ago and their fiat currencies become worthless. It's clearly visible why crypto will be on the mainstream.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: vv181 on November 06, 2022, 12:43:33 PM
The referred article is significantly biased. The world's attempt to implement CBDC would act differently with each own culture and people's knowledge compared to Nigeria. We can not say the current condition in Nigeria is tantamount to what will happen in some countries when they implement their own version.

In the first place, CBDC ideation does not merely thrive to improve the "stability" of FIAT currencies, so if we are goes by saying it mainly will improve weak currencies, it is truly a misunderstanding and nonsensical. Since unstable money should be improved by any other means, rather than moving the money into digital form.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Maidak on November 06, 2022, 12:56:14 PM
CBDC is a digital version of fiat, in theory they are exactly the same, how can it be said that CBDC will save fiat or will save a dying economy. We live in the digital age and the advent of cryptocurrencies has prompted the government to issue CBDCs as a more convenient means of payment for the people and through which they can better control us compared to paper money.

The value of a country's currency in close relation to that country's economy, once a currency weakens because that's because the economy of that country is weakening, the only way to save that currency is to boost the economy.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Gozie51 on November 06, 2022, 01:19:22 PM
CBDC is not a Messiah to any government policy, an economy that is already sick is left on its own, nothing magical about the introduction of it. It is only for the convenience of dealing of business transactions off and online since bitcoin is looked as if it is taking the global finance stage and some countries that have fear try to discourage the devaluation of their currency and introducing but they simply not understand blockchain industry.




Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: kryptqnick on November 06, 2022, 02:11:51 PM
Perhaps others are right that saving fiat currencies is not the point of CBDCs, but I agree with the op that in case it is, it's not helpful. CBDCs can indeed do very little to stabilize a fiat currency, but perhaps they can help to save up on fees that banks impose on people and businesses, so there is some use to them. I'd also add that all fiat currencies are weak, pretty much. Major fiat currencies devaluated much more than they were supposed to, showing that faith in a strong Dollar or Euro is ill-founded. Russian ruble managed to become a very stable fiat currency, but at a price of Draconian controlling measures, and since the idea of linking the currency to gold was abandoned for good reason in the previous century, I wouldn't expect the current stability to be a long-term solution.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: so98nn on November 06, 2022, 03:14:14 PM
Why would it be scam? I see no problem in having government regulated digital currencies as they are not going interfere with our daily lives at all. In fact those are way outs for the easier use of fiat on daily basis. For example, we can already see use case of digital payment solution in India through Unified Payment Interface. Even small Candy worth ₹1 ~ $0.015 !!! That’s the beauty of going digital. With this they are able to grow economy to the highest peak.

Let’s not mix up the things with crypto world I guess. CBDC is doing Whatever they needs to do for national development and I think that’s fiat system and we should have the border between two worlds always.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: cozytrade on November 06, 2022, 03:21:47 PM
Perhaps others are right that saving fiat currencies is not the point of CBDCs, but I agree with the op that in case it is, it's not helpful. CBDCs can indeed do very little to stabilize a fiat currency, but perhaps they can help to save up on fees that banks impose on people and businesses, so there is some use to them. I'd also add that all fiat currencies are weak, pretty much. Major fiat currencies devaluated much more than they were supposed to, showing that faith in a strong Dollar or Euro is ill-founded. Russian ruble managed to become a very stable fiat currency, but at a price of Draconian controlling measures, and since the idea of linking the currency to gold was abandoned for good reason in the previous century, I wouldn't expect the current stability to be a long-term solution.

Yes, now you do not need to give fees to the bank but direct to the government. It is worse than that. It gives the government more power over its people.

CBDC is just a digital version of fiat currencies. There is no exception so there is no way it can assist in any way to a weak economy. It will create mostly an inconvenience to the majority of the population. Just think how some urban tribes in Afghanistan or Somalia will use CBDC without internet or a compatible device.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Smack That Ace on November 06, 2022, 03:42:27 PM
Last year, The government of Dubai has announced that they will remove all paperwork from administrative transactions and they will go 100% digital. This saves them a lot of money as well as a lot of time. Shows that the development of the world is moving towards a more civilized, more convenient. Using CBDC is simply a step forward in bringing technology into our lives, not a scam or a government trying to make excuses.
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/dubai-worlds-first-government-to-become-100-per-cent-paperless-crown-prince-sheikh-hamdan-bin-mohammed-bin-rashid-al-maktoum-2648107


