Bitcoin Forum

Today Bitcoin fell to below $17,000. How much lower will it go before it bounces back from the fallout?

Twitter of all places was where FTX CEO Sam Bankman-Fried claimed the business was solvent whereas Binance CEO Changpeng Zhao claimed the opposite and pulled out of a potential deal to buy out (or bail out) FTX.

It is looking like a disaster for those that bought Bitcoin for $30,000, $40,000, $50,000+ but what about all those FTX token holders and the losses they will incur, they will be huge too.

Relying on any one exchange to conduct so much business (FTX) has pitfalls when things go wrong as they regularly do. Binance might have the financial might at the moment to be a massive player in crypto but one day the castle CZ built could also crumble. Imagine what the losses would amount to the day Binance gets hacked again.

As for Bitcoin, the price will bounce up and down then steady before the next big news makes the price bounce all over again and the cycle continues.

we seen a similar thing with MTGOX.. the issue is the other exchanges blind sheep followed mtgox prices down. instead of severing the connection and letting mtgox fall by itself

bitcoin price vs value still has not hit its calculated bottom level. but its getting close.

i think its time other exchanges set aside FTX based partner exchanges rates. and not be so sheep following an exchange in demise

.. but then again.. the lower the price the better the discount to buy cheap coins. even im tempted to buy a load more even though i have more hoard than i need already

The situation is temporary to be honest! Currently a panic selling is ongoing and people are trying to cash out from FTX. Also today multiple international companies like Meta, Intel, Stripe have announced thousands of layoffs. Overall the day is not good to judge the fundamental of bitcoin. There's panic all over the place.

For me, it's an wonderful (once in a lifetime) opportunity to score some more bitcoins at a cheaper price. People who have surplus money, can average out their buying price during this period. The market will be up pretty soon!

https://i.imgur.com/traQVEV.jpg

Well I can no longer say that Bitcoin's all-time-low of the current cycle never goes lower than the previous cycle's ATH!  :P

Fortunately, that is irrelevant now, as I have found a much better method for explaining the Bitcoin price to people: Logarithmic rainbow charts (https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/).

Imagine how happy all those people with $17,000 buy orders must be right now...

It may seem like a fire sale now, but if we continue to dip down to $13,000 it might look like the last bull trap...  I'd be very careful rushing in to buy here.  There are a lot of coins hanging over the market that need to be sold.  Between FTX unwinding leverage, mtgox coins set to be distributed sometime next year, and now the US government sitting on a massive stack they will need to auction, it seems like there's good reason for the market to be on sale.  Hopefully at some point there's a big buyer like Apple or Amazon, but with the recession coming and those companies already pausing hiring, it looks likely that any future investment is a ways off.

Imagine those people who already bought at $17k and now they see how is at $16.5 and keeps going down.

Even if $17k looks low this is not the end of the run... And don't forget the panic sales, that will make the crash even harder. Is hard to know what to expect now, anything can happen.

Maybe a big whale see this as a nice opportunity and send the price back to $20k or even higher, just grab some popcorn and enjoy the madness.

Now we're close to hit below $16k as of this time of writing. I just don't know how long will it go down further, but it will be a big win for those who have shorted BTC, ETH, FTX, etc. Will be holding on to my BTC and ETH now though despite all of them are at a loss since I've started doing DCA.

We won't likely going to see a major bull run before the year ends, so most likely we stay bearish for long.

It is my hope that bitcoin will not make or start a bad historyof dump in November. For the last cycle, Bitcoin reached its bottom in November 2018. The present crash started in November and now another dump. There's just an unfortunate connection with the FTX market dip.

Another low is $15.8K at the moment, and it turns out that history is completely different this time around and some mindsets about beliefs can change quickly due to such a rough market reaction.

I have a buy order at $15.5K at the moment, I would love it if it would be filled completely by panic traders. Then another dip could appear as soon as $15.5K hit. If November 2021 is said to be November rain, then November 2022 is November fire. Lol

If the drama will continue to circulate and people think about more negative effects on the market for sure we can see more dump to come. Bitcoin hit the $15k low so big chance for it to hit $13k and that one is really bad to see since it might create more desperation for more people to dump more because they see how crazy the market moves at the moment. Hopefully we will not go below $10k since we are really in bad position with that.

