Bitcoin Forum

In the recent FTX crisis, CZ and others are emphasizing that exchanges should show the proof of reserves by the exchanges. People will only deposit and trade on exchanges who can show the proof of reserves.

Although no one is talking about the gambling site but should we demand from the gambling houses too to show their proof of reserves. In this case gamblers can be sure that if some day they win big, the gambling site will have enough funds to pay them out. I think it will be a good indicator to select the gambling site who have made their proof of reserves public.

There are sites who do show their bankrolls like this one;
https://www.bustabit.com/bankroll/overview

They might be showing off all of their bankroll or reserves or not then no one really knows.As long you would really be getting paid then that what matter the most.
Its not necessary for them to show off as long they do pay.Also, they are setting out max bets on each roll or bet for particular games for them to avoid
on getting bankrupt if ever do someone do be able to get some huge hit.They arent dumb on not to make those limitations because
it would be totally over for the said business if they arent minding on doing so.

I don't think that I have to demand them with proof of reserve. They're a business and they've shown that they've got enough money whenever I want to withdraw any amount from them. Most reputable casinos are transparent with how much they've got in their bankroll.
But to casinos like stake, they've got a lot of partnership and sponsorships to big names in different sports and that's already enough for me that if they can spend a lot of money on these marketing and deals, they've got for sure more in their reserves.

I think this context still includes a nearly correlated link to your thread https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5420555.0 Well I guess the Puzzle pieces are still unraveling. Not sure if gambling should be involved and have more attention just to show backup evidence. After all, in gambling rules not all crypto holders go in to bet in casinos. Maybe if one or two casinos are trying to show back-up evidence, it means that someone has to drum up the drums as CZ did.

I'm not sure if this is necessary though, if the FTX sets a predecence, then every crypto provider now will have to show the proof of reserves, exchanges, gambling sites, mixers, etc.

And this is casino though, we haven't heard anyone because bankrupt and gamblers can't withdraw because the casino run out of money. Remember that casino's, in every game they have the house edge, so no matter what, they wouldn't simply run out of money to pay.

Gambling sitey and exchanges are different. I do not think proof of reserve is needed for gambling sites, unlike exchanges. But if gambling sites need to providee proof of reserve, then all sites that users do deposit have to make proof of reserve available, not even only internationally, but also locally. Beside, I even only always have small money on gambling site, unlike when I want to exchange from one coin to another.

Also do not think proof of reserve can not be manipulated.

Does anyone know if anyone else has verified that proof of reserves made by CZ or Binance are true/correct? I can't be bothered to be honest.

I only know of 2 sites that ever showed proof of reserves in gambling, one was Crypto-Games.net and the other was Bitvest, but you all know that doesn't mean anything when it comes to whether or not you get paid if the worse case scenario happens right?

If I'm not mistaken you can still put up your coin as collateral and have the owner sign for you and you wouldn't know that coin is not under casino ownership.

It's called SAFU (Secure Asset Fund For Users) I don't really understand how it works.
Many gave good feedback when CZ tweeted about this but it's not clear, whether it's effective enough to prevent the exchange from being able to pay its users' funds

If this is implemented there are many things that will have to be adjusted, the reserve funds will definitely be held by a third party or referred to as escrow and there will definitely be costs to be incurred and the casinos will increase their house edge because operational costs will increase if this is implemented

SAFU is different from Proof of Reserve.

You can tell the differences from these two sites:
https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/safu
https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/11/can-proof-of-reserves-prevent-future-crypto-exchange-collapses/#:~:text=Proof%2Dof%2Dreserves%20(PoR,on%20behalf%20of%20its%20clients.



SAFU for the purpose of exchange hack, created by Binance. Proof of Reserve for the purpose of exchanges showing transparency about how they are handling customers money.

A lot of trauma going on with the market right now, from LUNA to FTX they ended up on the same faith so I think it's about time for the gambling site to disclose as well their financial status and their reserves so when bad things happen, gamblers can have an assurance that their money is safe.

For now, it's better to be safe even if you are playing with the top site, don't hold too much money with your gambling account and just stay the money you intended for gambling, you can also do this on any exchanges, transfer it to a more secured wallet.

I think there is no need to worry if it's all about gambling sites. The perception and way of doing business by a crypto gambling website are different.
Those gambling companies that have closed their business have been clear to their customers and community by telling them what they're about to do like, closing the business. They give a certain period of time for withdrawals and until when customers will be catered for their not yet withdrawn funds. At least from that experience and observation that I've seen from most of them, they're all good in their closure and had satisfied everyone until their last minutes of operation.

I don't think it's necessary to demand that the casino sites show proof of their backup because I'm sure they keep the funds in their cold wallets and don't keep any exchanges, so that issue should be separated FTX with the casino site, keep in mind to play on a trusted casino site

Gambler doesn't keep their funds on their account for a long time. Most of the gamblers request for a withdrawal after completing their gambling activity. Although some bettors keep their funds on some casinos where they receive extra benefits (staking profit). Some old casinos were showing their proof of funds by signing a message with their Bitcoin address. Old reputable casino has the capability to pay big withdrawals to it's user. But they won't post their reserves fund proof publicly.

I also think that this will become a new norm for the crypto industry. Every project no matter exchange, business or gambling will show their proof of reserves to gain the investor's confidence. Although it will not be mandatory but those who will show their balance sheet publicly will get more confidence from the investors and players if we talk specifically about the gambling industry.

