Bitcoin Forum

We all know El Salvador was the first country to officially accept Bitcoin as its legal tender. We do know the problems El Salvador has been facing after that, many here would not accept it but the truth cannot be suppressed. In the meantime, Guatemala which neighbors El Salvador has been busy adopting Bitcoin the right way.

Like El Salvador Bitcoin was never forced onto Guatemala. Their economy is far better than their neighborhood yet every local has shown an inclination toward Bitcoin. I was surprised when I saw it on Youtube. I came across this video which will prove that Bitcoin can only succeed in a country when everyone accepts it and knows its value through grass root penetration. I mean everyone here came together when someone recommended Bitcoin.

The Untold Secrets of Guatemala's Bitcoin Lake
https://i.imgur.com/ynAjA3nl.png
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYdp8yS1exU&t=22s)

  

And the truth is nobody was forced, the USD was not banned (unlike what happened in my country until 2019) and yet its legal tender nation wide, which is why El Salvador is in the headlines and not Guatemala.

Some people want to mix Bukele's other policies with Bitcoin for political reasons. I agree with Bukele, imprisoning all the gangs stopped the murders. Of course their economy is smaller, crime didn't let the country prosper since none of the other politicians did nothing about it. And those same politicians have political allies with the neighbors and they love saying crap against Bukele. Even the Colombian socialist buffoon did. Its mostly the Marxist parties with some others added to the mix.

But now El Salvador is growing, fast. You are just jealous your politicians have been too slow to adopt it as legal tender, which they should...
Otherwise investors will keep pouring to El Salvador first. And yes, there are people also adopting Bitcoin in regions of Honduras, without the blessing of the State... Everyone is repeating El Zonte, but they miss either a Bukele or a political party to support them.

El Salvador under Bukele led the way, and all you can do now is follow, and follow you should, or else you will simply miss it. And that's the truth, no matter what you say.

I'm glad some communities are adopting, just like how it started in El Zonte, but when are those dinosaur politicians move to declare it legal tender? Scared of what the IMF/WB would say? This is so the State doesn't get in the way. Yes people can do it without their blessing anyway, but why not step out of the way like El Salvador did?

In El Salvador, you don't have to use Chivo wallet ever. Its an option, not an obligation. If you want more focus to your country, move those dinosaur politicians in the right direction. Adopt Bitcoin NOW, pass a law and declare it legal tender. Or who knows, maybe Honduras will do it first...

I thought it's new, but actually Guatemala already friendly with Bitcoin since the last year [1] but it's just underrated since the country is small and not accept Bitcoin as a legal tender, it's just similar with the other countries which accept Bitcoin as commodities and no have any rule about currency adoption. So these countries can use Bitcoin to buy anything ad long as the stores accept it.

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[1] https://www.bloomberglinea.com/english/bitcoin-lake-guatemalas-crypto-enclave-launches/

True Bitcoiners should be worried if everybody accepts Bitcoin.  It's a System/Currency of the free and people who desire freedom. Only few are really free while majority are in bondage.

Just consider it as a Freedom Ship in the high Sea that's always open to run away and freed slaves to come in. It does not force anyone to come in neither does it bend to the will of slave masters and their slaves.. It's voluntary system and has to be used properly,according to it's good ideals.

Yes I agree with you @OP because I also believe that Bitcoin can only succeed in a country that it is generally accepted rathen in countries that has mixed feelings towards it.
I think the wrong concept of Bitcoin is what is actually slowing the adoption of Bitcoin because basically most people see Bitcoin as a means of getting rich or a means of investment but rather the main concept of Bitcoin is to have a digital currency that helps fight against the monopoly of physical Fiat but just as a member of a forum said that the early adopter of Bitcoin were the ones that instilled the mindset of using the volatile nature of Bitcoin to comb in profit and ever since then, people are already trained towards such mindsets.
Let's fix this mindset and watch the global adoption of Bitcoin.

I didn't know about Guatemala and I haven't seen anything about it in our local board (Spanish). I suppose we have no active member from Guatemala there. I would like to see the adoption of bitcoin spread to these countries, even with different legal forms, as the LATAM community is very large and can help its development. I think as soon as the price recovers a bit we will start to hear more about the use of bitcoin one way or another in those countries.

El Salvador is a first country makes Bitcoin legal tender and people more remember about El Salvador than other nations.