I think 12K for 1 BTC would be a great price in the next 2 weeks :)

I strongly believe the Binance and FTX wars have caused this mess, otherwise I don't think dump like this just happened.

It's bad to think the price of bitcoin touched $10K, but maybe that's what big investors are now getting ready to get their hands on bitcoin at low bottom. I don't know where the bottom line lies for the price, but it looks like $12K is still very good not to worry about being touched for the rest of the year.

Now the bitcoin price is -76% from November 10 last year.

https://i.imgur.com/ywsclFU.png

I do actually have the funds for that if ever we would be dumping out that low but considering on the current value which is playing around $15k then it wont really be that a bad thing on buying cheap Bitcoin.
The market is in total reds now because of that FTX situation which we cant really be able to point out other relevant events which might be potentially attached to it.
Manipulation? Something which other people been throwing out.Instead of freaking out and minding and stressing yourself about the cause or the reason.It would be always
be best if you do consider on buying as of this moment and make out some DCA if the price do gets even more lower.

now, is the good time to buy your satoshis at this price range. remember, those people who are wishing btc to go down below 20k. where are they now? because imo, btc always bounce back. it may not be these coming days or months but surely, in the next coming years. we can't say also that we will experience bearish run all throughout this year. who knows, something good will come up next month and will trigger the uptrend? in this market, everything is possible to happen.

Mt Gox, there is a name I have not heard in a long time. FTX most probably will not survive in the coming days.

The price for BTC is currently under $16,000 but I would not call it an opportunity to buy at a cheaper rate. The market is too volatile, the price could drop much lower.

I suspect they wished they had purchased at the current price of less than $16,000  :o

I agree, rushing in to purchase at this moment might not be very a good idea. That recession you mentioned has already started and it is hitting hard in many parts of the world, we have no idea when the price will hit $20,000 again.

My sentiments exactly.

I recently read the news about SBF vs CZ on twitter. Actually I don't really care about this drama but what is happening now is very real and maybe the main cause is FTX going bankrupt which will be sold to Binance. I'm still looking at the bitcoin chart now and it has broken below $15860 which is very bad, but also an advantage to be able to buy bitcoin or other altcoins for such a low price.

This is exactly how the capitulation in the bear market looks like when people who were in this game for some time don't want to buy at 75% discount from the top. Feels like 2018 :)


I also think it's weird the exchange doesn't process withdrawals and is insolvent but it still produces data about price that is getting displayed on indexes.
Many smaller exchanges aren't taken into account by price tickers but insolvent exchanges are?
Also, in traditional markets if there's a threat of insolvency and panic dumping you stop trading for the day at least until there's a full statement from the people in charge. Here people are left to themselves to add fuel to the fire and burn in it.


I'll end this rant with a joke: Bankman is officially bankrupt.

According to the coinmarketcap data, the price have come down reaching $15700. As mentioned it is good to buy considering it an opportunity than analysing what these exchanges do. Being the cryptomarket leader Binance perfectly takes position to take hold. Maybe for users who doesn't find flaws with centralized system can now understand how things could happen.

These last days I checked coinmarket cap (https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/) several times to check the volume traded in the last 24 hours. I know that this value is a hard thing to measure due to wash trading.

So during these last days, the volume traded in 24 hours is usually between 30 billion and 36 billion USD.

In the last 24 hours, accordingly to coinmarketcap, it was traded more than 102 billion USD in bitcoin markets.

 Do you also feel Bitcoin will drop more than this like down to $12,000k?
I have been expecting such reduced level for Bitcoin, maybe a further dramatic news in the crypto space will send it downing. The recent market displays also has shown the power of exchange, thousand must have panic sell follow their mentors in the process. Meanwhile some are busy complaining of not buying the dip due to lack of available cash. @OP the price of Bitcoin does not matter keep gathering while you can another chance to gather. Dramatic 🐻 Bear Market

These empires and castles wouldn't last forever. It's always wrong to think that grand crypto edifices won't crumble down. CZ's empire is no exception. Sooner or later, it will have to face its own demise, too.

The history of crypto doesn't lack examples of this kind, so everybody should learn his/her lessons. Those who bought FTT and kept them in FTX had a double whammy. I hope they will finally realize the lessons this time.

