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Title: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Hydrogen on December 02, 2022, 01:09:16 PM Quote Somebody or something out there has been buying a lot of gold — 400 tons of it in the third quarter, more than $20 billion worth at today’s price. That’s double the amount that changed hands in the second quarter, and more than quadruple that of the first quarter, all according to the World Gold Council. Central banks bought a quarter of it, but the rest? Nobody knows. Maybe some country or countries. But who? And why? When Ken Kuttner worked at the New York Federal Reserve Bank back in the ’90s, he sometimes went into the basement. “Buried deep in the Manhattan granite was a gold vault, and there were, if I remember correctly, there was 800,000 bars of gold in our basement,” he said. One time, he got to pick one up. It was superheavy. “Behind the main set of bars were a whole set of cages, and each cage belonged to different countries. So if country X wanted to transfer gold to country Y, one of the guys down in the gold vault would open up the cage, take out some bars of gold, wheel it around in a dolly and take it over to the cage for country Y,” he said. Now Kuttner is an economics professor at Williams College, but by the time he left the Fed in 2003, a quarter of those gold bars were gone. There wasn’t some heist, central banks had just sold a lot of it off. “Gold, well it really doesn’t earn any interest, for one thing,” he said. Banks preferred Treasury debt. They earn interest and they’re easier to sell. This move away from gold was the trend for many years. “There are maybe two dozen or fewer central banks that are buying gold, and then there are other central banks that are not buying gold — maybe 160 of them,” said Jeffrey Christian, managing partner of CPM Group. At this point, most countries’ gold reserves, he said, are just residue from an age decades ago when the world was on the gold standard. “Most of these central banks still only have 15% or 10% of their reserves in gold,” Christian said. But since 2008, he said, while most central banks have been selling gold or not bothering with it, a few have been buying it up and then some. There are reasons gold could be useful. Central banks can use it to control their currencies’ value or pay for imports during a crisis. “Another reason is if you have trouble paying off foreign debts, having some reserves could come in handy,” said Joe Gagnon, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute. But reason No. 1 right now, Gagnon said, is avoiding economic sanctions. If a country holds U.S. Treasuries, the U.S. can seize them. See: Russia. Gold in a vault at home is safe. So whoever is buying all that gold — Gagnon thinks it’s Russia, others suspect China — may be doing it to evade the long arm of the U.S. https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/22/somebodys-been-on-a-gold-buying-bender-its-not-clear-who-or-why/ .... Interesting line of thought here: Quote At this point, most countries’ gold reserves, he said, are just residue from an age decades ago when the world was on the gold standard. “Most of these central banks still only have 15% or 10% of their reserves in gold,” Christian said. But since 2008, he said, while most central banks have been selling gold or not bothering with it, a few have been buying it up and then some. There are reasons gold could be useful. Central banks can use it to control their currencies’ value or pay for imports during a crisis. “Another reason is if you have trouble paying off foreign debts, having some reserves could come in handy,” said Joe Gagnon, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute. But reason No. 1 right now, Gagnon said, is avoiding economic sanctions. Russia being perhaps the wealthiest and most powerful nation currently under economic sanctions. Is it possible russia is buying up global reserves of gold in an effort to circumvent global sanctions? Another nation which has scaled up its gold mining operations in recent times is china. There have been recent headlines claiming the united states is imposing trade sanctions on chinese exports. Perhaps there could be some connection there. Aside from those obvious candidates, I was thinking that perhaps central banks could be purchasing gold. There have been media sources which claimed it could be a current trend. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: pooya87 on December 02, 2022, 01:40:10 PM Things are definitely getting interesting regarding "countries" buying up gold. As I said a while ago (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5418480.0) there are multiple countries that have been increasing the amount of gold they have (Russia, China, India and Iran are a few of them). Rulers of other countries with half a brain have been joining this trend too but they are trying their best to keep it under wraps.
Part of it is because fiat currencies (namely US dollar) are getting weaker and part of it is because of the fear of a worsening global conflict in which case gold could be a good option to have. Another reason is that many countries have been moving to a new parallel economy (with the new World Order) where they no longer use USD as international trade currency. There are a couple of replacements and gold (and surprisingly bitcoin) are among the options.. This is not new either. It has been going on for a couple of years. For example the 5 oil tankers we sent to Venezuela in 2020 while Trump was shitting his pants over their content were sold mainly for gold. AFAIK China has also been accumulating gold for a couple of years. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Dickiy on December 02, 2022, 02:05:55 PM The fact is that gold has great power both in terms of trust and values that have been passed down for a long time. And coupled with the modern fad now there is Bitcoin which has gained the trust of the public without the need to force them to sign debt contracts with banks.
Look at the other side, the dollar is currently weakening, losing value and public trust due to banking manipulation which is now starting to be questioned. Society is now starting to be critical of something, including the essence of paper money itself. As a result, gold has demonstrated throughout civilization that its value was in the public trust even before paper money was invented. This could also be a compelling reason why Russia dared to openly wage an economic war with the West. The Middle East, China, and countries that have now recognized the weakness of fiat have moved a step further, and broken away from the Western way of thinking about paper money. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: so98nn on December 02, 2022, 02:13:03 PM How is it possible that we are not able to trace the source who is buying? Kinda started feeling gold is more integral as compared to bitcoin if we are not able to track down heavy metal like that?
Also Russia can be in picture because they already have oil as precious asset with them and if they want overpower others then what could be best way than buying another precious asset like Gold and that too when global recession is piling up day by day. Russia might have thought this through. What world needs most right now is good financial reserves in the national treasury to survive the upcoming apocalypse. But without any strong proof it would be just conspiracy. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: OROBTC on December 02, 2022, 07:35:46 PM ...