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: bittraffic on November 06, 2022, 03:49:20 PM
CBDCs are no more than fiat currency scams on steroids. As long as the current fiat system is not viable, then CBDCs are even less viable as they enable the government to engage in even more currency debasement. CBDCs cannot save weak currencies like the Ghanian Cedis, the Zimbabwean Dollar, the Venezuelan bolivar, the Argentine peso, or the Lebanese lira. The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. Infact, there are a lot of bad things that come with CBDCs and countries should avoid it. What do you think. Do you have a dissenting opinion?

https://financialunderground.com/articles/another-big-cbdc-flop/

If you post this on social media, you might just be fact-checked. The fiat Ponzi wants to stay afloat so they meant to use the centralized system that can stop the people from having thier freedom. Nigerians have BTC as an option but China didn't have an option. It seems CBDC is not flopping on them.

of course, all the things said about CBDC can be a borderline for conspiracy theory, especially the surveillance and freezing of money if you are caught on social media opposing the government. We'll truth comes out already with Paypal's term.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: naira on November 06, 2022, 04:33:25 PM
CBDC is not a fiat currency scam. CBDCs should significantly improve the efficiency of government cashless payments. It also cannot be said that the system of national currencies of each state is not viable. With the effective work of the government, its functioning of the currency of this state will also be effective. This system has been developed over centuries and millennia of human history. It should simply be remembered that nothing is perfect in our gross physical world. Cryptocurrency is also not perfect. We need to be able to use a specific payment system for each specific case.
If it's not fiat currency scams then how can Fiat keep inflation in check if its value continues to shrink due to the absence of truly certain reserves? who makes fiat effective? Both CBDC and Fiat are actually governments just wanting to control your assets and don't want to see the decentralization of cryptocurrency ownership go unchecked. Are you just going to become a fiat slave to feel that you have lasting value? if fiat survives, the government will not issue a CBDC just to keep up with technological developments.
As @Lucius said, "just to meet the challenges of the new digital age". that's the conclusion!!


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: hugeblack on November 06, 2022, 04:37:27 PM
The only advantage of CBDC is that it reduces the fees for printing money and thus saves a lot of money. Also, if it is managed efficiently, it will increase transparency and reduce corruption, but we all know that this will not happen.
Therefore, if the system is corrupt, these currencies will give the countries great control over the people's money and force them to take whatever taxes they want.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: BlackHatCoiner on November 06, 2022, 04:48:20 PM
Why should CDBCs save already existent national currencies? I'm pretty confident that the opposite will happen sooner or later; a currency reset, which will introduce us to CBDCs.

The only advantage of CBDC is that it reduces the fees for printing money and thus saves a lot of money.
One more advantage, over to physical cash, is comfort. It's easier to pay for a dinner electronically if you're going to pay individually. Physical cash often introduces problems when it comes to change.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Smartprofit on November 06, 2022, 05:05:40 PM
CBDCs are no more than fiat currency scams on steroids. As long as the current fiat system is not viable, then CBDCs are even less viable as they enable the government to engage in even more currency debasement. CBDCs cannot save weak currencies like the Ghanian Cedis, the Zimbabwean Dollar, the Venezuelan bolivar, the Argentine peso, or the Lebanese lira. The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. Infact, there are a lot of bad things that come with CBDCs and countries should avoid it. What do you think. Do you have a dissenting opinion?

https://financialunderground.com/articles/another-big-cbdc-flop/

On the one hand, CBDC is a basic element of a digital concentration camp, and on the other hand, it is a very effective tool for managing the economy. 

CBDC (in theory) allows you to fully control all income and expenses, as well as plan production and consumption.  Along with the digital marking of goods, this will ensure total control and planning of all financial and economic operations in the country. 

This will allow to produce products with minimal costs, and therefore increase the competitiveness of the country that has implemented the CBDC system.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Oluwa-btc on November 06, 2022, 05:49:12 PM
What ever that's controllable and programmed by the government and banks are nothing but complete shitty, how many threads need be created before this finally gets to full conclusion ? They're same scheme and ideas of the fiat system, nothing much added to it really.
Fvck the Fed's and use Bitcoin. In Nigeria, redesigning the paper fiat would make it a bit scares, I don't know if would see a high use of Bitcoin or E-Naira.

