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I have not used LastPass password manager before, some people said it is also used for 2 factor authentication, but this is about people that are convenient to store their seed phrase, private key and password using a password manager that can connect online. The password manager uses vault to store people's information which are encrypted. In August 2022, hacker breached data of LastPass users, but can only be accessed using the password the users used to encrypt the data, said LastPass.

LastPass attacker stole password vault data, showing Web2’s limitations (https://cointelegraph.com/news/lastpass-attacker-stole-password-vault-data-showing-web2-s-limitations)
LastPass data breach led to $53K  ??? stolen, lawsuit alleges (https://cointelegraph.com/news/lastpass-data-breach-led-to-53k-in-bitcoin-stolen-lawsuit-alleges)

What do you think about this? Before hacker can have access to something, that means the vault is online. If something is online, it can be hacked. If a password manager is not offline, do not use it. I like to put my seed phrase on a paper, if you want it safer, you can use a steel backup for it, there are steels that you can buy to backup your seed phrase and it is not a waste of money.

If you are afraid of people not to see your seed phrase and steal it, keep your seed phrase in a very safe place but use passphrase to make it safer.

In my opinion, online storage is equally dangerous whether you store it on Gmail or iCloud... are not safe. I like to print my seed phrases on paper and use plastic to make them more durable, super convenient to store, and easy to move. I was thinking of using small steel plates to carve the phrases, but I really don't trust handing them over to the blacksmith or any stranger.

LastPass is the worst password manager app I have ever seen, it has been hacked many times before, not just once in 2022. Currently, I also use a password manager just to create strong passwords and manage regular passwords, never used to save bank accounts or important emails. Honestly, I never wholly trust online storage services, they are only for convenience, never guarantee safety.

I had an experience where I stored my keys in the cloud, and I lost access to the cloud. Since then I no longer store any seed and pass phrase associated with my wallet in any software or online repository. I prefer to keep my phrases in a book that I can easily keep at home. Indeed, books can be lost, but I always save with backups and this makes me feel safe.

No online password security will be as strong as storing offline, either it's 2FA or 3FA Authentication do not use them to store your wallet's private seed.

There is no malware, spyware or hackers without online/ internet access, think about it, the only way to stay safe is offline 100%.

Writing seeds down on a paper book or steel carving is the best practice ever.

I've always thought storing your data online is a terrible feature for a password manager! Obviously the hacker still needs the user passwords, but now he got all encrypted files at once. By only storing your passwords locally, the hacker would have to hack millions of computers to get the same data.

LastPass has a terrible reputation. The last story is still not fully understood. On December 22, the team admitted that the leak was more serious than they expected. And yes, we also remember that the team did not immediately react to warn users. There is an explanation of what happened; you can follow the link.
https://blog.lastpass.com/2022/12/notice-of-recent-security-incident/

But by trusting third parties with our seed phrases or passwords, we are tacitly signing a disclaimer. Therefore, in order not to blame ourselves for any incidents, such as theft or leakage, we must rely only on ourselves. In addition, we all exaggerate the complexity of storing important data. There is always a place in your personal space where you can store things away from prying eyes, be it paper with a seed phrase, a flash drive, or something else. And it is better that there are several archives, but in reasonable quantities.

Anything that is stored on the Internet is not safe, very powerful websites have been hacked and their data stolen so I do not trust any online storage service.

Of course, storing seeds on paper and storing paper in a safe place is much better, but you must also be careful because paper is vulnerable to loss, damage or theft, so you must choose the place to store paper with great care.

it is preferable to divide the seeds into several sections and put them in different places so that even if Part of the seed was stolen, not enough to steal the wallet.

People will always go for convenience. And you cannot deny the fact that accessing that online stored passwords across all your devices is a nice feature. It's still better than having the same (weak) password everywhere, you know...
Of course, everything that's stored online is at a certain level of risk. That's why the things (websites, apps) that hold money need at least 2FA too. And the online things should not hold meaningful amount of money.
And, bottom line, clearly, keeping wallet seed anywhere online is an awful idea, the worse possible one.

