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Economy => Economics => Topic started by: Hydrogen on November 23, 2022, 10:46:17 PM



Title: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Hydrogen on November 23, 2022, 10:46:17 PM
Quote
“Demographic shifts” can mean many things. The composition of a body of people—median age, ethnic makeup, and more—all fall into the category.

But in the context of the labor shortage that has gripped the world economy since the pandemic began, it has coincided with one of Elon Musk’s big worries: The world isn’t having enough babies.

He has previously said the world’s declining birth rate is “one of the biggest risks to civilization,” which will “crumble” if the world doesn’t have more children. Now two major employment websites, Indeed and Glassdoor, are looking forward to 2023’s workforce (and well beyond that) to predict whether the “demographic shifts” of the last few years will continue. In short, yes—and it means the labor shortage is here to stay for a while.

Using World Bank projections and analyzing employment trends across several countries, economists for both job sites found the number of people of working age (15 to 65) is set to decline in the coming years. That means hiring will be more difficult and workers will have more leverage over employers.

The decline in people of working age will partly stem from an aging population, the number of deaths exceeding births, and reduced immigration. For example, the U.S. and U.K.'s population growth will be driven solely by net migration. And in the U.K., deaths are projected to exceed births by 2025.

The U.S., U.K., France, and Canada are all projected to see their working-age population decline by more than 3% from 2026 to 2036.

Meanwhile, during that same period, Germany is projected to see a decline of more than 7%—driven by its aging population and migration trends that haven’t returned to pre-pandemic levels.

Additionally, the report said Japan’s demographic prospects are “particularly stark,” with its population forecasted to fall from 128 million in 2010 to below 100 million by 2050—and the share of those ages 65 and older will soar.

“Without sustained immigration, an increase in labor productivity, or a focus on attracting workers on the sidelines of the labor force, these countries simply won’t have enough workers to fill long-term demand for years to come,” Indeed and Glassdoor’s chief economist wrote in a foreword to the report.

So despite warnings of a looming recession, and a potential decline in “employers’ hiring appetites,” finding candidates will be a challenge—giving way for workers to demand higher pay, stronger benefits, and flexible schedules.

“In a moment like this, with so many headlines about layoffs, it perhaps feels a little bit weird to talk about long-term hiring challenges,” Aaron Terrazas, chief economist at Glassdoor, told Bloomberg. “But the reality is, it is precisely in moments like this when it's easy to lose the trees for the forest. It’s easy to conflate the near-term cyclical with long-term structural challenges in the labor market.”

But a declining birth rate isn’t necessarily bad news despite the hiring challenges it may present. It’s often a sign of economic progress: Women have more opportunities to choose their own path in life, whether it’s prioritizing school, a career, or a life without children at all.

While some demographers worry alongside Musk that this could create a workforce crisis down the line, it doesn’t have to come to that if society adjusts properly. This may vary from country to country depending on their economies, but it's at least the case in the U.S., as Christine Percheski, associate professor of sociology at Northwestern University, told Insider last year, the country would need to make structural adjustments like creating new policies that accommodate changes in population size.

Besides—while U.S. birth rates hit a record low during the pandemic, a new study from the Economic Bureau of Research found that there was a COVID “baby bump” after all. Whether this will hold steady is unclear, but it shouldn’t matter for the workforce if we shift our mindsets to view a lack of labor as more of a new norm than a shortage and adjust accordingly.

That might begin with paying attention to employees’ changing wants and needs. They care more about a company’s culture and its diversity and inclusivity initiatives, the report found. So to stay competitive in a challenging labor market, employers have to keep up with workers’ demands.

“Beyond a competitive wage, offering employees top-notch benefits, positive, engaging company culture, and commitment to DEI initiatives will remain incredibly important to help win talent in a competitive and changing labor market,” the report said.



https://news.yahoo.com/world-baby-shortfall-bad-labor-190124685.html


....


I seem to remember economic charts claiming average worker productivity has more than doubled from the 1950s to present day. If productivity continues to increase, the population and worker size needed to sustain construction, maintenance and development projects should shrink. On the opposite end of the spectrum, reports have claimed more than 50% of jobs are vulnerable to automation. People of today are caught somewhere in the middle of both trends. Not the most comfortable or stable place to be. And so perhaps begins the genesis of some of the future crisis we will face.

The unsaid argument would appear to be one where predominantly european nations attempt to produce more children. To maintain a majority in the face of high immigration. Not knowing that many 3rd world countries have families that produce 10 to 20 children as an ideal standard. If residents of european descent nations could produce that many children, I think they could not afford to feed, school and clothe them. The strategy is flawed on a fundamental level.