The means could also be a means to monitor the fund's used by the political parties during the next election if I'm guessing right.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: lumbanrang on November 07, 2022, 09:01:00 AM
A CBDC will not and cannot save weak currencies, it will only change how fiat transactions will be conducted and regulated, and that's about it. That's why I don't really care about things like CBDC, because this is not a new innovation.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: tiCeR on November 07, 2022, 12:35:22 PM
The only advantage of CBDC is that it reduces the fees for printing money and thus saves a lot of money. Also, if it is managed efficiently, it will increase transparency and reduce corruption, but we all know that this will not happen.
Therefore, if the system is corrupt, these currencies will give the countries great control over the people's money and force them to take whatever taxes they want.

There are a ton of other potential issues that come to my mind: negative interest rates, which typically get sold as a positive thing stimulating the economy, could not be circumvented anymore by people who choose cash over other investments. With the application of negative interest rates people would feel forced to switch into other assets or accelerate consumption. That could be played out in a very tricky way. I would bet that banks are sitting on exactly those assets that are then the escape for people trying to avoid negative interest rates, thereby driving up those other assets' prices. I'd say it's similar to quantitative easing, but this time it is not the banks pumping money into the markets, but the people who are kind of left without a choice.
There is lots of stuff you can do with CBDCs. Among the range of possibilities is certainly also the ability to create a perfect, fully transparent profile about people, which is not unlikely to end up in exacerbating social control.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: DrBeer on November 07, 2022, 10:55:42 PM
CBDC is just a new historical turn, the transition of money to another qualitative level. If you remember, at the beginning of civilization, existing money was provided with precious metal in it, then banknotes appeared, then a mix of fiat money and non-cash payments (now we are here). The next step is CBDC. This was driven by cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. The essence of CBDC is total control over the movement of money and total state control over the money itself. Yes, and also the security of the financial system of the state! Because for example, CBDC solves the problem of counterfeiting, "financial attacks on the state", etc. actions.
Nothing else!


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: AmoreJaz on November 07, 2022, 11:50:17 PM
CBDC is just a new historical turn, the transition of money to another qualitative level. If you remember, at the beginning of civilization, existing money was provided with precious metal in it, then banknotes appeared, then a mix of fiat money and non-cash payments (now we are here). The next step is CBDC. This was driven by cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. The essence of CBDC is total control over the movement of money and total state control over the money itself. Yes, and also the security of the financial system of the state! Because for example, CBDC solves the problem of counterfeiting, "financial attacks on the state", etc. actions.
Nothing else!

we are still in the early adoption of CBDCs. so right now the governments don't know yet the full potential or impact of its usage. but definitely, the tracking of CBDC is much easier than the usual physical fiat money. transparency is one of the things that this digital fiat can offer. but let's see how people will use this to their own advantage.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Apocollapse on November 08, 2022, 02:57:33 AM
You call fiat is scam? why you're still use fiat to spend food and pay bills right now? :D if it's scam don't use it, except you're a dumb person.

Actually fiat isn't scam, but you shouldn't hold most of your funds in fiat since the value will become worthless in the future. This is why money management and financial is really important to understand why investment is really important.

CBDC is digital fiat that the value is stick with fiat 1:1, there's no way to save inflated currencies through digital since the problem is the currency.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: lixer on November 09, 2022, 08:49:50 AM
CBDC is just a new historical turn, the transition of money to another qualitative level. If you remember, at the beginning of civilization, existing money was provided with precious metal in it, then banknotes appeared, then a mix of fiat money and non-cash payments (now we are here). The next step is CBDC. This was driven by cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. The essence of CBDC is total control over the movement of money and total state control over the money itself. Yes, and also the security of the financial system of the state! Because for example, CBDC solves the problem of counterfeiting, "financial attacks on the state", etc. actions.
Nothing else!
we are still in the early adoption of CBDCs. so right now the governments don't know yet the full potential or impact of its usage. but definitely, the tracking of CBDC is much easier than the usual physical fiat money. transparency is one of the things that this digital fiat can offer. but let's see how people will use this to their own advantage.
Yes. CBDC's are still new and a lot of countries didn't issue their own CBDC's yet. I agree on what @DrBeer said. CBDC's are just a fiat in another form. They are not a crypto or a new technology so government shouldn't expect a lot from them. If what they see in local fiat then the same thing they can also expect in CBDC's but the impact of it is going to be positive for those who are supporting fiats because this enabled them to have another option other than cards and other online currencies.