But, all in all, we are all losers in this to a certain extent. Not only is this another stain in the industry's reputation, the entire market is also very badly affected. But, of course, this is also an opportunity to stack some more cheap Sats and wait for the better days.

As low as $15,000 is my prediction because for me, I always see either a psychological support or resistance at the prices divisible by $5,000. It's my own strategy on whether I need to buy or not, and there are times that I tweak this strategy of mine but... it's working fine for me. If bad news continues to be released online, we might see Bitcoin go down even lower to at around $10,000-$12,000.

This is like a Christmas sale for us long term holders TBH. Bad news like these is good news for those who want to take risks. Take the opportunity. Bitcoin never fell to these prices since November of 2020. I will buy some Bitcoins to add to my holdings that's for sure. I'm thinking of putting my money into stock market but seeing what's happening right now, I change my mind and will put it into Bitcoins. :D

how did you calculate that number?.
12K is enough dip and maybe is very crash than another time. I just read on social media in several weeks ago, I don't remember his name, but he told this price 12k, but many arguments to break his prediction which makes that status to be spamming chart and fundamental news. And, why many people wait for dip?, are they still sane?. I hope the bitcoin price not more dip than 15K, let them miss the train.

I don't think, the price of Bitcoin will decrease more than $16,000 in this month of November before it will increase higher for both traders and investors to believe that the price will definitely hit back to $50,000 before the end of this year. I think, there are opportunities for those that invested little capital in Bitcoin when the price was $20,000 some months ago, to use this current market price to buy a huge amount of bitcoins and hold until the price increase higher before they can sell to make a passive incomes. Bullish market is very close to investors to experience from the market soon, because there are some signs in the crypto market that showed that the bearish market will soon be over from the market.

You're right that this is probably a bull trap. I think the prices will go sub-$16K for a brief moment while FTX flails around trying to save itself (but only if they declare bankruptcy), but by then prices should go back to $18K.

It is hilarious to see Bitcoin falls because of altcoins.

In May, it fell because of Terra fiasco.
In November, it fell because of FTX fiasco.

Do you think these fiascos are real reasons for Bitcoin falls ?

I don't think they are real reasons. Bitcoin needs tip-of-iceberg reasons to fall like these events or pandemic. If we think neutrally, they are not real reasons but just borrowing ones for market makers to make price falls.

With the meltdown the whole market is facing dump at this time and FTX is going down with SBF networth just vanishing within one day so now hope is if CZ backup them with complete acquisition and if the deal is finalized there could be some stop otherwise we might see new lows.We are already seeing btc at $16k and next dips might surround the market but if you want then it's again an opportunity for investment because you are not getting it again so go for bitcoin investment.

The demise of Binance is almost guaranteed, like all its predecessors. But about the effects of it, these things always depend on the market situation. If there is a bear market going on or if the order books are thin because of the newbies panicking and stay away, then the effects would be a lot more than if the market is thriving and the panic and market manipulation is at a minimum.
Besides, Binance is still an altcoin exchange not exactly a bitcoin exchange to directly affect bitcoin price.

Changpeng Zhao (Binance) strategically pulled the carpet out under FTX Exchange to eliminate one of it's competitors... and there is nothing more to it.  ::)

I have seen this move several times before, where big companies buy into the smaller startups and then suddenly dump a lot of their shares or in this case "tokens" to cause panic.... then they offer to rescue to stop other people from doing it... en then at the last moment... pull out on the deal.

We should blame Changpeng Zhao (Binance) more for this disaster..... not just FTX Exchange.  >:( >:( >:(

This is unlikely since Binance stores 95% of its own and user assets on a cold wallet.


And, Binance has a $ 1 billion insurance fund created to fully cover losses from hacks. If Binance collapses, it will happen for other reasons.

It has domino or ripple effects, and it just shows that both bitcoin and altcoin market are correlated if others are saying otherwise.

Of course it's not the real reason, but as I have said, investors are very fearful and maybe thinking that the whole crypto market is going to fall very hard. And it did, it went $15k'ish, lowest low. But still bitcoin is breathing, around $16k and maybe in the next couple of days, everything will settle down. And who knows, we might see another push to $20k at the end of the year. But we can't say on the rest of the altcoins though, very risky investments.