Previously, I had stored all data online, such as Google Drive, iCloud, Dropbox, but I no longer stored it there, the past has become a lesson where I cannot access it anymore and the safest and most comfortable way to store seed phrases is offline with writing paper that is kept at home, I even wrote several papers so that one could be lost there could be a backup for the other I did that when some important data had to be kept safe offline.

As many have suggested storing offline is a good way to protect data from being hacked, you can also have a physical safe and I store there, because there is much more that we have to protect our assets than especially this seed phrase is very important.

My friend is now frustrated because he saves all the data on his cellular when the cellphone falls and is damaged the data can't be backed up anymore, he has lost what assets he has, a sad story.

Especially if you are active in Bitcoin circles, especially if you also tell how much bitcoins you have, ... keeping the backup seed at home is not great, since it's the first place a burglar would search for it.
So if you keep it at home, find a way to make it not-really-obvious.
Keeping multiple copies in multiple geographically separated locations becomes a must, especially if you get to amounts that really matter.

I have been for that belief a long time ago when I've been into this market that keeping important details/data such as passwords and private keys on the cloud is never been safe. Keeping it traditional on a piece of paper or anything that you can keep safely(offline) is way better than it.
Steel plates or dog tags are good ones that I've seen but I've been doing this on a piece of paper for a long time and this has made me more concern about my private keys I'm the one who's really keeping them.

Sure I can: I don't want to share all my passwords on all my devices, it's insecure and therefore a terrible feature. Every additional device that has access increases the risk of compromising your data.

That is indeed terrible too. I especially hate websites that ask you to change your password regularly, that just encourages people to use something simple.
My system: I use different accounts for different devices. Hence LoyceMobile (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1903546). Disable password recovery as much as possible. Don't do banking on mobile. Use a separate Bitcoin wallet on mobile. Never use my creditcard on mobile (that saves a lot of money too).
I'm also paranoid to install anything untrusted. I prefer not to install it at all, but if I have to, I'll use a VM or a dedicated laptop (when done, I dualboot into the second partition to overwrite the first partition (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2836875.msg60084872#msg60084872) in a few minutes).

I love dust crypto wallets without password and I hate 2FA. Many websites take more and more time to access, just because people can't keep their passwords safe. Every time I login to Gmail from a private window, it emails me to tell me what I did. It's annoying for unimportant accounts.

I'm not that brave :P

While I clearly understand your point, I find it somehow making your live more difficult for not enough of good reasons (of course, you may see my point superficial).
I clearly know that your security is better than mine. But I simply keep my coins on hardware wallet, so I avoid easily most of the possible bad surprises in one step. And the rest - if my passwords get stolen, while it would clearly be a bit unpleasant, it will (by far!) not be the end of the world.
So I went for convenience, knowing hopefully most* of the risks and keep them at a rather low level.

* I don't consider myself knowledgeable enough to claim that I know all of them; doing that would be the first step towards great mistakes.

It may surprise you, but I actually find it easier. No need to worry about my phone, if I lose it I get a new one (okay, that's expensive). Less malware to deal with, and strong passwords everywhere.

I also prefer to save Seed phrases offline. At first I just wrote on a piece of paper in my notebook and kept it with other important documents. but I have read in this forum about another way which is more effective and safe even without having to keep it locked. i.e. spreading every word in a Novel book
which is boring and has quite thick pages. and how it spread only I know. So it will be difficult for someone to find word for word in the novel. because it requires a special sign which is quite difficult to be found by people who don't know.

I was inspired by this post by Mr. @ahli38 in this thread

but I only do this for wallets that are specifically for storing my assets in the long term.

and for the wallet that I usually use every day, I only save it in the SDcard backup on my cellphone. I don't want to over complicate it. because there are not many assets in it. but for a special wallet for my long term investment. then obviously I saved it specially.