Gold, IMO, is about to become more interesting and catch more headlines in 2023. Yes, it appears that both Russia and China are buying fairly large quantities of gold, but they make their purchases obscure (to pay lower prices perhaps) only announcing those purchases months or years later. Other central banks have been buying gold (net purchasing) in the last year or two. The below link has occasional articles that follow large-scale actions (by central banks, etc.) in the gold markets: https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/ (https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/) Even people who try to follow the gold markets closely have a hard time figuring out what's going on. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DaveF on December 02, 2022, 08:16:45 PM Meh, gold it still more then 10% off it's ATH. And is probably not going to see that level again for a while.
As for the who or why there is a lot of speculation that a lot of larger chip and board manufacturers had let supply levels drop when prices were higher and are now buying in anticipation of PC / tech buying to continue. To put in another way. Regular PC DDR4 memory has about 4 grams of gold per kilo of RAM, that is about 65 sticks of RAM. Some of the mid-range memory manufacturers make about 40,000 sticks of RAM per day per factory. 40000 / 65 = ~ 615 kilos of ram. 615 * 4 = 2400 grams or 2.4 kg of gold used per day in just one mid rage memory maker. Does not seem like a lot till you factor it out across every component maker for every piece of electronics out there. The supply chain issues scared a lot of the electronics foundries and manufacturers. For most businesses have a few tons of gold sitting there waiting to be used is insane. For a billion dollar manufacturing plant to sit idle it's a small investment to have a few month supply sitting there. Which could be why nobody can figure out who bought it. Because everyone bought a little. -Dave Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: r00thog on December 02, 2022, 09:25:04 PM Quote Somebody or something out there has been buying a lot of gold — 400 tons of it in the third quarter, more than $20 billion worth at today’s price. That’s double the amount that changed hands in the second quarter, and more than quadruple that of the first quarter, all according to the World Gold Council. Central banks bought a quarter of it, but the rest? Nobody knows. Maybe some country or countries. But who? And why? When Ken Kuttner worked at the New York Federal Reserve Bank back in the ’90s, he sometimes went into the basement. “Buried deep in the Manhattan granite was a gold vault, and there were, if I remember correctly, there was 800,000 bars of gold in our basement,” he said. One time, he got to pick one up. It was superheavy. “Behind the main set of bars were a whole set of cages, and each cage belonged to different countries. So if country X wanted to transfer gold to country Y, one of the guys down in the gold vault would open up the cage, take out some bars of gold, wheel it around in a dolly and take it over to the cage for country Y,” he said. Now Kuttner is an economics professor at Williams College, but by the time he left the Fed in 2003, a quarter of those gold bars were gone. There wasn’t some heist, central banks had just sold a lot of it off. “Gold, well it really doesn’t earn any interest, for one thing,” he said. Banks preferred Treasury debt. They earn interest and they’re easier to sell. This move away from gold was the trend for many years. “There are maybe two dozen or fewer central banks that are buying gold, and then there are other central banks that are not buying gold — maybe 160 of them,” said Jeffrey Christian, managing partner of CPM Group. At this point, most countries’ gold reserves, he said, are just residue from an age decades ago when the world was on the gold standard. “Most of these central banks still only have 15% or 10% of their reserves in gold,” Christian said. But since 2008, he said, while most central banks have been selling gold or not bothering with it, a few have been buying it up and then some. There are reasons gold could be useful. Central banks can use it to control their currencies’ value or pay for imports during a crisis. “Another reason is if you have trouble paying off foreign debts, having some reserves could come in handy,” said Joe Gagnon, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute. But reason No. 1 right now, Gagnon said, is avoiding economic sanctions. If a country holds U.S. Treasuries, the U.S. can seize them. See: Russia. Gold in a vault at home is safe. So whoever is buying all that gold — Gagnon thinks it’s Russia, others suspect China — may be doing it to evade the long arm of the U.S. https://www.marketplace.org/2022/11/22/somebodys-been-on-a-gold-buying-bender-its-not-clear-who-or-why/ .... Interesting line of thought here: Quote At this point, most countries’ gold reserves, he said, are just residue from an age decades ago when the world was on the gold standard. “Most of these central banks still only have 15% or 10% of their reserves in gold,” Christian said. But since 2008, he said, while most central banks have been selling gold or not bothering with it, a few have been buying it up and then some. There are reasons gold could be useful. Central banks can use it to control their currencies’ value or pay for imports during a crisis. “Another reason is if you have trouble paying off foreign debts, having some reserves could come in handy,” said Joe Gagnon, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute. But reason No. 1 right now, Gagnon said, is avoiding economic sanctions. Russia being perhaps the wealthiest and most powerful nation currently under economic sanctions. Is it possible russia is buying up global reserves of gold in an effort to circumvent global sanctions? Another nation which has scaled up its gold mining operations in recent times is china. There have been recent headlines claiming the united states is imposing trade sanctions on chinese exports. Perhaps there could be some connection there. Aside from those obvious candidates, I was thinking that perhaps central banks could be purchasing gold. There have been media sources which claimed it could be a current trend. Russia doesn't need to buy up gold, its far bigger than this, Russia/China is remaking the world order as they see fit. However, for Russia to succeed in remaking the world, they don't need to hold a ton of gold. Just look at their balance sheet, they have the absolute best balance sheet in the world of any country even without the gold. Very little debt, both public & household. Plus they are the commodity super power. To help the world move away from this fiat Western corrupt system, they wont be holding too much gold at any one time, and really its more of a tool to help peacefully de-lever the world off the corrupt Western financial system. I see the future system as being China as the anchor (by backstopping the yuan, which helps them maneuver their country away from being purely export driven manufacturing hub, which is Xi's intended goal) and Russia as the world's new creditor like the US was post-WW2, since they control the marginal price now of oil moving forward. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: darkangel11 on December 02, 2022, 10:34:01 PM Since there was additional 400 t. bought this year, some of it was probably manufacturers buying in advance and I'd expect some of it went to Turkey. It has huge problems with its fiat currency and reported that it bought 31 t. this year. I'm sure that Russia bought some too but you can't expect honesty and transparency from them.