It is also possible that nations of european descent have lived without real competition or conflict for too long. It has made us soft and unappreciative of the high standards of living we enjoy. Perhaps being forced to compete and struggle for survival will bring the best ouf of us. And that will not necessarily be a bad thing.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: STT on November 23, 2022, 11:29:50 PM
Its true of China and alot of westernized countries that they become top heavy.  Its deceptively not important to the majority of people but it matters if you ever intend to retire.  Despite all your savings, a person who stops working is relying on a working economy of the young people of that nation to maintain a countries ability to buy goods from abroad and produce its own.  Especially if you own currency or bonds this is your future as a retired person but it applies to the whole of society, very few people can say they are fine no matter what; all of us import in goods for convivence and time.
  Ultimately without working young people the price to buy pre made goods will rise, if you arent doing it yourself you rely on others to do it so maybe you own it but a country becomes insecure.   Japan is quite advanced in this regard as a study of advanced average age in a population.
 
  China enforced 1 child policy for decades, this means the country has a declining working population.  Despite having alot of people, everyday China is becoming less competitive and Vietnam can undercut them today and in future many nations which leaves technology perhaps as a savior only maybe.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Zlantann on November 24, 2022, 10:06:56 AM

It is also possible that nations of european descent have lived without real competition or conflict for too long. It has made us soft and unappreciative of the high standards of living we enjoy. Perhaps being forced to compete and struggle for survival will bring the best ouf of us. And that will not necessarily be a bad thing.

No continent or nation is an island, because we all need each other to survive. Currently Asia and Africa has population advantage than Europe, while Europe are more prosperous and technologically advanced. Europe would continually need immigrate workers because it seem that most families are not willing to give birth to many children. But most families in Africa can somehow afford to give birth and rise many children even in the face of economic hardship. It has been like this for many centuries and it would take a long time to change this population imbalance.

Europe don't need to compete with other countries regarding population because they might never win. Workable and productive immigration policies should be put in place to attract the right skills from other populated countries to Europe. Rich countries should invest on these developing and populated nations in areas like infrastructures, education and security. This would discourage illegal immigrations and also serve as a immigration pool where European nations can successful attract the needed manpower that might coverup for their population deficiency.     


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: lovesmayfamilis on November 24, 2022, 10:44:26 AM
As long as European society is democratic toward LGBT members, they should not expect an increase in the population. As for Asian society, there has always been overpopulation and a high birth rate. A good way out of the situation for all Europeans will be if they themselves are not able to give birth to children, help Asian countries educate children, and make them good specialists.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Gyfts on November 24, 2022, 01:15:13 PM
Normally the young workers subsidize the cost of of older retired workers but the ratio isn't proportional anymore with how high the life expectancy is and how low the birth rates are, so perhaps countries with lower birth rates could loosen up the immigration laws and import more labor for lower skilled jobs and allow immigrants to work up the economic ladder. There are millions of immigrants ready to immigrate to newer countries if given the opportunity -- cultural assimilation would be a barrier, but I figure it's a low cost to pay if your population isn't able to maintain itself.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: stompix on November 24, 2022, 01:40:27 PM
As long as European society is democratic toward LGBT members, they should not expect an increase in the population.

Wow, thee must be a lot of LGBT members in Russia based on this assumption
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/20/blob1685d23c391b0795.png

As for Asian society, there has always been overpopulation and a high birth rate.

I wonder why here LGBT doesn't matter, of course, there are no such people in the Philippines or Malesia or Vietnam or Sarcasmland.
Let's throw in (https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/2021-06/LGBT%20Pride%202021%20Global%20Survey%20Report_3.pdf) Mexico or Brazil?
You're going to have a shock once you realize there is different world outside what russiatoday is telling you.

But most families in Africa can somehow afford to give birth and rise many children even in the face of economic hardship. It has been like this for many centuries and it would take a long time to change this population imbalance.   

They afford to give birth, but they don't afford to actually grow them and provide the resources for studying and changing their lives, they will live in poverty, sharing the few pennies their parents earn, then marry at your age to split the costs of living then having more kids because that's how they were bought up and so on and on.
The same thing happened in Europe also, my grandparents combined had 21 brothers and sisters, and now only one of all my same-age relatives has 2 kids the rest, just like me have just one.

The focus has shifted from having a large family to supporting each other to having a smaller one that can afford everything without sacrifices.

In short, yes—and it means the labor shortage is here to stay for a while.

Oh wait, does this invalidate the other 10 articles you linked about the sky-high unemployment that will follow this "recession", and other predictions?  ;)


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: so98nn on November 24, 2022, 06:30:48 PM
We are short of babies, dam that must be psychic assumption from Elon Musk. I think he does not understand each baby costs you food, money, health and living! From diaper changing to making him/her marry a right person it takes huge stuff from parents.  ::)

Dude does not even know there is part of world which is vulnerable to higher death rate due to hunger and no water and no proper authorities to provide substantial healthcare.

