Bitcoin Forum

The less we use cash, the more we pay people through a corporation. The last remaining use of cash and direct payments is Tipping.
Everything else we must pay through a corporation. We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved. As cash disappears this becomes a final fact -- a corporation involved in every financial transaction you pursue. In each transaction, the corporation is taking their percentage but also controls and monitors your transaction.

BTC

Bitcoin

Though you weren't clear enough, but from the little I understood, I would say that to a great extent, you are right about not being able to pay another human except a cooperation is involve when payment has to do with cash, which I would like to refer to as fiat.

Bitcoin is indeed, freedom and has brought freedom to the finances of as many that have embraced it, I am a living testimony to this fact, fiat found with me this days are fiat ready to be spent, bitcoin and some other notable cryptocurrencies have become my savings account, and I've never receive any debit alerting me to a removal of funds for card or account maintenance(a thing very common with money saved in the bank).

It depends the country you are into, because i believe that no corporation we are paying in my country once we make use of cash for any payment. I just on my own understand that, because i believe even with any other currencies which is not cash that corporation you are making reference of, will still be paid, do you realize that any transaction of Bitcoin you made theirs is a particular fees attached to it.

You are totally right. We have come to a time where we are completely controled by corporations. Fiat is controled by corporations and we as social beings are demanded to use it not because we need to havea means of exchange but as an imposition. Nowadays, we can still use fiat to payanother human hand to hand and withthat you will not be unser the scope of a given corporatio, but Now that CBDCs are becoming a reality, this situation will be even more upon us as fiat cash will be taken out from circulation. Once that happens we will become total slaves. Hence the uttermost importance of Bitcoin, as it will be the only form of financial form humans will have access to.

Yes.. I totally agree with this statement of yours, because the less cash we use, the more money we pay in terms of "fees" to host finance firm's when trying to execute a transaction, but thats where Bitcoin comes into play, offering us the ability to execute transactions directly without the need of middle men (banks) involved, fast and borderless. But you just have to know that there are two kinds of Bitcoin wallet (i.e Centralized wallet hosted by an exchange & Decentralized wallets independent on its own). Which means that if your have your Bitcoin in a Centralized exchange wallet it simply means the exchange has control over your funds, but if it's in a decentralized independent wallet, it means they have no control over it. Which is why is always advisable to save our funds on an independent wallet

While I would agree that this certainly does seem to keep becoming more and more the case, I can't say I agree with you in full for how much this is actually happening.  I still know of a good amount of businesses where people actually request cash in hand.  For example my dry cleaners will charge something crazy like 5% if you decide to use a credit card instead of cash, which essentially forces you to use cash.  The laundry mat down the street only takes cash etc etc.

Bitcoin has been serving us with the benefits of ease in making payments through the digital currency than with the use of fiat and the other one is the benefits that reduced the effectiveness of cash bulkiness when making payments, there's no doubt about bitcoin being the current economy solution, making payments anonymously without any physical trace will render the use of fiat to drop from how it's been used for bitcoin to grow since the world now evolved into digital transaction because it's decentralized.

This is how digital innovation works, cash transfers are highly inadequate to cater for all transaction needs that we have, hence we need digital form of payments, which can allow us pay from anywhere, to anyone in the world.
The centralization that comes with it is a downside and means our financial dealings are mostly controlled by corporations, which are inevitably controlled by the government.

Bitcoin allows us transact, without a cooperation or central authority, but digital transactions are still giant leaps in innovation.

"We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved."

that is probably one of the better(best) ways to word the risks of a cashless society.

i have seen people shout "privacy" or shout "senator/minister watches my every mcdonalds purchases"

but the simple explanation of the requirement of corporate middleman authorisation and no longer any direct payment via sole control between individuals. is the better explanation i have seen lately

If I may get you clear and from your own point of view I was able to get the fact that you do tipping by fiat most when it gets cooperate body involved and you have a regular payment through Bitcoin which has long been your routine or culture if you may wish. Well I am not surprised because bitcoin was initially designed for the alternative payment which is a p2p form and that has been the stance since it's inception as a digital recognized currency. Bitcoin was built to avoid third party and to encourage digital payment with speed and transparency without any form of irregularities as the usual pattern of delay and others. I think this step you have taken in payment is a good one and it definitely would yield positive results soonest. Keep up with the promotion in your own way and watch as others follow your step.