Russia doesn't need to buy up gold, its far bigger than this, Russia/China is remaking the world order as they see fit. Sure :D Russia is remaking Ukraine by turning it from a prosperous country into a scrap yard full of destroyed machinery and the only thing it's succeeding in is digging trenches and mass graves. A country that lost a third of its military is not going to be in good shape politically, financially or economically. Meh, gold it still more then 10% off it's ATH. And is probably not going to see that level again for a while. As for the who or why there is a lot of speculation that a lot of larger chip and board manufacturers had let supply levels drop when prices were higher and are now buying in anticipation of PC / tech buying to continue. To put in another way. Regular PC DDR4 memory has about 4 grams of gold per kilo of RAM, that is about 65 sticks of RAM. Some of the mid-range memory manufacturers make about 40,000 sticks of RAM per day per factory. 40000 / 65 = ~ 615 kilos of ram. 615 * 4 = 2400 grams or 2.4 kg of gold used per day in just one mid rage memory maker. Does not seem like a lot till you factor it out across every component maker for every piece of electronics out there. The supply chain issues scared a lot of the electronics foundries and manufacturers. For most businesses have a few tons of gold sitting there waiting to be used is insane. For a billion dollar manufacturing plant to sit idle it's a small investment to have a few month supply sitting there. Which could be why nobody can figure out who bought it. Because everyone bought a little. -Dave You have a point here. RAM is not even the best source of gold as motherboards have even more of it but the connectors are spread on a larger area so if you want something compact and uniform, memory sticks and CPUs are the best. A lot of gold also goes into audio cable connectors (jacks, RCA) and high end HDMI. It's used in TV sets, home cinema, mobile phones and more. "Of the typical 3,000 metric tonnes of newly mined gold ore per year, some 300 tonnes of gold goes into producing high-end electronic devices (some may too come from another 1,000 tonnes annually recycled gold)." https://sdbullion.com/blog/how-much-gold-is-in-a-computer-desktop-laptop Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: adaseb on December 03, 2022, 04:49:48 AM Isn’t it going up because it’s mostly correlated lately with the stock market?
Many assumed that as the stocks went down, people would move into gold and it wasn’t the case. Then when bond yields peaked stocks and gold have started to reverse hence both are hitting daily highs for the past couple of months. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Lien Uiryen on December 03, 2022, 09:00:11 AM The reason why countries buy gold may be because: Gold is hard currency. It is a currency recognized by countries all over the world.
Gold has long served as a credit hedge against the U.S. dollar in the global monetary system. When the credit of the U.S. dollar is declining, global central banks need to allocate more gold to make preparations for possible major changes to ensure the country's financial and economic security and social stability. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: franky1 on December 03, 2022, 09:03:17 AM the why is simple
the way i view gold is (using 2021 amounts as an example) golds base value was $900*, golds market price was $1600, due to fuel and labour costs increase of the 2022 world financial crises that $900 base value rate has increased, meaning it can also bump up the market rate to over $2k so simply buy now sell later for more money *(value is cheapest acquisition cost on planet via any means, mining private OTC or public exchange) Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: hugeblack on December 03, 2022, 09:13:48 AM In addition, there are many countries that have not yet exploited their mineral resources. For example, Saudi Arabia has not mined gold despite its presence in its regions as well as Pakistan.
Gold gained its value when the Federal Reserve began raising interest rates without taking into account the damage to other countries, and banks began trying to raise interest rates accordingly, despite the harshness of these financial policies. Therefore, many countries will be open to buying gold. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: kryptqnick on December 03, 2022, 09:36:14 AM My first guess when I started reading the op was that it's Russia, so it's good that this option is being discussed. Russia has foreign debt payment issues due to sanctions, it has enough finances to afford tons of gold, and they did something very similar to returning to the gold standard to stabilize their fiat back in spring. So these is an obvious need for gold, and also obvious reasons to buy it secretly, to avoid sanctions.