It will never be told to anyone how many bitcoins I have because privacy will still be guarded by me so that people will never know the amount of ownership.
Because make sure it's a safe place for me to store the seed phrases and I also won't keep it in one wallet it's broken into several pieces and storage at home is always different at every point of its location, I make sure thieves never know because this is a piece of paper kestas that are safely hidden.

So it's important with lots of copies in various places because indeed with a very good amount I have, I have to be able to keep and I make several points that no one will ever know but these are still in the home circle.

OP didn't say anything new in his topic. Here, everyone has long known that online bitcoin storage is the biggest stupidity that can be committed and only offline will be the safest. It seems that technology has advanced a lot in recent years, but nothing can replace the creation of a physical backup.

I've always had a bias against password managers and still don't trust them. Moreover, seed phrases.

Everything is ingeniously simple: wrote seed phrase on paper (or other material of your choice) and hid it in a safe place. Make multiple duplicates in exactly the same way. What can go wrong?

What can go wrong is that someone can find it. You can encrypt it, but that means you'll need to make sure you don't lose the password.

Yes, that's right, and each copy of the backup increases the chances that someone can find seed phrases. But still, it seems to me that fewer people can find seed offline than online.

The idea with encrypted information looks better, but with the desire and computing power, it can be decrypted, right? At least it will definitely protect from prying eyes.

Unfortunately, there is no perfect way, but if you choose between online and offline storage, my preference is in favor of offline, even with all the disadvantages.

I see using this kind of method ad well as being synonymous to using a centralized wallet or using hot wallet since you're securing your seed phrase online but the funny part is that sone users don't even know why they shouldn't use such and in the same guide some presents the online storage as the safest means to security and storage of keys, newbies or any other users involved in this should understand that using a cloud storage or vault as the case may be isn't the best way to secure our seed phrase.


Exactly, if you can only make that little sacrifice of small amount in securing this is better than taking the risk that can help through loosing the whole assets, the more some prefer hardware wallets while some will run a full node if they bare technically equipped all in other to remain privately secured.

Anything stored online is exposed to attack,storing your seed phrase online will be the most foolish thing for anybody to do. I store my on a paper that put in somewhere safe that nobody will think of,I did duplicates and laminated it to make it waterproof,which are in different locations. A steel plate is what am still considering but I don't know if this will be the safest.

Yeah, well I have a ton of homework to do now. I got over 300 passwords (but I'm not stupid enough to put my seeds or wallet passwords there - actually I memorize my wallet passwords by heart) on LastPass around the time of the breach.

My master password is well above the 12-character minimum so I'm not at risk any time soon, but I'm in the process of changing all my passwords and deleting the logins for those sites that no longer exist or shut down.

LastPass is password manager and this has nothing to do with bitcoin seed phrases.
I would never suggest saving seed words on any password manager it doens't matter if its' online of offline, just use piece of paper or stainless steel washers/plate.
Similar thing is when you hear words like ''cloud'' you should know that is not really safe because it's just someone else computer drive that is online.
Great open source alternative for LastPass is called KeePass that works offline and it can be used for storing passwords, 2fa and other information.

If we are to be honest most of the measures like storing your seed phrase in your mail and so on where meant to keep that safe something like a primary means, but moving forward we can understand that it’s not really safe. Technically no measure is completely safe.

I never trust saving my stuffs on line be it saving my personal stuff I want private on an online vault in same manner I don’t keep my seed phrase online.

We don't need a third manager to protect passwords because we won't need it, but why do many people trust services that help store passwords when it's not recommended even if you don't store private keys associated with crypto wallets, it's better to store password files on external hard drives and phases are better kept on paper or steel plates that have been processed specifically for storing phrases from wallets.

We have being warned multiple times here not to secure our private key anywhere their is internet connection. if you are saving your password, make sure it's stored in a place where their is no internet connection. No matter how tight the security of where your private key is stored is, it can be hacked at any moment, that's why people are discouraged to store their private key online. If you want to secure your private key, then you can get a steel and carve you private key on it and store it, incase if water touches it, then you are safe because it won't be distroyed.

