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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: dkbit98 on January 18, 2023, 04:06:23 PM



Title: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Spread the Word
Post by: dkbit98 on January 18, 2023, 04:06:23 PM
Governments and countries around the world are working hard to implement CBDC as fast as they can and they are getting serious about it.
I won't name all individual examples but I will post one website who is keeping track of all worldwide news and status for most countries.
There is currently WEF forum in Davos and they are advertising CBDC currencies that are going to be protected by Interpol, and in same time they announce catastrophic cyber attack, removal of cash payments, and concern about Bitcoin ::)

One website for tracking CBDC projects is called Cbdctracker and it is showing world map of countries with more information:

https://i.imgur.com/aXAx5Tc.jpg
 https://cbdctracker.org/

One more CBDC tracker posted by tbct_mt2:
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/

What can you do about this?
You can write your local politicians, complain, call them, visit them and demand from them to stop working on CBDC crap.
I also found interesting project called @NoCBDC that created cool stickers that are pro Bitcoin and anti-CBDC in the same time.
You can print out this stickers, share them in your local areas, send them to friends and spread the word while we have time, or you will wake up in nightmare scenario one day.

Bitcoin vs CBDC - What should digital money look like?
https://bitcoin.rocks/bitcoin-vs-cbdc

Print or make your own stickers and follow @NoCBDC on twitter:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rr5jea5n35fqybl/%40NOCBDC%20sticker%20sheet.pdf?dl=0

https://i.imgur.com/pQxdn01.jpg


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: tbct_mt2 on January 18, 2023, 04:16:08 PM
CBDC tracker from AtlanticCouncil.org (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/)

CBDCs no matter what technology governments want to and actually use, they will try to convince their citizens that they are applying blockchain for their CBDCs. It can be true or a lie and citizens will know about that. The interesting point is even if governments lie, they still promote blockchain technology.

CBDCs will contribute to blockchain adoption in generally by exposing more people to that technology.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: un_rank on January 18, 2023, 04:29:45 PM
You can print out this stickers, share them in your local areas, send them to friends and spread the word while we have time, or you will wake up in nightmare scenario one day.
Do you really think this would be effective? The desire of governments to control our lives is obvious in many countries and anyone who is yet to come to that realization would not do so cause of some sticker.

We cannot boo away CBDCs or sign petitions against it, we can only avoid it and stick to decentralized medium of exchange on the blockchain. And hope others would follow suit.

- Jay -


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: teosanru on January 18, 2023, 04:42:19 PM
Haha trust me printing stickers and resisting is not going to be effective at all. This way is exactly similar to governments shouting against Cryptos telling that they are a scam they are risky they are fraudulent. CBDC is just their answer to tackle Cryptos and trust me it will never affect Crypto market in any way. Only thing it will effect is fiat. People are into crypto either for it's value appreciation or for it's decentralised and confidential mechanism and none of them can be provided by a CBDC. So chill out CBDC cannot harm Cryptos.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: uneng on January 18, 2023, 04:49:18 PM
What can you do about this?
You can write your local politicians, complain, call them, visit them and demand from them to stop working on CBDC crap.
IU also found interesting project called @NoCBDC that created cool stickers that are pro Bitcoin and anti-CBDC in the same time.
You can print out this stickers, share them in your local areas, send them to friends and spread the word while we have time, or you will wake up in nightmare scenario one day.
Maybe this approach can work in civilized countries, but not on the generalized corrupt ones, that is the case where I live and as I see, CBDC is already in Proof of Concept stage here. Politicians rely on the ignorance of the citizens to pass laws they want which will favour them and their groups on long run, without any kind of uprisings from the people. The conscious minority who protests is just going to be ignored by politicians, since they don't really their votes to be elected. If the three powers (executive, legislative and judiciary) want to approve CBDC, they are going to do this here without any setbacks.

I hope in your countries you have more luck fighting it back.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: dkbit98 on January 18, 2023, 04:56:12 PM
CBDC tracker from AtlanticCouncil.org (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/)
Thanks for this link, I added it to my original post.

Kudos for the effort, but I think that ship has sailed. All the mainstream politicians have been bought already and will do what their masters tell them to do. This total control thing has been set in motion long time ago and I don't think that anything/anyone can stop it, expect maybe nuclear holocaust that would reset the things.
Maybe this is true, but I certainly won't give up easy and follow all their crazy future scenarios, because they need 100% of people to participate for this crap to work.
Their plan won't work even if 10% of people reject this change and make up their own economy outside the narrative of WEF and their operators, maybe with Bitcoin, produce, salt, food, and everything else people used to trade before.
I never had negative frame of mind despite all the dark scenarios and prognosis, but people are wrong if think they will be able to use Bitcoin normally after this creeps introduce CBDC to all countries.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 18, 2023, 04:57:53 PM
i do laugh some times

politician and big banker businesses go to meetings and organise lobbying efforts to push other politicians to write things into law

someone in bitcoin community tells people to "fight" ... by wearing a sticky

to truly want to keep paper/polymer notes in circulation. needs to be done via petitions where by people in a politicians constituency(region/states) receives enough signatures that enough of the people they represent do not want the removal of paper/polymer notes. sways the politician not to push for paper bank notes future removal
thus if enough politicians see that they wont push so hard(or risk no being voted in again next election day), then it can stop such activities going forward.

