Bitcoin Forum

The billionaire Ray Dalio who is successful investor in the Uber, has recently been interviewed on a podcast and has mostly spoken negative about the bitcoin and it's investment.

The guy has mind set where he advices to keep blockchain and crypto currencies as different roads because one of them is technology while the others are just medium to invest your money. Basically what he suggest is: crypto currencies as an asset can be replaced by any other means of asset, for example a newer form of asset and thus there is no guarantee for it's long lasting existence.

According to him it would be better if all the crypto investors find another form of investment for secure future. 

One of the weirdest point he was making is: Crypto do not replicate anything and thus they are "ineffective store of wealth"

This is not at all up to the point analysis and anyone would disagree about what this guy has said or trying to convince others. I have literally laughed about his analysis, because he is trying to segregate investment based on a technological advancement VS vehicles that run on it. I mean it is same thing as stating that you should not be investing into Dubai but you can invest in Oil which is getting dug out of their soil(!)

https://i.ibb.co/vsNSdTP/3052721.jpg
Ray Dalio

Billionaire Ray Dalio Destroys Crypto Hype (https://u.today/billionaire-ray-dalio-destroys-crypto-hype)

He's an old guy just like Munger and Buffet but he at least took his time learning a bit about crypto. He may have meant those altcoins that are replaced all the time at the top of ranks back in the early days and then now can't be found on the top 100. But he missed seeing BTC be the top all the time.

His views on the future amazed people compare to the Birkshire guys though but all of them look at the future still with gold.

Gold, silver, crypto none matters as long as you have so much wealth that you are able to give a share of it to the politicians and the law makers of a country. They are the one who decides your fate, make a thing legal and illegal. They don't put the tag for you but for their own interest. Crypto is a path to deny the orders they put on you and find your freedom.

I need grocery items, let the market decides how much will be the price of the items and let me pay it with something that is decided by the market too. Bring the power back to the people.

You know what's common with these billionaire critics? Pretty much all of them are in the United States. If you're in a country where your currency and currency restrictions are mostly great (at least compared to other countries), you tend to think that bitcoin is unnecessary. People in other shitty/tight countries would beg to differ though.

Ray Dalio has been speaking things that could be perceived as anti and pro Bitcoin. And he has Bitcoin himself. While he acknowledged the uncertain fate or future of Bitcoin, he also admitted that having a certain percentage of your portfolio allocated to Bitcoin is also a reasonable thing. I don't think the man is particularly biased for or against it.

And I also largely agree when he distinguishes the technology from a certain crypto project; blockchain from DoggyStyle Coin, for example. We cannot just justify our investment in a certain shitcoin by citing the underlying technology that it uses.

Another rich, stuffed billionaire with a negative mentality or is he just trying to gain clout? It's funny how some of these peeps get to stuff their wallets with Bitcoin and still come out to say degrading things is something I still can't fathom.
 Regarding Bitcoin to be a "tiny thing" is  quite a mean description and despite his status as a hedge fund expert , I think he's got a poor knowledge of Bitcoin and how it operates.

I guess that he is one the haters that keep saying "Bitcoin/crypto is worthless because it isn't backed by anything." or "Blockchain is great, but Bitcoin/altcoins freakin' suck.". ;D
1.Fiat money also aren't backed by anything, but nobody cares about that. ;D
2.Separating Bitcoin from the technology upon which BTC was built is simply ignorant.
Saying that BTC is a bad/ineffective store of wealth because it can be replaced is just nonsense. Every financial asset can be replaced.
Bitcoin isn't supposed to bring security to it's investors, because BTC was never secure in terms of price stability. BTC is always will be risky and volatile as a financial asset. The same thing applies to almost all altcoins.

Its marketing guys. He is a fund manager with a traditional investment view. His clients invested in his word view (traditional with traditional type of investments like value stocks). Guess what would happened if he would decide to be a bitcoin ambassador. Most likely he would lose the majority of clients.

Also his view about 99% of crypto is correct. Most of them are replaceable, backed by dream and not even worth research. But I would distinguish bitcoin form other crypto.

Why give a huge basis about what he say? Everyone has right to express his opinion regarding on what they believe. If he think bitcoin is bad so be it so many people tells a bad word about it but there belief shifts when they see golden opportunity about the cryptocurrency industry.  Let those old guys stick to traditional since once digital space boom they will be outdated and eat back the words what he say.