And he wants to grow the population even more?

I have seen him stating that “AI are far more dangerous than Nukes” and that mean automatic industry is gonna take peak soon. Where would the extra babies work?

Oh yeah right may be Mars.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Smartprofit on November 26, 2022, 07:42:01 AM
We are short of babies, dam that must be psychic assumption from Elon Musk. I think he does not understand each baby costs you food, money, health and living! From diaper changing to making him/her marry a right person it takes huge stuff from parents.  ::)

Dude does not even know there is part of world which is vulnerable to higher death rate due to hunger and no water and no proper authorities to provide substantial healthcare.

And he wants to grow the population even more?

I have seen him stating that “AI are far more dangerous than Nukes” and that mean automatic industry is gonna take peak soon. Where would the extra babies work?

Oh yeah right may be Mars.

In many countries, an increase in living standards leads to a decrease in the birth rate.  

People try to live for their own pleasure and have sex using condoms.  They eat delicious food, drink delicious drinks, buy expensive clothes and household appliances, attend theaters and concerts.  The uneducated poor have only one entertainment in life - to have sex without condoms.  Wealthier people in big cities have a million ways to entertain themselves.  

However, there are many different countries in the world and not all countries have a high standard of living.  There is also labor migration.  

People from poor depressed regions move to richer countries.

In my opinion, demographic problems are problems that can be solved, it is not fatal for humanity.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: gantez on November 26, 2022, 08:29:35 AM
If Elon musk is needing more children, he need to know that they will be growing into youths that will need jobs additional to what the world feeling at current. He should plan of establishing more companies where can absolve more employees. Apart from Tesla employing 99,000 people  (https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+employees+does+tesla+have)
, tweeter is around  7,500  (https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+employees+in+twitter).

https://i.imgur.com/nQjbXDw.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/V6So2kg.png

More real manufacturing company is needed from musk to back up his agenda for more children.




Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: kryptqnick on November 26, 2022, 08:36:19 AM
Birth decline can be worse in some places and nearly nonexistent in others. Migration, as the article duly notes, can help with the labor shortage, so there's finally a good argument against the misguided anti-immigration rhetoric. I personally think that all should be welcome if they wish to relocate, and it's in the interest of those states that welcome immigrants to find them jobs and basic living opportunities. I've seen a lot of research that in the vast majority of cases, such investments pay off, so it's not only ethically but also economically desirable.
Not to mention a couple of positive things the article mentioned, such as fewer births indicating more opportunities for women being available and workers now having more leverage over employers due to labor shortage.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: DrBeer on November 26, 2022, 12:46:18 PM
Given the increase in the level of automation and robotization of production, the demand will be left to educated specialists. The demand for a simple labor force is unlikely to grow, as the population growth in third world countries outpaces the growth in developed countries. Accordingly, the demand for a simple labor force will be covered by third world countries. The population growth in developed countries is already not high, but stable enough, and will cover the need for educated personnel at the same level as now. Yes, there will be a small drawback, but critical problems, subject to a higher level of automation, most likely will not happen


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 04:45:58 PM
We are short of babies, dam that must be psychic assumption from Elon Musk. I think he does not understand each baby costs you food, money, health and living! From diaper changing to making him/her marry a right person it takes huge stuff from parents.  ::)

Dude does not even know there is part of world which is vulnerable to higher death rate due to hunger and no water and no proper authorities to provide substantial healthcare.

And he wants to grow the population even more?

I have seen him stating that “AI are far more dangerous than Nukes” and that mean automatic industry is gonna take peak soon. Where would the extra babies work?

Oh yeah right may be Mars.

In many countries, an increase in living standards leads to a decrease in the birth rate.  

People try to live for their own pleasure and have sex using condoms.  They eat delicious food, drink delicious drinks, buy expensive clothes and household appliances, attend theaters and concerts.  The uneducated poor have only one entertainment in life - to have sex without condoms.  Wealthier people in big cities have a million ways to entertain themselves.  

However, there are many different countries in the world and not all countries have a high standard of living.  There is also labor migration.  

People from poor depressed regions move to richer countries.

In my opinion, demographic problems are problems that can be solved, it is not fatal for humanity.
To be honest, I haven't thought of that. Now, due to the modern age, condoms are pretty much the easiest and safest method to prevent STDs and unwanted pregnancies. A few decades ago, their usage wasn't as widespread compared to now, which potentially also contributes to the birth deficit the West is facing. You can easily guess that 3rd world countries aren't keen on using them judging by how many children they're having, living in poor conditions, and often working since a very young age. 