along with a lobbying effort by big players that also want to see paper/polymer notes stay in circulation to fund a campaign to keep paper/polymer nots in circulation.

however.. this push FOR CBDC is not citizen led its IMF and BIS pushed. along with those big businesses of WEF
(in short: big bankers/payment services)

bankers hate having to handle paper notes. they hate how visa/mastercard are taking nice fee's leaving to pay the costs of cash handling.. the bankers want to earn the fee's and not left with the costs of handling paper money

you are not going to win a fight over their motives.. with stickers


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: bittraffic on January 18, 2023, 05:08:51 PM
Haha trust me printing stickers and resisting is not going to be effective at all. This way is exactly similar to governments shouting against Cryptos telling that they are a scam they are risky they are fraudulent. CBDC is just their answer to tackle Cryptos and trust me it will never affect Crypto market in any way. Only thing it will effect is fiat. People are into crypto either for it's value appreciation or for it's decentralised and confidential mechanism and none of them can be provided by a CBDC. So chill out CBDC cannot harm Cryptos.

It's about spreading the word about CBDC. This is an awareness campaign to make people learn and be warned about CBDC so they know it's all about surveillance.  CBDC may really come and no one can stop it but people will learn that there is an option to use which is BTC, I think the sticker should be introducing BTC as well.

So far there are only 6 countries that have pilot CBDC. No country yet fully launched CBDC.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: LoyceMobile on January 18, 2023, 05:17:16 PM
Governments and countries around the world are working hard to implement CBDC as fast as they can and they are getting serious about it.
ECB is indeed working "as fast as they can", which means they've spent years debating whether or not they'll do it, and as far as I know they're currently in the "investigation" phase which will take years again.

It's kinda funny, central banks are dinosaurs and know they have to do something, before they're too late and nobody wants them anymore. They also don't want to get rid of all their rich banker friends, so there's still a role for traditional bank accounts in their plans. And they want to add the ultimate control to their token.

But none of it matters. It's just another form of inflationary fiat money, controlled by unelected people. Same old, same old.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 18, 2023, 05:19:46 PM
It's about spreading the word about CBDC. This is an awareness campaign to make people learn and be warned about CBDC so they know it's all about surveillance

but have YOU done the work of researching and learning about CBDC to then proclaim yourself an advocate for teaching others?

i say this becasue i bothered to read alot of the CBDC white papers and prototype code and plans.

and reading their plans vs what some people spout out.. . what people spout out sounds more tinfoil than factual

CBDC is simply the same as digital fiat today.
from a oversight/monitoring prospective
(politicians dont watch peoples transactions, nor do regulators. it gets delegated to the commercial payment services to police their customers and report the suspect users)
CBDC is the same concept

from a KYC
(value above X requires certain level of kyc)
CBDC is much the same

and yes that includes china's  e-yuan


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: mendace on January 18, 2023, 08:22:53 PM
It has long been known that CBDCs are the only tool to counter Bitcoin that dear governments have in hand.  Unfortunately for them Bitcoin is a real strength and they don't have the power to govern it therefore and they have to create their own currency to feel free but to take away freedom.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: dansus021 on January 19, 2023, 01:21:35 AM
first of all the tracker was good how's make this website  :D and pretty much interactive you can click the country and see the news


CBDCs no matter what technology governments want to and actually use, they will try to convince their citizens that they are applying blockchain for their CBDCs. It can be true or a lie and citizens will know about that. The interesting point is even if governments lie, they still promote blockchain technology.

CBDCs will contribute to blockchain adoption in generally by exposing more people to that technology.

and this also true that CBDC will most likely are gonna using private chain so its pretty much same with e-wallet app like venmo or Paypal.

but the good news is people that hear word "cbdc" will most likely it has connection with bitcoin


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: bittraffic on January 19, 2023, 01:24:42 AM
It's about spreading the word about CBDC. This is an awareness campaign to make people learn and be warned about CBDC so they know it's all about surveillance

but have YOU done the work of researching and learning about CBDC to then proclaim yourself an advocate for teaching others?

i say this becasue i bothered to read alot of the CBDC white papers and prototype code and plans.

and reading their plans vs what some people spout out.. . what people spout out sounds more tinfoil than factual

CBDC is simply the same as digital fiat today.
from a oversight/monitoring prospective
(politicians dont watch peoples transactions, nor do regulators. it gets delegated to the commercial payment services to police their customers and report the suspect users)
CBDC is the same concept

from a KYC
(value above X requires certain level of kyc)
CBDC is much the same

and yes that includes china's  e-yuan

It's not a tinfoil hat theory anymore. If centralized exchanges can block, or suspend our account because our funds come from a Russian exchange, the government can do the same.

Politicians don't watch transactions. Banks don't watch transactions either but once you are part of a protesters group, your transactions might. Today, just being somebody like Jordan Peterson will get them in trouble and punished financially.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 19, 2023, 05:41:20 AM
It's not a tinfoil hat theory anymore. If centralized exchanges can block, or suspend our account because our funds come from a Russian exchange, the government can do the same.

