Bitcoin Forum

There are lots of cryptocurrency payment gateways. Each of them have different processing fees and transaction fees. some of them charge 1% to 5% fees on each transaction. which is a huge amount but merchants have to pay this amount. But there are payment gateways who charge the lowest amount like, one payment gateway only charges 0.23% processing fees on transaction. I find it very attractive because merchants will get more from it and it will be more beneficial for them eventually.

Of course it is. Nobody likes to pay fees. The smaller the fee is, the better is (unless you are the one that makes a living from earning them fees) When I am withdrawing my coins from an exchange, I always use the crypto with the cheapest withdrawal fee. Binance is making less money but do I give damn? No, because thanks to this decision, I am losing less money. For these reasons, doge and ltc are my favorites lately.

This is bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, fees are not based on percentage. Like bitcoin, it is based on your transaction input, output, how congested the mempool is and the price of bitcoin.

Withdraw or pay? You withdraw to your wallet. But you pay people, which means not your wallet.

You withdraw because of low fee. Not how you see a coin to be? Or you mean you pay?

Litecoin and doge fees are cheap on Binance and many other exchanges, but they are not the cheapest. Although most coins with cheapest fee like you paid no fee have low or no utility.

Marchants are using or use bitcoin using noncustodial wallet, not to use or using exchanges that charges exorbitantly. Exchanges are charging fee exorbitantly.

@Op, Are you talking about your platform?
The centralized service processing fee always talks about a percentage, it's just a custom fee that dynamically changes from time to time due to competitiveness. For established payment processor apps it may make sense to charge more.

Profit from transactions is one of the things that you should consider because if you have a lot of transactions, you will earn more. This is the case if you are the owner of the processor, but if you are the seller, you would want lower because you want more of the percentage of the goods you have sold.

Aside from this, I think it is important to have the instantaneous transaction not just the fees.

Depends on whether I am getting proper services for the fees I am paying or not. For example, assume X payment provider who is giving you services like a free PoS machine, mobile applications for easy slip generations, a tool to manage billers, and archives of every kind. If this is included then obviously I am ready to pay a decent amount of fees. I will just consider it as a charge for additional services that I am availing of from the payment processing company.

If I am just paying fees and getting nothing in return then I am sorry I would just prefer wallet to wallet transfer. I would literally just ask my client to either scan the QR code of my address or simply paste them through the bin. It's just simple logic.

This is decentralized space, why would I pay someone that much if I am not getting any services in return?

If it's a centralized crypto payment solution, they charge their fees in percentage based on the monthly transaction volume (I took a look at Bitpay  (https://bitpay.com/pricing/)as an example). I assume traditional solutions charge merchants similarly? If you mean not using a centralized payment processor but instead having customers send funds directly to a Bitcoin address, then the merchant doesn't pay any fees, which is wonderful for the merchant. However, the fees fall upon customers, and as was mentioned in the thread, it's not in percentage. So the fee might seem minor for a big purchase but significant for a small purchase. And given that customers aren't used to paying fees when buying things, it can be very off-putting to them and thus not very good for business even if technically beneficial to merchants.

Lower processing fees will be always beneficial for the merchants for obvious reasons. Whenever merchants are allowed to keep the maximum amount from a transaction, it's great for them and certainly increases profitability.

In my country, we have fiat payment gateways that allows merchants to receive payments for free. Crypto space is quite new so it's highly unlikely to happen anytime soon. But we need to understand why crypto can't become a preferred choice for payment, it requires both parties to pay a fees to make a transaction happen.

I wouldn't mind if I don't have to pay any fee when making payments and I'm sure no one loves to pay fees.
And I was first talking about the transaction fees associated with sending of Bitcoin (Bitcoin transactions) and the fees has been one of the major reasons I've not been Interested in having to send Bitcoin to someone else and I would rather prefer to withdraw to fiat and then send it to the receiver if it's in my country or I rather send usdt or BUSD with a zero fee.