I must say I'm not pleased with how little the sanctions seem to have impacted Russia, allowing it to comfortably continue spending hundreds of millions of dollars per day of the war for a very long time, and they can probably do it for another year if not more. If they're buying lots of gold, this can help them stabilize even further. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 03, 2022, 10:53:20 AM 1. Protracted crisis (Covid, then the terrorist war unleashed by Russia against Ukraine, and economic terror against the EU)
2. Some countries that have become pariahs and cannot receive currency, for their degrading economy, but rather for their kleptomaniac leaders, need to somehow provide their "well-fed living". Definitely buys gold Russia. Perhaps China is also buying - it has other problems, but gold in this case is also an option for some mitigation of problems 3. 20 billion - on the scale of the global economy - "a drop in the ocean" Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: cabron on December 03, 2022, 01:26:43 PM China according to some reports had been buying Gold for decades since they are preparing for the day the gold standard is back which is what they plan for BRICS money. The first they are doing right now is moving away from USD. And the US also are going to return to the Gold standard, there is a new bill Gold Standard Restoration Act but Pal (FED) strongly opposed the bill. The US government blocked this bill and CFTC is close to begging for crypto for them to regulate, particularly the stablecoin. They are most likely gearing up for crypto. It's hard for US to go back to Gold Standard because most of the countries that have gold reserves in the vault mentioned in the article were never returned to them despite their request. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 03, 2022, 02:01:41 PM China according to some reports had been buying Gold for decades since they are preparing for the day the gold standard is back which is what they plan for BRICS money. The first they are doing right now is moving away from USD. And the US also are going to return to the Gold standard, there is a new bill Gold Standard Restoration Act but Pal (FED) strongly opposed the bill. The US government blocked this bill and CFTC is close to begging for crypto for them to regulate, particularly the stablecoin. They are most likely gearing up for crypto. It's hard for US to go back to Gold Standard because most of the countries that have gold reserves in the vault mentioned in the article were never returned to them despite their request. The gold standard is also, in a sense, a fiction. No country can guarantee that its claims of gold holdings in vaults are consistent with the money supply. No country will allow an independent audit of gold reserves. No country will give a complete picture of purchases, production and real volumes of real gold in vaults. A more or less objective solution is the minting of gold coins, which have a real value and are backed by their weight in gold. But these are decisions from the Middle Ages. Well, plus gold - it cannot be called a rare or difficult metal to mine. Well, and most importantly, its distribution is such that most countries where there are no deposits of gold sufficient to provide a "collateral" for fiat money will not accept such a standard. It is easier for them to ensure the weight of their currencies with a strong economy, high technology, etc. which has a REAL value and is difficult to repeat Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DaveF on December 03, 2022, 03:11:58 PM You have a point here. RAM is not even the best source of gold as motherboards have even more of it but the connectors are spread on a larger area so if you want something compact and uniform, memory sticks and CPUs are the best. A lot of gold also goes into audio cable connectors (jacks, RCA) and high end HDMI. It's used in TV sets, home cinema, mobile phones and more. "Of the typical 3,000 metric tonnes of newly mined gold ore per year, some 300 tonnes of gold goes into producing high-end electronic devices (some may too come from another 1,000 tonnes annually recycled gold)." https://sdbullion.com/blog/how-much-gold-is-in-a-computer-desktop-laptop Although it's a bit distorted due to the other metals in them. You can at an e-waste recycling facility get about $20 / lb for ram but MOST of that value is gold. https://cashforcomputerscrap.com/current-pricing So depending on some things it's between 30 to 35 sticks of RAM It's $4.70 / lb for add in cards after you remove the heatsinks and such. Just think about the number of those type items being produced every minute of every day and the fact that you are not getting the gold value you are getting a lot less since these recycling places still have to do all the processing and still make a profit and so on. Seeing 400 tons is not that big a deal anymore since it's been discussed in a few places that they have let their reserves drop since prices were so high and are now stocking up. Separate note, I have been in IT for decades and 'the next big thing' that will reduce the amount of gold needed in electronics to almost zero has been coming soon since I started back in the 1980s. Still waiting..... -Dave Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: el kaka22 on December 04, 2022, 06:58:40 PM Unfortunately there is a big reason why nations don't care about gold as much as they used to, because they just print money as they want and not care about gold standard anymore, you can print 10 trillion dollars worth today, the value would drop significantly and cause trouble but you can, and sometimes they do. Like nearly half of all the dollars in the world printed in the last 10-15 years.
Imagine this, for 250 years USA printed money, and that equals to last 10-15 years, how scary that is? And that is why gold is not cared about nations and governments anymore. So business' and people are buying more of it to protect themselves against anything that may happen. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: pooya87 on December 05, 2022, 10:29:07 AM And the US also are going to return to the Gold standard, there is a new bill Gold Standard Restoration Act but Pal (FED) strongly opposed the bill. Sometimes someone takes a simple step that puts a whole nation in a path with no return. At this point because of decisions made decades ago, US can never go to any standard let alone the gold standard because they need to print money nonstop without any kind of restriction like having to have that money backed by anything. If they do anything, it would be a revolution and in such revolution the whole US economy has to crumble down first specially because of the $31.4 trillion national debt.The US government blocked this bill and CFTC is close to begging for crypto for them to regulate, particularly the stablecoin. They are most likely gearing up for crypto. It's hard for US to go back to Gold Standard because most of the countries that have gold reserves in the vault mentioned in the article were never returned to them despite their request. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Smartprofit on December 06, 2022, 12:43:37 PM My first guess when I started reading the op was that it's Russia, so it's good that this option is being discussed. Russia has foreign debt payment issues due to sanctions, it has enough finances to afford tons of gold, and they did something very similar to returning to the gold standard to stabilize their fiat back in spring. So these is an obvious need for gold, and also obvious reasons to buy it secretly, to avoid sanctions. I must say I'm not pleased with how little the sanctions seem to have impacted Russia, allowing it to comfortably continue spending hundreds of millions of dollars per day of the war for a very long time, and they can probably do it for another year if not more. If they're buying lots of gold, this can help them stabilize even further. In my opinion, gold is a rather useless tool for circumventing sanctions. Gold bars are all numbered and registered, and it is very easy to limit their turnover. At the same time, gold is a very inconvenient means of payment. With gold, there are a lot of questions about its storage, transportation and authentication. Gold in the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank is good, but adequacy, reliability and trust are much more valuable in the financial sector. Yes, there is a lot of gold in Russia, but it is not clear what to do with it. Carry across the country to the border with China to exchange for Poco, Redmi and Xiaomi smartphones? Now Russia has canceled VAT on the sale of gold bars and is trying to sell gold to the population. But the population of Russia does not really understand what to do with these shiny yellow metal cubes. In real life, they are absolutely useless! Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: pooya87 on December 06, 2022, 01:28:26 PM In my opinion, gold is a rather useless tool for circumventing sanctions. Gold is not used to circumvent sanctions, it is used to replace US dollar as the global currency. There are other alternatives including bitcoin that countries are using, the best example of replacements is Europeans buying energy from Russia using Ruble as the replacement for USD not to circumvent sanctions.Quote Gold bars are all numbered and registered, and it is very easy to limit their turnover. At the same time, gold is a very inconvenient means of payment. With gold, there are a lot of questions about its storage, transportation and authentication. Gold in the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank is good, but adequacy, reliability and trust are much more valuable in the financial sector. We aren't talking about two dudes in trench coats in a dark alley doing a shady trade lol. We are talking about countries with their government and central banks making an official trade. The authenticity, purity, etc. of the gold bars is ensured by that country and is tested by the other country.The transportation of it is also pretty simple, you just send a plane and fill it with gold bars and bring it back home ;) Quote Carry across the country to the border with China to exchange for Poco, Redmi and Xiaomi smartphones? Do you honestly think silly smartphones are the only thing that literary the biggest economy in the world has to offer?!!Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Smartprofit on December 06, 2022, 02:51:20 PM In my opinion, gold is a rather useless tool for circumventing sanctions. Gold is not used to circumvent sanctions, it is used to replace US dollar as the global currency. There are other alternatives including bitcoin that countries are using, the best example of replacements is Europeans buying energy from Russia using Ruble as the replacement for USD not to circumvent sanctions.Quote Gold bars are all numbered and registered, and it is very easy to limit their turnover. At the same time, gold is a very inconvenient means of payment. With gold, there are a lot of questions about its storage, transportation and authentication. Gold in the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank is good, but adequacy, reliability and trust are much more valuable in the financial sector. We aren't talking about two dudes in trench coats in a dark alley doing a shady trade lol. We are talking about countries with their government and central banks making an official trade. The authenticity, purity, etc. of the gold bars is ensured by that country and is tested by the other country.The transportation of it is also pretty simple, you just send a plane and fill it with gold bars and bring it back home ;) Quote Carry across the country to the border with China to exchange for Poco, Redmi and Xiaomi smartphones? Do you honestly think silly smartphones are the only thing that literary the biggest economy in the world has to offer?!!As far as I know, until recently, China did not own very many modern technologies in the field of microelectronics. Now the Chinese company Huawei is trying to make modern processors on its own. Previously, technologies for the production of modern microelectronics were concentrated in the USA, Taiwan and Holland (equipment for photolithography). But even if China owns the most modern technologies, it is not a fact that it will want to sell them for Russia's gold bars. Good relations with all neighboring countries and the ability to negotiate, in my opinion, is more important than large reserves of gold. For example, the European Union and the United States have banned the import of many goods into Russia. Including strategically important Finnish 3D printers. And no gold reserves allow obtaining these technologies, which are very important for the technological development of the country. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 06, 2022, 05:46:23 PM China according to some reports had been buying Gold for decades since they are preparing for the day the gold standard is back which is what they plan for BRICS money. The first they are doing right now is moving away from USD. Preparing for a return to the "gold standard" is logical and not risky, provided that you are sure that this return will really happen :) But there is a problem here - the "gold standard" turned out to be unprofitable for many economically strong countries. "The gold standard! - in fact, the standard of the Middle Ages, when gold was really a measure of wealth. Now the world has changed, it has changed a lot. And tying to gold is actually not possible. In fact - because for a real return, you need the consent and support of the world's leading economies and the most influential countries. Desires of one China - VERY little! China is a huge economy, but ... it depends on the West, primarily on the US market. That is why today's rhetoric of China is "a bipolar world, where the 2 poles are the USA and China." There is no Russia there (the technologically remaining raw material appendage of the West and China, with a degrading economy and society), there is no India or Iran, there is the USA and China! All the rest are either junior partners, or "servants" or silent executors of the will of these poles and their rudimentary appendages. Partnerarms include developed countries with acceptable economies - the EU, India and other similar countries. But these "junior partners" also do not need the gold standard and are not convenient. A simple question - try logically, with arguments, to bring the convenience, benefits and advantages of the "gold standard"? Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: pooya87 on December 07, 2022, 08:08:46 AM As far as I know, until recently, China did not own very many modern technologies in the field of microelectronics. You are focusing on one thing (technology) in a massive market with tens of thousands of different goods that are being traded between countries. For example I heard in early days of the Russian invasion that Europe has stopped exporting simple things like dairy products and detergents to Russia! That market could easily be replaced with China (and others) and has nothing to do with advanced technologies.Now the Chinese company Huawei is trying to make modern processors on its own. Previously, technologies for the production of modern microelectronics were concentrated in the USA, Taiwan and Holland (equipment for photolithography). Quote For example, the European Union and the United States have banned the import of many goods into Russia. Including strategically important Finnish 3D printers. And no gold reserves allow obtaining these technologies, which are very important for the technological development of the country. There are a couple of problems with that logic. First of all the technology didn't come from outer space, same people who invented those can reinvent them elsewhere. Secondly almost everything I saw the West banned for exports to Russia can be acquired from elsewhere namely countries that don't give a crap about those sanctions. I'm not very familiar with 3D printer tech but I know for a fact that there are at least a dozen Iranian companies that are manufacturing advanced 3D printers that could easily replace the European counterparts just like how the Iranian made gas turbines can (and probably did already) replace the German Siemens ones. Gold is very useful in trades like this. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Smartprofit on December 07, 2022, 03:29:02 PM As far as I know, until recently, China did not own very many modern technologies in the field of microelectronics. You are focusing on one thing (technology) in a massive market with tens of thousands of different goods that are being traded between countries. For example I heard in early days of the Russian invasion that Europe has stopped exporting simple things like dairy products and detergents to Russia! That market could easily be replaced with China (and others) and has nothing to do with advanced technologies.Now the Chinese company Huawei is trying to make modern processors on its own. Previously, technologies for the production of modern microelectronics were concentrated in the USA, Taiwan and Holland (equipment for photolithography). Quote For example, the European Union and the United States have banned the import of many goods into Russia. Including strategically important Finnish 3D printers. And no gold reserves allow obtaining these technologies, which are very important for the technological development of the country. There are a couple of problems with that logic. First of all the technology didn't come from outer space, same people who invented those can reinvent them elsewhere. Secondly almost everything I saw the West banned for exports to Russia can be acquired from elsewhere namely countries that don't give a crap about those sanctions. I'm not very familiar with 3D printer tech but I know for a fact that there are at least a dozen Iranian companies that are manufacturing advanced 3D printers that could easily replace the European counterparts just like how the Iranian made gas turbines can (and probably did already) replace the German Siemens ones. Gold is very useful in trades like this. In my opinion, Russia is quite capable of independently producing dairy products and detergents. Another thing, for example, imported bulls - producers or special feed for livestock. That is, in any case, the cost of producing high-quality dairy products under Western sanctions will be higher than before. As far as technology is concerned, one might wonder why, until 2022, Russian companies did not buy Chinese and Iranian goods, but bought goods from the US and the EU? Were they acting against themselves? The correct answer is that Chinese and Iranian products are worse in quality and poorer in assortment, in addition, in some cases, Western materials and components are used in their production, which could potentially lead to the introduction of secondary sanctions against exporting countries. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 08, 2022, 07:34:24 AM In my opinion, Russia is quite capable of independently producing dairy products and detergents. Another thing, for example, imported bulls - producers or special feed for livestock. That is, in any case, the cost of producing high-quality dairy products under Western sanctions will be higher than before. As far as technology is concerned, one might wonder why, until 2022, Russian companies did not buy Chinese and Iranian goods, but bought goods from the US and the EU? Were they acting against themselves? The correct answer is that Chinese and Iranian products are worse in quality and poorer in assortment, in addition, in some cases, Western materials and components are used in their production, which could potentially lead to the introduction of secondary sanctions against exporting countries. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D NO - CANNOT!!! Believe it or not - but they can't!!! It's hard to imagine, after so many systemic, total fakes about Russian greatness, the Russian economy, the Russian army, and other nonsense spread around the world by Russian propaganda, but it's a fact! Even OFFICIALLY, in 2020, selective testing of dairy products was carried out. The result - 80% is not a DAIRY product! An acquaintance, lives in the Novosibirsk region, showed how Chinese concentrate, absolutely artificial, is purchased, diluted with TAP WATER, and "milk" is obtained. With smell, taste, and even fat .. True, palm oil instead of natural fats, but for the most part of the population, Russians still do not know what normal dairy products are ... Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: pooya87 on December 08, 2022, 12:57:31 PM In my opinion, Russia is quite capable of independently producing dairy products and detergents. True but sometimes it is about capacity, after all Russian population is more than 146 million. They may need to import part of their needs from elsewhere despite domestic production.As far as technology is concerned, one might wonder why, until 2022, Russian companies did not buy Chinese and Iranian goods, but bought goods from the US and the EU? Were they acting against themselves? It is always about politics. For example part of the reason why Russia bought anything from EU or sold them anything was to create that interdependence in order to ensure security or at least have a pressure point as we can see how they are using energy exports to EU as a weapon in the past 9 months. Don't forget that once upon a time some in Russia wanted to be part of NATO.As for Iran there is also the additional reason which is Iran being under the most number of sanctions in history so they were scared of being sanctioned for buying such technologies from Iran but now that Russia is also under sanctions that reason is not longer applicable :) The correct answer is that Chinese and Iranian products are worse in quality and poorer in assortment, in addition, in some cases, Western materials and components are used in their production, which could potentially lead to the introduction of secondary sanctions against exporting countries. It has to be analyzed on a case by case basis, the industry is too vast for you to judge all of it like this.For example the thing you said about foreign components is true in some cases in Iran's home appliance industry (eg. fridges) but not about the example I used above regarding gas turbines. They are actually 100% domestically manufactured inside Iran with all Iranian made technologies and materials and the quality is actually a lot better than the German ones considering that they have a longer lifespan and can work under harsher conditions. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Smartprofit on December 09, 2022, 08:38:24 AM I still view gold not as a means of payment, but as an integral element of central banks' gold and foreign exchange reserves.