Digitalization has been introduce and this one became more famous when pandemic came where many find a solution not to create more physical contact to other people. Many people like this idea because they don't need to bring some cash on their pocket anywhere and they can use their phone directly to pay so this is totally perfect with bitcoin since it can be use as that to.

But I don't think cash/fiat will gone since government will still backed up and maybe digital payments will became just an option.

bitcoin proves digitisation does not mean requirement of middleman authorisation  to permit payment

however with fiat (paper or digital) a paperless version of fiat means the disappearance of direct payment without middleman permission.

on the flip side. to dowse the flames of conspiracy nuts
a CBDC in the multiple forms available to review today, including china. are not where citizens are required to seek permission or individual supervision by politicians.
they are however managed by commercial payment services (corporate banks) who would do the permission and monitoring. and report suspicious activity to "government"

Well versed, OP. That's what Klaus Schwab is working hard on achieving and that is why he praises Trudeau so much, because that guy showed the world what can be done when you have full control of people's money. When you're able to stop the flow of money you're able to force people into submission. They want to gather somewhere and protest? Take their money so they have to walk there and ask others to buy them food. With no money they can't even pay their Internet bill. You take their money you stop the flow of information. They can't send a letter with no money, they can't can't print leaflets, can't buy weapons to protect themselves. Money is power.

Your comments are quite right because although cash is issued by a centralized organization called the central banks but it reduces to some extent the influence of middlemen. This cashless economy has introduced and increased the number of corporations that serves as a link between the banks and its customers. And the most annoying part of this whole scenario is that it is the citizens that bears the cost of these transactions fees. With these centralized corporations our entire financial lives are now directly or indirectly been controlled by the government.

I think the best form of a cashless economy is a decentralized one. A financial medium that is less expensive, fast and promotes privacy should be the bedrock of any economy. But the government wouldn't want to introduce or accept such kind of payment systems because it would give them less control over its citizens.   

That's right when governments start to implement cashless transactions, it's not solely them that manages the transactions but a company that they've hired and contracted to do the job for them.
That's why the gain goes mostly to that company and it's getting control overall the transactions and money of everyone and they're just like regulated and monitored by the government and its central bank. Through bitcoin, there's no need for any of them, we transact peer to peer and there's no central powers that controls the ins and outs of money.

Those banks are one of the government's tools they used to have the stability of the currency or fiat.
Central Bank is owned by the government and that's all, they want to regulate people's money cashflow through the agencies or corporations involved which we also paid them not directly to the government.

Though your statement isn't so clear but based on my understanding, Bitcoin is the best alternative currency to using fiat.
That's why Bitcoin was created with the sole purpose of the peer-to-peer transaction.

Does your country offers a lot of cards for people to be used instead of cash in hand?

If that's what happening then it sucks for sure since it's not that they interfere with your own money they also monitor your every transaction. Luckily in my country it's not happening (yet?) and I hope it won't happen because more banks will be in under control of your own money and they can do whatever they can with your account.

But Bitcoin itself will be an answer to that kind of situation though I hope there are no restrictions to whatsoever if someone would use a crypto currency for their daily lives as a means of paying every transaction.

politicians do not have masters in economics. nor experience of banking. politicians mostly just care about their 4 year contract of being elected to represent citizens interests. which inevitably end up being the interests more so of the citizens banks and employers
so politicians are ending up as puppets of the corporate world.

corporations lobby and bribe politicians.
regulators are not former politicians or active politicians. they are actually regulators managed by ex bank managers.

again its mostly the corporate end pushing the policies of what politicians then sign into law

Politicians make so much noise, but rich corporations determines the type, extent and the direction of the sound.

https://www.tekportal.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/the-one-who-pays-the-piper-calls-the-tune.jpg
 picture  (https://www.tekportal.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/the-one-who-pays-the-piper-calls-the-tune.jpg)

In every new problem that is solved, there are sometimes things that we need to sacrifice and accept.
Let's say this, for example, being cashless transactions, for some people are treating it comfortably because as long as you have internet, you can send any payment to other people, with no need to bring all the time physical cash/fiat.
Same as Bitcoin,  you can have your bank from just your mobile phone and pay someone in just 1 tap with no other 3rd parties needed.