It makes their lives more easier. I don't think governments created CBDC's to save their fiat currencies but even if that is their motive then it won't work.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: coupable on November 10, 2022, 11:13:22 PM
The events of a digital currency with the same counterpart cannot represent a solution to any of the problems faced by the original currency. It is assumed that the digitization of the currency was for the purpose of facilitating its use, but it should not turn into a tool to pump more digital liquidity without having an exchange from the main currency.
Currently there is widespread use of USDT in countries whose currency is suffering from inflation. However, this does not assume that all tokens will be issued with a fixed dollar reserve.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: ChiNgadOr on November 11, 2022, 09:59:49 PM
Since the normal fiat do not have good value then there is no way CBDC can make much impressive effort and value because this is in the online version of a currency which is replicated digitally.
 I have seen make countries' CBDC that are not making any move and it was not becoming that useful to people. Good countries with strong currencies will make good use of CBDC that will serve as an alternative move for people.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Gyfts on November 11, 2022, 10:14:41 PM
You call fiat is scam? why you're still use fiat to spend food and pay bills right now? :D if it's scam don't use it, except you're a dumb person.

Actually fiat isn't scam, but you shouldn't hold most of your funds in fiat since the value will become worthless in the future. This is why money management and financial is really important to understand why investment is really important.

CBDC is digital fiat that the value is stick with fiat 1:1, there's no way to save inflated currencies through digital since the problem is the currency.

It isn't a scam, per se. It's a perpetuation of a broken system that forces citizens to rely on the government for purchasing power. There wasn't really a better system pre-crypto, I'm not arguing that. I'm suggesting that a currency that is controlled by an entity which promises its participants that purchasing power will go down every year by inherent function of the system is all but a fraud.

If the average working man, lower income, has no alternative to its government's currency and the predations that come along with fiat, would you fault him for it? They don't have a choice. This is not even beginning to discuss countries that have limited the crypto industry by excessive taxes and regulation.

I suspect CBDC's will plague the financial industry like a malignant tumor, and there isn't a guarantee that it would be a 1:1 value pegged to whatever fiat currency the issuer chooses. It's arbitrary.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Majestic-milf on December 04, 2022, 03:52:00 PM
People usually look to alternative means whenever the available is failing that's why it's called a plan b. Asides from the government trying to at least have a control over its citizens, CBDCs were created to support a failing fiat.
 Like the op mentioned, CBDCs were believed to be the key to solving a country's fiat problems, but as it is CBDCs are somehow aiding in financial crime, fraud and illegal activity.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Tony116 on December 04, 2022, 04:23:11 PM
People usually look to alternative means whenever the available is failing that's why it's called a plan b. Asides from the government trying to at least have a control over its citizens, CBDCs were created to support a failing fiat.
 Like the op mentioned, CBDCs were believed to be the key to solving a country's fiat problems, but as it is CBDCs are somehow aiding in financial crime, fraud and illegal activity.

CBDC is just a digital version of fiat. As I understand it, to keep up with the digital age, governments create CBDCs to provide a fiat alternative that offers convenience in use, they don't claim it's the solution to save fiat. CBDCs are fiat, nothing more and nothing less, so the failure of a certain country's CBDC is because their currency has also failed before.

I have not found any evidence that CBDCs are supporting financial crimes, scams and illegal activities. Your claims are baseless, no different than governments are blaming bitcoin.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Die_empty on December 04, 2022, 04:41:47 PM
CBDCs are no more than fiat currency scams on steroids. As long as the current fiat system is not viable, then CBDCs are even less viable as they enable the government to engage in even more currency debasement. CBDCs cannot save weak currencies like the Ghanian Cedis, the Zimbabwean Dollar, the Venezuelan bolivar, the Argentine peso, or the Lebanese lira. The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. Infact, there are a lot of bad things that come with CBDCs and countries should avoid it. What do you think. Do you have a dissenting opinion?

https://financialunderground.com/articles/another-big-cbdc-flop/
The only benefit I can figure out from the rolling out CBDCs by most Central Banks is that it saves them the cost of printing money. Apart from this, it has no economic benefit to the country. The eNaira have not been widely used by Nigerians because citizens don't have confidence in the naira. The are scared that with the rate the naira losses it value, they might end up losing all their funds.

Regardless of the fall in price of bitcoin, Nigerians are alternatively embracing bitcoin, using it as a hedge against inflation. This is because they believe that bitcoin would recover from this bearish market but they don't believe that the naira would get stronger to recover all its lost worth.
I also believe that most central banks are using CBDCs to discourage its citizens to buy or use bitcoin and others. But this strategy has also failed because the benefits of bitcoin outweighs the lies they keep telling against it.     


