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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: harapan on January 08, 2023, 01:07:04 PM



Title: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: harapan on January 08, 2023, 01:07:04 PM
I have read, heard close discussions, rumours and rumoured misconceptions and misunderstanding about Bitcoin as it relates with Exchanges.

As we all are aware, the ussge if centralized exchange defeats the whole idea of Bitcoin and perhaps the reason why it was created by Satoshi Nakamoto which is decentralization and self custody. Regardless of how people speak condescendingly to friends and families about backing off from investing in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies during the recent FTX collapse.

A bit furious about it summon myself to make this up, that the failure of an exchange can and will never be the failure of Bitcoin.
Satoshi Nakamoto who I believed mined the highest number of Bitcoin has not 1% of those Bitcoin holding's on any of those popular exchanges. That should be enough for every or any sensible human out there to mimick and imitate. I consider it pure cowardice to think that if an exchange fails that Bitcoin will fail, not even the level of crypto scams will crash it nor lead it to stunt growth and adoption. Jim Cramer has been such a stupid influencer pushing people to exit investment in crypto and also to panic sell which is wrong as he said that months behind. A dialogue with people who have seen worst in the bear market and exchange collapse will have you disciplined and leaving exchanges for good, buying the dip in the process as it also an opportunity to accumulate more satoshis.
Below are something's exchange do;

In Reality, Bitcoin is a digital gold and can actually do without exchnages.. they haven't represented Bitcoin from the very beginning, an example is that the first pizza bought with Bitcoin, had no exchange playing any role in that process.

If there were no cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin, there wouldn't have been an exchange... Centralized Exchnages rose up after the creation of Bitcoin , are they any different from local banks? Making profits is the sole aim.

Since the rise of Centralized Exchnages they have more harm and ruins... From MT. GOX, Quadriss and to thr latest FTX collapse, all they do is put investors in doubt about the continuation of investments in crypto projects, both life savings and retirement plans have been shattered.

The bottom line of this all is that the failure of Centralized Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin which after every bear market has been tested, the cycle continues, gather sats around and be patient for the bull.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: fuguebtc on January 08, 2023, 02:12:59 PM
I don't know where you read that news, but I've never heard of it, bitcoin and exchanges like currencies and banks. A failed bank doesn't mean the currency collapses and neither does bitcoin. I remember we also had a topic about the correlation between bitcoin and exchanges and honestly, bitcoin can work fine even without an exchange, so saying that the collapse of exchanges will drag bitcoin to collapse is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Zaguru12 on January 08, 2023, 02:30:48 PM
so saying that the collapse of exchanges will drag bitcoin to collapse is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

I think you missed the points OP is actually emphasizing on the facts that Exchanges collapsing doesn’t have effect on bitcoin.
The only thing Exchanges that ends collapsing with huge amounts of peoples fund impacts is the mass adoption of
Bitcoin. Because ones these investors (mostly new ones) loss there funds it discourages them to continue on the path of cryptocurrency because without the in-depth knowledge of bitcoin they take it as same. Another area is the fact that bitcoin haters always attach any crypto scam or fall to it just to wave people against it, most especially the government sponsored news outlets. You will see news heading of exchange collapse as “so so amount of bitcoin was lost due to so and so exchang collapse. This is only an agenda against bitcoin and I feel people teaching others about bitcoin should severely warned them about storing their funds on these CEXs and that it has no connection with bitcoin


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: mk4 on January 08, 2023, 02:32:41 PM
Criticizing Bitcoin/crypto because of a centralized exchange failure has always been an idiotic criticism in the first place; always voiced out by ignorant people on social media. Those empty cans have always been the most vocal.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Oneandpure on January 08, 2023, 02:52:59 PM
You were mistake when comparison about Bitcoin and centralized exchange failure, there are not any relationship and impact when having trouble with centralized exchange market will make Bitcoin price drop. Honestly, Bitcoin not control by the owner of centralized exchange and have dependent their way keep exist in long term.

Have many exchange collapse last several years and Bitcoin still exist until reached all time high price last two years, when the moment Bitcoin under $10,000 ever have many bigger exchange collapse like Cryptopia, but Bitcoin doesn't have bigger impact and keep existing whatever happening on centralized exchange market. Don't hold or save Bitcoin in centralized exchange but use cold wallet and hardware wallet for saving your Bitcoin.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: franky1 on January 08, 2023, 02:55:07 PM
exchanges have a utility. (a ramp/gateway/bridge) between fiat and crypto..
however USING AS A BANK/CUSTODIAN is the big problem

letting them hold onto your value for more than the day you actually wish to trade/convert. is the risk factor.

the more they get to hoard per day, week.month. the more value hoarded. the more of a temptation it is for the owners or hackers to take



my view is this
if an exchange wants to operate. the exchange owner has to be liable to its customers. that means if share holders of exchanges are profiting from the trades. if there is a bankruptcy or hack. the share holders(as owners) need to pay up to make customers whole again.

they should not be declaring themselves as creditors/debtors whereby they get a X% of assets of a co-mingled value of company collateral.. the customers should be paid back in full first. and IF their is any remainder. then share holders can take that pennies on dollar


but to the point of the fiat world shifting blame to user stupidity and blaming bitcoin. these hacks and bankruptcies happen in the fiat world too.. there is no difference. because the bad practices of crypto leaning businesses are the fault of them doing the same 'lack of fiat security' practices of the fiat world, using fiat law and loopholes

it does not matter what currency is/was/will be using. the end result of these businesses would have been the same result


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: harapan on January 08, 2023, 04:55:40 PM
I don't know where you read that news, but I've never heard of it, bitcoin and exchanges like currencies and banks. A failed bank doesn't mean the currency collapses and neither does bitcoin. I remember we also had a topic about the correlation between bitcoin and exchanges and honestly, bitcoin can work fine even without an exchange, so saying that the collapse of exchanges will drag bitcoin to collapse is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

I see you didn't take your time reading throughout the whole text there, I'll advice you take your time already to read it.

