Bitcoin Forum

Pumping crypto market by over 5% needs very big amount of funds, like billions of $s ,(in our terms we say fiat or Stable C to buy in markets)
https://ibb.co/t4swj5P
I know this is very low compared to our 3 trillion market cap in previous bull market ,,, And stock market and bond market and commodity market are lot more.
,
My question is : Where institution store this much money to buy in markets ,
and from where they transfer money and what type of exchange they use Or any other type of exchange
And if they use centralized exchange {like binance}what type of benefits and disadvantages are :
What type of process to depositing and withdrawing this big amount need

In stocks, institution trader's , they have very very very large amount so,  what type of exchange they  use
I have a little low knowledge so ignore some mistakes.
just for knowledge,
this question is like have not enough money to pay bills and dreaming about plane trips. :D :D :D

I don't trust your numbers.


Where do you see 3 trillion market cap? It's currently 1 trillion. More precisely $1,038,587,026,385 according to CMC right now.

The answer is, there's no difference between small holders and big holders to acquire Bitcoin.

But I think those institutions are most likely hold their large Bitcoin in centralized exchanges because they're don't understand about non custodial and become "your own bank" phrase. Maybe those centralized exchange will over to stake their coins in their exchange to make them earn some interest, Average Joe will like this since they think it's worth it rather than holding without generating more coins.

And there's a huge amount of money being traded daily in the crypto market, not necessarily by a specific group of holders, but a cumulative of the total demand and supply.

• Where institutional holders store their crypto? Possibly in multiple hardware wallets with secure backups in vaults of banks. They could also use multi sig to secure their assets.
• Over The Counter traded are the most ideal for them as it does not reflect on the price.
• Benefits and disadvantage of using centralized exchanges? Pretty much what risks and be efits everyone else gets. Binance and other too CEX have a select option for those trading very high amounts, but they are still exposed to risks of data theft et al.
• OTC as mentioned above.

to clear things up
1. market caps are a meaningless number. its not a sign of how active a community is nor how much funds change hands
i can create 2 altcoins. A. of 10 coins B of 1 trillion coins
A can have 20 decimals and only then needing to purchase 0.000,000,000,000,1 for just $1 i can create a market cap of $10trillion for a cost to me of $1
B buying only 0.1 of that coin for $1 can create a $10trill market cap for $1

2. it does not require whales to move the price by 5%
again markets do not need buyers to buy whole coins, a user can eat up lots of small decimal amounts to ping a market price change  EG 0.0001 for $2.20 then 0.0001 for $2.30 changes the price from $22,000 to $23,000 all for the price of $4.50

3. ofcourse for every buyer is a seller and everytime you buy you then lose that fiat value to buy again.. but.. not so true.
at a exchange with ZERO fee. its easy to then arbitrage..
fiat-btc-eth-fiat-btc
where by you can churn the same allotment of small amount thousands of times
yep with just $100 you can arbitrage it in a cycle repeated 1000 times to produce volume of $100,000
meaning you dont need to spend $100m to create $100m of market trading volume you can create $100m of trading volume with only $100k

---

now to get to the details of where whales actually trade
they trade in OTC to buy in bulk amount of coin. and they also 'trade' in futures more than spot
(OTX is like the wholesale market and spot is the retail market)

you will notice the december boring flatline of trade of a $17k resistance line that did not breach until new years day, because they had big futures contracts that were betting the price would not breach $17k during december. and to protect their bet, they were spot trading a second smaller allotment via arbitrage to rinse the market to keep the market below $17k to ensure their futures contracts hit
we also in early january seen a week long resistance of $21.500 for the same reason

when ever you see a market where instead of free flowing wiggles of the chart you see the price constantly bumping up against a resistance wall. that wall is the whales eating up orders to stop natural small shrimp buyers from pushing the price above a certain level

there is new money coming in market so the marketcap is increased , this money can be previously stored on exchange or fresh from bank account

my question is how institution manage and trade with there huge bankroll , they use CEX or other type of exchange , mark the word "trade" not holding for long term like: accumulation, mark up ,distribution,
these question is for crypto also and stock market also

and what type of tax or moving these much amount from bank to markets cost,

yes, there are new businesses/institutions becoming interested in crypto, correct.

but that new money does not cause the market cap to rise by "storing it"
market cap is not a reserve number..
market cap is just math..
take one order. multiply it by coins in circulation = cap

EG order 0.0001btc for $2.20 = 19m coins at 418,000,000,000

the market cap has not moved up due to institutions storing billions in some spot market custodian fiat reserve..
market cap of $418bill is not backed by $418b of fiat
the cap does not represent some store.