People in the past had larger families but different raising standards. Children now require a lot more attention and activities, and we're focusing on their education. The total population is constantly rising; it reached 8 billion a few days ago, but this increase is not coming from the West. In the next few years, we're going to face extreme immigration issues, something we're already facing.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: 2stout on November 27, 2022, 09:28:19 PM
If this baby shortfall is indeed this bad, then perhaps robotics and automation could help fill the void.  Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on one's view, it appears 3rd worlds will continue to supply the bulk of the manual labor.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: KingsDen on November 27, 2022, 09:32:05 PM
Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years

Every excesses have something to curb it. The nature has a way to balance itself. If it is not balanced by nature, technology will balance it.
Can we say that since the land is fixed and the population is increasing, there will be a time that the world land mass will no longer contain the population of the world?

The more the world goes, the more physical industries collapse and pave way for amazon like industries that houses a large percentage of the world without a building.

Nothing to fear, technology and robotics is knocking so many people out of job. Presently there is a very large rate of unemployment, when will the shortage of labor happen?


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: dothebeats on November 27, 2022, 11:38:59 PM
Given how a lot of jobs are being automated right now, I guess the decline in birth rates wouldn't be any problem at all. In manual labor and trades where manpower is really needed, perhaps that will be the industry which would be hit the most. Outsourcing employees has been the go-to of Western countries for a long time if they want something done at a very cheap rate, and if Western employers are keen on extending their workforce without having to pick underqualified Westerners for the job, they can invest on some workers from Asia and other populous countries and fly them to where they wanted them to do the job. Quite expensive investment at first but it pays off knowing how a lot of Asian people have good work ethics even in this day and age of quitters and "quite resignation" trend.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: adaseb on November 28, 2022, 05:11:07 AM
This is why many countries such as Canada are increasing immigration. Because it’s expensive having kids here, nobody is having them. If they are it’s usually 1 kid. Daycare and everything is so expensive nobody can afford kids.

The governments solution is to allow immigration. Which would solve the cheap labor issue but where will these people live? We got a bad housing situation in Canada. It will solve one problem and create another pretty much.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: siniminomorocomunisakito on November 28, 2022, 05:25:12 AM
In my view, the most promising way to solve the demographic problem on Earth is to increase the average standard of living in underdeveloped countries, and equality of rights for women in these countries.

Any country that implements a social policy to help families, such as paid maternity leave, will have fewer demographic problems. In this case, demographic issues can be easily overcome.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Ahli38 on November 28, 2022, 06:02:19 AM
But for now in my country the opposite is happening. i.e. we have a lot of human resources but we lack job vacancies. and the number of unemployed in our country is very large.
even technological advances have taken away the jobs of thousands of people in factories near my house. there is no link for proof because no one has reported it. namely shoe factories in my area initially absorbed nearly 25 thousand employees who worked in them. In the process of making shoes there is something called cutting. and the number of workers is thousands of people. and now almost everyone in charge of cutting at the factory has been dismissed. because the factory now uses machines/robots to process cutting materials for shoes. so that the presence of these machines or robots has caused thousands of people to lose their jobs in my area. and I think things like this don't just happen in my area but on other area too.

so for me for now we (in my country) are more worried about the fewer job vacancies. while undergraduate graduates continue to grow every year. and causing the unemployment rate to continue to rise.

on the other hand, MSMEs also continue to grow more rapidly because people who do not have a job prefer to make their own business. it looks good. but in fact the competition is getting tighter. so that the number of consumers is not balanced with the increasing number of traders. so that many of the MSME traders experienced bankruptcy.

I think worrying about the current declining population rate for some countries is unnecessary. but I also know that in some countries there is a shortage of workers and it is only natural for some of these countries to be worried about the decline in the population level in their country. but the solution is always there and has even been done.

namely countries such as Japan and Malaysia always bring in workers from other countries which do have excess workers such as from Indonesia.

Another solution to the shortage of workers is the use of robots which are now growing rapidly.

And it would be hilarious if one day the people who spoke about the concerns of the human population and workers. are those robot developers. which has replaced many human jobs.

Sorry if my discussion is a little off topic.