Since Bitcoin is still very new, it will take much more longer time to get payment gateways with free transactions fees, except government intervenes which I'm sure no one wants that aswell

The thing is very simple and logical, if you think you're ok with the ones with lesser fees on transactions then choose them, but on a real sense, we are likely to have it this way that if you weigh and compare the low trans charges gateways from the high ones, literally you will discover that those that have lesser charges tend to have more traffic than the ones with high fees, also it is better to always run a transaction with lower charges but frequent and consistent than running a high charges with no patronage for the service, which means, little profits can accumulate to something big if we choose to consider others than our own interests first.

low fees and fast speed really attracts

They are operating their payment gateways for business that actually have operational cost so they have to balance that cost with income, to maximize their profit.

Those services can be the same or different at different payment gateways as well as different blockchains. They have to proceed on-chain transactions and each blockchain has different native currency for transaction fee. Ethereum blockchain has most expensive transaction fee because of high demand on that chain, its bad design and high price of Ethereum $ETH.

However it won't stop people using Ethereum ERC-20 chain for transactions. Last but not least, they have options to choose, from blockchains to payment gateways and you are free to make their choices.

Since you asked that probably you are into brewing your business and trying to get an idea about possible fees. Yes low processing fee could benefited merchants since they after the salea right and having a smaller fees means more customer cause they look into it as well. But this is depend, maybe if you are a start up that needs considerable fee to have some decent earning then good. There are operational cost to look at as well and should be on the list to consider on how you could do a very stable system.

The goal is actually to get to a place where merchants (and others) don't have to use a third party like payment processors to handle their payments. In other words the answer to your question is to not have these third parties in first place to change any fees at all!

Trust middle man is always bad because two trade partners will both lose if the middle man runs away or the service simply unavailable because of insolvency or bankruptcy.

Trusting middle man payment processors in cryptocurrency like trusting banks will proceed our transfers with our fiat currency deposited in our accounts be safe forever. We can deposit money to our account today, plan for tomorrow trade and tomorrow we wake up with a bankruptcy news.

Bitcoin is designed for peer-to-peer transfers without middle men to hold our coins.

But this third parties could easily make the transactions smooth and more secured that why most of businesses where it includes money, they will use such apps to make the transactions uncomplicated. Of course they have fees since they couldn't operate without funds, they give services for you to have a convenient payments or any kind of transaction. It wouldn't be hassle for the merchant to have transaction 1 by 1 especially if you have customers that are more than 1000+ a day. Maybe if you have only few people that having kind of transactions everyday then third parties wouldn't be necessary for you to gain more profit with no fees.

The merchant wills still have to pay extra.
He will receive thousands of inputs that he must either consolidate or send to another address to pay its suppliers if he can do that in BTC or to cash out in $ if that's his only option so roughly he will still need to pay almost the same as the client in order to use that money.
It's a small thing everyone forgets but if you're looking at hundreds of small-value transactions he might end up paying more than 1%, way more, on top of what the client pays so it will lose any advantage over other payments. Clearly LN is the answer here not on-chain tx.

I think lower processing fees can be more beneficial for merchants.  For example ERC-20 has the most expensive transaction fees on the Ethereum blockchain due to its high price, but the BEP-20 network has the lowest transaction fees on the blockchain.So when we transact from wallet to wallet the fee is very low, but when we transact from wallet to exchanger, the fee is high.The disparity in transaction fees can be noticed here.I think it has a lot of implications for merchants. Their operations are essentially managing their payment gateways for merchants.On balance, I think lower processing fees would benefit merchandisers

Anything that spells out paying extra is never going to look attractive to anybody but if it happens  that this mode of payment is the most popular  among the merchants customers then the merchant will have no choice but factor this in his pricing of goods and service's as this is a profit making business and not some charity organisation of some sort.

Do merchants make instant excahanges to stablecoinsor something for them to feel the pinch of processing fees...?

With the new way ethereum is processed thought fees have come to acceptable levels,  haven't  used eth ever since it got forked thought its cheaper to use now.

Btw isnt it more expensive from exchange to wallet than wallet to exchange because exchanges exploit its customers.

I guess best way to protect themselves is use blockchains with low transaction fees such as tron, binance, solona etc

We hate to pay fees and that's like sucking our money easily from these payment processors. There have been merchants that do avoid accepting these services and they avoid getting paid with credit cards, vouchers, and even bank transfers because they've got fees.
While transaction fees now directly with Bitcoin aren't that much, they've got also another option to accept lightning network which is good for small transfers and it's the quickest that they can use. And every merchant should accept directly and that's gonna save them time and from higher fees.