Politicians don't watch transactions. Banks don't watch transactions either but once you are part of a protesters group, your transactions might. Today, just being somebody like Jordan Peterson will get them in trouble and punished financially.

your "might" is the tin foil i was talking about
if your level 2-3 wallet(kyc'd) is frozen(for all the standard fiat reasons allowed today to freeze assets) you can still use level 1 wallet(no kyc, though lower spending limit) in a CBDC scenario

heck. even people on bail awaiting trial for curency fraud/theft are allowed some form of spending ability to survive on

all in all CBDC has the same policy as fiat(the good the bad and the worse). just a different data architecture of wallets/accounts

out of 8 billion people.. you choose jordan peterson as your influencer example. pfft you might as well have said trump or alex jones(same brotherhood of nuts)
you could have said that greta girl having funds limited due to being anti-gov protestor, and thus you would sound less tinfoiler


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: pooya87 on January 19, 2023, 06:04:47 AM
CBDC is just the world banksters following a hype trying to keep their relevance in a world that has a decentralized currency called bitcoin. I don't see the point in it and I see even less point in printing stickers and bitching about it on social media because it won't change a thing.

I can only see a possible silver lining which is these centralized altcoins have the potential of replacing centralized shitcoins called stablecoins and reduce the risk they impose on the cryptocurrency market.

Politicians don't watch transactions. Banks don't watch transactions either
I have 3 letters for you: N+S+A :D


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 19, 2023, 06:25:37 AM
Politicians don't watch transactions. Banks don't watch transactions either
I have 3 letters for you: N+S+A :D

i have 3 letters for you
MSB
money service businesses
its CEX/banks that watch their customer and report only the juicy/suspect data up to authorities

authorities are not proactive, they are reactive
sec only react after they get a SAR or complaint or after a bankruptcy/audit filing
DOJ(courts) only give out asset seizure orders after being handed a claim from authorities
MSB only freeze/lock an account after a court order

it actually is worth while doing research, it might help you understand the realities of matters. rather than the social tinfoil brigade opinion

sidenote: shady malicious MSB's not following rules can internally lock funds off without reasons(not via court order).. but thats called a scam site


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: rat03gopoh on January 19, 2023, 06:37:47 AM
There are several target groups for this campaign,
  • pro government: they'll of course be the first to accept.
  • don't care: don't support and don't reject, but have their own choice.
  • do not know at all: they don't understand anything, only obey the policies (ordinary people).
So, let me be in the "don't care" group. In the end (said pessimistically) because of the policy, CBDC will be implemented and replace the existing circulation of physical money. Bitcoin will forever be the alternative means of payment (WP-according), and with all modifications, fiat will remain the primary means of payment.

Good luck with this campaign.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: Tony116 on January 19, 2023, 08:25:47 AM
Bitcoin is not just a currency, a payment method, an asset, and a store of assets, while CBDC is no different from fiat, it is just a digital version of Fiat. So I think it will never be able to impact or be able to compete with bitcoin. What the government wanted when creating a CBDC was that they tried to control us more, not make it compete with or prevent the development of bitcoin. How can a centralized thing compete with a decentralized one?


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: Leviathan.007 on January 19, 2023, 09:13:58 AM
Talking about CBDCs, there are many people who think the CBDCs are competitors for bitcoin and the CBDCs are created to race against bitcoin and the governments just created the CBDCs to make bitcoin fade out while in reality if you think about it, CBDCs are actually just like the old traditional fiat currencies and there is not any difference between these two, no matter what kind of technology they use in the central banks for the CBDCs. Because in the end, the CBDCs are not comparable with bitcoin because these are centralized and get controlled by the central banks and the governments.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 19, 2023, 09:40:14 AM
Talking about CBDCs, there are many people who think the CBDCs are competitors for bitcoin and the CBDCs are created to race against bitcoin and the governments just created the CBDCs to make bitcoin fade out while in reality if you think about it, CBDCs are actually just like the old traditional fiat currencies and there is not any difference between these two, no matter what kind of technology they use in the central banks for the CBDCs. Because in the end, the CBDCs are not comparable with bitcoin because these are centralized and get controlled by the central banks and the governments.

Central banks and commercial banks work on an old system of 48hour settlements.. they have for decades. which meant they had to rely on visa/mastercard debit systems for 'live payments'

CBDC is more of a threat to remove visa/mastercard debit cards and make them no longer required. to bring that system back into the banking hold instead of visa making billions a year on debit fee's

apart from that CBDC from a user/citizen point of view is the same as using a bank account card today
still reliant on a payment service to do the funds moving on behalf of users, still needing to obide by their user agreement bank policies. etc same rules apply.. just quicker settlements "in-house"

the BIS which manages central bank international services. already have banks asking them to be allowed to hoard upto 5% of their collateral in the form of decentralised assets like bitcoin and a higher % of stable coins by 2025
the BIS has compromised with a 2% bitcoin allowance and an unknown(by me, i havnt bothered caring for stablecoin research) but higher %for stable coins
so its not like they are trying to kill cryptocurrencies

its more of modernising the bank data architecture and remove the need for visa debits for everyday purchases

there will still be kyc-less account types (much the same as todays virtual visa/giftcards) though these accounts have a lower limit of "to low to care about tax evasion/terrorism threat" $1k-$3k max balance allowed(depending on what countries decisions are)


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: kryptqnick on January 19, 2023, 04:00:01 PM
I haven't seen this website before, thanks for sharing this! It's really cool that there's a map, but also links to news articles that show the evidence based on which a country has a certain colour on the map. I checked a couple of countries, and all seems to be accurate to me. What I want to add, though, that experimenting or intending to experiment with a CBDC doesn't mean going against Bitcoin. For example, Ukraine does plan to work on a fiat CBDC in the future, but it's also already quite crypto-friendly and is planning to set up pro-crypto regulations along with potentially launching a CBDC (for more on the topic, see this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5350907)). These aren't seen as competitors, they don't have to be.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: cr1776 on January 19, 2023, 04:13:19 PM
Authoritarians and totalitarians the world over want power and control and CBDCs give it to them.  They are nothing special from the tech side, just a database, but for the power-hungry politicians, they are a dream: a centralized, censorable, controlled database of every transaction.