Your seed phrase is most important than your password. It's better you write it on some kind of paper or any physical notes to store your very important seed phrase. It's better to be knowledgeable about securing your account to prevent hacking.

Both are important and sometimes one is important than another and vice versa.

• If you need to have a backup for recovery, seed phrase is most important. Without it, you can not recover your wallet if your device is broken and can not be fix technically so that you can access your wallet file.
• If you don't have a backup but your device is well, wallet file is usable, you only need a password to decrypt it and access it. So in this case, password is more important.
• Of course a backup (should be multiple backups) should be a first thing to do before using any wallet.

You can brute force your wallet password if you forget it but you can do it for wallet seed. It's impossible.

I can prefer file backup for wallet.dat but if using a seed phrase wallet, I will only just prefer to go for seed phrase which makes password not to be important to access my coins because if I forget the password, I can still import the seed phrase on a new wallet to have access to my coins, but with wallets like bitcoin core that do not have seed phrase, I will prefer file backup.

It’s not safer anymore to trust your seed phrases online even how trusted the app is because as long as its operated online, it will always be at risk of losing or hacking, and lose it completely. Personally, I have my own record book about all my passwords and seed phrases of my important documents. Yes, it can still be a subject for stealing but all I have written in there are already having their own duplicates and I kept hodling them in my secret vault at home.

Storing valuable data in the cloud is not a good idea because there is a possibility that hackers can hack the cloud. It's better to save it on a computer that is not connected to the internet so that your data will be safer than anything else. This also applies to storing the seed phrases in your wallet because each person is responsible for safeguarding all of their assets.

Or you can buy a FlashDisk, store all your data on it, and not carelessly connect the FlashDisk to any computer or laptop.

Saving your seed phrase or private key online is convenient and, in most cases, relatively safe. The majority of us won't suffer the consequences of our stupidity until it's not, and there goes your Bitcoin, disappearing into thin air. Poof!

I've done both and have suffered losses with both methods. I usually resorted to pasting it into a text document and storing it on my computer. Otherwise, I'd write it in a notebook and proceed to never be seen again. As you can imagine, I'm pretty good at losing such information.

In my opinion, it's best to write it on a few pieces of paper and hide them in a few spots around your house, or in a couple of USB drives ( at least two in case one is lost or fails).

I guess masulum is talking about BIP38 keys, or mnemonic seeds with passphrase (BIP39). It's not unsafe (against hackers) to store them online, if you keep the passwords or passphrases associated with them locally. But as he says, it's not safe against inaccessibility. If the host provider loses its datas, closes its doors or become unavailable for a long time, you'll lose your keys and your funds with them.
So if you are doing that, to be able to access your keys and your funds from anywhere for example, you must keep a back up of them locally.
Using books and sheets of paper is good unless you don't lose them or suffer a fire and/or a flood (usually when you get a fire you get a flood after it, which can destroy things not burnt initially), so it's important to keep at least one back up elsewhere.

That's the problem with people who use a program to manage something. If you want to use a manager then at least choose the right program to use when managing your passwords. Even though I said or write what's on my mind about that thing is I never use password manager at all. Each person have their own way to store their passwords and I write my password on a piece of paper and also laminate the paper to make it a lot stronger and it will take a long time before it will decay. I would also have another back up stored offline if ever I lose the back up. In short, a back up or a back up.

We often get notifications and also share about how to store our seeds or private data offline to prevent various malware and especially cyber crimes. But basically, sometimes most people ignore it and think that online is more effective when we are going to use it wherever and whenever. Even though actually storing the data online is very risky. This is not surprising that many people got attach by hackers or malware and then end up losing assets.
hackers can easily find our data and then get access to everything if they want. Moreover if we are opening the ways such as by posting our assets or activities in the social media. So this will attract hackers to do mroe with us.

