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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: paramind22 on January 08, 2023, 04:43:15 PM



Title: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 08, 2023, 04:43:15 PM
There were not enough people who cared about keeping the project alive.  Few involved had enough deep pockets for that, and they selfishly out of need for paying their bills, crashed the price.  There needed to be things like airdrops and public education and they were too naive to understand concepts like that. 

What could have been a great way of generating more cypto for one's money and remaining decentralized was far too beyond the lack of virtue in this space. 


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Yogee on January 08, 2023, 05:07:45 PM
There were not enough people who cared about keeping the project alive.
It's either take profit or wait until the coin becomes worthless because the devs runaway is the common narrative in today's crypto space. There may have been a lot of supporters of new projects back then until they got fed up with the slow development or lost trust with the devs that abandon what they started.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Jackl87 on January 08, 2023, 05:47:06 PM
There were not enough people who cared about keeping the project alive.  Few involved had enough deep pockets for that, and they selfishly out of need for paying their bills, crashed the price.  There needed to be things like airdrops and public education and they were too naive to understand concepts like that. 
What could have been a great way of generating more cypto for one's money and remaining decentralized was far too beyond the lack of virtue in this space. 

Well i think that is just how the crypto space nowadays is. There are literally hundreds of new crypto projects appearing each and every day and therefore it is pretty likely that also very good projects with a team of motivated and ethical developers are getting overlooked by the people and never really take off. All those stupid meme-coins that are still getting launched are also a big reason for that.
I don't really think though, that an airdorp would solve those problems. In the end those airdrops only attract airdrop hunters and those people are literally the one of the worst (right after the scammers) people in the crypto space. They have dozens or hundreds of accounts, join an airdrop and dump as soon as the token is tradeable. So i don't think an airdrop ever helped a project.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 08, 2023, 06:05:44 PM
Most of these coins are 5 years old or older, some even ten years old (Hobonickels).  

I am not sure of the current state of coins PinkCoin and BlackCoin.  

A lot of the smaller cap coins were not on the stakingrewards site.  Stronghands has an active team but the POS coin I believe is only on one exchange welcome to the USA (cratex.io) which often gives an error (perhaps based on my machine, but it would be a common enough error for most to not be able to log in there).



Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Lantind on January 08, 2023, 06:08:51 PM
There were not enough people who cared about keeping the project alive.  Few involved had enough deep pockets for that, and they selfishly out of need for paying their bills, crashed the price.  There needed to be things like airdrops and public education and they were too naive to understand concepts like that. 

What could have been a great way of generating more cypto for one's money and remaining decentralized was far too beyond the lack of virtue in this space. 
In accordance with the concept of decentralized crypto, crypto developers also appear to be decentralized, they are not controlled, they can freely leave the crypto they develop, so this will make crypto worthless. New projects are currently very difficult to succeed, because investors have lost confidence in new projects being developed at this time. Currently, we only see projects that already have the potential to survive, and have been circulating on the stock exchange even though the price is still low. We buy and hold for the long term.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Silberman on January 08, 2023, 06:08:53 PM
There were not enough people who cared about keeping the project alive.  Few involved had enough deep pockets for that, and they selfishly out of need for paying their bills, crashed the price.  There needed to be things like airdrops and public education and they were too naive to understand concepts like that. 
What could have been a great way of generating more cypto for one's money and remaining decentralized was far too beyond the lack of virtue in this space. 