The faluire of centralized exchange has never been and will never be the downfall of Bitcoin.
It was good to hear and read from users during the FTX collapse saying they handled the entire situations gently despite majority of them  getting bankrupt by Fxt. I would be so disrespectful of me to call you a poor reader so I won't do that.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: kryptqnick on January 08, 2023, 05:09:56 PM
I completely agree that logically, we cannot blame Bitcoin and it's unfair for Bitcoin to suffer reputational and/or financial losses when a centralized exchange failed. Bitcoin is not a company managing exchanges and exchanges aren't managing Bitcoin either. They are causally unrelated. That being said, not everything works out according to logic.
You know how a GPU can be a bit less common and gaming developers won't optimize their code for it? People will still be less motivated to buy that GPU, even though game devs are at fault. Similarly, if people like exchanges and  exchange fails, they'll feel less motivated to use Bitcoin, even though it's not its fault. I know the analogy isn't perfect, but I think it's okay to make a point. Consequently, the price of Bitcoin without centralized platforms or with failing centralized platforms can still decrease significantly.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: tbct_mt2 on January 08, 2023, 05:16:18 PM
I completely agree that logically, we cannot blame Bitcoin and it's unfair for Bitcoin to suffer reputational and/or financial losses when a centralized exchange failed. Bitcoin is not a company managing exchanges and exchanges aren't managing Bitcoin either. They are causally unrelated.
Bitcoin is only one of cryptocurrencies on a centralized exchange. A collapse of any centralized exchange does not relate to Bitcoin. Bitcoin has its market, has its price and volatility. If a centralized exchange has bad fund management for themselves and for users, they are responsible for bank run, collapse anytime.

They collapse usually not because of Bitcoin but because of tokens. Tokens are more easily to have dumps like Terra $LUNA, $UST, $FTT token from FTX exchange. Who will be able to dump $BTC from $17,000 to $1,700 in 24 hours? I believe we don't see it with Bitcoin nowadays and in future. With altcoins, we see a lot of dumps by panic sells, liquidations, rug pulls.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: albon on January 08, 2023, 05:44:54 PM
Criticizing Bitcoin/crypto because of a centralized exchange failure has always been an idiotic criticism in the first place; always voiced out by ignorant people on social media. Those empty cans have always been the most vocal.
Yes, this is true, because the main responsible for the failure of any central exchange is the central authority responsible for it and its team. No one can blame Bitcoin for the failure or collapse of the central exchange. This is far from true. Bitcoin is alive even before the emergence of these shit exchanges and after the failure and collapse of many central exchanges, Bitcoin was able to maintain its market value and the confidence of investors in it, because it is indeed digital gold and one of the best safe and reliable currencies over the years. Only ignorant and skeptical people throw these false accusations against Bitcoin due to their lack of knowledge.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: uneng on January 08, 2023, 06:13:51 PM
It really doesn't make sense to say bitcoin is guilty for the failure of exchanges. Their failure is totally related to their own mistakes when operating their businesses poorly. Sometimes it's due to lack of security and professionalism, which put customers' funds under risk of hacks, and sometimes it's due to the bad intentions of the CEOs themselves, who simply want to play with customers' funds without caring if they will lose it or not, as they know if lost, they can claim the company went bankrupt and still keep the money left through Chapter 11, which works as a legitimation of the scam by the law.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: OgNasty on January 08, 2023, 06:17:03 PM
Centralized exchanges have a few potential nightmares.  First, you have hacks that steal customer funds.  Then you have KYC leaks that expose people's identity and financial situation.  Finally, you have misuse of customer funds by the exchange themselves, a la FTX.  When you consider all the things that could go wrong with centralized exchanges, and all the ways they use your money to make money without your knowledge or consent, and it seems like you'd be better off taking the responsibility of holding your crypto into your own hands.  This can be scary, but there are ways to protect yourself.  When you put your funds on an exchange, you're trusting a whole lot of individuals to make the right decisions.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: dothebeats on January 08, 2023, 06:52:55 PM
I don't know where you read that news, but I've never heard of it, bitcoin and exchanges like currencies and banks. A failed bank doesn't mean the currency collapses and neither does bitcoin. I remember we also had a topic about the correlation between bitcoin and exchanges and honestly, bitcoin can work fine even without an exchange, so saying that the collapse of exchanges will drag bitcoin to collapse is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

Exchanges hold bitcoin and crypto, and if one exchange gets hacked, guess where some of those coins will go?

That's right. It will get sold, leading to collapse in price plus the uncertainty of investors on the severity of the hack. There's also that false impression that the public—and also the uninformed investors—has built over the years that when an exchange gets hacked, bitcoin may also 'be' hacked, which then causes panic sells that affect the price.

You're correct that bitcoin can function without exchanges, but traders and investors cannot really do their thing without exchanges. Bitcoin is only dragged on the issue because it's what's being traded on the exchanges, and it's mainly the target of hacks. Bitcoin doesn't share any of these faults and insecurities of exchanges, but it may seem like it because the price of bitcoin afterwards is what's getting affected unfortunately.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: serjent05 on January 08, 2023, 07:18:05 PM
In Reality, Bitcoin is a digital gold and can actually do without exchnages.. they haven't represented Bitcoin from the very beginning, an example is that the first pizza bought with Bitcoin, had no exchange playing any role in that process.

This will realize if people do not need cash to buy their food.  Or does not need to exchange Bitcoin to fiat currency to gain back the capital to repurchase the goods.  Bitcoin will never be this popular and in demand without exchanges.  Although Bitcoin can really operate without exchanges, but the economy will not continue without these exchanges.  We are still living in a world where fiat currency is needed to pay for all our needs.