And what is noteworthy is that the Indonesian state has actually carried out a family planning program since 1957. That is, we were only advised to have 2 children per family. but population growth here is still out of control.
(Bkkbn.go.id (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bkkbn.go.id/pages-sejarah-bkkbn-2012044806-352&ved=2ahUKEwjU9Lidm9D7AhXW0nMBHfUdClsQFnoECBYQBQ&usg=AOvVaw15hu_rLZMV__alWmRfensX))


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: DrBeer on November 28, 2022, 07:26:30 AM
A few words about what many do not like - automation and robotization of production. I often hear that "she is to blame for the fact that we were left without work." Today, automation in 99% replaces, not the most qualified, manual labor. Here's how the post above - about cutting blanks for shoes.
But people do not understand that this is a NATURAL process!
Mankind has already passed it a huge number of times. The first lifting machines - dampened the demand for primitive physical strength and a huge number of people. The first ICEs - replaced horse teams and removed almost completely a whole layer of the economy - horse breeding, forging, and others related to this process. That is what is happening now. But there are many people who, realizing the coming changes, have prepared - trained, invested, changed jobs ... No offense - but people more often choose the path of complaining and suffering about absolutely simple events and expected things, but they don’t want to do anything to change themselves, and don't suffer.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Mauser on November 28, 2022, 07:56:03 AM
The unsaid argument would appear to be one where predominantly european nations attempt to produce more children. To maintain a majority in the face of high immigration. Not knowing that many 3rd world countries have families that produce 10 to 20 children as an ideal standard. If residents of european descent nations could produce that many children, I think they could not afford to feed, school and clothe them. The strategy is flawed on a fundamental level.

It is also possible that nations of european descent have lived without real competition or conflict for too long. It has made us soft and unappreciative of the high standards of living we enjoy. Perhaps being forced to compete and struggle for survival will bring the best ouf of us. And that will not necessarily be a bad thing.

I feel like the whole immigration policies we have in Europe for the last 10 years are not really working out in the way they are supposed to. It's been almost 8 years since the large migration from the middle east to Europe, and I am still not hearing about all the positive benefits which were promised to us. It's true that European countries are ageing and we need more young people over here. But what is more critical is that European countries try to get all their young people into universities. It became so common to have an Bachelor or Masters degree over here, that we are lacking a lot of young people doing the actual work. There are more than 1 million people missing from the workforce in specialised works like construction, nursing, electronics or other jobs where you don't need a long theoretical education but rather a practical education. And from what I have heard is that young people who are immigrating to Europe are also not keen to work in those areas. Many parents from abroad doing everything in their power to send their children to university over here. It also doesn't help that university education is for free and the government will give you money for your living expenses without any interest during your studies. This trend is going to get larger in my country, we will have more unemployed university graduates and not enough actual workers doing the necessary jobs. Hopefully with the double digit inflation we have now the income for the lower level jobs is going to rise exponentially to make it more attractive for younger people in school right now to switch career paths.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Smartprofit on November 28, 2022, 02:35:49 PM
A few words about what many do not like - automation and robotization of production. I often hear that "she is to blame for the fact that we were left without work." Today, automation in 99% replaces, not the most qualified, manual labor. Here's how the post above - about cutting blanks for shoes.
But people do not understand that this is a NATURAL process!
Mankind has already passed it a huge number of times. The first lifting machines - dampened the demand for primitive physical strength and a huge number of people. The first ICEs - replaced horse teams and removed almost completely a whole layer of the economy - horse breeding, forging, and others related to this process. That is what is happening now. But there are many people who, realizing the coming changes, have prepared - trained, invested, changed jobs ... No offense - but people more often choose the path of complaining and suffering about absolutely simple events and expected things, but they don’t want to do anything to change themselves, and don't suffer.

Perhaps in the future we will see that a slave system has been established on planet Earth.  

At the same time, people (of the Homo sapiens type) became the new slave owners, and robots, bots and algorithms became slaves.  

Such a social order may be aimed at the survival and development of mankind as a species.  

For example, science and technology ..

For the development of scientific and technological progress, a huge number of scientists and engineers are needed.  However, there are not enough smart and skilled professionals in these fields to research everything that needs to be studied and researched.  But if every scientist and engineer has a million assistants - neural networks, artificial intelligence, robots, algorithms, bots, etc., then such a specialist will be able to increase his productivity a million times.  

The situation is similar with an industrialist or a farmer.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: franky1 on November 28, 2022, 07:20:19 PM
world birth rate has declined.. but so has CHILD death rate

overall family sizes are still above 2

it was over 4 in the pre modern era.. but then.. we didnt have hospital care back then. so the death rate was high and life span was low

when it comes to "how many people are over 60yo"
comparing it to 100 years ago. there will be more retiree's/pensioners in 50-100 years time.. meaning the labour force is fine


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: DrBeer on November 29, 2022, 08:24:44 AM
Perhaps in the future we will see that a slave system has been established on planet Earth.

At the same time, people (of the Homo sapiens type) became the new slave owners, and robots, bots and algorithms became slaves.

Such a social order may be aimed at the survival and development of mankind as a species.

For example, science and technology ..