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: crwth on December 04, 2022, 04:45:44 PM
I think if the ones that would establish the CBDC’s are the same ones who made the weak currency weak, then you could probably expect the same thing. If the people who are in charge of it are the ones who are trying to find a way to save the currency and made that way, that’s definitely going to have the same fate.

Rolling things out like that, just because it’s a new technology and not understanding how the actual economy works would be the fundamental problem that they need to solve. I just hope that can save it, but I doubt it.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: cabron on December 04, 2022, 04:54:25 PM
CBDCs are no more than fiat currency scams on steroids. As long as the current fiat system is not viable, then CBDCs are even less viable as they enable the government to engage in even more currency debasement. CBDCs cannot save weak currencies like the Ghanian Cedis, the Zimbabwean Dollar, the Venezuelan bolivar, the Argentine peso, or the Lebanese lira. The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. Infact, there are a lot of bad things that come with CBDCs and countries should avoid it. What do you think. Do you have a dissenting opinion?

https://financialunderground.com/articles/another-big-cbdc-flop/

On the one hand, CBDC is a basic element of a digital concentration camp, and on the other hand, it is a very effective tool for managing the economy. 

CBDC (in theory) allows you to fully control all income and expenses, as well as plan production and consumption.  Along with the digital marking of goods, this will ensure total control and planning of all financial and economic operations in the country. 

This will allow to produce products with minimal costs, and therefore increase the competitiveness of the country that has implemented the CBDC system.

In theory.  ;D It's more like them having full control of someone's money. The failure of eNaira may just be because the Nigerians have the option and one of the options is BTC.

If the people have the option compared to the CBDC, they will be taking that option unless the CBDC really offers something worth like airdropping thousands of the money so it can be adopted faster. The problem is if the airdrop was all spent and people still abandoning CBDC, they can't just airdrop all the time.



Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: franky1 on December 04, 2022, 08:19:19 PM
for those that cant read lengths of text or do research.. here's the summary..
its B not A
https://i.imgur.com/XKD2cum.png

to find out what i am on about try to read

alot of people are screaming with tears and tin foil that CBDC is evil. devils hand stuff.. but its obvious those people have never read a CBDC whitepapers or examined one close up. they just found a blog piece of some other non researcher that calls it bad, just to back up the screamers bias

..

many many CBDC are not set up the way cry babies think. yes there are pitfuls. but its not what you think

for one. although a central bank "pre-mines"(to compare buzzwords) trillions. they then distribute that to several commercial banks. and its the commercial banks that do the day to day work of keeping the bank statements(tx history) and also a separate database for KYC.

in many CBDC the commercial banks offer 3 tiers of accounts(wallets)
if you're on a low income needing only to ever receive or spend under X per month. meaning say $1k a month and 'save' upto $12k a year
meaning low untaxable threshold spend accounts.. there would be no KYC

then for middle income there is basic kyc
and then for large businesses/rich there is full KYC

much like how VisaCard offers:
a no kyc virtual/debit gift card program
a basic account debit/credit card with basic kyc
and a platinum/black card for the rich with full due diligence/kyc

obviously if you want to receive more than $1k in any one go you need to upgrade to the middle tier. and if rich upgrade to top tier. but you can still have a spare bottom tier account(wallet) for just play money spend amounts

there is also fundamental rules built into these systems like fungibility where by it requires court orders for authorities to gain the KYC data from the COMMERCIAL BANKS and also to freeze accounts

yep even china's CBDC functions like US fiat today
yep even chinas e-yuan is not an (A) scenario. its (b)


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: KingsDen on December 04, 2022, 08:30:24 PM
CBDCs are no more than fiat currency scams on steroids. As long as the current fiat system is not viable, then CBDCs are even less viable as they enable the government to engage in even more currency debasement. CBDCs cannot save weak currencies like the Ghanian Cedis, the Zimbabwean Dollar, the Venezuelan bolivar, the Argentine peso, or the Lebanese lira. The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. Infact, there are a lot of bad things that come with CBDCs and countries should avoid it. What do you think. Do you have a dissenting opinion?

https://financialunderground.com/articles/another-big-cbdc-flop/

The CBDC is not different from fiat currency. The difference is one is an offline or paper version while the other is a digital version. If the offline version is weak, there is nothing the online version will do to redeem the weakness. This is to say that the reason that CBDCs were created is not to combat the weakness of fiat, rather it is to promote government agenda of cashless economy. Also some countries joined the bandwagon because they don't know how the blockchain technology will turn out to be in the future so that their country will not be left behind 


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: South Park on December 04, 2022, 08:31:27 PM
I think if the ones that would establish the CBDC’s are the same ones who made the weak currency weak, then you could probably expect the same thing. If the people who are in charge of it are the ones who are trying to find a way to save the currency and made that way, that’s definitely going to have the same fate.