Owning bitcoin is one way to protect yourself.  Getting others to do so will help them eventually.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: hatshepsut93 on January 19, 2023, 06:02:44 PM
It doesn't matter at what stage CBDC is, it's not going to get adopted, because it's an inferior product to banks and electronic payment systems. CBDC when it's released will be plagued with problems like high fees, bugs, outages, poor customer service, data leaks and so on. Why would people want to switch to it? Add here the distrust that most people around the world feel towards their government.

And CBDC is not a direct competitor of Bitcoin. It's a direct competitor of privately-owned fiat payment networks.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: DooMAD on January 19, 2023, 06:26:12 PM
what people spout out sounds more tinfoil than factual

And just so I've got it straight... when YOU come up with crackpot conspiracy theories, it's because you've "run scenarios" and when other people raise legitimate concerns about government overreach, it's because "they haven't done enough research"?  And at all points in the history of ever, you've always done more research and run more scenarios than every other living creature on the face of the planet.  Is that about the sum of it?

It couldn't possibly be that you're an obnoxious, contrarian asshat who doesn't form conclusions in the same way that rational and mentally-stable people form conclusions?   ::)



Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 19, 2023, 07:26:20 PM
DooMAD, stay off the drugs..
when the people you see that you like that (metaphorically: go to your house party) are the ones that agree with you. does not mean you are right... because, guess what.  they are just as high and paranoid as you..
emphasis: it just means you are high and paranoid along with them

try to sober up.
take control of your paranoia and see if it is an actual threat made against you in your home. or a thing you have in your head scaring you daily in your home
base your opinions on data, facts, laws, code. real events.. not opinions of people you like because they sound like you

and meet people outside of your house party. in the fresh air outside of your narrow view of the world. take the time to look for real information. rather then youtubing/tweet searching things that fit your paranoias that confirm your paranoia is justified

..
yes fiat has flaws, pitfalls, and is not perfect, and thats why bitcoin was invented to be something different. to be better and hedge against fiat, and thus hedge against CBDC

..
oh and if you think you do make rational opinions based on fact.
show me the block data that supports your version of bitcoin history.. ive asked you for years to back your crap up.. still waiting for your charts of block flags and lacks of forks and natural transitions of bitcoin code evolution without sponsored roadmap plans..
..
as for how monetary policy works. show me the financial laws that support your version. where you think currency AKA bank notes are private property and where privacy of currency is law

currency is not the same as property. there is no right of privacy in regards to currency.
now go check it out read a book, but first .. GET SOBER
maybe then you can have a rational thought.

all i ever hear you cry is "franky is wrong because he hurts my buddies opinion"

i can back my opinions up by blockdata and research of actual source material.

have you even bothered to look at a layout of any CBDC. or did you just come to this topic just to poke at me with yet another

"franky is wrong because he hurts my buddies opinion"

main difference(apart from opinion) between me and you.. im not here to get my ass kissed and recruit idiots
i prefer to correct idiots. and yes im frank about it literally.


the day that bitcoin lost its "private property: privacy rights" is the day mainstreamers of government lobby helped get bitcoin declared a "currency" in ~2014.. and so allowed in the jurisdiction of the bank secrecy act that delegates regulated payment services to police their customers

if you can understand how currency law works. you can start to see the big picture of both fiat, cbdc and how bitcoin is being treated differently since ~2014


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: pooya87 on January 20, 2023, 08:01:43 AM
it actually is worth while doing research, it might help you understand the realities of matters. rather than the social tinfoil brigade opinion
Have you been living under a rock or something? :D
Take your own advice and do some research into all the top secret documents that have been leaked over the years, some that were declassified, etc. to understand how surveillance is working 24/7 in real world. Specially by military organization that I mentioned above.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 20, 2023, 09:43:15 AM
it actually is worth while doing research, it might help you understand the realities of matters. rather than the social tinfoil brigade opinion
Have you been living under a rock or something? :D
Take your own advice and do some research into all the top secret documents that have been leaked over the years, some that were declassified, etc. to understand how surveillance is working 24/7 in real world. Specially by military organization that I mentioned above.

i see you want to hide under a rock
how about come to the realisation that politicians dont sit at computers "watching you" they are just self employed contractors living by 4 year work contracts, trying to get paid to do as little as possible. they love to delegate work out to others.
where in america due to capitalism that is mainly private businesses doing it for profits.
where the agencies you speak of are private businesses with their own business policies and their own property rights as business owners of the products they have patents on and policies to protect them, where they lobby the politician via bribery into giving those private businesses powers.