Passwords and other information shouldn't be stored online because they will be exposed to hackers at any time and better to store them in an offline way, but writing them on a piece of paper is not also advisable since third parties can get access to the papers and use your seed phrase at any point.
So it all balls down to you as a person and since passwords can be easily memorized you can memorize them but what about wallet seed phrase that has multiple words and characters that is not possible to memorize them at a go?
What becomes the best option for storage is it online or offline but this also leads us to one fact which is personal discipline a d being able to protect your data from being exposed to third parties.

The most important thing is the seed phrase, nothing at all.
You can recover a wallet without a password, just simply import it using the seed phrase. 
There are too many ways how to protect our seed phrase or private key as long as you stay away online, you're safe.  A piece of paper or engraved on metal, it's up to you as long as you know it's safe.

It's our responsibility to keep them safe and treat the same as money or any valuable stuff that can be stolen anytime.

Everything should be approached with caution and limited trust. I use last pass, it's a great tool. It should not be used to store the most important information like all of your important email addresses, bank accounts, anything that has to do with money or private information.

I use it for burner spam emails, sites that require registration to access but it's nothing important. I've downloaded software a few times that wouldn't allow me to use all features without registration. I don't need to remember my password to such sites in case I ever need them. Also, as long as the data is encrypted and they inform users about a breach you have a lot of time to change your leaked passwords before someone cracks the encryption.

Seed phrases, private keys, everything of this sort should be kept offline, preferably engraved on something that doesn't burn and well hidden.

Its really not safe to store your info to the cloud or to a third party software, first thing is when their system is attack and the hacker gain access to their system, its an open book for them, they can see everything.
The best approach is to put in offline making multiple copies just incase, I'm not saying its the best option, but since online everything is not safe, hackers have a lot of ways, they have their ways to access if they want to, only a matter of time for them.
I'm not saying thats its bad but if you really wan't to be safe I think its one of the best option that I can see.

There is nothing as important as the private key.

Because the seed phrase can produce the private key, that is why the seed phrase is very important but there is nothing as important as the private key.

Bitcoin core do not have seed phrase, either you backup the master private key or the wallet file. If you backup the wallet.dat, the password will be important if you encrypt it.

I never saw the allure of using password managers to help me with my passwords, let alone for storing seeds or private keys. Sooner or later something nasty was bound to happen and LastPass is proof of that. This is not the first leak or hack that involved password managers. I don't keep track of it because it's none of my business, but I think LastPass was attacked in the past as well.

Just keep your private data to yourself, and think of a system of how to create secure passwords that will still be easy to remember.   
I would rather use good old pen and paper and a notebook if it became tedious to remember all the different pass combinations.

Once upon a time, I used a clear-text file to store my passwords. Then, I installed a password manager and I'm still happy with it. I have at least 100 passwords, each with (give or take) 25 random characters.

Agreed. Although it could work on a dedicated system without internet and sufficient backups, most people just shouldn't do this.

Password managers aren't the problem, it's the ones that add internet functionality. Don't do that, don't upload your passwords in the cloud. Keep it local, and make local backups.

Agreed!

I did, and that "system" is a password manager that runs on my own system with heavy encryption and regular backups.

That means you either have weak passwords, or a very hard time using them. Example:
Writing that down will lead to mistakes. If your system is to make small adjustments to your password for different websites, that means you're making it very easy for one compromised site to access your other accounts.

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I always hate having to enter a password on mobile, and I bet most people use weak passwords because it takes far too long to type the above password on a mobile keyboard.

Most of my passwords aren't week. I say most, meaning for the sites and services I care about. Dummy accounts or accounts created for testing purposes don't belong in that group. I agree that's too complex of a password, and the only way to work with that conveniently is through a password manager. Simpler alternatives are good enough for most people. You can still generate strong passwords made up of uppercase and lowercase letters, numbers, and special characters without making it look like your dog laid down on your keyboard.