For the development of scientific and technological progress, a huge number of scientists and engineers are needed. However, there are not enough smart and skilled professionals in these fields to research everything that needs to be studied and researched. But if every scientist and engineer has a million assistants - neural networks, artificial intelligence, robots, algorithms, bots, etc., then such a specialist will be able to increase his productivity a million times.

The situation is similar to an industrialist or a farmer.

Let's just say, I don't see a LACK of scientists now, I see a lack of knowledge and technologies to solve current and future tasks and problems. And this is the transition from quantity to quality. It's like a popular saying - if one woman can bear a child in 9 months, this does not mean that 9 women will give birth to a child in 1 month.
But technology and knowledge, they are a derivative of the quality of education, the teaching materials used, and the technical base.
In addition, look at today's world - neural networks, AI, ultra-fast computing - all this is becoming the strongest assistant to today's scientists and inventors. And this gives results faster than giving birth, growing up, educating and educating a person, and getting an excellent scientist. This is 20-30 years, and technologists allow you to get the result already in 1-2-3 years ... Therefore, I will assume that there will be a qualitative migration of quantity.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: justdimin on November 29, 2022, 09:02:03 AM
Perhaps in the future we will see that a slave system has been established on planet Earth.  

At the same time, people (of the Homo sapiens type) became the new slave owners, and robots, bots and algorithms became slaves.  

Such a social order may be aimed at the survival and development of mankind as a species.  

For example, science and technology ..

For the development of scientific and technological progress, a huge number of scientists and engineers are needed.  However, there are not enough smart and skilled professionals in these fields to research everything that needs to be studied and researched.  But if every scientist and engineer has a million assistants - neural networks, artificial intelligence, robots, algorithms, bots, etc., then such a specialist will be able to increase his productivity a million times.  

The situation is similar with an industrialist or a farmer.
Slave system is not really "gone" if you ask me. I am gladfully out of the regular 9-5 work life, I live a great life. But, I see my friends and my friends are living a life that is bound by shackles of our economic system.

If you want to quit your job, which many still do, you have to face starvation and bankruptcy if you fail to find a job. That is why it's clear that we shouldn't really be focusing on doing anything crazy like quitting without finding a job but still some do. Others, people who are afraid that they can't find a job, ends up with a trouble such as working at a job they hate and spending 1/3 of their life just so they can survive.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: franky1 on November 29, 2022, 12:17:21 PM
the jobs market is not the problem of population numbers

in the 1940's men coming back from war found their wives having jobs and doing things men did. meaning less jobs available for men.

this was not a 50% population growth. this was just giving jobs to non-men

this is why in the 1950's ther were big campaigns, tv shows and stuff trying to set a stereotype that "a womans place is in the kitchen" to try to get women out of the job market and back to being house wives..

disclaimer:
women were never all "housewives" woman for centuries have had jobs and worked. however for centuries women did not enter certain industries such as construction, management. etc but woman did work for centuries in other industries

..
more recently we are seeing a change again. it used to be that people started at the bottom and promoted their way to the top. whereby managers of companies were atleast 40+ year old before getting those titles. now we are seeing fresh graduates becoming CEO's

other things like the working age changed from 55 to now approaching nearly 70. meaning more people staying in the jobs market

and ofcourse efficiency changes of mass production where by many jobs are no longer required. meaning new industries need to be invented to have jobs for those that cant get a job in legacy industries

however this has not helped much.
for instance in the 1950's a retailer would have 1000 customers and 5 staff which is a 1:200 staff:customer ratio

we now have industries where 7000 staff service 350million customers
1:50000 staff:customer ratio(twitter employee:user rate)


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: The Sceptical Chymist on November 29, 2022, 03:44:47 PM
People are so divided and angry and many can't even definitively call themselves a man or a woman--so it's no wonder nobody's fucking.

If I could get my sig-campaign castle (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5390048) going, I'd happily impregnate all the females who'd want to get down with the likes of me.  It'd be like a madhouse, worthy of its own television series.  What is wrong with the youth of today?  I see tons of Youtubers pretty much deriding any sexual jokes or references to sex between partners who might be years apart in age, and in general I get the impression youngsters are kind of prudish.  That's a generalization, of course, but if I'm at least partially correct then my guess is that there's going to be another generation gap; once those 20-somethings get older and finally get that gigantic stick out of their asses they'll figure out what they've been missing.

Fuck 'em if they don't want to breed.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: franky1 on November 29, 2022, 04:25:34 PM
there is not a population problem for jobs

what there is a problem is for taxes and pensions to prop up the mistakes made of the last generations

many pension trusts have been raided and need to be refilled before people reach retirement age and so it needs more tax and pension plan investment to fill those pots..

the next financial crises will be pension pot funding.