.. the market moved because those rinsing the spot market via arbitrage to eat up any order trying to breach a resistance wall.. simply turned off their resistance wall arbitrage bot once their futures contract on other markets finalised

yep it moved up by: not spot trading the other peoples shrimp orders trying to breach their futures bet amount
and by then switching off that spot trading bot. it allows other shrimp to speculate normally above the previous resistance wall

---

they buy coins in bulk via OTC platforms and betting on futures to accumulate and also via investing in mining. they store majority of their stash away from custodians/exchanges.

yes they may lose $100k -$500m when they also invest in crypto businesses(company shares/tokens). but thats small amounts compared to the billions they hold offline

as for taxes. they know all the loopholes for tax avoidance(legal) but yes there are some that make loophole mistakes and get hit with tax evasion(illegal)

i want to make you read these two article of market capitalization
and you are what talking is like volume but no market cap means total money of spot and derivative , and total coins in circulation divided by each coins marketcap

like 1 small token have marketcap of 1000$ if a new investor buy more coins worth 100$ , of course this is 10% of total market cap
so price will increase and then the markepcap will become 1100$

read these two article to make  your doubt clear ,

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/marketcapitalization.asp

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/122314/what-difference-between-market-capitalization-and-market-value.asp


and my question is not these ,

the link about capitalisation is about total shares
the link:
its math.. not reserves

also if you have a market of 1000 shares. and market price was $1. meaning cap is $1000

a trader can just buy 1 share 100 times at $1 each and the market cap is still $1000 not $1100
because he has not moved the market price

It doesn't move the market price but when he buy these much share than the price will automatically increased
price is in proportion with marketcap , money inflow = rise in price = rice* rise in marketcap

And I understood that what you are saying after reading one more time ,

take some time to actually look into it. seems you have set your opinion and not want an answer that differs to your opinion

money inflow does not always mean increase in price.. try to realise that
here is another thing.. for every buyer.. is a seller. if you can realise that point it will clarify that its not a "inflow thing"

and again for emphasis. there is no stash of funds sat somewhere backing a cap!!!
that cap is just math. not reserves

You are forgetting that when you talk about "cryptocurrency market" you are talking about over a ten thousand different altcoins and tokens. Pumping majority of them doesn't require that much money. There are even shitcoins that can be pumped with a small amount like a couple of $100!

Your other mistake as it is being pointed out, is looking at a meaningless value called market capitalization. It is not an indication of pumpability of an altcoin.

They have their wallet used and most of which are decentralized wallet, some if this exchanges are ecentralized exchange which uses their physical asset to acquire bitcoin as well.


They shouldn't use a centralized exchange because of privacy and the amount involved, centralized exchanges my have some restrictions placed on accounts, they can not have sending or receiving challenges as long as it's not centralized exchanges which comply to AML and KYC.

I agree, and i understood ,
Market cap is not reserve it is just calculation in relation to price
Maybe there is lot more money can be or less money in crypto than marketcap
it all is game of supply and demand

thanks,

Affecting bitcoin volatility directly on the market with the current cap is too risky. Even for the size of the government which of course has much greater state wealth, they can only limited to putting pressure on crypto industries, bad policies, FUD, etc. So it is very ridiculous if the price can be pumped by a single institution or several.

"supply and demand" ?
nope its not even that.. well not the way most were taught it in highschool atleast

lets use an example
in 2012 there were 10.5m coins in circulation price was $6
according to most peoples highschool lessons of S&D if there are 19m coins the price should be lower

..
here is the thing. in bitcoin markets. forget everything you learned about fiat economics. in highschool, right?
well its wrong. becasue today there are 19m coins in circulation but the price is $23k
..
on the spot market there is speculation, and sentiment that produces a varied window of different peoples desire to buy/sell at different possible amounts

EG someone in hawaii(most expensive place to mine on planet) that are willing to buy bitcoin upto $90k a coin. and places in like iceland/norway where they can obtain bitcoin for near $15k so see no point buying it for much higher on spot market if they can mine it at that low rate

as for supply.
imagine for the last 11 years most buyers on average (shrimp buyers) only wanted to spend $400 a month investing in crypto
this does not mean the price stays the same. because the miners. getting 2x less coin per halving and also due to hash competition have even less rewards over time due to competing miners. so they are left with less coin over time to sell but with increasing costs.. . so they will sell les decimals of a btc for the same $400 average to get their costs met

yep in 2012 trades were mainly 1-1000btc on exchanges.
yep in 2022 trades were mainly 0.0001-1btc on exchanges.