And if you found yourself in a life-threatening situation where you absolutely had to access something from your phone while away from home, but you use a password like that, your chances are pretty slim.

It's not too complex, I think that's a normal password :) One that's actually a password, and not just some simple characters.

Once you use a password manager, there's no reason not to use decent passwords anymore. Except for certain websites that restrict the use of characters and length of the password (to reduce security because their system can't handle it).

Of course. And I can remember even a few of them. But that's not enough. I just checked: for webshops alone, I have more than 50 different accounts, all with their own unique strong password.

I can't think of such a situation. I don't do banking on my phone, but have my debit and creditcard with me. I have cash and an encrypted paper wallet in my wallet, I have an emergency loan system (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4826180.msg51266018#msg51266018) in place on Bitcointalk. We have emergency services that arrive within a few minutes, and the country is so densely populated I can crawl to a house in a few meters. I don't need any of my passwords in an emergency.

Much better if you keep your seed phrase physically. What I mean is you can write down your seed phrase with a piece of paper and keep it in your trust case or something. Your seed phrase is much more important than your password so always keep in mind.

Seed phrases should only be stored physically on paper or metal and in no digital form whatsoever. You can't hack a piece of paper safely tucked away somewhere where no one can find it. I am not sure what a 'trust case' is supposed to be. Are you talking about safety boxes maybe? I hope you don't mean carrying the seed with you in your briefcase or another type of bag or physical wallet because that is not recommended at all.

Actually Bitcoin Core uses HD wallets with private keys derived from a seed since several years. Only the first versions of the software didn't use them. The seed is not in the BIP 39 mnemonic format but in the WIF private key one, that's why so few people are aware about it.
But you can simply get it by doing a dumpwallet and looking at the first lines of the dump file. The seed will be a key named hdseed in the file.
https://bitcoincore.org/en/doc/24.0.0/rpc/wallet/sethdseed/

keeping our seed 100% safe and offline is the safest practice to avoid hacker attacks! transcribing one's seed sentence on sheets of paper or on steel platelets still has its degree of danger! paper is easily perishable in case of fire, for example, or it can be easily found by prying eyes if badly preserved, the steel plate could be lost, for another example. therefore security can never be 100%. It would be necessary to make many backups and a lot of care and conserve well

Pen and notepad is perhaps one of the best options for storing our passwords and seed phrases. As for seed phrases, we can use our imagination and write it down in a way that only you can understand. But this is everyone's business, it's like an additional security measure.

I have also never used a password manager and never will, the risk is too high to put my funds at risk. And even more so, I never saved passwords on my laptop or phone, because this is probably the first place where they can steal it. Pen and notepad it's the easiest and most reliable way that has never let me down.

The best way someone can store seed phrase is through documents on a paper, from the beginning i was thinking that the best conditions to keep seed phrase is through email documentation, but right now i have detect that storing your seed phrase online can give easy access of penetrating to the seed phrase, so the best someone can do is to store in a paper and store to a private place.

This is by far the best approach to it and that's the method I adopt. However, the downside to it is how do you assess it when you're far from home? I believe it's because of this hiccup that makes people want to save their seedphrase or passwords online/electronically so that they can easily assess them from anywhere without minding the danger of a leak. This is where being old fashioned pays, if you asked me.

Paper has even more limitations. It burns, it breaks, it can get lost, it can be read by random people if they find it, the ink can be damaged by water...
If you want to use paper make sure to store it in a steel or aluminum, waterproof container. I like storing things in electronic form but I do it offline on good old hard drives. They're pretty robust and can sustain more beating than a memory card or an ssd and can be recovered even after taking some serious beating. The upside is they can be encrypted and can fit more data than a simple piece of paper.
The important thing is to keep the offline at all times and only connect to machines you know are safe. It's really cheap to build a dedicated PC these days. A cheap, small computer cost about 2 times more than a hardware wallet and with some tweaking makes a secure access point.