This has already been talked about in social media and companies are thinking seriously into it. The black swan FTX event has made people think differently about the projects.

The truth be told, the proof of reserve idea is really a good one, this is because it will will not create trust for the casino, but it will also help the gamblers build confidence in the casino knowing that when they win a significant amount of money, it will be paid, this  I think will even benefit newer casinos the more since they are building their customer based and need gamblers to trust and play on their casino.

But on the other hand, this cant be a good idea for a lot of casinos since one of the reasons many of them build a crypto casino is to hide their income as a business from several eyes including the government and other regulatory bodies to avoid being asked to pay too much tax and the likes.
Though this is just my assumption, but here, for casinos, i think the disadvantage very much outweighs the benefits, its likely not possible for any casino to implement this except it becomes a major law for the casinos to do so.

That means doxxing what they really have and that they are liquid, I think it should include publicly on what are there addresses it is held, so people can watch it closely. I think people has freedom to choose where they can deposit it but for me I think decentralized exchanges are still the best in this stance even if proof of reserve is present.

This might be off topic but showing proof of reserve for gambling doesn't mean they'll pay huge wins to users unless they do the KYC stuff. I'd say it put trust there but to what extent?

Can we even force the casinos to show thier reserves? 
Some of them may probably show thier reserves just to build a reputation, which will make the casino easy to market itself.

But seems easy for them to just suspend the account after finding some errors from users in order not to withdraw in case they win big than showing the money.  They will even dig for information from the game developers to find errors.

That's a good idea I hope they adopt it, but this is not an exchange its a casino a gambling site where a bettor coming from hundreds of dollars can win 5 digits this will shake up their reserves and players will be alarmed if the reserves will
not match the potential winning of their players and of course, casinos can lie about their reserves, for me as long as they can keep up paying big winnings I don't see any issue at all, their transparency is if they can and able to pay their winners.

If proof of reserves for gambling sites become more of a common thing with gambling sites, it can foster trust that people have that a gambling site is capable of paying them their money if they win big. Proof of reserves can still be deceitful, I feel that a gambling site that have a bad paying character will still just use their proof of reserve to lure players, but can still make payment process to a winner who wins big difficult. It can be a good indicator of a good gambling site, but it still does not give assurance.

Due to the challenges faced by the cryto-space people are thinking of diverse means of proving authenticity and capacity. We have many renowned casino companies that are very reliable and dependable. They have a solid and sound reputation that they are not willing to dent. You can find most of the in this platform, they are well trusted. You don't need to worry if they fail to apply any policy on proof of reserves.

But this idea of showing proof of reserves by casino sites should be implemented in some unreliable or newly established gambling platforms. We have had issues where some gambling firms has failed to pay some winners because they don't have the funds they claim they have.   

They're not obliged to do that. But just like the given example of bustabit, bustadice also has the same feature. As I've been part of its campaign before. They're transparent and they have numbers on their website of how much they've got in their bankroll.

The amount of bankroll they have is visible on their website. So if someone wants to look at how much they've got, you can freely check it. But this is not for most casinos and to demand them, it's up to them if they'll consider the recent situation and issue about FTX.

If there's no protest or demand from most of its loyal customers, they don't have to do that.

This proo of funds thing is only advisable on new casino since established casino proven there reputation base on their years of service. I doubt casino will suffer same fate with exchange since they never use customer funds on leveraging other financial institutions staff. Most of the casino didn't touch the bank roll since withdrawal is very important in there business. A minimal delay will ruin there reputation and thatywhat matter most than asking them to show proof of reserves.

You can follow there hot wallet by tracing those wallet address that sent you the balance once ypu request a withdrawal.

I found kucoin doing this as i just received an email from them regarding this.

About the casino doing the same seems unreasonable to me. One of the reasons why exchanges doing this is because of community fears of another exchange shutting down of being liquidated due to this long bear season.

While most casinos are USD based not crypto ^{(only accepts crypto deposits/withdraws)}, so whatever happens to the market they will be still there. Those casinos who stop operating have their reasons, mostly of low demand or high competition that drags them below.

Crypto casinos prefer to register in countries with less strict rules so this makes me think the Proof of Reserves may be too much of a hassle for these platforms. I like the idea of it but you cannot force them to comply. Maybe it will be more convenient for them to make public the cold wallets they use to store their reserves. They can sign a message as proof.

It would be a good idea for casinos to show proof of reservations, but this will not guarantee that the casino will pay out every time someone wins, we have seen several cases where casinos have used their TOS to not pay customers, so show proof of reservations it won't help at all. maybe it can even be a comfort to some people who want to play with a lot of money, but the problem always arises at the time of withdrawal, people don't keep money in online casinos, that's why the casino is different from the exchanges in which people save money on exchanges. the solution to many problems would be for governments to pass laws that allow periodic inspections of exchanges and casinos

After a casino gets a license,  they are up to making people play in the casino. It has to be the government that will require them to show how much they have so that bet limits can be set. But even if the governments do all these to prevent casino scams, no enforcer can monitor what casinos are doing 24/7.

Someone won $80K from Owl Casino so the casino just suspend the account for investigation. Who's stopping them?
What's best to do I think is just limit your bet. Don't try to win a million a day or simply just withdraw bit by bit.