Nothing actually last for ever, Ray Dalio may not have believed in bitcoin because he's doing well in other businesses but he should verified from other billionaires who are into bitcoin and who knows the value of bitcoin to see if its totally does not make sense. Nobody will say bitcoin will stay forever but is a long term projects that will Carry's many generation along.

In as much he's not interested that's a personal reasons to him but it should influence the public with question of if bitcoin will be a lasting projects, after all even humans can not tell when your life sperm will expired from the earth. Bitcoin is here to stay for longer period of time than expected weather any country, individuals, billionaires or not bitcoin will fulfil its time.

You know what.  I kind of agree with this guy.

Bitcoin does not have a guaranteed existence long term.  There is this possibility that Bitcoin one day will simply be replaced by a so much better technology.

But.  Who cares.  Bitcoin is necessary NOW and is in the best form known yet for a digital Currency to ever be in.  It may be replaced one day.  Or may be not.  But since this is the best thing we have now, we use it and we trust in it.

Imagine saying electric cars are not a good investment because they may be replaced at any given time.  This is also a valid argument.  But this does not mean we are not trusting electric cars.  This also does not mean it is a bad investment.

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Regards,
PrivacyG

Each one of us does really have that own opinion and words about on certain stuffs on which we would really be that neither be negative or positive towards it.Come into the point in speaking about Bitcoin or crypto as

a whole on which we know that not all would really be ending up on having a positive approach into it specially into those who are getting used to traditional thing on which they would really be
always have that something to say on whatever innovation or whats something new in the market.

Hate it or love it, it all matters and depends into them because we do have different perception and approach on different things.

I freakin hate this one. It's mostly being said by those who hate bitcoin/crypto, but acknowledges blockchain so they wouldn't sound like a tech/innovation snob.

They all decide who to put to govern the country and the government. It's necessary though. I can understand we want the market to decide prices but it's not gonna make a peaceful place because the rich too can lift the price of the grocery item.

What I admire most about Ray Dalio is his book about World Changing Orders and Rise and Fall of Empires which he emphasizes many times that a war is necessary to be able to have peace. And this also is decided by them, probably by the WEF.

This is another case of what I've been warning about for the past couple of year. The case where people look at cryptocurrencies and then judge bitcoin whereas they are very different. Altcoins have no usage and what was said here is correct about them. Bitcoin on the other hand is unique and provides a real world utility hence the statements make no sense about it.
Lets see

100% correct.
We have seen this over the years. One altcoin is replaced by another. If you look at the coinmarketcap stapshots you can clearly see this. Although I'd argue that altcoins are not assets, they are gambling tools.

100% correct.
Altcoin investors are fooling themselves and shouldn't "invest" in any of the altcoins. Only bitcoin is a viable investment for the reasons I said at the start.

100% correct.
Altcoins are the stupidest store of wealth since they get dumped and eventually disappear which is because they are useless and will eventually be replaced by another useless altcoin.

This is bullshit.
For starters Microsoft has been around since 1975 (48 years) whereas bitcoin has been around since 2009.
Besides Microsoft is not attacked by literary everyone spreading FUD about it, restricting access, shutting down bank accounts, banning its usage, etc.

That is not possible to do globally since the inflation is not a global matter, it is local. It is also not possible to achieve with decentralization since inflation is again centralized.

Good thing bitcoin is technically money not currency.

100% correct.
The hype surrounding altcoins is all fake and the price they have is not a representation of their value since majority of them are worthless.

100% correct but I should add that in the current economical situation people should find a store of value that is not directly affected by the dumping economy, credit bubble, inflation, ... that makes bitcoin the only choice.

See I seperate Bitcoin from "Crypto", like pooya87 i agree 100% about "Crypto being an ineffective
store of wealth" because to me and many others Crypto is just $hitcoins.

Currently with how Bitcoin is valued its still "too small" for a lot of the mega wealthy to
be interested. When it starts to get into the same realm as the likes of Microsoft in terms
of value then its will be interesting to them.

Its true that Microsoft has had a relatively smooth road to travel in 45 years whereas
Bitcoin has been attacked year on year.....and is still here and getting stronger year on year.