Rolling things out like that, just because it’s a new technology and not understanding how the actual economy works would be the fundamental problem that they need to solve. I just hope that can save it, but I doubt it.
I agree, whenever there is an economic crisis the average people asks for the government to do something about it, but in many cases the politicians behind those governments are the ones which are directly responsible for what is happening, how can anyone expect for the solution to come from the people that caused the problem in the first place? If they knew how to solve the situation then the crisis would not have occurred to begin with.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: 2stout on December 04, 2022, 08:36:25 PM
Totally agree that CBDCs won't save weak currencies.  Fiat 2.0, I mean CBDCs, can't solve for the unlimited printing press of some of these currencies.  These currencies will be devalued due to their inflationary nature.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: franky1 on December 04, 2022, 09:21:28 PM
CBDC isnt suppose to save the paper fiat.. its suppose to replace it(emphasis: slowly over years.. not months)

the blog post in the topic creators rant is a blog about how in less than a year 1% of population used CBDC

this is because the role out was not africa wide and also in africa no one was 100% single currency so trying to get 100% in less then a year was never a goal..

even el salvador did not adopt msats(Lightning network) in 4 months before el salvador tried a new approach to get people to start using crypto. but in the 9 months after first 4month trial not all el salvadorians are using crypto


using the details of china;s CBDC as many think that in their tin foil theories is the worse case use of CDBC

people can have "cash"(no kyc) wallet. where there are no barriers of entry and no big surveilance..

the pitfalls of most CBDC
small deposit/withdrawal amounts

as for surveillance. its not the central bank(gov) doing the watching and authorising of peoples/business payments.. like fiat thats for commercial banks.
and those commercial banks hold the KYC of tier 2,3 not the central bank
there are still regulators that commercial banks report to and they report to courts and courts authorise the data grab.of tier 2/3 customers/businesses

.. so it operates the same as the US fiat system now. just electronic
the pitfuls is that the commercial banks can more tightly watch on the riches money movements and tax report them easier. no more suitcases of digital cash un accounted for. for the rich. only pocket money wallets of digital "cash" for  the small spenders


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Gozie51 on December 04, 2022, 09:44:22 PM
Totally agree that CBDCs won't save weak currencies.  Fiat 2.0, I mean CBDCs, can't solve for the unlimited printing press of some of these currencies.  These currencies will be devalued due to their inflationary nature.

Yes it has the same connotations with paper money only that it printing cost is reduced from fiat but the country's economic activities and government policies will affect it like fiat too. If fiat is being devalued then it affects CBDC of the country and they sell at the same price. The value in price should be the same for both.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: serjent05 on December 04, 2022, 10:32:52 PM
CBDCs are no more than fiat currency scams on steroids. As long as the current fiat system is not viable, then CBDCs are even less viable as they enable the government to engage in even more currency debasement. CBDCs cannot save weak currencies like the Ghanian Cedis, the Zimbabwean Dollar, the Venezuelan bolivar, the Argentine peso, or the Lebanese lira. The eNaira, Africa’s first central bank digital currency (CBDC) is a total failure and did not save the Nigerian fiat currency. Infact, there are a lot of bad things that come with CBDCs and countries should avoid it. What do you think. Do you have a dissenting opinion?

https://financialunderground.com/articles/another-big-cbdc-flop/

It is because the basis of the reserve of CBDC is still the country's financial reserve. CBDC is just a digital version of cash.  The whole financial system and structure of the country are the same so of course, it will not change anything. Even Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies cannot save anyone's fiat currency.  Because in order to save any fiat currency, the country needs to improve and develop having a positive gain on its GDP to strengthen its financial reserve.


Totally agree that CBDCs won't save weak currencies.  Fiat 2.0, I mean CBDCs, can't solve for the unlimited printing press of some of these currencies.  These currencies will be devalued due to their inflationary nature.

Yes it has the same connotations with paper money only that it printing cost is reduced from fiat but the country's economic activities and government policies will affect it like fiat too. If fiat is being devalued then it affects CBDC of the country and they sell at the same price. The value in price should be the same for both.