so when you shout "government totalitarianism"  when reality is a democracy of 1 vote per 4 year society, combined with capitalism
and yes its private businesses who are the ones "watching you"
then you might be able to see how they get to do what they do. by reading the laws and business policies
regulators are run by ex-bankers not politicians.
banks and payment services are a business
prisons are a business.
its all about the money business.

i see government not as some citizen owned property. but as .. basically a gym (a service that gets people all hot and sweaty and using up their energy)
we are gym members, paying our gym membership fees(taxes) to then get to use the gyms services and products, we dont own said services or products. but as members we get to vote on who the gym managers and trainers are every 4 years when they are contractually told to allow a management change. and that is all we get as our sense of control
unless we can understand their gym policies of how to petition the gym to change the rules for our benefit,, which 99% of members dont realise

fiat money is not citizen property. its gym property. their patent, their product they print and then subcontract out that accountant to a business(commercial banks and payment services)

when you start to see them as businesses using their property rights to set policy on their product(s) you then start to see how fiat is not "yours" you are just the bearer, given a promise. where the promise may never be met but people trust it thus lulled into a sense of security to trust the banks, whilst they have the power to control their product and police it and police those who bear their product

ans slowly due to "main streaming" like defining bitcoin as "currency" we are giving them power to control certain businesses related to bitcoin


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: LDL on January 20, 2023, 10:44:21 AM
CBDC is a digital currency system approved by central banks and governments. It started its journey in 2017-18 but is widely discussed and analyzed in 2022. Although several issues have worked behind it, including stable coin UST crashed, FTX scandal these two events are largely responsible for creating people's interest in CBCD. One thing to keep in mind is that Central Banks and Governments will never focus on cryptocurrencies because Governments and Central Banks know very well that Cryptocurrencies cannot be controlled by governments or central banks. And the central bank and the government will always introduce some system in which the government and the central bank have control.  If CBCD is widely approved and accepted, Bitcoin and cryptocurrency will change drastically. Some are calling CBCD the Bitcoin killer.



Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: BlackHatCoiner on January 20, 2023, 12:17:07 PM
yes fiat has flaws, pitfalls, and is not perfect, and thats why bitcoin was invented to be something different. to be better and hedge against fiat, and thus hedge against CBDC
That wasn't the reason it was invented. Ever.

fiat money is not citizen property. its gym property
Your analogy is flawed. I don't know where you live (I'm still questioning UK, because you don't know English), but politicians here don't get to choose the quantity of money, because we're a deeply in debt guinea pig of the EU, and thus have very little effect.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 20, 2023, 01:45:11 PM
yes fiat has flaws, pitfalls, and is not perfect, and thats why bitcoin was invented to be something different. to be better and hedge against fiat, and thus hedge against CBDC
That wasn't the reason it was invented. Ever.

fiat money is not citizen property. its gym property
Your analogy is flawed. I don't know where you live (I'm still questioning UK, because you don't know English), but politicians here don't get to choose the quantity of money, because we're a deeply in debt guinea pig of the EU, and thus have very little effect.

yet you and your chums are the ones shouting "government"
funny now you are shying away from saying politicians

heres the thing. in america for example. TODAY the bankers are lobbying politicians to make a decision in bankers favour for the "debt ceiling"(how much new minted money the treasury can print for bankers going forward)

as for the english language
its more broader than your narrow (american) translator
if you dont know the terms of "dog and bone" to mean phone.
if you dont know the terms of "knickers" to mean female underpants
if you dont know the terms of "flip flop" to mean inconsistent/capricious
if you dont know the terms of "cry baby" "fangirl" to mean antagonist others based on idolising an influencer

then you dont know enough english

if you think english is about where a full stop is or a capital letter or an apostrophe is. . you are confusing english with grammar

in a discussion, in english spoken discussion.. people do not actually pronounce and say coma, full stop.
so if you are crying about grammar. know this one thing.
this is a discussion forum not a grammar paper being graded

english is not restricted to the narrow view of needing to be a A+ graded grammar paper to be called "english"
maybe if you come to england one day and visit places like hackney, leicester, manchester and newcastle. it may give you a broader scope of how english really is

i am not here to present my thoughts in a americanised grammar perfect narrative so that your translator can function

i already hate having to convert pounds to dollars whenever talking about bitcoin prices. i already hate having to use american examples due to how many people here only understand american. but i do play ball to a certain extent, just to save time


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: cryptosize on January 20, 2023, 01:46:27 PM
Control Beyond Dreams Confirmed 8)


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 20, 2023, 01:53:10 PM
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Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: dkbit98 on January 21, 2023, 09:36:44 PM
What I want to add, though, that experimenting or intending to experiment with a CBDC doesn't mean going against Bitcoin. For example, Ukraine does plan to work on a fiat CBDC in the future, but it's also already quite crypto-friendly and is planning to set up pro-crypto regulations along with potentially launching a CBDC
Oh please don't be so naive, they are allowing us to play with Bitcoin for people to get used on digital currencies, wallets and qr codes, but once they move to CBDC globally they can easily make Bitcoin illegal, and send people to prison if they use it.
Most of the genpop don't care about anything else than convenience and cbdc will be very convenient for sure, just like coupons with expiration date :P