At the same time, the purpose of creating gold and foreign exchange reserves of central banks is to ensure confidence in the local state financial system (in particular, in the national state currency). However, the credibility of the local government currency is determined not only by the size of the reserves. The scale of the use of the national currency in international settlements is very important. And this requires an adequate foreign policy and adequate management decisions. Without this, no amount of accumulated gold has any value. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 11, 2022, 09:51:58 AM I still view gold not as a means of payment, but as an integral element of central banks' gold and foreign exchange reserves. At the same time, the purpose of creating gold and foreign exchange reserves of central banks is to ensure confidence in the local state financial system (in particular, in the national state currency). However, the credibility of the local government currency is determined not only by the size of the reserves. The scale of the use of the national currency in international settlements is very important. And this requires an adequate foreign policy and adequate management decisions. Without this, no amount of accumulated gold has any value. Here I am, for example, the president of the country "Upper Bottoms". I say - we have 100500700 tons of gold in our gold and foreign exchange reserves! We bought a part (actually we bought 10-100-1000 kg), we got everything else. We are richer than the USA! Our currency is the most currency in the world! Our stability is the most stable! I will give you one of our coins, you will give me 10,000 tons of food. The question is - how to check, and unambiguously be sure that this is exactly the case? :) And a broader question - tell me - can you give an example when, during the time of the gold standard, the gold and foreign exchange reserves of countries were checked by an independent audit and got a real picture of gold reserves? Or "gentlemen take their word for it"? :) Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: MarjorieZimmermanGinger on December 11, 2022, 01:38:33 PM Russia being perhaps the wealthiest and most powerful nation currently under economic sanctions. Is it possible russia is buying up global reserves of gold in an effort to circumvent global sanctions? This country always surprises the world, initially they have also been involved in buying Bitcoin and Russia has also committed and considered to transact in bitcoin with friendly neighbors, and possibly buy gold reserves in an effort to maintain the value of their currency while they are getting sanctions from global.Quote Another nation which has scaled up its gold mining operations in recent times is china. There have been recent headlines claiming the united states is imposing trade sanctions on chinese exports. Perhaps there could be some connection there. It seems that a country with a very strong economic power sees the potential of gold in an effort to maintain the value of its currency, the largest gold reserves are currently in superpower countries, so it is necessary to neutralize these reserves. But further we cannot assume, because there is no accurate data source that we can compare, but actually I am looking towards keeping the value of the currency for the survival power of a particular country.Quote Aside from those obvious candidates, I was thinking that perhaps central banks could be purchasing gold. There have been media sources which claimed it could be a current trend. Many Central Banks have purchased massive gold reserves to date, one of the most numerous being Turkey, although they still lag behind the United States in the amount of current gold reserve holdings.Thus the assumptions that we convey have a correlation with maintaining currency values, even though their direct target is not in fiat currency. Gold is something that is most targeted in the collection of mass reserves, so that the country that is able to collect the most will be the strongest economically, what I know is that gold is something that can maintain value, even if it is slow in providing benefits, my assumptions lead to this concept. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Lubang Bawah on December 13, 2022, 06:00:10 AM Economic threats in the future can occur in any country, Russia or China sees the trend in the future is an increasingly fierce economic competition so that it makes them prepared by storing or multiplying products that will never die, oil is certainly a very valuable asset but requires a place that is Very large to store and of course require special care, it is natural that they store gold that is easier to care does not require a special place and so on.
Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 14, 2022, 03:22:35 PM True but sometimes it is about capacity, after all Russian population is more than 146 million. They may need to import part of their needs from elsewhere despite domestic production. 1. Why are you misleading people? Where does Russia have 146 million people from? :))) Can you name when the last REAL population census was, and not virtual? Or maybe let's calculate the budget data for 2019-2021 in Russia? (No more for 2022 - they were classified - things are going so well :)). According to these data (on taxes, and pensions, social payments for the birth of children, on mortality, migration and other indicators that are well correlated with the population), if you calculate, you will come to an amazing conclusion - there are no more than 90-100 million people in Russia! 2. Regarding gold as a replacement for the dollar. And tell us how the world economy will look like, which will have gold instead of the dollar? Mutual settlements, international settlements, an objective assessment of the underlying gold reserves? 3. And again you are deliberately lying :) No country buys gas for rubles. None! Is the price of gas set in rubles? NO ! IN DOLLAR or EURO! Payment is made in dollars and euros, which then, after being credited to the correspondent accounts of a Russian bank, go to the Russian exchange, where this currency is sold and bought ... ruble :) try to prove a different payment scheme, and I will immediately poke your nose into the official clarification of russia itself :) Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: Dickiy on December 14, 2022, 05:09:54 PM Russia being perhaps the wealthiest and most powerful nation currently under economic sanctions. Is it possible russia is buying up global reserves of gold in an effort to circumvent global sanctions? I think it is true that it can be used as a tool to fight sanctions, but this is also not only about Russia but this is about the development of the countries that are members of the BRICS, in my opinion, this can happen because they want to issue a new currency to remove the hegemony of western countries, in my opinion, so Russia will do the same, as the dollar was initially pegged to gold reserves, to make the BRICS currency valuable in world eyes this is only a possibility but it could happen and this seems relevant to the west tensions with Russia and/or the current global economic war this.Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 15, 2022, 02:48:17 PM There are a couple of problems with that logic. First of all the technology didn't come from outer space, same people who invented those can reinvent them elsewhere. Secondly almost everything I saw the West banned for exports to Russia can be acquired from elsewhere namely countries that don't give a crap about those sanctions. I'm not very familiar with 3D printer tech but I know for a fact that there are at least a dozen Iranian companies that are manufacturing advanced 3D printers that could easily replace the European counterparts just like how the Iranian made gas turbines can (and probably did already) replace the German Siemens ones. Gold is very useful in trades like this. You do not quite understand how the high-tech market works, hence such misconceptions. 