its got nothing to do with total coins in circulation becasue not all coins are locked into exchange custody. nor are all coins set on market orders al being processed /swapped at same time

a spot market is a subset of a subset of a subset of coins that go towards market price at any given time

..
if you are wondering about "value" in regards to store of value where im thinking you were looking for "where is the store"

meaning if you are talking about the buzzword "store of value"
its not based on speculated sentiment of S&D of a market PRICE
nor some reserve of fiat stored somewhere to back the price

store of value is a metric that sits away from the market

ill use gold as a comparison
golds "store of value" is not some reserve of billions of fiat held somewhere to back golds spot price

golds SoV is finding the lowest efficient-ist way to acquire gold on the planet (mining) (the wholesale market(otc))
which has numbers below the spot(retail) market

golds SoV is about ~$1200 whilst the spot market is $1900
the $1200 rate is mainly the cost of mining gold at its most efficiency of the planet

bitcoin has mining costs too. which was in last half of 2022 ~$15k for most efficient mining on planet

no one on planet wants to sell at a loss of the asset they acquire. so there becomes a point where sellers refuse to sell any further down. which becomes a non-zero bottom VALUE

Many manipulators of the crypto market were unmasked at the end of 2022. Read about how FTX and Alameda manipulated the crypto market and Read about market manipulation by major exchanges like Binance. There are not so many large players in this market and they are all interconnected with each other.

Well i think institutions are now wiser now most especially that there have been so many crises in the market that sprung up from exchanges recently, like the ftx case, most institutions have their coins stored in the company cold wallet and even though there may not be able to stake from the cold wallet.
At least their coins will still yield interest in the long run when the market cap rise generally, so most companies and institutions are in for the long-term deal and there already have a set sell price which there can not go below no matter what the market condition is.

You just don't know how the total capitalization of the cryptocurrency market is calculated. I'll try to explain it with a simple example:
Coin XXX has a Circulating Supply equal to 1000.
The price of XXX is 1 dollar.
In this case, the Market Cap will be equal to $1,000.
In order for the Market Cap of this coin to increase to $10,000, it is necessary that the price of the XXX coin increase to $10. At the same time, it is not necessary to invest 9 thousand dollars for this. It will be enough, for example, for 1 coin to be bought at such a price, and this price will be recalculated for the entire Circulating Supply.

Investors are always putting their money somewhere to generate income. If their money isn't invested in crypto market, it must be in stocks. Since last year we are living a moment of raised interest rates in USA and Europe. In times like this, investment's expertises advise to purchase banks and financial institutions in general's bonds, as they are highly favoured due to the economical policy adopted by the FED and european regulators.

I believe that is a potential destiny for institutional investors' funds. Moreover, they must use centralized exchanges. Institutional investors have whole dedicated teams to the accountability area. These professionals do the KYC process and make sure all the assets are declared to the authorities every year. It's not too different from the process which must be followed by small investors.

What makes you think that the capitalization of the crypto market, which is shown on various monitoring sites, reflects the real infusion of money into the industry? I'm convinced that the amounts are much smaller, and the rest is just inflated volumes. The real money that rotates in the crypto industry is much smaller than the billion of total capitalization that is currently listed on cryptocurrency monitoring sites. If you look at the statistics of cash infusions by major investors every week, the amounts there are always no more than a few tens of millions of dollars.

You have to understand that crypto market is open 24x7, so regarding your question as to where they store? it's everywhere. Maybe in banks and then they are just going to withdraw and put in into crypto market for as long as they. So the money comes from everywhere as well, from wall streets, to other investors, retail and whales.

And regarding this pump, we are still very far from the bull run, we are still in the bear market so don't expect huge money to go in. Although its good to see the price going above $1 trillion marketcap now but we still have a long way to go.

There are no government institutions or anything like that that can affect the price of Bitcoin.
I agree with you and I have said this several times and if the price of Bitcoin can be influenced, isn't it that it has always been played with and used by those who have considerable wealth as a Pump Pum token.
Only ordinary people who enter and know the crypto industry believe that Bitcoin can be regulated or affected by its price by a certain group of people or institutions.
We must provide an understanding to those who still lack knowledge and insight into Cryptocurrency, especially Bitcoin, so that there is no such public duping.

As far as  i know, governments are only seeking for stable coins or those coins which are less volatile so I think there won't be a pump from doing so. Another thing is that governments are even releasing their own digital currency which is another thing to doubt that their engagement resulted to a pump in this industry at the present. Demand is what making this industry alive. Demand on the other hand is affected by different factors which uplifts and pulls down the market price of this industry. Since no one knows what exactly triggered the pump, let us just appreciate what is happening in this industry. We saw how low its price could be after the ATH, and predent shows hope basically.