You can not believe those rich influencers. They are rich but it does not mean they are honestly with what they said.

Many rich influencers simply said they hate Bitcoin that is scam, dead and whatever bad words against Bitcoin. Later they integrated Bitcoin into their business and said in interview that I invested in Bitcoin years ago.

Trust them, please don't!

Bitcoin is open source and there are opened documents to learn about it. Read to learn by yourself and build up your knowledge then belief in Bitcoin. Verify with learning and your belief will increase by knowledge, not by influencers.

If you need an example, the shark who supported FTX, a brand ambassador of that collapsed exchange and has never stopped attacking CZ and Binance. Years ago, he said Bitcoin is scam and months ago, in an interview he leaked that he invested in Bitcoin circa 2017 or 2016.  ::)

I don't really understand why they care in the first place. They already have money enough for their children to live without work, What difference does it make what others buy for them? Old guys in governments, finances, and leadership positions ruin things for the young really often.

I have not read the book but since you cherry picked about necessity of war [from him], here is what I think.
They do not war against each others to have peace but to seize power from one hand to other. They sell peace to war but evil behind it is the power seeking. It has long history but let's consider from Dutch to English, English to US, now US to to be continued. You think any of them were to establish peace? Think twice.

The rich are minor in numbers in any community. In an open economy let's say they are 1%, this 1% can not make any difference for 99%. They can now because they set the rules using the power of the politicians and law makers.

Since he is an investor, it's not surprising that he sees Bitcoin primarily as an asset. And if we do that, he is correct that new assets can appear, attention to some other investment opportunities can replace attention to Bitcoin. Where I disagree is in the part that Bitcoin is just an asset while blockchain is technology. Bitcoin is a revolutionary type of money, a currency that isn't issued by any authority, that can't be faked, the price of which cannot be regulated, and where there is no limit of who can participate in issuing new coins as long as a person has financial means to purchase equipment with which mining would make sense nowadays.
Apart from all that, it's unfair to disregard how successful Bitcoin has been as a long-term investment option, how much it has grown and from what sort of lows it managed to recover over and over again.

As we write, there is already war right now between Russia and Ukraine.

How then, does the peace come for everyone? It's illogical when you think about it.


The funny thing is, there is no blockchain without the units of currency that fill it (call them Bitcoin, altcoins, or whatever you want). I'm not sure why this part is so difficult for people to understand.

Uber is dying too in most countries because of bike taxis and people can afford their own cars so he is just doing it for publicity stunt or just blabbering cause he himself afraid of his investments return in future.

For any investor crypto is just another investment and if they find something better they can move on and the volatility also high with crypto there is no denial in the fact but cryptocurrency proved all these oldies were wrong since the beginning and growing strongly.

Honestly, I don't believe what billionaires say about bitcoin or cryptocurrencies because they know bitcoin's lucrative potential, and they don't want people to get rich quickly and on par with them. They are afraid of that happening, so they always talk bad about bitcoin to keep people away from bitcoin. I believe there are many billionaires who are quietly investing in bitcoin, they are not stupid enough to not see the potential of bitcoin, but they do not want equality in this world.

It's okay if he asks because maybe he doesn't really understand what bitcoin is, what blockchain is and things related to bitcoin. What's important is that we have a purpose in investing in bitcoin and not think about what other people say because they might not like crypto. They can say all kinds of things about crypto, especially bitcoin and we can't change that. So it's up to them and if they still don't want to invest in bitcoin, we shouldn't pay attention to him.

Possessing money doesn't always equate to your level of intelligence and this guy is basically a great example to prove my statement. I respect his opinion, but I completely disagree with it for various reasons.