How about Central African Republic (https://coinmarketcap.com/legal-tender-countries/)? It made Bitcoin legal tender about less than one year after El Salvador. People less discuss about that nation and I am not surprised to see they less discuss about Guatemala.

The trend is small nations and nations with financial social economic crises will more likely make Bitcoin legal tender first. However, they only make noise and big impacts would come from big nations which have yet been ready to do that.

Bitcoin Lake seems like a community centered project as per how it is depicted on their webpage (http://bitcoinlake.io/), inspired on El Salvador’s Bitcoin Beach project, and seemingly small scale.

The most recent information I managed to find, from an official perspective, is gathered on the below referenced 2023 article, though based on a 2021 press release made by the Superintendence of Banks of Guatemala (kind of like their Central Bank I figure). The press release clearly states that cryptocurrency is not supported by the government of Guatemala, and although they may be looking into it at to some extent in the back scenes, it doesn’t seem to yet have the required political support, thus falling pretty short in comparison to El Salvador.

See (Google Translated):
https://republica-gt.translate.goog/finanzas/se-pueden-usar-la-criptomonedas-en-guatemala-tienen-respaldo-legal-en-el-pais--202313112520?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp
 

Do we have any members from Salvador?
I've never seen at least one post about a guy that was living there and telling his experience, all we got to date, or at least those I stumbled upon are stories from people who traveled there, which is not really giving the right perception.


Because they don't have a president that is active on Twitter with laser eyes posting BTC memes.
If you take that away from Salvador and start discussing numbers only it becomes just as boring as CAR or Guatemala or any other country.


 

[quote author=elevates link=topic=5444875.msg61911265#msg61911265 date=1678799939]
...
The Untold Secrets of Guatemala's Bitcoin Lake
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/17/blob03179b1788c98b46.jpeg
 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYdp8yS1exU&t=22s)

[/quote]

I did literally read about Guatemala's Bitcoin Lake too on Bitcoin Magazine^[1]. It's about how they mine bitcoin with used cooking oil.



^{[1] https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/guatemala-town-mining-bitcoin-with-used-oil}



[quote author=Ucy link=topic=5444875.msg61911813#msg61911813 date=1678805038]
True Bitcoiners should be worried if everybody accepts Bitcoin.  It's a System/Currency of the free and people who desire freedom. Only few are really free while majority are in bondage.
...
[/quote]

The only thing we should worry is the tax that might be applied by the governments to our crypto assets especially bitcoin, as the main purpose of bitcoin is to get rid of that. And yeah, bitcoin and/or blockchain is a freedom, to those who get tired of banks and taxes.

So you may not know about the Bitcoin island in Honduras either, interesting.

Oh yes, Bitcoin City in El Salvador is the only one that has (so far) promised no taxes except for VAT.

It's not in the news but it must make sense to see more El Salvador neighbors going to BTC as well. These countries are known to have been ruled by gangs as the media says. Nayib is very aware of it that's why he is also brutal to these gangs.

If Guatemala adopts BTC, then it spreads already after the announcement of El Salvador's success. It wouldn't be surprising if down to Nica and Columbia will also have markets adopting BTC. Or Chapo launching his own coin  :D

Are you from El Salvador? Bitcoin adoption and everything that happens around that country looks a little bit mystic for me.
At first I thought that one or some gangs have El Salvador government by balls and they pushed their president to adopt a bitcoin in order to easily launder money, do illegal activities and move without cash, easily with bitcoin.
Then I thought that maybe Bukele and people around him are corrupt too and in case they face sanctions from USA, etc, they will have zero problem because of bitcoin.
But, I frequently read that Bukele is doing well, crime is declining, people feel better, economy is slightly but going up, they are opening Bitcoin Embassy in the USA and so on.
Great, congrats!

Yes, totally makes sense why Guatemala has not been in the news because they are not a legal tender and just a bitcoin-friendly country like any other countries now unlike El Salvador which made a risky move to be the first, hence why news are focused on them because almost every country are observing El Salvador's ups and down. And now, the Central African Republic (CAR) has been following Bukele and El Salvador's lead to lift their country from the slum.

I am glad the Guatemala is not forcing the adoption but trying to pitch it to the people to experience the benefits. Every big change usually has a very humble beginning. That's what is happening there.