Well i think that is just how the crypto space nowadays is. There are literally hundreds of new crypto projects appearing each and every day and therefore it is pretty likely that also very good projects with a team of motivated and ethical developers are getting overlooked by the people and never really take off. All those stupid meme-coins that are still getting launched are also a big reason for that.
I don't really think though, that an airdorp would solve those problems. In the end those airdrops only attract airdrop hunters and those people are literally the one of the worst (right after the scammers) people in the crypto space. They have dozens or hundreds of accounts, join an airdrop and dump as soon as the token is tradeable. So i don't think an airdrop ever helped a project.
And that is the sad state of this market when it comes to new altcoins, unlike some users which are completely against altcoins and do not see the need for them to exist, I think altcoins are not inherently bad, as they can tests all kind of functions and features that bitcoin could not as its status of a store of value and the money that has been invested in it already would not allow for the developers to make such experiments, but when new altcoins are released by greedy developers and scammers and the majority of those coins have no original thought behind them then this is eroding the interest in them really quickly.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 08, 2023, 06:28:43 PM
If the only need is for decentralized control of your money and staking to make more from your investment, you don't need to keep developing it.

The last compilation of my ParaMind Brainstorming program for Windows was in 2003 and people are still buying that program to this day. 

The program with much of the crypto space is that few people had any experience in the software industry and were too ignorant to see people that did have it.  There was almost zero marketing of the real projects, probably out of fear from the hype that the fake projects created in them.




Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: dothebeats on January 08, 2023, 07:19:41 PM
You can't expect people to be virtuous in a money-making space. It's a dog-eat-dog world out here and everyone is just trying to make money, mostly at the expense of others. Be it low marketcap staking coins or huge cryptos, there will always be deep pockets that will try and use their position and capacity to make more money whenever possible. The reason they're in the crypto scene is because they want to make more money, why would they care about other people that they don't know about anyway?

One way of making money in crypto is by being selfish and emotionless. If you push your virtues 100% of the time in this space, you'll just lose money in the long run.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: BIT-BENDER on January 08, 2023, 08:03:49 PM
The problem I have with small cap project is from the project themselves, let start with how genuine this small cap project are, some of this type of project started of with ambitions of duping people, some started with the ambition of actually becoming popular by promising lies.

How can some one who invested in a project small cap or not not care about the project, the most problems with this project are from the team, what foundations did they establish this sort of project? And how are they keeping it running.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Xal0lex on January 08, 2023, 08:05:06 PM
There were not enough people who cared about keeping the project alive.  Few involved had enough deep pockets for that, and they selfishly out of need for paying their bills, crashed the price.  There needed to be things like airdrops and public education and they were too naive to understand concepts like that. 

What could have been a great way of generating more cypto for one's money and remaining decentralized was far too beyond the lack of virtue in this space. 

The main, and main, problem with most projects is that people come there for the earnings, and they are not interested in the project itself and its concept. They do not want to go into the details of the white paper, they do not want to evaluate the characteristics of the project, they only want to see the price increase in order to sell their coins as quickly as possible and leave the project. It is this kind of action that has ruined so many young and promising projects.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: vv181 on January 08, 2023, 08:29:54 PM
What can we expect from a vague and obscure project? most of the small-cap coins are worthless since they did not solve any real word concern or even give an improvement toward the cryptocurrencies ecosystem. A project that has solid causes will always prolong its continuity since the community have a sense of something worth it within the idea of the project.

If it is simply abandoned then it is just one of the many shitcoin or worthless tokens all along. It is hard to find a gem within an ecosystem where scamming people have an easy barrier to entry, it's like separating the wheat from the chaff.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 08, 2023, 08:37:44 PM
These 7 or more coins having working explorers, a few people with coins interested in keeping them going, and most are on an exchange.

With new team members, what is the value of this?? 

I'm sure interested people would get an airdrop.



Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: passwordnow on January 08, 2023, 09:42:27 PM
These 7 or more coins having working explorers, a few people with coins interested in keeping them going, and most are on an exchange.

With new team members, what is the value of this?? 

I'm sure interested people would get an airdrop.
Those that are interested people will only be interested in the airdrop and they'll be optimistic that hopefully, it will have a good value when it's on the market.
But to think that they'll be interested in the project and be optimistic about it, I doubt that people are like that nowadays. Most that are interested in a project, they're on those projects that have been in the market for so long and with solid plans on how they're going to keep it.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 08, 2023, 10:04:31 PM
Airdrop would have no value.  The only value is if they keep staking maybe in a year that the coin would be worth 10x as much, being on an exchange with an explorer, and having a team, old coin with website, etc. 