Now if you are a retail store and only rely on your business as a source of income, and the majority of your customers use Bitcoin as payment, can you survive if there is no exchange to convert your Bitcoin to fiat currency?


If there were no cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin, there wouldn't have been an exchange... Centralized Exchnages rose up after the creation of Bitcoin , are they any different from local banks? Making profits is the sole aim.

Exchanges had been around even before Bitcoin is created do not make the misconception that exchanges originate from the creation of Bitcoin.

Since the rise of Centralized Exchnages they have more harm and ruins... From MT. GOX, Quadriss and to thr latest FTX collapse, all they do is put investors in doubt about the continuation of investments in crypto projects, both life savings and retirement plans have been shattered.

This is partly the fault of the investors.  They trust the centralized exchanges too much that they leave their Bitcoin in their platform while many always remind people the "not your keys, not your coins" phrase which means people need to self-custody and not leave their precious Bitcoin on the exchanges but many did not listen.


The bottom line of this all is that the failure of Centralized Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin which after every bear market has been tested, the cycle continues, gather sats around and be patient for the bull.

I agree on this but I think some of your "pasakalye" (introduction to your thought) is misleading or impractical.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: buwaytress on January 08, 2023, 07:55:27 PM
Does go without saying though, you don't blame the invention for the failure of the industry it enhanced.

I'm not quoting of course but people (media who then influenced people) blamed the internet for porn, for gambling, for Satanism, etc. Before that, television and video games for violence, serial killing. MTV for killing radio. Rock and roll for the destruction of values.

Go back further and they blamed newspapers and books for the loss of interest in conversation and the outdoors.

Never mind the condescending attitude you get as a Bitcoiner... just don't forget not to be the same to them when your use of a proven form of money helps you break out of one of the many fiat disadvantages.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: romero121 on January 08, 2023, 10:59:43 PM
Bitcoin is developed out of the blockchain technology where the intermediary is eliminated. This makes way for the decentralised functioning of the network. Now the existence of centralized exchanges have taken the intermediary position in some means. In one way the growth of cryptomarket is connected with the contribution from Exchanges. Same time the centralized system failures create negative image for bitcoin among the unknown people. In reality the mistake is the exchange and not the bitcoin.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: BitDane on January 08, 2023, 11:09:48 PM
Definitely Bitcoin shouldn't be blame on the failure of a company, or lost of investment of any investors.  Bitcoin is created as tool and is not capable of doing such harm.  Anything that creates negative impact are those who are using or taking advantage of the Bitcoin creation.  In short, people behind this failures are the one to be blame since they have the mind to create plans and power to execute them.  Anyone blaming Bitcoin for all those mishaps and losses are just too naive and wanted to blame others instead of blaming himself for the mistakes he had done.

Bitcoin is developed out of the blockchain technology where the intermediary is eliminated. This makes way for the decentralised functioning of the network. Now the existence of centralized exchanges have taken the intermediary position in some means. In one way the growth of cryptomarket is connected with the contribution from Exchanges. Same time the centralized system failures create negative image for bitcoin among the unknown people. In reality the mistake is the exchange and not the bitcoin.

I can blame media and people who have anti-Bitcoin propaganda for that.  Since these people have hidden interests to push the blame on Bitcoin.

The media just because they wanted to sensationalize their news unintentionally guiding people to think that the culprit is Bitcoin on the poor decisions and fraud action of these centralized owner that leads their company to collapse.  The anti-Bitcoin that is always looking for the possibility of connecting Bitcoin to evil works of man.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: hatshepsut93 on January 08, 2023, 11:11:56 PM
In Reality, Bitcoin is a digital gold and can actually do without exchnages.. they haven't represented Bitcoin from the very beginning, an example is that the first pizza bought with Bitcoin, had no exchange playing any role in that process.

Since the rise of Centralized Exchnages they have more harm and ruins... From MT. GOX, Quadriss and to thr latest FTX collapse, all they do is put investors in doubt about the continuation of investments in crypto projects, both life savings and retirement plans have been shattered.

And where would Bitcoin be right now without centralized exchanges? It's limited to 7 transactions per second, while exchanges can have hundreds of trades per second. Bitcoin market as we know it wouldn't exist without exchanges, and millions of people would never buy Bitcoin without the convenience of centralized exchanges. So the price today would likely be below $1,000 and we would have huge problems with transaction fees if all the trades happened on chain.

You can criticize centralized exchanges, but they will not go away until Bitcoin protocol can handle enough transactions to sustain all Bitcoin trading.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: qwertyup23 on January 08, 2023, 11:36:05 PM
I don't know where you read that news, but I've never heard of it, bitcoin and exchanges like currencies and banks. A failed bank doesn't mean the currency collapses and neither does bitcoin. I remember we also had a topic about the correlation between bitcoin and exchanges and honestly, bitcoin can work fine even without an exchange, so saying that the collapse of exchanges will drag bitcoin to collapse is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

I agree with the metaphor- exchanges were created in order to have some sort of convenience to the usage for the general public. To be honest, without these exchanges, the barrier of entry for a person to earn cryptocurrency can be difficult. That is why we can say that exchanges enable the public to at least earn BTC for the various wallets they offer.

Unfortunately, with convenience comes running the risk of getting scammed. Along with this, lots of exchanges have been numerously hacked and hundreds to thousands of BTCs were stolen in the process.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: sheenshane on January 08, 2023, 11:59:26 PM
In Reality, Bitcoin is a digital gold and can actually do without exchnages.. they haven't represented Bitcoin from the very beginning, an example is that the first pizza bought with Bitcoin, had no exchange playing any role in that process.

If there were no cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin, there wouldn't have been an exchange... Centralized Exchnages rose up after the creation of Bitcoin , are they any different from local banks? Making profits is the sole aim.
But to be honest, those centralized exchanges bring convenience for most people or Bitcoin users.
There's a benefit but the problem is that it's a mistake made by the centralized exchange that could also have an effect on Bitcoin's reputation and also of course on the price.  Exchange acted as a middleman per transaction when there was trade and to protect people against fraud and this centralized exchange was raised.