I agree, the economic status of a country is the main reason of a certain fiat currency getting stronger or weaker.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: romero121 on December 04, 2022, 10:52:31 PM
Totally agree that CBDCs won't save weak currencies.  Fiat 2.0, I mean CBDCs, can't solve for the unlimited printing press of some of these currencies.  These currencies will be devalued due to their inflationary nature.

Yes it has the same connotations with paper money only that it printing cost is reduced from fiat but the country's economic activities and government policies will affect it like fiat too. If fiat is being devalued then it affects CBDC of the country and they sell at the same price. The value in price should be the same for both.
Yeah, the printing cost have been cut. Further it helps in making out things in a better way as everything can be kept in control as it isn't possible to hoard money illegally. There are some positive things, yet this isn't going to be an success for the countries having CBDC which is limited within the country.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: franky1 on December 05, 2022, 12:15:07 AM
just going by UK paper fiat currency.. of government money creation(bonds and QE)

when UK government want to create say $50b
they create a bond(agreement/loan) with bank of england(central).

this is where they will give the BoE 5.1b a year for 10 years(paid via tax revenue)

this digital $50b is created by BoE and sent to the government treasury account.. to be spent by government for public services. which ends up in circulation and bank(commercial) accounts of employees of public services and thus moves around to wherever they spend it next

this $50b generates $5b(10%) in tax revenue + more on the re-spends as it circulates within a year.

so now the banks(commercial) of the public now has combined extra $50b spread over customer accounts

this also means the government needs to print $2.5billion of bank notes at a print price of $25m(10p per $10 bank note)..
just so that banks(commercial) can have on hand 5% of account balance of the new amounts thats are $50b higher.. (so that ATM's are full to meet the 5% cashflow demands of withdrawals)

but the commercial banks have to buy those bank notes from the government at face value of combined $2.5b (not the governments print price)

so while the banks(commercial) hold $50b of new money. it cost them $2.5b  to end the story of the money creation process

by going CBDC the commercial banks can save themselves $2.5b every time a central bank or government wants to inject another $50b

however it means that the government treasury cannot collect on the $2.475b profit from the money creation. but still has to pay back the $5.1b a year to the BoE in repayments.

however..
by going CBDC the government can ,amdate that commercial banks monitor the income and outgoing of tier 2-3 wallets that are KYC and tax banded. and ensure the commercial banks report incomes over X so that the government can request tax from those accounts easier (send payment requests/invoices or go to court to get court order to mandate payment seizure) which is something not so easy to do in the old fiat way. thus the rich end up actually paying tax and not hiding it away as easily

.. well thats the theory and their best case scenario for CDBC


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: rokok lokal on December 05, 2022, 04:27:54 AM
It's really just a digital version of fiat currency and centralized banking, CBDCs are trying to use blockchain technology to try and solve the problems that centralized systems have, because in their minds, if you can't track them, they have no control – and they really want to maintain control .

Yes, Bitcoin is a technology and in the long term, it is a technology that will have far greater impact and reach than CBDC and if progress continues on its current path of total decentralization, blockchain based tokens will continue to be the backbone of transactions and interactions that occur. on the web and in real life.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: MoonOfLife on December 05, 2022, 05:34:31 AM
I agree with you that CBDC cannot rescue fiat because they are really one, CBDC is just digital version of Fiat and its strength depends on the economy of that country. But not all CBDCs will fail, like fiat. If the US launches its own CBDC then surely the US CDBS will have the same strength as their USD.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Argoo on January 30, 2023, 08:09:10 PM
I agree with you that CBDC cannot rescue fiat because they are really one, CBDC is just digital version of Fiat and its strength depends on the economy of that country. But not all CBDCs will fail, like fiat. If the US launches its own CBDC then surely the US CDBS will have the same strength as their USD.
The weak national currency of the states means its weak economy. Therefore, the currency is saved by strengthening the economy of the state, and not its financial system. CBDCs are only more efficient non-cash payments of the national currency of this state compared to the current existing system of non-cash payments. They improve the functioning of the national currency, but do not strengthen it. CBDC is actually not related to cryptocurrency.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: uneng on January 30, 2023, 10:21:28 PM
It's certain CBDCs aren't a solution for any countries' economies, because they are a digital copy of fiat currencies. If fiat didn't solve anything, why its digital format would? Crypto adopters are investing in bitcoin and its pairs mainly due to their profitability, but also because they don't trust what their governments promote and manage in financial terms. Since CBDCs are issued by governments, people will tend to see it in a negative way, just like they see their currently fiat national currencies.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: STT on January 30, 2023, 11:12:51 PM
Only one thing can really save a country's currency and its more related to balance of trade then anything else I think.  It helps if the government has a balanced fiscal plan and the underlying growth of the country is there such as demographic working age group expanding but same as alot of markets a demand which out weighs supply of that currency will lead to strength.      The rest of is window dressing, they might alter the liquidity, the monetary velocity possibly but base demand comes from a good set of trade deals and production by that country.   
  The reason USA has such a large advantage is every part of the world wants to hold that currency, its used far outside its borders as part of trade and the same can be true of every solid regularly trading economy I hope this is more true in future then now where politics and debt are too dominant.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: coupable on January 31, 2023, 10:45:08 PM
CBDC is just a new historical turn, the transition of money to another qualitative level. If you remember, at the beginning of civilization, existing money was provided with precious metal in it, then banknotes appeared, then a mix of fiat money and non-cash payments (now we are here). The next step is CBDC. This was driven by cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology. The essence of CBDC is total control over the movement of money and total state control over the money itself. Yes, and also the security of the financial system of the state! Because for example, CBDC solves the problem of counterfeiting, "financial attacks on the state", etc. actions.
Nothing else!