One idea for a whitepaper for any of these coins is for stakers to send some coins to an address that would be distrubted to the smallest wallets that kept staking.  The Explorer could show that and for how long they were in existence, how much they bought, etc.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Scripture on January 08, 2023, 11:52:29 PM
Airdrop would have no value.  The only value is if they keep staking maybe in a year that the coin would be worth 10x as much, being on an exchange with an explorer, and having a team, old coin with website, etc. 
Some airdrop last year made a huge price increase with their value, and many hunters was able to get their reward at a huge profit. If this strategy doesn’t work, then the developer should look for alternatives and as a hunter its also our responsibility to understand the project before promoting it, if there’s still a problem it will be hard for that token to pump.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 09, 2023, 12:00:14 AM
The only idea I saw behind all these coins was a stable asset that kept compounding by staking.  The only person who saw the value of contributing to this was obviously me and maybe a few others who watched the value of their coins go down.  I didn't lose hardly anything as most of these were microcaps and I sold them to buy DOGE, bitcoin and more valuable staking coins as I went along.  I did lose some because of an arbitrage situation at an exchange I didn't study carefully enough and one of the coins that was guaranteed to last in value by the team (hobonickels) in fact plummeting from 10 sat buy orders to no buy orders.  


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: GreatArkansas on January 09, 2023, 01:48:23 AM
There were not enough people who cared about keeping the project alive.  Few involved had enough deep pockets for that, and they selfishly out of need for paying their bills, crashed the price.  There needed to be things like airdrops and public education and they were too naive to understand concepts like that.
(....)
This is one of many reasons why investing too much in low market caps is risky; their market cap. But there are also some people who are fans of hunting gems, and most of their targets are projects with small marketcap.
And you will also notice that most of these projects are only good at the beginning, so the hype is lot on early days but later on, they started to fade and slowly losing and become scam.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: OcTradism on January 09, 2023, 02:07:50 AM
With altcoins and staking, you have to lock your coins and there is risk for permanent loss from staking.

Staking and receiving rewards from staking can increase your total coins but will at the end those coins have higher value for you than what you spend initially?

Most of time staking means loss. A longer you stake, a bigger loss you will have.

I learned it from Masternode + Proof of Stake, DeFi 2.0 a lot. Staking more, locking your coins longer, getting bigger loss.

[DeFi Tutorial] What is Impermanent Loss? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279577)


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 09, 2023, 02:53:06 AM
With altcoins and staking, you have to lock your coins and there is risk for permanent loss from staking.

Staking and receiving rewards from staking can increase your total coins but will at the end those coins have higher value for you than what you spend initially?

Most of time staking means loss. A longer you stake, a bigger loss you will have.

I learned it from Masternode + Proof of Stake, DeFi 2.0 a lot. Staking more, locking your coins longer, getting bigger loss.

[DeFi Tutorial] What is Impermanent Loss? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5279577)

When you have the wallet on your machine, it distributes the blockchain and you get rewarded for that.  You don't have to lock any coins away.  At any times you can spend your coins.  There may be some very minor variations with some wallets, but you could probably free those coins up with a wallet command line function. 