I do not want to completely bash El-Salvador either. Because the efforts their government has taken for bitcoin adoption is commendable. New things usually faces resistance. But still the Bukele government managed it properly and now enjoying their independence from US dollar.

El Salvador, is a country that, first of all, has for better or for worse, read again, that is, for positive or negative results, a Leader,a President who likes bitcoin, that situation doesn't exist in any other country.

Come on!, to Latin American countries, The dollar was imposed on them, is it that simple, as a monetary dependency for payments, taxes, etc.

Peoples were forced to use the dollar at Latin America. which is the heart of the matter. Several countries have their respective legal currencies, but although the dollar is not the official currency in many countries, it flows at a parallel currency rate.

So do not come with stories of impositions, if you do not know how "cobre/plata/billete" moves through the region.

Educate yourself well about the countries of the region, especially El Salvador and Central America, nowadays is an myth to think that, because you do not live in a region, you cannot know the country situation well.

But the issue is that some confuse reading an article and five minutes of information, then to they already pretend be experts.

No! there is no such independence.
So, it is the goal in the importance, hence, yes!,  bitcoin exists as a legal currency, but this does not imply independence. At least not now.
__
Finally, the matter should not refer to a country specifically when talking about bitcoin, since it circulates as a parallel currency in many countries (in the dark, in legality, in legal vacuums, etc. call it what you want, but circulate, flow bitcoin.)

And! that is happening and it is not necessary to put borders or the name of a specific country.

Let us not forget that the grassroots of bitcoin has been totally bad for most countries. And having that perspective of everyone knows bitcoin is fairly low to be seen since most countries aren't open with bitcoin adoption.

But the let us acknowledge the countries that despite they didn't adopt bitcoin as a legal tender and doesn't have something to say, at least they don't restrict and forbidden their citizens to use and invest in bitcoin.

It's unlikely to see that everyone will adopt bitcoin but I guess, that being in a country that the majority is aware of bitcoin says a lot from that country. But ask them if they've got bitcoin holdings might be a different topic to discuss.

I have read the article.  Guatemala does not reject BTC but they also do not use BTC as a medium of exchange in their country.  This is just like any other country that doesn't ban BTC and accepts them as a digital asset.  I see what happened in Guatemala the same as in Indonesia where all crypto assets are legal but cannot be used as a medium of exchange.

Even in El Salvador the adoption isn't forced. People were given choice of their own to use bitcoin. Based on different statistics it is known that around 25% to 35% is using bitcoin. We don't know what exactly is the reality in El Salvador.

Guatemala might be correcting themselves with things planned better than El Salvador. Maybe initially they're trying to educate people and further implement the adoption of bitcoin which didn't happen in El Salvador.

El Salvador fastened the process and once after the implementation it started educating the people about the usage and how good this to the economy.

Oppositions will be part of governance and we were able to see it in El Salvador, because bitcoin adoption is just a small part. Apart from this he had did lot of reforms that have made El Salvador high in different things.

Not a bit problem though, but i assume that it won't be huge and only taxed when buying commodities/services the same as what fiat did, but if not then its really the case and will be a future problem too.

That's obviously a problem, because we use bitcoin to avoid unnecessary tax from fiat transactions and saving money in the bank. Regarding the tax amount, in US you could be charged 10-37%^[1] for any crypto assets you hold less than a year, and might be increased in future. Though in the same statement mentions that long-term crypto investors would get taxed 0-20% depending the income level.


^{[1] https://www.forbes.com/advisor/taxes/cryptocurrency-tax-calculator}

I wouldn't say that El Salvador adopted Bitcoin the wrong way. Sure, perhaps the merchants should have been given more choice on what they want to accept as payment, but maybe not. If a currency is recognized as a legal tender, people must be able to use it as payment where they want to use it, and thus merchants must ensure such an option is available. Denying this would mean saying that Bitcoin should not be recognized as legal tender, I believe. I'm happy that grassroots thing is working for Guatemala, but the top-down El Salvador's approach isn't automatically bad. I'd be happy if my country used El Salvador's approach.
The video is cool, and it's awesome that people like Eleazar exist. They use the Wallet of Satoshi, a custodial lightning solution. But the upside is how easy it is to use (based on the examples featured in the video). What feels a little off, though, is that the video and people in it emphasize that you can be your own bank with Bitcoin (which is true), while omitting the fact that they use a custodial wallet (which is convenient to use but defeats the whole 'be your own bank point').