I certainly agree. Cash is king. The moment cash is replaced with digital currencies, there is indeed no way money could be used directly. Everything would all go through a centralized platform. That's why a CBDC is definitely worse than cash.

But even with Bitcoin, there are often companies involved in the middle. There's BitPay, PayPal, BitcoinPay, and many others. There are personal wallets but are custodial. Even if not, you are still reliant on something developed by somebody else. Even in P2P, there is often still a need to use escrow. The money would still pass through somebody else's hand.

It is true that we are seeing more and more payments all over the world being made with electronic means of payment which means a bank or another similar business is the one that is processing the transaction, but this is a trend that seems almost impossible to reverse as governments have pushed for it for a long time, however it is because of this that bitcoin which is the equivalent of cash in electronic form needs to become more popular as it could save us from a future in which corporations control our spending completely.

Not sure, usually the remaining transaction dust will be accumulated and can be reused to pay for something else. Unless with one-sided decisions they gradually erode users' money, but that's not a transparent way to be trusted.

for some reason you are actually very true, in fact is now happening in all over place, human nowadays use less cash than before. in small town in my country is using qr for their payment, in this qr accept all bank and all digital wallet. so basically it simple ready to use. the bank invented cardless also that we can withdraw money without a card.

i think the trend not using cash will keep growing since small merchant start to adapt and the government seems make a move to central bank digital currency

10 years ago
a mobile fast food vendor never accepted debit cards because the hassle of setting up a merchant account was not worth it.(also fee's were not worth it)

now
the same mobile food vendor only accepts debit cards because it does not trust its employee's to handle the cash(pocketing cash was a cost not worth continuing)

so this comes to one thing that Machines are more trustworthy than Humans  ;D

_____________________________________


OP Bitcoin will always be the best option(or at least some crypto) to use as payment because we are not paying anyone but the transaction(miner) .


so Yeah Bitcoin is always the best option to pay though the use is limited as there are still many countries that does not support crypto .

I assume that you are speaking about yourself and your experience with payments in your country.
There are a bunch of advanced countries, that have developed something like a cashless society, but the vast majority of the countries around the world are still using cash on a daily basis. I don't really think that a truly cashless financial system will be implemented around the globe in the next decades. Such cashless system would dominated by the US dollar(with the euro having the second place), but the big Asian superpowers like Russia, China and India would most likely try to protect their national currencies from the US financial dominance and create their own financial block. Unfortunately, I don't see Bitcoin as a global alternative to the concept of cashless society.

The share of digital payments varies heavily from country to country. There are countries where over 70-80% of payments are cashless, there are also countries where only 20-30% are. I don't see any country officially adopting a policy of getting rid of cash entirely. That would create more problems than it solves, cash is a plan B for emergencies that render digital payments unavailable, it also works in places with poor or no connectivity, and so on.

That is not the case here in my country, cash is still heavily in use here even though the government is pushing hard for a cashless economy but it is not the same as the situation you have described above, I can't imagine how hard and frustrating such situation will be when the third party is in charge of every of your payment.
Definitely, btc will serve as a great alternative in such a situation that way you will bypass the use of those corporations you mentioned, assuming btc is accepted.

You cannot imagine? That is already what is happening on our daily transactions using fiat and to some instances, including ceyptocurrencies especially if you are withdrawing some of your funds or profit. We have to accept it; linkage of governments to any transaction which are being done on a daily basis. From buying market goods, paying service and more; there is a usage of 'third party' and that is already the government. One main reason why we won't be able to get rid of it is simply because of the 'system' existing inside and outside this industry.

When it comes on making use of decentralization of this industry for a long run, I think there will always be people to prefer fiat because of consistency with the price. Fiat transactions indeed has higher fees but for sure it is more convenient to the majority.

Not really, when you live in hyperinflation you quickly realize how useless fiat is. You pay in currency x but they want equivalent of currency y, so it doesn't matter if you pay with currency z they just want the equivalent of currency y.

Until currency y too crashes in a spiral of hyperinflation, then something else is used. Anything like cans of tuna, cigarettes or whatever. Those who talk about "convenience" of fiat have only lived with the "strong ones" forgetting that those too, can fall since they have the same flaws, as seen with the pandemic they all printed even more than usual just because they can, and only now some people are noticing.