CBDC is just the world banksters following a hype trying to keep their relevance in a world that has a decentralized currency called bitcoin. I don't see the point in it and I see even less point in printing stickers and bitching about it on social media because it won't change a thing.
I didn't say printing stickers will change anything, but this helps in spreading word and people may actually do research about CBDC instead of blindly accepting any mainstream narrative.
I am sure they will present CBDC as life saving tool after they pump this current global fiat economy system to explosion in near future.
People is China are so brainwashed they will be the first to accept this, and they will do it gladly, and people who like this should move to China right now to experience this ''benefits''.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 21, 2023, 09:57:39 PM
What I want to add, though, that experimenting or intending to experiment with a CBDC doesn't mean going against Bitcoin. For example, Ukraine does plan to work on a fiat CBDC in the future, but it's also already quite crypto-friendly and is planning to set up pro-crypto regulations along with potentially launching a CBDC
Oh please don't be so naive, they are allowing us to play with Bitcoin for people to get used on digital currencies, wallets and qr codes, but once they move to CBDC globally they can easily make Bitcoin illegal,

dont be so sure on that either. the central banks are actually negotiating with the BIS to be allowed to hold some bitcoin for central bank trading internally(their banking sector wholesale markets between each other) by 2025
https://www.pymnts.com/cryptocurrency/2022/bis-sets-limits-on-bank-exposure-to-crypto-markets/

yep central banks couldnt by BIS policy hoard or trade bitcoin internally before due to BIS terms.. but they are pushing the BIS to allow it.. initially CBDC wanted 5% buffer space of possible collateral in bitcoin, the BIS is settling to accept about 2%(things may change by 202 when the draft becomes final policy)

it really does help to do some research from source locations like from the central bank international settlement governors that set central bank policy

you can also learn alot about types of CBDC from reading other stuff from the BIS including their m-bridge (the IMF of CBDC)


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: serjent05 on January 21, 2023, 10:23:38 PM
Haha trust me printing stickers and resisting is not going to be effective at all. This way is exactly similar to governments shouting against Cryptos telling that they are a scam they are risky they are fraudulent. CBDC is just their answer to tackle Cryptos and trust me it will never affect Crypto market in any way. Only thing it will effect is fiat. People are into crypto either for it's value appreciation or for it's decentralised and confidential mechanism and none of them can be provided by a CBDC. So chill out CBDC cannot harm Cryptos.

Also, CBDC is the government solution for cryptocurrency volatility.  The government is made aware of the importance of Blockchain but they cannot simply accept any cryptocurrency because they don't have control over it so they create CBDC.  The government also noticed the high volatility and non-regulation of cryptocurrency which they think is a negative thing so they created CBDC to fully control the network and spy on the wealth of their constituents.

The sad part about CBDC is it is closed source, and private making us unable to verify the codes they implemented on the application that will run their CBDCs.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: DooMAD on January 21, 2023, 10:52:50 PM
The introduction of CBDCs will be all about 'nudge theory (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/nudge-theory)' and social manipulation.  They'll take a very soft approach with it initially, but will gradually make it ubiquitous.  By design, it will be easy to get onboard, but getting out again will be considerably more challenging.  And when they have enough people ensnared, that's when they'll tighten the noose.  

Once you have an entire populace reliant on a system which holds the potential for total surveillance and control, it's only a matter of time before someone in authority tries to corrupt that system to further their own goals or agendas.  

It's vital people are made aware of the potential for abuse with this.  It's a dystopian nightmare-in-the-making.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: pooya87 on January 22, 2023, 05:14:08 AM
I am sure they will present CBDC as life saving tool after they pump this current global fiat economy system to explosion in near future.
Your problem is that you think CBDC and the current "global fiat system" are separate from each other. But they are the same exact thing. Besides, they've been printing fiat in digital form for many years now and only a small percentage of it is in cash form (there is no enough paper on earth to print all of it!). Whether it is called digital banking or CBDC is not going to change that.
As I said this is just a hype that banksters are following.

People is China are so brainwashed they will be the first to accept this, and they will do it gladly, and people who like this should move to China right now to experience this ''benefits''.
There is no difference between people in China and their level of brainwashedness and people elsewhere.
Have you forgotten how many people celebrated the day PayPal started selling bitcoin without even having any bitcoins to their dumb users while not letting anybody withdraw?
If PayPal, Bank of America, etc. suddenly revealed PP-coin tomorrow the same people will still be happy and buy that centralized altcoin. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: dkbit98 on January 23, 2023, 10:28:46 PM
Your problem is that you think CBDC and the current "global fiat system" are separate from each other. But they are the same exact thing. Besides, they've been printing fiat in digital form for many years now and only a small percentage of it is in cash form (there is no enough paper on earth to print all of it!). Whether it is called digital banking or CBDC is not going to change that.
As I said this is just a hype that banksters are following.
They are not the same because CBDC can only be implemented if cash is removed from use.
Second, CBDC will have expiration date like coupons, and they will be connected with digital ID, that is something we don't have currently.
I see that you don't know anything about CBDC so I suggest reading more before you are making comparions with current fiat monetary system or something else.

There is no difference between people in China and their level of brainwashedness and people elsewhere.
You probably never visited Chain and you don't know how things work there, but they are already functioning almost like obedient robots.
I know people who lived and worked in China, and there is a huge difference with people in the rest of the world, that is why they are testing ground for new stuff.