There will always be haters of BTC, but there will always be supporters too like us which is all that matters at the end of the day.

its more of a "dont put all eggs into one basket" investment advice
yes some cryptos. like say ethereum is being artificially held up by a bubble value right now due to arbitrage and how ether is locked and not doing its own price discovery right now. so has yet to see the "PoS" value correction to the new 95% lower production cost(bottomline value)

so yea some currencies will see value crashes once stakes can be unlocked and start hitting the market selling at profits with new lower costs of 20x lower 'minting' cost average compared to last year

however bitcoins value is in its lowest efficiency mining cost region which is $15k+ meaning bitcoins price is still in its cheap value region and not at a ATH region(last $70k). and as long as hashing grows to keep the bottomline cost going up. bitcoins store of value % is in a great "green happy zone" (just dont buy btc at a premium ATH price(expect corrections after ATH's))

i personally am a long term bitcoin maximalist that sees bitcoin has many mechanisms at play that will and should keep bitcoins hashrate rises and thus value competition going up for many years and thus the competition for underlying efficient low costs increase to higher costs as time goes on. so bitcoin is a stronger investment to trust than say ethereum

They're not afraid of people getting rich all they afraid is people is adapting to decentralized monetary system which makes billionaires to become powerless so they are pushing the governments as hard as they can to suppress the growth since we are at the earliest stage of its adoption.

But Bitcoin isn't made to make people rich either it's solely created with complete transparency when it comes to transaction no third party needed for any transaction to happen.

It would be interesting to know if Ray Dalio invested in bitcoin, how would he react about it? And if he became a millionaire billionaireat with bitcoin, then how?

I'm sure he only speaks well of the Uber and investing in it because he's been so successful at it. In general, I want to say that very often the opinions of famous and public figures can be biased. Don't need to immediately take their opinion as the truth, because they are also people and can be wrong.

I think Ray Dalio most likely knows very little about bitcoin and does not fully understand it.

You (OP) gave an exact analogy with Dubai and oil. Maybe you should voice it to Ray? :)

Having a different opinion and point of view doesn't make anyone an idiot.  He has proven himself as his strategy of investment makes him a billionaire so he might think that he has the authority to express his belief in Bitcoin and blockchain.

The person may be uninformed about Bitcoin and blockchain but that does not make him less intelligent than us.  Remember he has his own specialty and he proves his way and strategy are enough to make him a billionaire.

Yes you are right, it is really just that there are people who do really got jealous or envied someone in regarding their financial status whether its a millionaire or billionaire which come to think that they do work

hard before they do able to reach up that state and this is why its up to their own view and perspective on whats Bitcoin or crypto to them.If they do hate it then so be it but if not then its up to them.

This is why we shouldn't really mind others opinion and perspective because it would really just stress you out and in something that arent your business.
Mind your own always and it would be more worth on spending up time.

Since I have become a fan of cryptocurrency, I have stopped arguing with people on what there benefit of becoming a Bitcoin investor would be because I know that you can not successfully argue with some persons.
They will always bring out weak facts a out cryptocurrency especially the odd aspect just to discourage you or win any argument with you. This is not a time to argue about what Bitcoin could do for us including the benefits but to concentrate on helping people that are interested in Bitcoin and want to be an investor.  This is not the time to listen to the weak opinion of people discouraging the adoption of Bitcoin.

God, I don't know how but what you have said its true, Pretty much all of them are in the United States.


and you have good point

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I mean right know what is the investment who doesn't have risk those people believe in some kind of instrument but don't believe in other. Everything always have the negative side even the mutual fund, stock, or even government bonds

This - just ask the people of Cyprus, Venezuela, Germany in the 1930s, North Korea, China, Russia etc.  Other countries in the future.  Perhaps even the US if the statists get their way and destroy liberty there.

Plus the fact that the value of the asset keeps the blockchain secure.  If you have a cartel that controls the blockchain and don't care about the security, then you really don't need crypto, just a distributed, shared database.  If you want something secure in a trustless environment there has to be some value there to secure or else who is going to care?

What the heck are you going on about? He is definitely an idiot when referring to his knowledge of cryptocurrencies and so many posters have already pointed that out. He clearly needs to learn more about BTC.

Honestly, billionaires like him usually say shit about BTC in order to buy the dip and sell when it rises later on which is a clever strategy.

I believe when these people use the term "blockchain is great but not crypto" they are referring to the underlying technology as a whole not just the blockchain (ie the database) alone. That includes units of currency but their view is a  centralized form of the technology that would translate into something like the CBDC nonsense.

You admitted. He and other billionaires are not stupid, only those who believe what they say to stay away from bitcoin are stupid, and I've never seen anyone stupid become a billionaire. I believe those billionaires also invest in bitcoin, and they say bad about bitcoin doesn't mean they don't invest in it, they talk bad about it every day because they don't want us to invest in bitcoin anymore. Rich people don't want to share their wealth with others, don't believe what they say, watch what they are doing.