Yes it is merchant could find it more convenient to them since they can save fees and that would be a good boost to their sales if they find some platform like this will exist.  Hopefully there are new players in the market will compete against those giant platforms asking higher fees to there transaction since this can give us huge relief when doing some frequent transaction from multiple people everyday.

Nobody's happy paying fees after fees. Right now, the most attractive platforms for the users are those with low transaction fees. Even if those platforms aren't offering any cash backs or events for their valued customers as long as their fees are low, it is sure that those platforms will always have an existing customer. Personally, I don't really like how our custodial wallets we're programmed here in my country, aside from having us to provide personal information, the fees alone will let you think twice before doing transactions. That is why in most cases I won't send/convert money if it's only a little coz I'll run the risk of paying such ridiculous fees.

You mean a time when every merchant accepts BTC directly to their BTC wallet without using a payment processor to convert to fiat or other cryptocurrencies. I don't know, but a time like that may be when there is mass adoption, but for now i think payment processors are very important, even for BTC, i don't care what the merchant converts the BTC into, as long as i can pay with it, i think that is good. These merchants also have real worries why they can't hold the BTC they receive, especially with volatility, and i get them from a business standpoint, i believe payment processors would be vital both now and in the future.

Fees are still only 1 part of it.

I made a post about this a couple of years ago: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5366008

Bad exchange rates can kill low fees.
Lack of customer service and cumbersome integrations will make people not use the service.
If you are converting to fiat and giving it to the merchants how long does it take?

And so on. Just looking at one aspect such as fees is pointless. I can run a service with 0 fees but if my rate is 2% off of what showing at the major exchanges is it really 0 fee?

-Dave

Who on earth likes fees? only those people who implemented it, but for us payers of it, we don't want it, even just a small part of it, because it is a loss to us because that is only a transaction that we need to do but still needed to be paid. If the fees were lower, the merchant would be happy because they now have extra money to add to the capital. It is a huge help, but I hope that not only those merchants, but also us consumers, benefit from it. 

For this reason, a trader must be able to choose and sort coins with low transaction fees. Because we need to take as much advantage as possible with certain tricks. Even traders who always do Arbitrage know the benefits of fees. Personally before I make a withdrawal the first thing to do is to check all crypto withdrawal fees and set it as a favorite option.

Yes i think that low processing fees are more beneficial for merchants. This is because it reduces the amount of money that the merchants have to pay to be able to accept payments from customers. This could save merchants a significant amount of money in the long run, as the lower transaction fees could add up over time. And also having lower processing fees may also increase the number of customers who are willing to use the merchant’s services, as they may be more likely to trust the merchant if they are offering lower processing fees

Adoption is key, and generally, merchants prefer lower processing fees as this attracts more users, which is good for their business. The low transaction fees would work for the network if it can gain sufficient volume, as these two factors go hand in hand. High volume is necessary to satisfy the crypto project and provide the best service to merchants and buyers alike.

Low merchant fees not only give them availability to get more profit and decrease expenses but it also lets them to run promotions like cashback and make their promotions more attractive while still having less expenses than they would have with payment gateway that charges up to 5%.

But the problem is that low fees alone aren't that beneficial for merchants. Still, a lot of people use coinbase payment gateway because it offers coin to fiat convert option and you don't have to run it on your server, i.e. responsibility is on 3rd party for you.
While 0% is a better choice if one has a high transaction volume, still, there are some benefits that some big merchants prefer, that overcome 1% fee difference.

I believe that when a merchant's processing fee is small for each transaction, it is a good advantage for merchants.

      And the good result of the low charge fee will be that the merchants will have many client users in the future. Because that's what we do and what we look for as a client in a payment gateway. Because if the transaction fee is high or expensive, for sure there will be no repetition for a customer like me, and if the fee is cheap, it is also certain that I will come back to it, especially if the service is okay.