Have you forgotten how many people celebrated the day PayPal started selling bitcoin without even having any bitcoins to their dumb users while not letting anybody withdraw?
If PayPal, Bank of America, etc. suddenly revealed PP-coin tomorrow the same people will still be happy and buy that centralized altcoin. :)
I never celebrated that and I don't anyone anyone who celebrated PayPal started selling Bitcoin.

It's vital people are made aware of the potential for abuse with this.  It's a dystopian nightmare-in-the-making.
Yeah, but try to explain this to tik-tok generation :P


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 23, 2023, 11:17:19 PM
CBDC is the same policies as fiat. same delegated roles of financial institutions(commercial banks/payment services policing customers)
same suspect reporting same court order seizure system.. and yes that includes china's e-yuan

yep china has not nor is nor will be a "one wallet one app" system. unlike what certain people probably heard on their trump favouring news media
yep some of you are mind blown.. right? itsing to press the reply button that franky is wrong coz "fox news said"
well sorry to burst your nightmares..  china has never and is not preparing to be a one bank, one app system

it really does pay to do research away from social circles and certain media circles

and no there is not a "CBDC online balance expiry dates".. there is however,idea's /theories to include, as a backup monetary system.. a physical coupon as a backstop for remote locations with bad internet/electric to still allow people to trade offline.. during communication outages..

take canada's explanation
https://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/swp2021-67.pdf

in short those coupons will be smart cash. where if its not deposited back into an app after X months. its not declared lost. its just cancels the coupon validity and the value returns to the last known recipient, obviously giving people plenty of time to claim/mark the new recipient to refresh the expiry and keep the coupon in circulation



Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: DooMAD on January 24, 2023, 02:14:39 AM
CBDC is the same policies as fiat. same delegated roles of financial institutions(commercial banks/payment services policing customers)
same suspect reporting same court order seizure system.. and yes that includes china's e-yuan

AT THE MOMENT.

The thing about centralised programmable money is that someone can change the rules.  And obviously they're not going to do anything to make it look unappealing until everyone is onboarded and unable to escape.  That's when it will suddenly become the authoritarian's wet dream.  For those who don't avoid the trap, it'll be too late to do anything about it by that point. 


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: Fundamentals Of on January 24, 2023, 02:33:17 AM
I'm a little pessimistic about all these efforts to stop CBDC. I think CBDCs will have their time eventually and the cold cash era will come to an end. That's something that's bound to happen.

But I'm still in full support of this initiative. If only to let the leaders know that I'm against it and whatever it implies especially to our privacy. It may not stop them of course. After all, the leadership always has this tendency not to listen to the people, to create policies that are not based on the people's preference. At least I'm speaking out.

But regardless of the outcome of these efforts, I will continue to shift little by little to Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: GreatArkansas on January 24, 2023, 03:08:37 AM
Me,  I am not worried about Bitcoin here. I am worried here is most of the altcoins here, most of the altcoins right now are centralized. There is no threat for Bitcoin here as even if there will be CBDC, it's still fiat and it's still the opposite with Bitcoin, the inflation is still there. While Bitcoin is solving the problem that we have right now in our traditional finance.



Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 24, 2023, 03:42:16 AM
other things you will learn if people actually try to read things and research things from actual sources like BIS hyperledger

most CBDC are acting similar ways to mainnet+layer2.. because its the friggen banks and institutions that first buzzworded "layer 2" when they were doing hyperledger conventions/conferences inviting devs of crypto in to help them and the devs walked away with new words to start then sandbox testing in crypto(back in 2015 era)

also the BIS (bank of international settlements) is due to central bank demands allowing(proposed in draft) a 2% collateral holding of mainnet cryptos like eth/btc and a higher unset % of stables
meaning those central banks that use BIS will be lobbying government to not ban crypto
https://www.bis.org/bcbs/publ/d545.pdf


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: pooya87 on January 24, 2023, 10:38:07 AM
They are not the same because CBDC can only be implemented if cash is removed from use.
Second, CBDC will have expiration date like coupons, and they will be connected with digital ID, that is something we don't have currently.

I see that you don't know anything about CBDC so I suggest reading more before you are making comparions with current fiat monetary system or something else.
Well 99.9% of CBDCs are not even in development stage, they are just being "researched". So there isn't anything to read about and we can't really say what they'll be like or even if they will be created some day!

The small handful that were actually released are in a small scale testing phase and I have not seen any reliable source that confirms the 2 main characteristics you claim the CBDCs have in your post. If you have a reliable source like to Chinese central bank that says it has an expiration date or it must replace cash please post it here.

The two others that I know of didn't have the two conditions either. The Venezuelan one was more of a scam to raise funds and cover the budget deficit for the government experiencing hyper inflation.
The Iranian one that is released and is in testing phase also doesn't have any kind of expiration date. It also can not replace cash in Iran even if it wanted to.



Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: franky1 on January 24, 2023, 12:36:35 PM
They are not the same because CBDC can only be implemented if cash is removed from use.
Second, CBDC will have expiration date like coupons, and they will be connected with digital ID, that is something we don't have currently.