I will keep giving Bukele and the El Salvadoran government all the credits because they decided to use their nation as an experiment for nations adopting Bitcoin as a legal tender. El Salvador has some lofty visions about Bitcoin which it has not accomplished. But it is also good to see that some negative prediction by the IMF and World Bank about El Salvador has not materialized. Like every experiment, there will always be trial and errors but at the end it will come out good. If the price of Bitcoin keep increasing critics of Bukele will reduce gradually.

The news from Guatamala is a great one. Starting a project from the grassroot is important to the success of any policy. Education and public awareness in more important than any other stage in policy formulation and implementation process.This is because the people that the policy is targeted at must understand it. If they are comfortable with the policy, they will voluntarily abide by it without force. I read that bank transaction fees are very high in Guatamala which means Bitcoin could be a good alternative.

there is a real underlying reason why the whole world is talking about el salvador that has adopted bitcoin, it was they who first publicized that they accepted bitcoin for legal payments in full crypto and legalized it
in Guatemala they don't reject btc and can use it as an asset and payment but it's not legalized like in el savador

just my opini about your video

I am happy to note that small countries are actually pioneering the adoption of Bitcoin into their everyday economy as a currency. Right now, in the USA which remains to be the top global economy, there remains no clear regulatory framework in the adoption of Bitcoin though it is legal to invest and trade with it. Maybe with El Salvador and Guatemala, we can see the benefits and maybe even the advantages of Bitcoin adoption...before we can expect big countries to fully embrace Bitcoin. Right now, that BTC is rising as a result of the banking problems in USA, maybe there will be other smaller countries to be taking notice.

     Whatever the nearby area of El Salvador is planning, this is another good sign for our cryptocurrency lovers.

Bitcoin, in most aspects, can provide financial freedom if it is used correctly. And you are also right that this is the right volunteering if we want to choose to do it.

The main thing is that the precedent has been created. Although bitcoin has not yet been officially recognized in Guatemala, there are movements in this direction. Certainly better than in many other countries.

Actually, this news was new to me. I assumed that the bitcoin adoption would begin with developing countries. As you can see, btc starts its march from Central America. Whether it can spread further, to the north of the mainland, it will be interesting to observe.

If you use bitcoin to evade taxes, then what the government is saying about bitcoin is not wrong. The government is concerned about the anonymity of bitcoin, which will become the preferred vehicle for criminals, making it difficult to track them down. If you use bitcoin to evade taxes, you agree with the government that bitcoin is harmful, not beneficial. Paying taxes is a citizen's duty. We are very greedy, do not want to pay taxes, but when we are cheated, we always blame the government for not protecting us.

Good point mate. But with or without bitcoin, criminals are still there. They are have been there since the beginning of humanity, and will always seek the way to do what they want. Of course evading taxes isn't a good thing to do for a good civilian. Bitcoin is made to make our life easier, to get any transaction faster and cheaper. It means that we have full control of our money, instead of saving it in the bank where any fee charged to your saving and the annual insane inflation rate affect it. Beside that, you'd be charged with additional cost by sending money worldwide. Those things what I mean about unnecessary taxes are. Beside that, even if tax is needed, I dont think the government should take it so high. I hope you get my points.

The difference perhaps here is that while El Salvador can boldly say that bitcoin is a means of being a legal payment there, Guatemala is not.
In fact, what Guatemala has done is also very good and deserves appreciation, but it is clear that El Salvador is much braver in this matter, so there are still many people who discuss things like this, of course it is more El Salvador, not Guatemala.

El Salvador's adoption is on the lofty while Guatemala on the hand scenario is different. A whole country announced accepting bitcoin as a legal payment while it was a lone merchant that started a bitcoin project tagged "The Bitcoin Lake". They're of two diverse perspectives. Hopefully, the population agrees to more adoptions in no time.

I haven't heard that Guatemala has officially adopted bitcoin, if that is true I don't know why it didn't get as much media attention as El Salvador.

I read an article about this in Cointelegraph, but it was talking about the increase in companies accepting payments in bitcoins in Guatemala, but I did not find that the government officially adopted it, as happened in El Salvador, so I am not sure that bitcoin was officially adopted by the government there, or is it just allowing companies to accept payments in bitcoin.