That's an obvious thing (op) that merchants could save more money which is beneficial for them. The difference between different gateways is due to the Blockchain network that your select. Some Networks have lowers fees while some have high fees. Selection of that blockchain network is narrowly downed when you select only one currency as a payment method like BTC then you have to use BTC blockchain. Overall, a merchant can cover fee expenditures by asking clients to cover them from their end. For example, if a client wants to buy something for 40$ then he has to cover the fee which could vary from 2$+. so he has to send extra money to cover them. This could save merchants money.

Marchant can also save more money by withdrawing big transactions like instead of doing micro-transactions he/she should prefer one single big transaction that will reduce the cost of transaction fees for them. They could store that money after withdrawals in some other wallet which offer less fee or no fee according to the availability in their country like here in our country Easypaisa.

You as a merchant, have to select the network of your blockchain like is it segwit or Taproot, etc. well SegWit has lesser fees according to my experience but you should check them individually by visiting them. If you are a successful merchant then using BTC as payment will be of great use, you could use telegram Fee notification bots which will notify you whenever the fee rate will decrease. because these rates depend on the traffic on blockchain and this traffic is not the same all time. so a sharp eye on fees and the behavior of the market could benefit you a lot.

Going for low fees would reduce the expensive costs of charges from these crypto exchanges, I will urged us to use network that charges low fees for transactions. Meeting up the expectations of clients is the ultimate priority of merchants and they do not take their chances whenever they come across potential client. Low fees is a big advantage for merchants because they will increase the rate of trading daily and more profits from anticipating in P2P. Buyers would be credited with absolutely full satisfaction from the merchants.

Yes, there is a huge amount of transaction fees in the world of cryptocurrencies. We pay for the input to the exchange and for the withdrawal from it, and the larger the amount, the higher the fee.

We also lose money on converting courses. Many people here live in countries where the main currency is not the dollar, and they have to convert through it.

A great solution was p2p, when all the above steps are excluded for input and output.
I often use this system for binance, and I am grateful to them for the fact that Binance introduced p2p in the country where I live.

Of course there will be no questions about that the lowest withdrawal fees will always brings the best beneficial for the marchant. It is not only in the case of crypto currency but also in the banking system and the banks which provide their services through low fees are beneficial for a merchant. This happened is not only in the case of merchant it is also beneficial for us I always choose the lowest withdrawal fees exchanger. Before the FTX crash I always use that for the lowest withdrawal fees required exchanger. And in the case of traders, the transaction is quantity more than others normal users, so one percentage withdrawal fees are very beneficial for them. However, while looking for low fees, you must be careful to choose the payment gateway is good.

Can you share the name of that platform and the coins you provide? Because their price is very low and therefore they either provide service to a large number of people or get money by manipulating the exchange rate, where you are given a lower exchange rate than you are supposed to get (hidden fees)


You can check out a list here: New Bitcoin Payment processors  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5444578.0)

Binance charges on altcoins when selling while bitcoin selling in binance is free. But other exchange platforms charges higher. It is only on wallet transaction that different wallets charges differently, in Electrum the fees might be 2.4 or high. Nobody likes high fee payment platforms to do transaction. Binance is everywhere and their fees are okay for the average person to make buying and selling.

Paying fee especially high fee is something that do make people to think of other ways they can make transaction on check network that only requires small fee. Looking at the Ethereum network that would ask users to pay high fee to make transaction even though it's a mini transaction, this had been making investors especially those ones that run transactions virtually everyday to look for other cheap network to run there transactions.


Binance is one of the best exchange for me based in the way the regulate there fees. Even doing p2p transaction does not take any fee but other exchanges like Kucoin and others would charge for every trade you are doing whether swapping, p2p etc.
The fact is nobody wants to pay high fee on a mere transaction that is why we always have alternative to go for when we notice that we are spending too much on transaction fees.

It's called a transaction fee by the way, and it plays an important role for merchants who trades large amount of funds, as they tend to spend less and save more on a gateway that charges very low fees compared to gateways that charge very high, but however, there are some gateways/exchanges which I have used which offer zero "transaction fee" when convwrting your Bitcoin into fiat currency such as "Remitano". Because imagine you are to transact $1000, and a 1% fee will be equal to $10, whereas a 0.25% few will be $2.5, which is way lower compared to the first.

Not just the merchants but everyone likes to pay low fees per transaction especially at these times when the quickest transaction could be around $2.