If it drops below the $15,000 mark it will be highly damaging to potential investors. Rather than bring in opportunists or seasoned investors who will rush in to buy, I think the opposite will happen because of the fear factor of not knowing how bad the market will become before it climbs again.

It's approaching the Christmas period, I don't have the data so this is just an assumption, but I would've thought the majority potential investors would've already invested by now, since the Christmas period is notoriously expensive. Unless, you're talking about high profile investors, which are more likely to believe in a recovery than not.

If you're talking about every day investors, this might've happened at the perfect time. Investment might have been low anyhow, but we would've recovered from this news a few months into the new year, and that'll be when we see more investors.

That could mean that we see a further drop though. However, that's just a prime time for us old timers to accumulate more, right?

from what i can understand binance has given up (and i doubt they will change their mind) to buy FTX may after the due diligence that binance did, they found that FTX mishandled customer funds and also US agencies were investigating FTX, binance didn't mention that US agencies are investigating FTX, but added that these FTX issues were out of binance's control, meaning problems so big and serious that even if binance bought FTX they wouldn't be able to resolve the issues. good thing i only use binance

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well, the price is dropping and the bad news keeps coming, it looks like we're really heading for the abyss.

Sequoia Capital marks down entire $214M FTX stake to zero (https://cointelegraph.com/news/sequoia-capital-marks-down-entire-214m-ftx-stake-to-zero)

this is a time when people have to save as much money as they have and wait for the price to drop a lot and then buy a lot, after 2 years they will have high returns, but attention: I'm just talking about buying bitcoin and not shitcoins (altcoins)

The root cause of this incident was that the investment arm of FTX misappropriated the assets of its subscribers for investment and eventually became insolvent leading to bankruptcy.CZ merely stated the facts, not that he caused it.

What still surprises me is the sheer number of people that are using Binance thinking it will never get hacked (or will never collapse) and are leaving their coins there. There is too much power concentrated in one place when it comes to Binance and that cannot be a good thing in the crypto.

It cannot be denied that money usually tight during the Christmas and new year period because of obvious increase in expenditure therefore maybe there will not be too many people buying and Bitcoin price overall will probably reflect this.

As for us old timers, yes to accumulate more is what we want but without knowing which way is the market is shifting over the next few days and weeks makes it difficult? Will it bounce around even lower than $15,000 and above $17,000 before settling, or vice-versa? If we all knew the correct time to buy we would all be multi-millionaires by now ;D

Imagine what those FTX token holders are going through right now watching their investment sink in value. A month ago FTX was trading at over $26 each and are now just $3.50 after hitting a low of $2 a couple of days ago.

There we go, the global recession is here.

The only question is, are you ready for it?

When companies left and right are suddenly writing off their investments in even one company, if that one company went bankrupt, it creates a massive collateral effect where the 2nd-level investors (those who invested in the businesses who directly invested in the failed company) also write off their investments - because the direct investors are now failing too - and the effect reverberates all over the market... for a second time. This time with a more targets than CeFi lenders - now every exchange is also a target.

Yes because if we think about or look on the past, so many top exchanges have also collapsed or have been de-throned. If that can happen to them then why not on the current top exchanges we have today? For us crypto users, we shouldn't think that we are losers but think of this as another opportunity. The prices are cheap again. You know the drill.

Only those who are literally losing are the ones who invest in FTT because it was the root cause of this issue. The only bad thing about this is that it give cryptos or exchanges a bad impression which can affect the rate of adoption but time heals as they say. Let's only hope for the better.

Now keeping assets in exchange is very risky, it is better not to have all assets stored in one exchange. Had read the posts of some friends in the facebook group there were those who withdrew their money but for several hours it still hadn't come from FTX. This is very worrying considering the market is also in a state of collapse.

I think he just utter a random BTC price, though I also think why $12k and not $10k?



I think 12k is too much for a dip.  If it touches $12k, we can possibly see Bitcoin selling at lower than $10k because more people will panic sell and buyer would love to take advantage of this confusion so they will set they buy order lower in order to take advantage of the FUD.


It isn't just now but ever since that keeping asset in exchange is risky.  So as much as possible we should avoid keeping our assets in an exchange to avoid the current scenrio of FTP users where their fund is trapped inside the system of FTT.