I think it's a tough way to learn something we have been saying for a while. The less failure points the better, when you have your seed phrase stored online there is ONE failure point, you.

The more complicated your setup is, the greater the danger that you will make a mistake while setting it up or not remember what exactly you did in the future. A copy of 12/24 words written down in order is pretty self-explanatory. If you play around with the sequence or use any other memory tricks and systems, it can create unnecessary problems for you and your future heirs.

Whatever you own, you are going to leave it to your family if something happens to you. They shouldn't suffer trying to figure out what exactly you did. It's easier to explain to them to import a set of words in the order they were written down instead of having them memorize or write down your personal system.   

I read all the arguments you put out there against saving seedphrases on paper. They're valid points but you also have to know that no system is infallible. Every system has its peculiarity and can't be said to be perfect. I think the greater part of the task in security our wallets lies with us. Individuals must learn how to tighten the safety of whatever they use in securing their funds, whether offline or online; whether software or hardware.

They should do their works silently.

If nobody knows they are rich, they are less likely become targets of thieves. If nobody around you knows you are cryptocurrency investor, you will less likely be in their radars.

If your devices are broken, learn to fix them by buying hardware stuffs and replace them by yourself, at home. With Youtube, Internet, you can replace a lot of things for your devices by yourself.

If it is out of your ability but a device is low in value like an old smart phone, let it be and buy a new one to use. Don't bring it to any store. Restoring your phone to factory condition won't make it completely impossible to be hacked.

I guess the paparazzi thing engulfing cryptocurrency is because of the preponderance of youngsters coming into the industry who erroneously equate the industry with the entertainment industry where public display of cash and affluence is a thing. We all know how exuberant youngsters can be. Being in this industry is supposed to entail secrecy and privacy. Those who keep and shield themselves from public scrutiny enjoy their new found riches quietly and in peace. Those who don't find themselves constantly harassed by the public.

Use your imagination? Trust me, this is probably the worst piece of advice. I've lost quite a few seed phrases which I had written in a notebook in the past, thinking I'd remember where it is a year later. Trust me, I didn't have a single clue. Let alone coming up with your own encryption or randomizer of the seed phrase. It's a 99.9% guarantee that you'll lose it.

Moreover, I'm not fond of password managers either. I could be wrong, but in my opinion, it's best to avoid third parties in such a delicate matter.

Both methods have benefits and drawbacks; both can be lost in a variety of ways or even destroyed. I'm yet to apply this myself, but the best option out there seems to be to write it down on a few pieces of paper and hide them around the house, such as under a drawer or a cupboard. You can even use some hints for the locations on your phone; hardly anyone will ever suspect such a thing, and I also find it exaggerated for anything to happen that way.

Seed phrases are safer on a notebook than anywhere else, the only thing to watch out for is natural disasters like water and fire, if you want to take this to another level then carve the words on a stainless steel and keep that in a safe location that only you knows and have access to.

Anything online is not friendly to crypto wallet and keys.

You shouldn't deviate away from standard encryption methods that have proven to be resilient and work for the majority of people. I agree with you on the part of not creating your own standards or reinventing hot water, as they say.

But misplacing or losing your seed that was written down in a notebook is your own fault. You didn't create something non-standard that failed you. You simply forgot where you wrote down your recovery phrase in the most natural of ways. This could have happened to you with any paper wallet backups. Even if you had a metal seed backup, you could have lost it somewhere or buried it and forgot where. It's your responsibility to remember these things. However, such backup standards aren't unusual in any ways to be avoided and not be recommended.     

I'm mostly referring to coming up with your own encryption method, as the previous poster mentioned. As you've already mentioned, standard encryption methods are fine; there's no objection to that.

No method is foolproof, but forgetting the location of my seed phrase is purely my own fault. The notebook method is actually extremely reliable if you're not careless like me. No one will ever bother going through a notebook, and even if someone encounters your seed phrase, they won't realize what it is.