we are still in the early adoption of CBDCs. so right now the governments don't know yet the full potential or impact of its usage. but definitely, the tracking of CBDC is much easier than the usual physical fiat money. transparency is one of the things that this digital fiat can offer. but let's see how people will use this to their own advantage.
CBDC will help achieve good results for the government because it will be able to track users' transfers and the size of their savings, which is not the required efficiency at present, since a large proportion of the liquidity is used in the black market. But we should not imagine that it may succeed in helping weak currencies on any level.
Another important point that CBDC may succeed in achieving is that stablecoins are forced to be abandoned on trading platforms and the use of CBDC instead. This will definitely help avoid market disasters like the one that happened with Luna Network and Ftx platform.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Sithara007 on February 01, 2023, 04:49:18 AM
The main advantage with decentralized cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin, Cardano and Ethereum is that they work under the principle of controlled supply. On the other hand, the governments are treating CBDCs as just a tool to print more and more money. It doesn't work that way. Apart from the format, CBDC and fiat currency is the same. It is not backed up by anything. They are inflationary and became more so since the governments started to print unlimited amounts of money giving the excuse of COVID19.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: jeraldskie11 on February 01, 2023, 06:16:06 AM
I agree with you that CBDC cannot rescue fiat because they are really one, CBDC is just digital version of Fiat and its strength depends on the economy of that country. But not all CBDCs will fail, like fiat. If the US launches its own CBDC then surely the US CDBS will have the same strength as their USD.
Just because CBDC and fiat are the same, doesn't mean it can't save fiat. In my opinion, CBDC was made to prevent people to convert their money into world of cryptocurrency as they heard that cryptocurrency is a game changer, many people got rich because of this, and a hassle free mode of payment. They might scared that these will happen because it will really affect fiat worth. In other words, CBDC is just a non volatile cryptocurrency with KYC verified users. So for me, it is made to save fiat as per my knowledge.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Panos Markovits on February 01, 2023, 07:33:46 AM
The mainstream media seems to have it that Bitcoin is dead and buried, not to be resurrected any time soon. But what the media can’t seem to grasp is that Bitcoin and cryptocurrency as a whole is a technology, not just one product or service. The real revolution is in the decentralized blockchain architecture itself. While Bitcoin may be “dying” as pundits claim, they don’t even know what’s coming next and how that will be affecting their global economy.


Title: Re: CBDCs Cannot Save Weak Currencies
Post by: Smartprofit on February 01, 2023, 04:47:53 PM
I am not a fan of the CBDC system. 

However, I must agree with the statement that the state can build an efficient financial system based on the CBDC system.

All large and medium-sized corporations use such a tool for managing the production and sale of goods (works, services) as budgeting.  The USSR and communist China also used a tool called a planned economy (based on five-year plans) to manage their countries.

CBDC, combined with mandatory product labeling, can form the basis of an incredibly accurate and efficient system for controlling production, sales and consumption.  It will be a system with positive and negative feedbacks, operating in a real-time system.

It is possible that such a system will function autonomously /under the control of artificial intelligence/.