The State issued fiat currency. Who issued bitcoins? The people independently who participated in the mining at some point. For the first time in history we have a real global currency, and no State issued it which is brilliant, we sidestepped the system. State or Bank can adopt it if they want, it doesn't matter to us. Sure its more "convenient", but not necessary, it will work with or without them, which is why it has so much value.

It also happens in several countries that have not approved the full use of bitcoin in their country. Its citizens also still use cash for payments. And as long as bitcoins are not widely accepted, they will still use cash even though bitcoin can serve as a great alternative. It will also depend on how the government can play a role in introducing crypto to the public but it looks like it will still take time for bitcoin to be truly accepted in the country. And I don't think that cash will disappear but maybe it will transform into digital money.

I like the convenience of high level of digitalization. It's easy to use Google Pay or a PayPass chip on a debit card, not needing to think about the country you're in and having a proper currency with you when you are travelling. Fiat can have its own problems when ATM withdrawals are limited or there simply aren't enough ATMs to meet the demand, and if you're going to another country, exchanges to get fiat can collect ridiculous fees, as well as require an ID after some threshold. That being said, sometimes the cashless motive goes way too far. For example, in London, you can pay a bit more than 2 pounds for underground if you pay contactless, but a whopping 6 pounds and something if you pay with cash! I'm surprised it's even legal, given that cash represents the same currency, so how can the price differ so much!
Bitcoin is a great solution, one which doesn't require intermediaries. But that's not the case in practice, when acceptance of Bitcoin is still very low in many places, so you can't just use Bitcoin directly.

Considering that people are commonly using bank cards these days and there are digital payment processors that are continuously being used a lot here in my country. I can imagine that if people would somehow just realize how great decentralization then they would all just start using Bitcoin although Bitcoin being global currency is not going to happen obviously since we have government that are surely going to try to regulate the usage of it through either taxes or horrendous fees.

People would still be used to fiat since it is the one that just became the usual stuff they got used to since.

I have never thought of it this way until now. You are correct though but in the country where I reside, he last remaining use of cash and direct payments is not just Tipping. We still use cash in the market, we still use cash to pay for transportation with the cabbie, cash is still used for payment in at the gas station. Bitcoin transaction is picking up slowly but not at the pace of other nations where one can use bitcoin for payment of goods or services.

"We no longer pay people directly"

Erm... I just paid my bus fare in cash today. Not everywhere uses PayPal or fancy fintech apps. Not that they are unavailable or anything, but most places in the world just aren't infected by Silicoin Valley hype culture.

We should expect that the world will evolve to be more and more digitized, and expect that transactions we are doing, are being recorded. Not only that, the services and goods will be specifically categorized. It potentially opens up a more controlled approach way of transaction handling, which is seriously concerning.

Bitcoin here seems a truly promising option for many people to directly transact digitally without any intermediaries, in another hand, cash would be the sole option. Unfortunately, it seems that many people will keep preferring convenience, so it will beat those two things, a convenient way that many people already getting used to using centralized entities. So, the way forward should be making bitcoin users' barrier to entry getting lower, which is a better UX for the ecosystem and widely spread adoptions.

I understand that many places in the world still use cash often. But as the world transitions to a more digital economy your country will eventually stop using cash. Thus my statement remains true: We cannot pay another human unless there is a corporation involved.

This statement is extremely alarming to me. This is fundamentally not right. How can we live in a world where corporations/governments force themselves in every monetary transaction.

Many people still use cash since their digital infrastructure  is not so good and their digital economy is not well backed up by the government. Maybe if there's an upgrade towards this and they could make their internet fasten up and have digital economy upgrades we can see  many third world country would adopt this changes. Its just the government is the problem to make this transition to happen.

This means that it will depend on which country you live because there are countries that did not support bitcoin as a payment method.
Bitcoin is one of the best alternative currencies as of now to use when it comes to digitalization currency. But I believe there is still the government that is open-minded when it comes to bitcoin, instead of stopping their people to use bitcoin they allow it, and becomes legal tender in their place. Banks and other regulated government agencies work together and if bitcoin is against you in your place, there is nothing you can do.

I am pretty much confused about what you mean by corporate. Does it mean a payment gateway for crypto payments? If so that's fine. Even though not with crypto payment but world moving to a cashless payment system day by day. It's with card payment or MFS services. MFS services become popular too quickly and crypto still struggles to do the same. The main problem is the government still hasn't allowed accepting crypto this way like MFS. Need more adaption by the government to become a popular crypto payment system.