..
here is the US Male population by age
00-04   9.62
05-09   10.38
10-14   10.99
15-19   11.02
20-24   10.97
25-29   11.38
30-34   11.67
35-39   11.26
40-44   10.59
45-49   9.88
50-54   10.44
55-59   10.63
60-64   10.33

more people are entering retirement than being born
BUT there are alot in the lower working age NOW of 15-45 that will keep things going..

the FEAR is if in 5 years time the todler rate remains below 10m every time for about 2 decades. then it can affect things for those at the end of their working life


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: South Park on November 29, 2022, 05:39:25 PM
This is why many countries such as Canada are increasing immigration. Because it’s expensive having kids here, nobody is having them. If they are it’s usually 1 kid. Daycare and everything is so expensive nobody can afford kids.

The governments solution is to allow immigration. Which would solve the cheap labor issue but where will these people live? We got a bad housing situation in Canada. It will solve one problem and create another pretty much.
What we are seeing right now with a decrease in the number of children being born is close to what we see in nature, if for example there is a very harsh winter in a particular region of the world then it is to be expected the death rate will be higher and the young and weak animals will die, humans thanks to our ability of foresight can see this ahead of time and we can choose to not reproduce, the costs of raising a kid have grown during the last decades, the salaries have remained flat during that same amount of time, automation and AI are replacing workers and there have being campaigns all over the world for decades about the advantages of a smaller family, and governments cannot undo any of those tendencies, besides we know what they are really worried about, which is the pension system going bankrupt and in order to avoid that they need more people.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: DrBeer on November 30, 2022, 01:12:18 PM
Slave system is not really "gone" if you ask me. I am gladfully out of the regular 9-5 work life, I live a great life. But, I see my friends and my friends are living a life that is bound by shackles of our economic system.

If you want to quit your job, which many still do, you have to face starvation and bankruptcy if you fail to find a job. That is why it's clear that we shouldn't really be focusing on doing anything crazy like quitting without finding a job but still some do. Others, people who are afraid that they can't find a job, ends up with a trouble such as working at a job they hate and spending 1/3 of their life just so they can survive.

It’s just that you appreciated the reality and made the right decision, congratulations, I’m glad for you from the bottom of my heart. But many live differently. It is in the concept of slave labor, in the civilized world. The problem is that this is how they are brought up from childhood.
For 15 years I have switched to my own earnings (my own business), plus a hired TOP manager with a free work schedule, this is an obligatory condition. I always evaluate work not by how long I did it, how long I was in the office, or how tired I was, but by simple metrics - was the goal achieved? Deadlines/Budgets correspond to the real situation, is the specified quality achieved? ALL ! Everything soatlnoe is not important! Moreover, it works from an employee in the assembly and packaging of some products in boxes, on a conveyor, to the development of corporate systems!

But the majority believes that to work is to be in the office at 9 to 18, lunch according to the schedule. if the boss / owner orders - you have to work .. Because if you get fired - life is over. This is a very terrible ideology that does not give a person freedom and the opportunity to develop and enjoy life!


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: tygeade on November 30, 2022, 02:46:02 PM
Slave system is not really "gone" if you ask me. I am gladfully out of the regular 9-5 work life, I live a great life. But, I see my friends and my friends are living a life that is bound by shackles of our economic system.

If you want to quit your job, which many still do, you have to face starvation and bankruptcy if you fail to find a job. That is why it's clear that we shouldn't really be focusing on doing anything crazy like quitting without finding a job but still some do. Others, people who are afraid that they can't find a job, ends up with a trouble such as working at a job they hate and spending 1/3 of their life just so they can survive.
The amazing beauty of crypto comes alive with this topic. "Slave" idea is still there just like you said, but you and I and many here avoided that slave pit by being in the crypto world. I work in the crypto world, and many people are finding personal success here as well even if not work. That means we can avoid it.

Truth is, too many people around us living in horrible conditions, for cheap labour, and have health problems and also not even make enough for it, whereas we sit on our chair, in front of our PC and make a great income. The baby shortfall will definitely cause trouble eventually, but that doesn't mean that it would really make sense to keep growing neither.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Furious 7 on December 02, 2022, 08:30:35 PM
Some family programs that require 2 children in one family still have some limitations with that. On the other hand, their thinking has shifted because there are indeed some groups who consider children to be a nuisance and limit their space for movement. On the other hand, the child mortality rate is currently still low. influence that makes this even more difficult to control.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Ryu_Ar1 on December 02, 2022, 09:22:14 PM
Some family programs that require 2 children in one family still have some limitations with that. On the other hand, their thinking has shifted because there are indeed some groups who consider children to be a nuisance and limit their space for movement. On the other hand, the child mortality rate is currently still low. influence that makes this even more difficult to control.
I agree with this.
The recommendation of 2 better children is still one of the efforts made by the government, including in my current country, and maybe this has happened to several other countries and this is definitely a bit inconvenient.