There's nothing wrong with me if we will use a centralized exchange as long as never store your coin on exchange for a long time.
They also contributed an awareness of Bitcoin among the people and criticizing failure doesn't make sense to me but instead, learn from this mistake and never leave your crypto to them.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Hispo on January 09, 2023, 12:17:47 AM
I had myself seen people (mostly uninformed people) on Twitter in the days of the collapse of FTX, they were talking about how Bitcoin failed and a lot of non-sense.
Saying that the collapse of an exchange is a Bitcoin failure; would be equivalent to say the bankruptcy of a bank is the failure of FIAT, and we all know that nobody would think that way if bank went out of business tomorrow.

It is just plain ignorance about Bitcoin, in my opinion.

I assume most of the users on this forum are informed enough, I don't fear that kind of cheap FUD to affect people who is already part of our community.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Fundamentals Of on January 09, 2023, 02:34:20 AM
This seems to be a confusion not just to many ordinary people but even among the leaders in congress who investigated the case of FTX. Sometimes it is easy to generalize crypto companies, crypto applications, even other cryptocurrencies as Bitcoin. They are not.

If Bitcoin is being doubted because FTX failed, then they haven't understood a thing about Bitcoin. This must also be the generalization of some members of congress who failed to understand that centralized exchanges like FTX isn't Bitcoin, doesn't represent Bitcoin. In fact, they are the opposite of Bitcoin.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: fuguebtc on January 09, 2023, 02:52:03 AM
I don't know where you read that news, but I've never heard of it, bitcoin and exchanges like currencies and banks. A failed bank doesn't mean the currency collapses and neither does bitcoin. I remember we also had a topic about the correlation between bitcoin and exchanges and honestly, bitcoin can work fine even without an exchange, so saying that the collapse of exchanges will drag bitcoin to collapse is the dumbest statement I've ever heard.

I see you didn't take your time reading throughout the whole text there, I'll advice you take your time already to read it.

The faluire of centralized exchange has never been and will never be the downfall of Bitcoin.
It was good to hear and read from users during the FTX collapse saying they handled the entire situations gently despite majority of them  getting bankrupt by Fxt. I would be so disrespectful of me to call you a poor reader so I won't do that.

I mean, where do you read those news? Who spread those false rumors? I didn't say you said those things.



You're correct that bitcoin can function without exchanges, but traders and investors cannot really do their thing without exchanges. Bitcoin is only dragged on the issue because it's what's being traded on the exchanges, and it's mainly the target of hacks. Bitcoin doesn't share any of these faults and insecurities of exchanges, but it may seem like it because the price of bitcoin afterwards is what's getting affected unfortunately.

Yes, the people who need the exchange are us, not bitcoin, exchanges are extremely important to the market and investors like us. Without them, we would have a lot of difficulties with our financial activities. Like fiat money and banks, although we don't like them because they are centralized or lose value over time. But in the end, they are still our ultimate goal, without fiat our lives would come to a standstill.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: davis196 on January 09, 2023, 07:04:28 AM
Quote
Re: The Failure of Exchanges can never be that of Bitcoin.

This statement is valid and has been repeated multiple times on the forum. Repeating it one more time doesn't make it more valid. ;D
It's true that the crypto exchanges exist mostly because of the altcoins, not because of Bitcoin. The original purpose of the crypto exchanges was to be some sort of "financial casinos", where the traders by and sell various "shiny objects", like altcoins, shitcoins, tokens, etc.
The crypto market was crazy speculative and the traders were expecting insane profits out of pump&dump schemes or they were waiting for some altcoin to become "the new Bitcoin".
I'm still a Bitcoin maximalist and I still think that the crypto world doesn't need altcoins and crypto exchanges.
 


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: QueenVera on January 09, 2023, 11:00:33 AM
The bottom line of this all is that the failure of Centralized Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin which after every bear market has been tested, the cycle continues, gather sats around and be patient for the bull.

The failure of centralized exchange only prove that centralized system aren't they way to go if the industry want to go far. Instead of we fighting for adoption through us giving up what makes the industry unique (which is it been decentralized) then to hell with their adoption.
We can achieve adoption through peer to peer, it just might take longer to achieve but we can wait. The world isn't ending tomorrow and we have lots of time to build and strength the industry.
Who knows maybe the government are the ones sponsoring this centralized exchange to strengthen their fight against Bitcoin as all this centralized exchange do is to sell our data to the government so they can monitor our every move.
Bitcoin can do without the centralized exchange and the fastest they all fail the sooner the community will realized they didn't really need them. Now this exchangs are making people think the industry can't do without them meanwhile that's false.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: tbct_mt2 on January 09, 2023, 11:06:57 AM
The failure of centralized exchange only prove that centralized system aren't they way to go if the industry want to go far. Instead of we fighting for adoption through us giving up what makes the industry unique (which is it been decentralized) then to hell with their adoption.
Exchanges are so scam especially centralized exchanges but they have contributions to cryptocurrency ecosystem. There are scammers with decentralized exchanges too. Project teams can rug pulls on decentralized exchanges and people like projects that are listed on big centralized exchanges. They have more belief in CEX listed projects than only DEX listed projects.

Quote
We can achieve adoption through peer to peer, it just might take longer to achieve but we can wait. The world isn't ending tomorrow and we have lots of time to build and strength the industry.
It is future but CEX and DEX will grow together and people will use both CEX and DEX.