The government and the centralized entity are lazy enough to freeze the funds, actually they can prevent any scam or lost by user fault 100% since they have full control over their money. Even though the scammer send their money to an entity that the government doesn't have any control, but they can detect it since the user already submit full KYC upon registration.

When you steal someone money in cash, only CCTV and video to search the criminal, but if the criminal is using centralized digital infrastructure, there's no way to hide it.

People who use cash to pay for their bills is either they're ignorant of the digital age or the government have pace high restrictions on cryptocurrency, because they've foreseen the future and knows fully well that it will affects them the most. Cryptocurrency is one of the thing that have happened to the digital age and it will stop at nothing till it have been fully spread across the world. There's enough time for it to go round and those countries that ban it are only doing its citizens harms by refusing them to participate in the new digital age transformation.

Most of the country who are not that high yet in adopting digital payments are scared due to the news and issues of scamming, in my country the purpose and advancement of crypto weren’t usually in news but when there are news of scam attempt or people loses their money in crypto even they are the ones who bought or invest in some unknown coins it refers sometimes in news as crypto or bitcoin which is announced in television as if it only gives negative feedback so others are scared to use it. However, we know that somehow in the future digital transactions were much be in demand than having cash. So, it will be better if we can adopt now and learn how to use it than be left out.

It makes much more sense for us to hope than to think anything about the statements of the government or people who think negatively about this decentralized currency. Bitcoin is expected to become the most popular currency in the future for daily transaction needs, but I will still think about regulation or legality because it is clear that the government will try to reduce the adoption rate by issuing CBDC. They will have their own centralized crypto, so regulation will remain a barrier for decentralized currencies like bitcoin.

Tipping? Unless it is directly one to one, it goes through a corporation anyway and relies on the service provider to share and distribute the tips. Only time one to one happens now is delivery. Even at caterig business it all goes into some pool you hope works out for the guy you really want to tip.

Want to say Bitcoin is the way out of this but most times I use Bitcoin to buy something it still goes through a Bitpay or similar processor, if not a gift card company accepting BTC topups.

I even will admit most of my liquidation still goes through a third party for escrow protection so yeah, I do get paid directly thanks to Bitcoin and I love that... Sadly I don't get to pass it on directly very much.

Government cashless policy,transactions are managed by corporation which makes it a centralized system, they can monitor and trace any suspected illegal transactions or money laundry, and freeze the account if it is true. They are only extorting citizens with cashless transactions due to charge rates that sometimes might be cumbersome, mainly if you have just $500 in your account and want to pay for something important that is worth $500, it will make you impossible to purchase it due to their charge rate


The only way for financial freedom is to embrace bitcoin fully for transactions in other to be free from the government, financial institution and third party to limit the charge you pay for transfers and this is what the government hates about bitcoin because it gives them no access to track your transactions or even know if you are making or not making a transaction due to its decentralized system

Can CBDC be really referred to as Crypto? I noticed in a couple of threads that some have referred to CBDC as crypto is this not misleading or am I the one that doesn't fully understand?
Anyways, I believe a digital transaction is where most countries are headed hence fewer cash transactions. My country just passed a law of reduction on the cash you can withdraw from your bank account weekly/monthly OTC or ATM because they are trying to encourage cashless transactions even though they still have restrictions on Crypto transactions, so at the end of the day, the Government will eventually be a determinant whether the use of Bitcoin and other cryptos will be used regardless whether we want it since some are strongly promoting their CBDC. 

Actually they are involved because there needs confirming authority for everything these days. This also makes sure that government is getting the taxes paid so that they can use the money for national developments and also for emergencies throughout country. I think it’s pretty fair system in the world where we live. And don’t worry we are paying taxes since thousands of years.

First there were King rules, dynasties, princely states and what not. Everyone paid taxes to get protection within that region from enemies or what not.

Even though there was no online payment system.

We can only be free if there was no such thing as tax.

I have not understood your question properly but I will say that  Crypto is only thing that will reduce fiat cash distribution. Cause more we use Bitcoin and crypto more people will gain knowledge and also more w will be able to generate income. And that will be super great. And I cannot believe that there are still some people who say that Bitcoin is a fraud and it has no future. But in near future they will see Bitcoin future than they will  cry and they will be in so much shock 😲.