I see that you don't know anything about CBDC so I suggest reading more before you are making comparions with current fiat monetary system or something else.
Well 99.9% of CBDCs are not even in development stage,

so your saying there are 1000 countries in the world(facepalm) and only 1 CBDC in development (facepalm)
its more like 200 countries and about 20 that are in beta (thus 90% not in beta)
about 50 are in alpha and the rest are just whitepaper theory

maths, its great

but i do agree you and others should read more.. but.. ALSO make comparisons. see the variances, see the possible directions. dont be picky, explore the wide picture landscape


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: NotATether on January 24, 2023, 12:48:29 PM
We cannot boo away CBDCs or sign petitions against it, we can only avoid it and stick to decentralized medium of exchange on the blockchain. And hope others would follow suit.

It's safe to say that it will be a niche market at best as the vast majority of people will stick to their tried-and-tested credit cards / PayPal / CashApp / Venmo / Zelle and won't bother with some random government project even if that's what they want them to use, like your uncle ("what?") and your friends ("what?").

Nothing to worry about here. This strikes me as sort of an Occupy Wall Street - kinda thing.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: Findingnemo on January 24, 2023, 01:50:28 PM
Me,  I am not worried about Bitcoin here. I am worried here is most of the altcoins here, most of the altcoins right now are centralized. There is no threat for Bitcoin here as even if there will be CBDC, it's still fiat and it's still the opposite with Bitcoin, the inflation is still there. While Bitcoin is solving the problem that we have right now in our traditional finance.



Most altcoins are shit and centralized but they are backed by supply and demand whereas the CBDC just by nothing other than promise of central bank which is more vulnerable than owning something which has actual value.

I don't know how much accurate the world map is but countries like India, CHina and few others launched their CBDC but not pushing it too much for now among their citizen but sooner we can expect them to make such efforts.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Print your own stickers
Post by: Blawpaw on January 24, 2023, 06:28:52 PM
Governments and countries around the world are working hard to implement CBDC as fast as they can and they are getting serious about it.
I won't name all individual examples but I will post one website who is keeping track of all worldwide news and status for most countries.
There is currently WEF forum in Davos and they are advertising CBDC currencies that are going to be protected by Interpol, and in same time they announce catastrophic cyber attack, removal of cash payments, and concern about Bitcoin ::)

One website for tracking CBDC projects is called Cbdctracker and it is showing world map of countries with more information:

https://i.imgur.com/aXAx5Tc.jpg
 https://cbdctracker.org/

One more CBDC tracker posted by tbct_mt2:
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/cbdctracker/

What can you do about this?
You can write your local politicians, complain, call them, visit them and demand from them to stop working on CBDC crap.
I also found interesting project called @NoCBDC that created cool stickers that are pro Bitcoin and anti-CBDC in the same time.
You can print out this stickers, share them in your local areas, send them to friends and spread the word while we have time, or you will wake up in nightmare scenario one day.

Bitcoin vs CBDC - What should digital money look like?
https://bitcoin.rocks/bitcoin-vs-cbdc

Print or make your own stickers and follow @NoCBDC on twitter:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rr5jea5n35fqybl/%40NOCBDC%20sticker%20sheet.pdf?dl=0

https://i.imgur.com/pQxdn01.jpg

Off course that theWEF would be the most inetrested in implementing CBDCs. The WEF is humanity's worst enemy as they are trying to get everyone slave before 2030. CbDC are just a move for them to stay in control. All they want is to have their hands on everything. Remember what they want for you is "You will own nothing and you'll be happy" I guess this says it all. Fuck the WEF.


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC
Post by: dkbit98 on February 17, 2023, 03:52:37 PM
Is anyone following what is happening with Nigerian terrible experiment of removing all cash and introducing their own CBDC digital currency eNaira?
Demonstrations and riots are happening everywhere, people are pissed off and many banks and ATM machines are burned and destroyed.
I guess rulers want for people to have nothing and be happy

This planned CBDC virus is spreading fast, so we already have Japan announcing their own CBDC pilot program starting in April, similar time like Russia:
https://decrypt.co/121584/japan-announces-launch-new-cbdc-pilot-april

Similar thing is happening with central bank of the United Arab Emirates (UAE) that plans to release CBDC digital dirham:
https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2023/02/13/uae-plans-to-issue-a-cbdc-to-promote-digital-payments/

One European country Montenegro is working with Ripple on their digital currency pilot project:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/montenegro-s-central-bank-teams-up-with-ripple-on-digital-currency-pilot-project


Title: Re: Bitcoin vs CBDC - Spread the Word
Post by: Lida93 on February 17, 2023, 06:37:10 PM
For a community of people that understands the enormous benefits of financial freedom that's  open to them under the decentralized system of crypto currency such a people don't need to be persuaded or preached to about crypto with flyers and posters. Taking up such process will only seem like a global battle between cryptocurrency and CBDC and they can jump on the opportunity to spread false signal using their centralized authority to get the unsuspecting public to conceive that we're promoting some shit scam especially in a third world where crypto is yet to be notice and understood with it's decentralized benefits. The bitter truth is that no matter how much efforts the CBDC puts in to make it's citizens in their country to accept it's digital currency system crypto will always prevail over it and my country is one of such example where it's digital currency system called eNaira that was introduced ended up turning to a failed experiment as those that initially engaged into it ended up pulling out cause it lacked trust and transparency.