Quote
Who knows maybe the government are the ones sponsoring this centralized exchange to strengthen their fight against Bitcoin as all this centralized exchange do is to sell our data to the government so they can monitor our every move.
Governments receive tax from centralized exchanges and maybe lobby things from CEX teams too.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Crypt0Gore on January 09, 2023, 01:55:44 PM
Let's not forget that few coins are not listed on centralized exchanges till today and they do so well in this crypto market, look at HEX for example, as successful as this coin is it never get listed on those cex big exchanges .
Bitcoin will do so fine without any centralised exchanges and in fact it feels more at home on Decentralised exchanges, Bitcoin was never created to be under any centralized power as we know it.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Yatsan on January 09, 2023, 04:06:28 PM
People are just fond of correlating things which are not even in line with one another. Unfortunately, the reaction affects the industry which contributes to the market downfall. Some investors are still afraid to engage at the present with crypto investment in fear that exchangers will cause additional risks with their assets without realizig that from the past years, this is only one of the rare instance wherein an exchange became negligent with their fund. People are disregarding that there are responsible and useful exchangers to move their assets with whether centralized or decentralized ones.
This seems to be a confusion not just to many ordinary people but even among the leaders in congress who investigated the case of FTX. Sometimes it is easy to generalize crypto companies, crypto applications, even other cryptocurrencies as Bitcoin. They are not.

If Bitcoin is being doubted because FTX failed, then they haven't understood a thing about Bitcoin. This must also be the generalization of some members of congress who failed to understand that centralized exchanges like FTX isn't Bitcoin, doesn't represent Bitcoin. In fact, they are the opposite of Bitcoin.
I doubt with the 'opposite' it is more of a product being used in a platform. The platform is exchanger while the product is Bitcoin. But that's indeed true, generalization has never done good to any industry; it just makes the situation worse.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: molsewid on January 09, 2023, 04:55:52 PM
I have read, heard close discussions, rumours and rumoured misconceptions and misunderstanding about Bitcoin as it relates with Exchanges.

As we all are aware, the ussge if centralized exchange defeats the whole idea of Bitcoin and perhaps the reason why it was created by Satoshi Nakamoto which is decentralization and self custody. Regardless of how people speak condescendingly to friends and families about backing off from investing in Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies during the recent FTX collapse.

A bit furious about it summon myself to make this up, that the failure of an exchange can and will never be the failure of Bitcoin.
Satoshi Nakamoto who I believed mined the highest number of Bitcoin has not 1% of those Bitcoin holding's on any of those popular exchanges. That should be enough for every or any sensible human out there to mimick and imitate. I consider it pure cowardice to think that if an exchange fails that Bitcoin will fail, not even the level of crypto scams will crash it nor lead it to stunt growth and adoption. Jim Cramer has been such a stupid influencer pushing people to exit investment in crypto and also to panic sell which is wrong as he said that months behind. A dialogue with people who have seen worst in the bear market and exchange collapse will have you disciplined and leaving exchanges for good, buying the dip in the process as it also an opportunity to accumulate more satoshis.
Below are something's exchange do;

In Reality, Bitcoin is a digital gold and can actually do without exchnages.. they haven't represented Bitcoin from the very beginning, an example is that the first pizza bought with Bitcoin, had no exchange playing any role in that process.

If there were no cryptocurrencies especially Bitcoin, there wouldn't have been an exchange... Centralized Exchnages rose up after the creation of Bitcoin , are they any different from local banks? Making profits is the sole aim.

Since the rise of Centralized Exchnages they have more harm and ruins... From MT. GOX, Quadriss and to thr latest FTX collapse, all they do is put investors in doubt about the continuation of investments in crypto projects, both life savings and retirement plans have been shattered.

The bottom line of this all is that the failure of Centralized Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin which after every bear market has been tested, the cycle continues, gather sats around and be patient for the bull.
I remember last December, I heard someone talks about the fall of FTX, he associate FTX to the entire bitcoin and crypto market. I'm just upset that people only knew FTX because it has been hype by many influential people if I'm not mistaken a local game content creator here in our country promoted that website non stop in his channel and that was the time I first heard FTX but I did not try to use that since I don't like exchanges that is being promoted by someone just like a popular coin gets hyped and then gone after a bit.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Wiwo on January 09, 2023, 05:11:20 PM
Criticizing Bitcoin/crypto because of a centralized exchange failure has always been an idiotic criticism in the first place; always voiced out by ignorant people on social media. Those empty cans have always been the most vocal.
Empty vessels make the loudest noise, Bitcoin have no correlation with centralized exchange so the situation in any exchange shouldn't be a remark on bitcoin, infact just as the negative impact of those centralized exchanges on bitcoin ideology is more higher than it impact on investors.
Let's not forget that few coins are not listed on centralized exchanges till today and they do so well in this crypto market, look at HEX for example, as successful as this coin is it never get listed on those cex big exchanges .
Bitcoin will do so fine without any centralised exchanges and in fact, it feels more at home on Decentralised exchanges, Bitcoin was never created to be under any centralized power as we know it.
Are you kidding me, why should you mention HEX coin in this kind of conversation HEX is not a project that should be mentioned for any good discussion because HEX coin is nothing but just a pump-and-dump coin that has no future and we shouldn't relate such coin to Bitcoin for whatever reason.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: ShowOff on January 09, 2023, 05:58:48 PM
There's nothing wrong with me if we will use a centralized exchange as long as never store your coin on exchange for a long time.
They also contributed an awareness of Bitcoin among the people and criticizing failure doesn't make sense to me but instead, learn from this mistake and never leave your crypto to them.
You are right, centralized exchanges are supposed to be used as intermediaries when a trader wants to convert his assets into bitcoin or fiat or some other crypto. Centralized exchange is certainly not a secure storage wallet, but people will still use it as a storage because they trust the reputation of the exchange. People have to learn from past mistakes, so regardless of the risks they also have to take responsibility for their decisions.