Thanks for sharing this information, I am not aware until I see this but honestly main stream media ignore any positive news about cryptocurrency but when there is something negative like the bankruptcy of FTX and recent issue going on Binance has been headlines of many news outlets for the last few weeks now the reputed Chipmixer also seized by FBI for involving money laundering.

The state cannot force an individual to do or not do something, but through regulations and laws it can control the people, but it will not prevent individuals from doing what they see fit.
Even when the government tries to push the people towards a certain thing, unless there is a will for change, the government's attempts will not succeed.
If the middle class of any society can use Bitcoin effectively then it is easy to see parallel legal changes.

El Salvador got the attention of mass media because it is the first mover to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender while Guatamela central banks give a warning that cryptocurrency is not legal tender and only the quetzal is the national currency, and the Bank of Guatamela is the only issuer of bills and coins within the national territory[1].  Further more while El Salvador adopts Bitcoin as a legal tender Guatamela instead studies CBDC and the value it could bring to their monetary system.[2]

This Guatamela's Bitcoin Lake really sounds amazing but I think it can't be compared to the adoption of El Salvador.  Grassroot adoption is great but without the approval of the authority, it will easily crambles as the government becomes hostile to Bitcoin.

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[1] https://freemanlaw.com/cryptocurrency/guatemala/
[2] https://cointelegraph.com/news/as-bitcoin-debuts-in-el-salvador-honduras-and-guatemala-study-cbdcs

BTC adoption by governments of developed countries would be hard to achieve, because most of them have a stable economy and are in an economic competition with countries of the same status. When you look at El Salvador or CAR, the two countries that have made BTC a legal tender, they are both countries that are struggling economically and they can experiment with decisions like that and see what good it brings to them.

But developed countries like the U.S, U.K or China are not going to make BTC a legal tender, these countries have a strong currency and economy, and what they look for is ways to make it stronger without introducing a second choice decentralized currency that they cannot control. Instead of adopting BTC as a legal tender, they would prefer to create their cbdc's as many of them are doing, in order to stay in control and ensure their currency remains top when it comes to most valuable currencies and for it to be the reserve currencies in many other countries.

Wouldn't have been aware it is a centralized project in Guatemala if you hadn't mentioned even though it is a community based one.
Still like Bitcoin Beach project better since it has a nicer ring to it BTC

Haven't watched this docufilm about how the bitcoin lake affects acceptable of bitcoin in this region of the world but will after seeing the tweet about it a week ago:
https://twitter.com/kinetic_finance/status/1635338802477817856
https://i.ibb.co/Jxw6Xf7/Guatemala-BTC.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

After El Salvador accepted bitcoin as legal tender, another African country, Central African Republic, did the same. In this forum and many other places, we don't usually talk about the African country that adopted it, but El Salvador is well-known for its adoption. It is undeniable that small countries like Guatemala's adoption of bitcoin will have little impact on the adoption, but it is still a step toward the adoption that we have all been hoping for. Great step by Guatemala, and we hope to see more bitcoin currency adoption, particularly among the more populous countries of each continent.

As you can see, those politicians in Central Africa don't know what they are doing. You can now scratch out that country, they never understood Bitcoin and did not have the understanding of what it truly means.

Bukele knows, its not like some guys pushing/lobbying him like the typical politician/party, no, he does know which is why he is not the typical newbie that runs scared when a little price correction occurs or the ridiculous things fiat/altcoin FUDsters keep spreading around. The fact that Central Africa wasn't pro Bitcoin but "crypto", signaled their weak understanding, and now they backed out. Fools.

And yes, that is also why others don't adopt it as quickly, same reason. It may even be a generational problem, old guys with their stubborn old ways.
Oh and didn't you notice not all companies that deal with Bitcoin are truly Bitcoin focused but flirt with "other" things? Same problem.

Guatemala haven't made bitcoin as legal tender. It might be observing the actions of El Salvador and making perfect plans for execution. Most of the time we can see discussion that El Salvador bitcoin adoption is a failure which is completely wrong. El Salvador took a bold decision which is being feared by most of the government.

Whether it is small or big country what they do with a positive thoughts about bitcoin gonna support the growth of the country's economy as well as make them technology wise advanced than many other countries. Maybe the impact is not that big, but this small moves will make path for big changes in the long term.