On the other hand, for some people raising children is also very difficult to do. I've read several articles in the local media that say that Japanese people find raising children difficult so they avoid having children because they are considered a bit of a burden for movement even for workaholics like Japanese people who are disciplined so that the birth rate is a bit there. .

But on the other hand, now it seems that maybe this assumption has shifted back a little when there are already several countries that will pay anyone who wants to have children, like in a small village in Finland who are willing to pay for families who want to have childre
https:/ /www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20191015-finlands-10000-babies. (http://https:/ /www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20191015-finlands-10000-babies.)


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Fortify on December 02, 2022, 10:54:44 PM
I seem to remember economic charts claiming average worker productivity has more than doubled from the 1950s to present day. If productivity continues to increase, the population and worker size needed to sustain construction, maintenance and development projects should shrink. On the opposite end of the spectrum, reports have claimed more than 50% of jobs are vulnerable to automation. People of today are caught somewhere in the middle of both trends. Not the most comfortable or stable place to be. And so perhaps begins the genesis of some of the future crisis we will face.

The unsaid argument would appear to be one where predominantly european nations attempt to produce more children. To maintain a majority in the face of high immigration. Not knowing that many 3rd world countries have families that produce 10 to 20 children as an ideal standard. If residents of european descent nations could produce that many children, I think they could not afford to feed, school and clothe them. The strategy is flawed on a fundamental level.

It is also possible that nations of european descent have lived without real competition or conflict for too long. It has made us soft and unappreciative of the high standards of living we enjoy. Perhaps being forced to compete and struggle for survival will bring the best ouf of us. And that will not necessarily be a bad thing.

There is definitely some sort of labor shortage going on, but we are actually starting to see a recession now so that might be changing too - the amount of spare jobs on offer could shrink rapidly. It's also worth considering the automation it making jobs redundant all the time and certain professions like supermarket checkout staff might eventually be replaced entirely - but that's a good thing as it helps them take on more productive roles in society.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: Flexystar on December 03, 2022, 12:34:11 PM
Yeah first we divide based on color, then we divided by religion, ethnicity and what not. Now here comes the era of riches and poorer. I think with the time we are going to see rich people moving at one corner of the world, building high security fence around it and passport will be given on the basis of how wealthy you are?

If you cant survive 10 babies at the same time then you can stay away from the get. Have only one kid to keep your generation going on. You can only do that in XYZ location on the earth. If you wan to be on ABC islands then come with good stash of money.  ;D

What's going people, come on we can do better?


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: DrBeer on December 04, 2022, 09:09:45 AM
Yeah first we divide based on color, then we divided by religion, ethnicity and what not. Now here comes the era of riches and poorer. I think with the time we are going to see rich people moving at one corner of the world, building high security fence around it and passport will be given on the basis of how wealthy you are?

If you can't survive 10 babies at the same time then you can stay away from the get. Have only one kid to keep your generation going on. You can only do that in XYZ location on the earth. If you wan to be on ABC islands then come with good stash of money. ;D

What's going people, come on we can do better?


Are you saying that there are no young rich people from Africa?
Or are there no older wealthy Asians? Or are there no rich and successful middle-aged women from Latin America? Or are there no successful Catholics, Christians, followers of Hinduism, Islam, or shamanism?
Skin color, gender and age are the restrictions imposed by the society itself in the country, national traditions, the ruling regime, or the influence of religious fanatics who seized power. There are many more factors, but they are no longer as common or have a high weight, in the "difficulties" that you describe.


Title: Re: The world’s baby shortfall is so bad that the labor shortage will last for years
Post by: franky1 on December 04, 2022, 09:36:52 AM
im not worried about birth rates.

what i see is the governments are..

less population at the bottom means less people feeding money into tax/pension pots. so if there are more edlerly it means more outgoing money then incoming money when it comes to state/government pensions

i do find some government schemes funny
how they will (steal) asylum seeker kids and put them into foster care and give foster parents money to maintain the kids. yea it boosts the population numbers at the bottom. whilst costing the government more per week than paying out a pension
(foster parents get $400 a week per kid, pensioners get $150)

brexit makes it more difficult to emigrate for pensioners wanting to retire in spain(main stereotype)
yet brexit allows tax havens(freeports) for tax duty on goods imports

raise minimum wage but not tax-free allowance for the poor. but offer a tax free windfall for the energy sector already making billions in profit for the rich

..
i say all this drama about concerns of birth rate is not about future labour markets. less workers=more job opportunities for the rest. meaning less unemployment, also les stress on education class sizes and such