Criticizing exchange failures seems fair because people expect their assets to be safe no matter what, but nothing is risk free even if the exchange is well known and reputable. So if we have considered the risks, then we also have to know what the worst consequences will be.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Iroh on January 09, 2023, 09:49:28 PM
I think exchanges play a big role in the general use of bitcoin as people could easily buy and trade in their coins for fiat at anytime. With the constant advertisements on the social media space, it has spread crypto and bitcoin far and wide, somewhat creating some sort of awareness.
While it has its uses, we shouldn’t forget also that they’re in it as a business. They claim to safely hold your coins for you so you don’t have to do so yourself. And bitcoin is there encouraging users on the need for self custody of your funds.

Bitcoin has risen above all the misconceptions and falsehoods. The demise of an exchange cannot be the demise of bitcoin.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: AmoreJaz on January 09, 2023, 09:56:16 PM
I think exchanges play a big role in the general use of bitcoin as people could easily buy and trade in their coins for fiat at anytime. With the constant advertisements on the social media space, it has spread crypto and bitcoin far and wide, somewhat creating some sort of awareness.
While it has its uses, we shouldn’t forget also that they’re in it as a business. They claim to safely hold your coins for you so you don’t have to do so yourself. And bitcoin is there encouraging users on the need for self custody of your funds.

Bitcoin has risen above all the misconceptions and falsehoods. The demise of an exchange cannot be the demise of bitcoin.

 those with ill intent of creating business out of bitcoin can easily go down hard but btc itself won't go down. those people who have different approach towards btc for sure don't find time to educate themselves about btc itself. because simple reading will give them enough knowledge to understand the true nature of btc.
ignorance is the main reason why many people are still connecting the failure of certain crypto businesses to btc. if they wont educate themselves with facts, they won't know the truth.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Fundamentals Of on January 10, 2023, 01:25:53 AM
This seems to be a confusion not just to many ordinary people but even among the leaders in congress who investigated the case of FTX. Sometimes it is easy to generalize crypto companies, crypto applications, even other cryptocurrencies as Bitcoin. They are not.

If Bitcoin is being doubted because FTX failed, then they haven't understood a thing about Bitcoin. This must also be the generalization of some members of congress who failed to understand that centralized exchanges like FTX isn't Bitcoin, doesn't represent Bitcoin. In fact, they are the opposite of Bitcoin.
I doubt with the 'opposite' it is more of a product being used in a platform. The platform is exchanger while the product is Bitcoin. But that's indeed true, generalization has never done good to any industry; it just makes the situation worse.

Bitcoin is about decentralization. FTX and the rest of the most popular exchanges right now are centralized. That's opposite. Bitcoin is about full control and ownership. FTX is about having somebody else hold the funds in your behalf. That's another opposite. Bitcoin respects privacy. FTX asks for personal information and even stores them in a way that could possibly be hacked or leaked. Bitcoin is basically peer to peer. FTX is a third party. So FTX is the complete opposite of Bitcoin. People shouldn't confuse FTX with Bitcoin because they are far from the same.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: cloirecrom on January 10, 2023, 11:35:59 AM
it never is. it affect btc price . but not btc fault
in the firstplace bitcoin is great  cause it's decentralized, removing third party, and  need of trust.
and people think centralizing it and putting it on third party based on trust is good idea lol


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Kelvinid on January 10, 2023, 11:59:44 AM
Let's not forget that few coins are not listed on centralized exchanges till today and they do so well in this crypto market, look at HEX for example, as successful as this coin is it never get listed on those cex big exchanges .
Bitcoin will do so fine without any centralised exchanges and in fact it feels more at home on Decentralised exchanges, Bitcoin was never created to be under any centralized power as we know it.
Not even that because it is very simple that fail of exchanges whether it was centralized or decentralized certainly won't affect the future of Bitcoin. But it was very unfortunate that many people are already make bad opinions and negative views about Bitcoin and spread them on social media. However, this will never affect the trust of those who believe in the potentiality of the project, and they remain calm and positive despite those assumptions.

I heard some people then say it was a failed project, yet they never use it in the first place.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Nrcewker on January 10, 2023, 12:20:19 PM
Exchanges have truly impacted the reputation of Bitcoin. I mean these exchanges perform such cheap scams and people say Bitcoins are illegal and scams. FTX scam was really astonishing for many of us, but still for this, many people showed fear and sold their Bitcoins. And this lead to the price fall of the coin. But yes as said, the failure of Exchanges can never affect Bitcoins, as when the price went down, it created opportunity for the people to buy more coins in the cheap price. This will eventually lead to increase in Bitcoin’s price. Let’s hope for the best and see what happens next.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: KingsDen on January 10, 2023, 12:28:57 PM
As banks are to fiat money so also exchanges are to bitcoin.
There is no doubt that exchanges are important parts of the bitcoin and cryptocurrency community.

However, we do see and hear the news where banks are rubbed or they bankrupt. It therefore will not translate that the fiat money is scam or has failed.
That is the same situation with exchanges and bitcoin. If one exchange fails, it doesn't mean bitcoin has failed.
Although, since I know bitcoin it has never been a friend of the media and speculators.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Woodie on January 10, 2023, 01:12:57 PM
The connection between Bitcoin/cryptos performance and an exchanges role will always be debatable but we do agree that these exchanges (Dex/Cex) are the platforms that act as the gateway to the real world, anybody trying to get their hands on some crypto for the first time are more likely to come here as these are the most common channels...Which is why if these are hacked or customers aren't served in their best interest word goes round about this... which creates fear and people sell their crypto assets and wait till the dust settles before jumping back into the markets.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Luzin on January 10, 2023, 02:10:21 PM
As banks are to fiat money so also exchanges are to bitcoin.
There is no doubt that exchanges are important parts of the bitcoin and cryptocurrency community.

However, we do see and hear the news where banks are rubbed or they bankrupt. It therefore will not translate that the fiat money is scam or has failed.
That is the same situation with exchanges and bitcoin. If one exchange fails, it doesn't mean bitcoin has failed.
Although, since I know bitcoin it has never been a friend of the media and speculators.