With all these happenings, sometimes I think these are all planned moves to really hurt the crypto economy....think of it as systematic manipulation. Why should one company's down fall pull the whole market down  ??? I think it's about time we have an independent crypto regulator to help protect markets from such avoidable situations! Otherwise with Binance also pulling out from that Ftx bail out we might see price still going down, hope not below 15k !

This is the worst year in the crypto market and the year is not end yet. Let just hope it doesn’t go deeper than this cause what am looking at is saying crypto still going down.

Plan or not or simply talking about manipulative acts then it wont really be that surprising which everything could really happen and these big fellas does have the capability in doing so on shaking up the entire market.

We cant really make out some conclusions whether those are indeed intentions or totally random thing which we cant really know on whats the story behind but one thing for sure that when it comes to these negative

news and fuds then it could really potentially or likely be affecting the market.Now the price is clinging up back up again but we cant really that make out conclusions if this one
would be sustaining or would really become even more worst over time.

Nah, I don't think that someone is putting a grand scheme of everything to pull down bitcoin or crypto economy. It just so happen so let it be. Fortunately, as the price goes to $15k'ish, in the last 72 hours, pushing for a new lower lows, the market seems to be bouncing back at $18k as of this time.

So just a matter of time before we can forget about this FTX and Binance drama on the side. And for sure we have learned lessons, so I just everyone should practice it. Like not putting their hard earn trading money on exchanges.

How many people actually prepare for a recession? Individuals usually do not have the finances in the first place to accommodate problems related to global recessions but corporations can put plans in place to (try to) cope and can use the collateral damage route when wiping out their investment in loss making or sinking companies.

What happened with FTX sent a shock all over the crypto market and beyond, many individual and corporate investors will be cautious going forward.

I do not think that the FTX FUD is going to do any more damage than it already has done. What more could push down the price at this point? SBF not finding the investors who will give him billions of dollars to save his sketchy exchange? Everyone already knows that that will never happen. If I had to take a guess, I would say the FTX news has already done the most damage that it can to the price of Bitcoin. And that damage will be very short term. However I do hope people will be panic selling for a while longer. I really do not mind filling up on cheap coins as often as I can.

Well, FTX will announce it's complete collapse, and while we pretty much already know that, people will still panic. However, it's not about FTX doing anything else, it's the time it takes for people to digest the news, and when the price isn't recovering in a week's time, people then start to panic sell, which drives the price down even further. I'm not saying that will happen, but it's a possibility. Then, if in two months time we're hovering around the same amount, then people will again lose faith. It's a vicious cycle.

However, the FTX news isn't exactly FUD so not sure why you're referring to that. It has happened, and it will effect the short term price of Bitcoin. Plus, the more this happens, the more reason the government will step in, and regulate the space further. Something which some people will see as a positive as it should reduce the risk of something like this happening in the future or others will see it as more interference. I guess it depends on what side of the fence you're.

Also, it depends on what you mean by short term. This will probably have an effect on Bitcoin's price for at least a couple of months. However, the grander scheme of things, Bitcoin will likely be struggling well into 2023 due to the other things that have happened previously to this, this is just something that's compounding more doubt on top.

This happened because many funds and companies invested in FTX and therefore their collapse became very painful for the entire market. Actually, this story is not over yet, it is not clear what it can turn out for the crypto market, I see that many predict a further fall, perhaps even up to 10k. It sounds a bit implausible, but if this incident is followed by others like it, then anything can happen.

Yes, it’s true, Luna, then FTX, and there’s more to come later. All these painful incidents that caused some to lose millions of dollars give us a big lesson that Bitcoin is the only safe coin. Of course, these incidents will cause a lot of anxiety and doubt in people about cryptocurrencies and some of them will ask what if Bitcoin collapses Moreover? But I am personally reassured and believe that even if the Bitcoin collapses to the lowest price, it will rise again to new peaks, so my advice to everyone is to invest Bitcoin only in the long term.

Typical way of the Defeated Bear trying to create panics and cause the bull to retreate. The bull just gave the bear some space this time around to have certain issues fixed then rush forward in "full force" and chase the bear away

Yeah this was to me, and maybe for all the wrong reasons, the only thing that makes me think there is never again going to be a cycle we're familiar with. All bets are off, all patterns nullified, 2sf is dead, long live Bitcoin =)

What I imagined was people with 15.5 buy orders, very sad (#nojinx).