If you have a diary or a notebook you used back in school, that would be a good hiding place for a seed. If the book is already filled with your class notes, you could add a seed in there somewhere. Just don't forget where it is. What you do after is very important. If that notebook is hidden away and someone finds it, that person might consider the content important. Otherwise, why would anyone look to hide it, right? But if you keep it in a visible place, preferably among a bunch of other books then it doesn't look like anything is out of the ordinary. 

Another thing worth mentioning. I agree that a thief wouldn't go through your old chemistry notes that you took back in high school searching for a seed. But if you have one of those recovery cards that are given out when you purchase hardware wallets hidden there, the thief will probably consider the card as something valuable. Valuable enough to be hidden like that.

You said that even if someone finds the seed, chances are they won't realize what it is. It's a gamble I wouldn't like to partake in. I saw a link to a video posted on the forums a few weeks ago recorded from a police cam. Anyway, the police was searching the car and belongings of a suspect and they found a piece of paper. The paper contained a list of words written down by hand. I don't remember if it was 12 or 24 words. One of the cops didn't know what it was, however, his colleague commented and said that's that bitcoin thing. It's like a password. People know about seeds, and they will know even more in the future.   

No one is going to bother to go through a bunch of school notes, that's for sure, or at least it's unlikely. But you're right, concealing a piece of paper with a 12- or 24-word phrase will make someone suspicious if they end up finding it somewhere well hidden; even if you're clueless, a simple Google search is likely to reveal what it is.

In my opinion, a notebook hidden in plain sight is above suspicion; a bookshelf with school books is the perfect example. However, I believe that we're overcomplicating things. Just write them down in a notebook or two, place them on your desk or bookshelf, and simply don't forget where you wrote them.

Yes, from my case i learn about how i can lost everything when store any .dat, seed phrase, or password note in any online service. Same like you, as i say I alread move from cloud to store my key and password offline. I wrote down all the passwords, passphrases and private keys in a book and I prepared a backup book that was placed separately. for the last 4 years I have not experienced any problems anymore. As for the .dat files, I save them on a USB.

I still haven't done everything like you two. I just save everything in a file that I keep on the USB. recording the manual in a book and keeping it for me is still quite risky to lose. because I don't have a safe enough place to store everything yet.
drawer or cupboard, I think it's still too risky when a place like that is still accessible to children. maybe I'll buy a safe or a place that no one but me can access. I already have a plan for it all.

Hmm, private keys and .dat files. I assume you are talking about Bitcoin Core's wallet.dat files or are you using some other software? It must be difficult to make physical backups of every single private key that corresponds to a new address you funded.

That's all? One digital copy on a single piece of hardware. Have you ever thought about what you are going to do if it malfunctions, you misplace it, or the kids you mentioned break it?

That's a good one to store you're phrase offline, because using email to save your phrase or private key is very high risks in the sense that, the email account maybe compromised alongside for hacker to have access towards your phrase code, therefore is better to saved your details offline than online.

Aside from the fact that it is a seed phrase, any information involving passwords should be saved offline. I used to save my passwords in my email, but when I started seeing people get hacked, I changed my habits and started saving everything offline in multiple locations to protect it from natural disasters like fire outbreaks or any other type of disaster because, as the adage goes, "Not your keys, not your coin."

storing seed phrases online is stupidity, but if you shuffle the phrases and store them in a different location by memorizing the combination it may be safe to store them online. Although I don't see any point to store your wallet seed online, store them offline will be lesser riskier than storing them online or in a Gmail or online note application.
I used to do the same, I saved them on a note connected to my email address, for accessing them both on my phone and laptop or any device I use. But now memorize my password and tweaked them to use in different places.

Instead of storing your keys on a piece of paper, how about you store them on a memory stick that can only be accessed via a password? I don't worry about a fire breaking out in my house because I always check the stove/oven every time I leave the house to make sure it's turned off and even check it during the day when no one else is around.

be careful that your method of storing your keys, is not so complicated that it will protect yourself in the end...