He is a good investor, a book writer, and has a consulting business that is making tons of profits per year, which I would say is his opinion, but I don't agree with it. I really like his books, as they are for self-improvement as well as for business, but when it comes to technological aspects, he isn't that familiar with them. He may not fully understand the technology behind the crypto, which is why he is telling those. It is still in us if we do follow his suggestion (which I made big wrong predictions before inflation and depression). But thinking on the positive side, he is just telling us to diversify our investment, not only put it in crypto.

So what are you investing in bitcoin for? Are you looking for decentralization and financial transparency? It is true that Satoshi's purpose of creating bitcoins was to create a transparent trading system and no need for a third party. But so far, bitcoin is a highly profitable investment channel, and people go there for profit reasons. Market participants to this day are looking forward to the wealth that bitcoin brings, you and me included.

Making money is one of the reasons but it isn't the sole reason and satoshi didn't have such visions while creating bitcoin as well. Of course you, me, and everyone else need money in this world to survive but bitcoin brings decentralization which gives complete control of our money in our hands while fiat is highly controlled by central banks, and can do whatever they want when they want to.

I understand blockchain technology so I believe it is going to be the future of money that is the reason why I am here nothing else, and who knows one day I can tell about being one of the earliest adopters of bitcoin to my grandkids. :D

Yes, taking the positive side, it means we should try to diversify our investment by not only investing in crypto because there are many types of investment. But if he forbids you to invest in crypto, you don't need to listen to him because we have our own opinion that we get from the results of our research.

And if he wants to open himself up to accept crypto and learn what the benefits of crypto are, I think he will agree and maybe he has invested in crypto without us knowing. Investing in crypto is for everyone and it is up to that person to decide whether to keep investing in crypto or invest in something else.

Why its getting more attention? Everyone has right to express their own opinion regarding on what they believe or like. If he think bitcoin is negative, he should stay away from it since, once the digital economy takes off, he will be out of date and miss miss the chance to prove his point.

This is his point of view, he managed to build a successful business and sees certain risks in investing in bitcoin. I agree that it is impossible to invest all the money in one thing, there must be diversification in order to protect us from large losses that can significantly affect us.

Rich people who have already created large fortunes will be convinced that they are right in their judgments because they have achieved their goals with other tools. Moreover, bitcoin is a new technology that not everyone has figured out, and perhaps there are those who are simply not interested in it. Why does he need it, if he already owns a huge fortune, and he has achieved everything he wanted.

It is a common method whenever you want to hate on something or just basically want to diminish the power of it. You find something good about it, and then say that "this part is good, but the rest is bad", it is done in everything, including politics as well, whenever someone says something you disagree, people go "the intention could be good but the method would ruin our nation!" type of thing.

This "blockchain is good but bitcoin sucks" thing has been around since bitcoin was created and it has not stopped the increase of bitcoin adoption and the price of it as well. We just have to wait and in a few years at most we will have another higher ATH, the haters can't stop it.

The funny thing about billionaires that are against Bitcoin is that if they had educated themselves on Bitcoin already they would already be billions of dollars wealthier than they are.

I mean, as a billionaire, the idea that you wouldn't at least have just put like say $100 million into Bitcoin a few years ago is crazy. These billionaires are too scared of Bitcoin and by not getting educated on it they are making the biggest financial mistake of their life.

I’m not supporting Billionaire but your logic is assuming that cryptocurrency will continue to rise and no one will sold their holdings. You can use as an example Michael Saylor. If what you said is right then he will have billions of profit now since he invested more than 100$ million dollar yet he is now in huge loss despite he invest few years ago when crypto is rallying. He has the chance to take profit that time when Bitcoin hit the peak price but he didn’t since his holdings will just dump the price to the floor when he exit. This is same scenario on other Billionaires which is why they are pointing out the secured way of investing.

There’s nothing wrong on his opinion that is his belief towards investment. Crypto is really a risky investment so he is not lying. It just hurtful to hear for us since we are Bitcoin investors but we acknowledge the risk of our investment due to volatility.