I am pretty sure that mobile payments will become even bigger than everything else. We may not be aware of it right now, but almost all banks either have it or working on it where you as the vendor will show a QR code, and the payer will open up their bank app and just read the qr code and confirm the payment and that's it.

No more of this old card stuff, just our mobile phones will be enough. This already started and will be huge. During this period crypto will become huge as well because we will be able to pay with crytpo apps instead of bank apps and just pay the vendor. That future is great, I want to be in that future and it looks to be great.

The shopping app has analyzed our shopping preferences in our daily spending and automatically pushes various advertisements.
Cash payments are rarely used, and online payments are inevitably tracked and analyzed.
Payments in cryptocurrencies are not yet widespread. I really hope that day comes sooner.

I don't know where you live but mobile payments are already a reality in most rich countries, even for small payments, and I doubt that mobile payments using fiat will be replaced by cryptocurrency payments. It's going to depend a lot on legislation which is one thing that doesn't look good. If they impose KYC for any transaction, paying for a coffee will have you perfectly identified just like when you pay by card or CBDC and will also potentially create a taxable event. A taxable event, potentially, for every payment you make in your whole fucking life. For that I believe that people will not get complicated and will pay with the means that do not create taxable events.

That's right with these digital transactions there third party involvement in settling the transaction having it's fees and in this case it's the banking institutions and we can't cut them loose also as it's supposed to work that way.The government will never loose its control over your money and will always monitor your spending habits which is why many people are shifting to btc like decentralisation tools to have full freedom of your funds and no third party involved.

The digital transactions are at very high rate and rising even more after pandemic because the people are finding it more easy to pay through your mobile with your banks linked to it rather then carrying cash in your hands but still there are some small merchants left who are not accepting it but at mass around me people accept it.But as said the central control by government can't be avoided in these cases.

By corporation, I guess you mean third party intermediaries. And for sure the disappearance of paper money will result in close monitoring, less privacy and full control over our funds. Bitcoin is also less private, but it gives full control of our funds with no central third party intermediary to monitor who owns what and how it came about. Taking percentages for transactions is a norm. That is less of a worry, the concern should rather be how secure this transactions are and who controls and own them because whatever is not controlled by the user is never owned by that user.

This relationship continues with the cooperation that has begun to be built, and in my opinion this relationship cannot be calculated as a whole, if you want to use bitcoin payments, because fiat currency is still considered important by some people.

For this I quite agree, that bitcoin can be accepted as freedom to store the best assets in the long term, so it does not require debit, card or account maintenance and is not charged with any administration fees as long as we keep it. Bitcoin is more rationally used as a storage asset and is able to maintain value, so that humans are free to determine the direction of investment and transactions that involve themselves.

So what you are trying to imply here? That BTC is much better than cash because BTC doesn't need a third party? Hell yeah, though I think this mainly applies online but in real life, it is actually possible to pay another person directly by using a cash.

The first line in your sentence can be true depending on the medium that we use for transacting E.g for credit cards because there are interest rates on them but BTC? I don't really think so. I know I should be confident with this one thinking that BTC is decentralized but I realize that we have to pay the miner to process our transactions however there are alternative cryptos our there which are almost free to use.

It is better than cash if we can directly transact with BTC but adoption isn't that spread yet.  There are lots of Bitcoin merchants that accept payment via third party application that converts BTC to cash as we pay for our purchase.


The idea of we no longer pay people directly is a moot.  Just go to a marketplace and have a transaction.  We can still pay people directly.  I don't know if OP had made any activities around the local marketplace.  I bet he doesn't and is not aware that market still accept cash and cash alone.

What OP have come to say isn't clear. I understood that the involvement of third party have taken most of the places other than tipping. In the past people used to make direct transaction with fiat and now everything is done through a third party payment application. Only for tipping purpose fiat is used. In reality tipping too happening through scan and pay. So, what he mentioned as Corporate is taking control of everyone's fund. This will slowly change when people slowly move towards bitcoin.

I don't exactly understand what you mean by corporation, either its company or bank!

But the cash aka fiat itself is enough whether we use digitally or physically because the money is nothing but paper printed out of thin air and the supply increases every year so the payment processor getting a percentage is nothing compared to the money we actually use don't have any intrinsic value at all.