It is hard to imagine if the exchange does not exist. Perhaps Bitcoin will simply become a transaction tool. Perhaps Bitcoin will not have the value it is today and they will not develop into a commodity.
Even I know bitcoin because of trading, and profit. Regarding the failure of the Exchange that has already occurred, it is because they have a weakness in storing assets in the form of valuable crypto. So far Bitcoin is created and has value and he is the main target. So they don't look at the downsides of Bitcoin but its storage or exchange. CMIIW


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Plaguedeath on January 10, 2023, 02:33:52 PM
It is hard to imagine if the exchange does not exist. Perhaps Bitcoin will simply become a transaction tool. Perhaps Bitcoin will not have the value it is today and they will not develop into a commodity.
If you say like that, then Satoshi vision is already achieved since he's think Bitcoin is used as a transaction tool or currency rather than a commodity. Most people prefer to use Bitcoin as a commodity since Bitcoin has high volatility and the price is constantly increase during the 4 year cycle.

I would say Bitcoin wouldn't become a currency if there's no exchange accept Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is still not get controlled by one party and due to low adoption, I don't think people will want to use it as a currency since they worried if Bitcoin has no value.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: BALIK on January 10, 2023, 02:59:04 PM
It is hard to imagine if the exchange does not exist. Perhaps Bitcoin will simply become a transaction tool. Perhaps Bitcoin will not have the value it is today and they will not develop into a commodity.
If you say like that, then Satoshi vision is already achieved since he's think Bitcoin is used as a transaction tool or currency rather than a commodity. Most people prefer to use Bitcoin as a commodity since Bitcoin has high volatility and the price is constantly increase during the 4 year cycle.

I would say Bitcoin wouldn't become a currency if there's no exchange accept Bitcoin, because Bitcoin is still not get controlled by one party and due to low adoption, I don't think people will want to use it as a currency since they worried if Bitcoin has no value.

Expecting bitcoin to become a currency can be said to be increasingly remote because most of us are looking at it as a commodity, an investment to make a profit. I'm pretty sure people will be disappointed and lose interest in it if it stops being volatile. What we want is not a decentralized, anonymous currency, what we want is bitcoin profits.

What the OP said is not wrong, the failure of the exchanges would never have caused bitcoin to failure, but Luzin is not wrong, bitcoin would not have reached the high value it is today without exchanges. Like it or not, exchange is essential for the market.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: so98nn on January 10, 2023, 03:22:07 PM
Ahh, we don’t combine these two and should not even care about it. Considering the fact that we lost billions of dollars from the exchangers, we should keep that matter as it is and to the door steps of exchangers. It’s just making the bitcoin look worse because whenever some Hack happens, they will say bitcoin were stolen, this much worth bitcoin lost, this much worth bitcoins are in the possession etc etc. These are the statements we would hear in the negative way and make it go down. Hope so we don’t make it obvious to connect the two all the time.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: harapan on January 10, 2023, 03:58:40 PM
Quote
Re: The Failure of Exchanges can never be that of Bitcoin.

This statement is valid and has been repeated multiple times on the forum. Repeating it one more time doesn't make it more valid. ;D
It's true that the crypto exchanges exist mostly because of the altcoins, not because of Bitcoin. The original purpose of the crypto exchanges was to be some sort of "financial casinos", where the traders by and sell various "shiny objects", like altcoins, shitcoins, tokens, etc.
The crypto market was crazy speculative and the traders were expecting insane profits out of pump&dump schemes or they were waiting for some altcoin to become "the new Bitcoin".
I'm still a Bitcoin maximalist and I still think that the crypto world doesn't need altcoins and crypto exchanges.
 

It's good to get you all corrections, the learning continues it's just that people are a bit stubborn and most of this needs to be raised once in a while. For longer visions and for long term holding of Bitcoin, using exchanges will be the biggest mistake one should take.

Your correct, bitcoin main aim is all for self custody and not to be runned by exchanges especially when they are big amount of bitcoins.

Wonderful to see that your bullish on bitcoin, it's all little while we stay discipline and expect the next bull


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Wiwo on January 10, 2023, 07:02:11 PM
Quote
Re: The Failure of Exchanges can never be that of Bitcoin.

This statement is valid and has been repeated multiple times on the forum. Repeating it one more time doesn't make it more valid. ;D
It's true that the crypto exchanges exist mostly because of the altcoins, not because of Bitcoin. The original purpose of the crypto exchanges was to be some sort of "financial casinos", where the traders by and sell various "shiny objects", like altcoins, shitcoins, tokens, etc.
The crypto market was crazy speculative and the traders were expecting insane profits out of pump&dump schemes or they were waiting for some altcoin to become "the new Bitcoin".
I'm still a Bitcoin maximalist and I still think that the crypto world doesn't need altcoins and crypto exchanges.
 

It's good to get you all corrections, the learning continues it's just that people are a bit stubborn and most of this needs to be raised once in a while. For longer visions and for long term holding of Bitcoin, using exchanges will be the biggest mistake one should take.

Your correct, bitcoin main aim is all for self custody and not to be runned by exchanges especially when they are big amount of bitcoins.

Wonderful to see that your bullish on bitcoin, it's all little while we stay discipline and expect the next bull
Exchange to a certain extent provides a very essential service as it relate to the exchange of coins, and a marketplace for cryptocurrencies to be exchanged from one to the other and also a linkage between buyer and seller so the exchange is not only important for altcoin but also important for bitcoin also. Bitcoin could not have gotten the level of exposure and easy access if exchanges are not in operation and at least exchanges make purchases of bitcoin and other altcoins very simple and easy for newbies.  But the bad aspect will be when the exchange is used as storage for your funds because you can lose everything since you don't have control over the assets.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Falconer on January 10, 2023, 07:26:52 PM
It's good to get you all corrections, the learning continues it's just that people are a bit stubborn and most of this needs to be raised once in a while. For longer visions and for long term holding of Bitcoin, using exchanges will be the biggest mistake one should take.