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: yazher on January 09, 2023, 08:02:53 AM
It's either take profit or wait until the coin becomes worthless because the devs runaway is the common narrative in today's crypto space. There may have been a lot of supporters of new projects back then until they got fed up with the slow development or lost trust with the devs that abandon what they started.
This is most likely the case and the worse part scenario is they are working really hard to keep their investors by telling them sweet lies and promises which will not really be going to happen. That's why when you see their sales are crashing and they will continue to tell you it's normal, then consider not listening to them anymore because if it's really a normal thing, others that are like that in the past already recovered from the same scenario but in reality they didn't and their developers have already run out from them.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Silberman on January 11, 2023, 05:21:51 PM
It's either take profit or wait until the coin becomes worthless because the devs runaway is the common narrative in today's crypto space. There may have been a lot of supporters of new projects back then until they got fed up with the slow development or lost trust with the devs that abandon what they started.
This is most likely the case and the worse part scenario is they are working really hard to keep their investors by telling them sweet lies and promises which will not really be going to happen. That's why when you see their sales are crashing and they will continue to tell you it's normal, then consider not listening to them anymore because if it's really a normal thing, others that are like that in the past already recovered from the same scenario but in reality they didn't and their developers have already run out from them.
Besides with the exception of the starting stage in which the developers decide which kind of supply they want their coin to have and at what rate it is going to be generated the developers have no business trying to somehow control how their coin moves, and while some may like this kind of thing this kind of control can only be achieved in highly centralized coins, which by they way they run contrary to the ideals of this market and as such they will crash anyway given enough time.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: so98nn on January 11, 2023, 05:41:17 PM
Yeah the small caps. The owners will always get huge share of the staking and thus control the whole dam economy of the coin. They will claim that everything is decentralized but when it comes to the staking power through Pos, everything is exactly opposite of that. I mean it is same riddle as that of attacking the bitcoin hash network with more than 51% of hashing power and be able to change every transaction or have control over the same. This is easier in the PoS because your stakes are decided based on how much coins are in the possession. Ideally, owners would go and posses more than enough to control the whole thing. I think its definitely easy way to lure peeps into fakism. Stay alert.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: AmoreJaz on January 11, 2023, 07:03:22 PM
Yeah the small caps. The owners will always get huge share of the staking and thus control the whole dam economy of the coin. They will claim that everything is decentralized but when it comes to the staking power through Pos, everything is exactly opposite of that. I mean it is same riddle as that of attacking the bitcoin hash network with more than 51% of hashing power and be able to change every transaction or have control over the same. This is easier in the PoS because your stakes are decided based on how much coins are in the possession. Ideally, owners would go and posses more than enough to control the whole thing. I think its definitely easy way to lure peeps into fakism. Stay alert.

just accept the fact that owners of this type of project are only after about filling their pockets. nothing more. once they got what they need for this project, they will abandon it without a doubt. they don't care if the price in the trading market is declining sharp, so long they got their share before it plunges in the market.
what do you think are their other motives in creating such small projects with no concrete plans, other than milking out the project?


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 11, 2023, 08:17:46 PM
The truth is somewhere between the two positions.  There should be more enlightened decent percentage staking coins but there needs to be things put in place so that highest wallets are distributed.  Giving that happening, if the team only consists of lazy people of only limited self-interest which is more than often the case in humanity, they probably won't do much more than bring down the morale of the project in various ways (lack of communication is one way).

A lot of healthy coins now have a very small POS percentage (1337 and Chess), but below 2% makes it barely worth running the wallet unless there is some marketing plan so the value can grow.  


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: Yatsan on January 11, 2023, 10:42:20 PM
This is the unfortunate reality. Most of the newly released projects are only for short term both with small and large market caps unless the utility of the token itself would survive long term development which could keep it alive. But regarding tokens, most of the investors would let go for a short period of time to take their profit. Given that their assumption to a project would be downwards, they are simply saving themselves from loss and that makes it normal.Staking won't be a help as well; those who would follow the given period of holding the token, will more likely be squeezed in the middle as the market price of a particular tokens continues to fall. And this I guess is the idea which pushes them to sell early. A matter of those who'd sell early will get a better exist and those who'd go late would be losing more.


Title: Re: Basically All Small Cap Staking Coins Had this problem
Post by: paramind22 on January 11, 2023, 11:53:19 PM
I think it would be fun to have an alternative legal marketplace funded by these staking coins.   

I tried to put together another thread on this general topic of keeping this coins alive here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5431291.msg61492636#msg61492636