1. Not a single normal Western engineer will go to work in Russia. This is at least not logical, and why? Help terrorists destroy the civilized world? No, there will probably be units, but Russia itself will destroy them, as has happened many times in its history. Read about Sergei Korolev for example. The man who created the Soviet space. 2. Iran does not produce 3D printers. Iranian companies using Western technologies and Western component base produce MODIFICATIONS of 3D printers. But they themselves did not invent a single technologically new 3D printer. No print technology, no media, no print head technology.. Nothing! Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: philipma1957 on December 15, 2022, 02:59:41 PM My first guess when I started reading the op was that it's Russia, so it's good that this option is being discussed. Russia has foreign debt payment issues due to sanctions, it has enough finances to afford tons of gold, and they did something very similar to returning to the gold standard to stabilize their fiat back in spring. So these is an obvious need for gold, and also obvious reasons to buy it secretly, to avoid sanctions. I must say I'm not pleased with how little the sanctions seem to have impacted Russia, allowing it to comfortably continue spending hundreds of millions of dollars per day of the war for a very long time, and they can probably do it for another year if not more. If they're buying lots of gold, this can help them stabilize even further. In my opinion, gold is a rather useless tool for circumventing sanctions. Gold bars are all numbered and registered, and it is very easy to limit their turnover. At the same time, gold is a very inconvenient means of payment. With gold, there are a lot of questions about its storage, transportation and authentication. Gold in the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank is good, but adequacy, reliability and trust are much more valuable in the financial sector. Yes, there is a lot of gold in Russia, but it is not clear what to do with it. Carry across the country to the border with China to exchange for Poco, Redmi and Xiaomi smartphones? Now Russia has canceled VAT on the sale of gold bars and is trying to sell gold to the population. But the population of Russia does not really understand what to do with these shiny yellow metal cubes. In real life, they are absolutely useless! I leave Russia with a 20 kilo bar of gold about 1.4 million. No way I can get it out of the country. I leave Russia with 80 btc same 1.4 million. No way does anyone know I have the BTC so easy peasy to flee Russia and have wealth. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: DrBeer on December 17, 2022, 12:07:02 PM In my opinion, gold is a rather useless tool for circumventing sanctions. Gold bars are all numbered and registered, and it is very easy to limit their turnover. At the same time, gold is a very inconvenient means of payment. With gold, there are a lot of questions about its storage, transportation and authentication. Gold in the gold and foreign exchange reserves of the Central Bank is good, but adequacy, reliability and trust are much more valuable in the financial sector. Yes, there is a lot of gold in Russia, but it is not clear what to do with it. Carry across the country to the border with China to exchange for Poco, Redmi and Xiaomi smartphones? Now Russia has canceled VAT on the sale of gold bars and is trying to sell gold to the population. But the population of Russia does not really understand what to do with these shiny yellow metal cubes. In real life, they are absolutely useless! You can't imagine how close you are to the truth :) Given that China is manipulating its raw material appendage in the form of Russia as it wants, Russia will soon give up its gold reserves to them. No, he will not just give it away, but will exchange it for another batch of cheaper yuan, budget phones and nails. Because in Russia they don’t even produce nails themselves ;D Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: pooya87 on December 17, 2022, 06:23:00 PM 1. Why are you misleading people? Where does Russia have 146 million people from? You should learn to read the whole post not one word of it. Whatever the real number is won't change anything about the point I was making but here is the reference I used: https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/russia-population/Quote 3. And again you are deliberately lying :) No country buys gas for rubles. None! Is the price of gas set in rubles? NO ! IN DOLLAR or EURO! https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-27/four-european-gas-buyers-made-ruble-payments-to-russiahttps://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-12/ten-more-european-gas-buyers-open-ruble-accounts-for-payments https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/24/eu-russian-gas-putin-rubles/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/several-european-traders-have-started-pay-russian-gas-roubles-sources-2022-04-28/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/germany-and-italy-approved-russian-gas-payments-after-nod-from-brussels/ 2. Iran does not produce 3D printers. Iranian companies using Western technologies and Western component base produce MODIFICATIONS of 3D printers. But they themselves did not invent a single technologically new 3D printer. No print technology, no media, no print head technology.. Nothing! lolThere are two types of 3D printer production lines in Iran. One type is more like assembly lines that import parts and assemble them under the Western licenses so there is no modification involved here and the other type is full production lines that produce a 3D printer and all its parts 100% so there is nothing to modify here either, just pure invention. I leave Russia with 80 btc same 1.4 million. No way does anyone know I have the BTC so easy peasy to flee Russia and have wealth. It depends on where your destination is and how you are storing those bitcoins. In a lot of countries specially in the Western bloc they will search you and confiscate your hardware wallets.Hardware wallet was seized by US customs: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5260116.0 I heard similar thing happen in Australia too. If the person is migrating as a refugee, things could even be worse since most of EU (like Denmark for example) have some sort of "jewelry law" where the police can force you to give up anything worth more than usually a grand. That could include your bitcoins specially if kept on a "physical" wallet. Title: Re: Somebody’s been on a gold-buying bender. It’s not clear who — or why. Post by: misterrtwisterr on December 17, 2022, 08:20:07 PM Russia being perhaps the wealthiest and most powerful nation currently under economic sanctions. Is it possible russia is buying up global reserves of gold in an effort to circumvent global sanctions? Another nation which has scaled up its gold mining operations in recent times is china. There have been recent headlines claiming the united states is imposing trade sanctions on chinese exports. Perhaps there could be some connection there. Aside from those obvious candidates, I was thinking that perhaps central banks could be purchasing gold. There have been media sources which claimed it could be a current trend. Could it be they're preparing for a gold standard currency to rival the dollar and euro on a global market? I mean, it didn't go well for anyone trying to do that (Gadafi is one of the latest examples). But China and Russia might be giving it a shot. |