Your correct, bitcoin main aim is all for self custody and not to be runned by exchanges especially when they are big amount of bitcoins.
Exchanges are just intermediary who are actually backing bitcoin to get high buying interest so far. Without a highly reputable exchange, one would not easily spend $1 million buying bitcoin without any escorts or anything to make transactions secure. Then the exchange acts as a bridge between the buyer and the seller, used only as necessary if it is not allowed to be used as a storage.

Fund security in the long term is the responsibility of each fund owner, even though we exclaim here about how the best security solution is, we are always defeated by their inability to realize and understand the risks.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Fivestar4everMVP on January 10, 2023, 08:24:02 PM
The bottom line of this all is that the failure of Centralized Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin which after every bear market has been tested, the cycle continues, gather sats around and be patient for the bull.
You are absolutely correct mate, the failure of exchanges is not the failure of bitcoin, unfortunately, not many people know this, most especially the newbies, we have so many of them in the space currently, who are naïve, ready to believe any negative things told them about bitcoin relating to failed exchanges, i its misconception we all must fight where ever we see it.

Before this exchanges emerged, Bitcoin has been standing and was doing well in its growth and adoption, and even when all the centralized exchanged are no more, Bitcoin will still be standing, I really wonder when I see or hear people call Bitcoin scam because an exchange collapsed and they lost their money,  really naïve way of thinking.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: Luzin on January 11, 2023, 01:46:01 AM
If you say like that, then Satoshi vision is already achieved since he's think Bitcoin is used as a transaction tool or currency rather than a commodity. Most people prefer to use Bitcoin as a commodity since Bitcoin has high volatility and the price is constantly increase during the 4 year cycle.


If it is only used as a transaction tool? What about the value, the determination of the value will not work if there is no exchange. Where does bitcoin have value from? Imagine if at the moment 10,000 bitcoins are just the same as the price of 1 pizza.

Perhaps its adoption as a currency will also be increasingly difficult because there is no trust. So far, I as a crypto supporter have certainly been happy. It is not banned and recognized as an asset it is already remarkable. If it becomes a currency and its value is stable, perhaps it will also reduce interest in Bitcoin. So I think that during this time Bitcoin can develop is the existence of an exchange market, a rise in confidence.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: wxa7115 on January 11, 2023, 02:27:37 AM
It's good to get you all corrections, the learning continues it's just that people are a bit stubborn and most of this needs to be raised once in a while. For longer visions and for long term holding of Bitcoin, using exchanges will be the biggest mistake one should take.

Your correct, bitcoin main aim is all for self custody and not to be runned by exchanges especially when they are big amount of bitcoins.
Exchanges are just intermediary who are actually backing bitcoin to get high buying interest so far. Without a highly reputable exchange, one would not easily spend $1 million buying bitcoin without any escorts or anything to make transactions secure. Then the exchange acts as a bridge between the buyer and the seller, used only as necessary if it is not allowed to be used as a storage.

Fund security in the long term is the responsibility of each fund owner, even though we exclaim here about how the best security solution is, we are always defeated by their inability to realize and understand the risks.
That is the main problem we have with the people making use of exchanges, while exchanging bitcoin directly for products and services requires no middleman, exchanging bitcoin for fiat will without a doubt require one.

However instead of just using exchanges as the middleman necessary to perform the conversion of our coins or our fiat, people are using exchanges as wallets, making them no different than banks, and we have seen many examples through history of banks collapsing and taking their customers with them, so it is not surprising the same is happening here.


Title: Re: The Failure of Exchnages can never be that of Bitcoin.
Post by: CryptoBuds on January 11, 2023, 02:33:23 AM
Quote
Re: The Failure of Exchanges can never be that of Bitcoin.

This statement is valid and has been repeated multiple times on the forum. Repeating it one more time doesn't make it more valid. ;D
It's true that the crypto exchanges exist mostly because of the altcoins, not because of Bitcoin. The original purpose of the crypto exchanges was to be some sort of "financial casinos", where the traders by and sell various "shiny objects", like altcoins, shitcoins, tokens, etc.
The crypto market was crazy speculative and the traders were expecting insane profits out of pump&dump schemes or they were waiting for some altcoin to become "the new Bitcoin".
I'm still a Bitcoin maximalist and I still think that the crypto world doesn't need altcoins and crypto exchanges.
 

It's good to get you all corrections, the learning continues it's just that people are a bit stubborn and most of this needs to be raised once in a while. For longer visions and for long term holding of Bitcoin, using exchanges will be the biggest mistake one should take.

Your correct, bitcoin main aim is all for self custody and not to be runned by exchanges especially when they are big amount of bitcoins.

Wonderful to see that your bullish on bitcoin, it's all little while we stay discipline and expect the next bull
Exchange to a certain extent provides a very essential service as it relate to the exchange of coins, and a marketplace for cryptocurrencies to be exchanged from one to the other and also a linkage between buyer and seller so the exchange is not only important for altcoin but also important for bitcoin also. Bitcoin could not have gotten the level of exposure and easy access if exchanges are not in operation and at least exchanges make purchases of bitcoin and other altcoins very simple and easy for newbies.  But the bad aspect will be when the exchange is used as storage for your funds because you can lose everything since you don't have control over the assets.

As long as bitcoin is not the world currency, then exchange will always be necessary for us, exchange plays an important role in the development of bitcoin. We should not deny the benefits of exchanges just because some are misbehaving.
We will not have any problems as long as we use exchanges wisely and don't abuse them. If we only use them to exchange between bitcoin and altcoin, bitcoin and fiat, and absolutely do not use the exchange to store assets. I believe everything will be fine.