Then that's good and you have to keep reaching those merchants for them to able to use and know you. If they know that there's a service like yours that offers small amount of fee then they might try you out.

Lower transaction fee is better for crypto merchants because customers will be able to find it easier to pay using crypto and also it is better to avoid any crypto not pass AI transaction fee because customers would be willing to use subscript for payments.

This is why I don't like what happened with bitcoin ordinals, I am one of those people that believe that Bitcoin transaction fee will be much more higher in future, what will witnessed a month ago is nothing compared to what is coming because if ordinals managed to catch the attention of big whales and investors, this will make bitcoin transaction fee Skyrocket and bitcoin miners will be the one to enjoy the ride, not the investors.

low fees are a benefit to all.. merchants and users

bitcoin itself does not work in percentages. but humans so. no one likes to pay more then a couple % of their goods/services in fees.

so when bitcoin is being re-coded using stupid cludgy crap to push fee's up where by fees average $2-$20.. this stuff then rules out many usage reasons for bitcoin
such as billions of people in 3rd world countries cant even move a few hours of wages because the fee alone is more then those wages. they wont want to use bitcoin for a months wage becasue this more then a few percent of their months wage.

people in first world countries wont want to use bitcoin for normal living stuff like paying a $50 utility bill becasue the fees can be 4%-$40% of the actual bill.

and no the solution should not be to abandon using bitcoin and find another currency that has cheaper fee's.. the solution is actually to sort bitcoin out to be a currency for the unbanked again (currency for even the poor)

asic miners do not touch or select transactions. they just hash a hash. it doesnt matter to them if a block is 1tx of 400bytes full or a 4mb block of 1 monkey image or a 1.7mb of ~3000tx(treated as 4mb of weight). the miners job remains the same.. hash a hash.
asics do not have hard drives so transactions are not an impedance to asics.

as for full nodes. core software is not even compatible with things like windows 98, xp, vista.. so pretending bitcoin should be compatible with hardware pre 2003 is nonsense defence to hold bitcoin to ransom at low tx counts.
we are in 2023 not 2003.. so dont be fooled by the debunked rhetoric of "blocks should not be more then a win95 floppy disk amount"
heck these days billions of people are downloading movies and uploading livestreams of more then 24mb an hour (4mb x 6) so its not like we are in the days of dialup. (unlike what altnet onboarders want you to think, where all they are interested in is getting you to use their preferred other network)


bitcoin should be capable of processing more tx counts per block so that each individual pays less because the total fee going to a mining pool is still a good total fee combined as the reward due to more usage, but with each individual paying less
EG 2000tx paying $20 each or 20,000tx paying $2each.. same total for pool owner but each individual pays 10x less and allows for 10x more users to happily use bitcoin
did you know if you remove the bad math cludge of the 1mbtx data 3mb witness crap to be a proper 4mb space of real ex data with proper signature required formatting rules of a normal 2in 2out. there could be 16,000tx instead of the current ~3000 average being seen as "4mb weight"


blackmailing bitcoin to have less transactions per block via many exploits, byte miscounting, and segregating parts of data where tx cant use the full 4mb properly.. and many other issues experienced in recent years is causing less people to want to transact. this needs to be fixed

and no its not just the FUD about "bigger blocks" its actually to get rid of the byte miscounting cludge and the premium creating stuff that pushes fees up. its about actually counting every byte and ensuring each byte has ethical, efficient and economical reasons for being in a tx. where each opcode has proper formatting rules of expected data that should be used for such opcode. to avoid random junk just being included to fill the space.

also where by fee's are not made to make everyone pay a premium. but instead whereby spammers re-spending very low confirm counts pay more if they want to spam .. thus not everyone pays the premium. just those that want to constantly take up space too often than normal real life usage would show.

in the real world normal people do not use a ATM/debit/credit card every 10 minutes every hour every day. most people only use currency once or twice a day on average. and so if those that want to use it every 10minutes 24/7 should be the culprits paying the premium. not the ones that get the discount whilst causing everyone else to pay the premium

bitcoin is code and code can and did make rules. its just a shame that over the years certain key members of core devs(5 of them now) are too much in power controlling and removing the rules to cause bitcoin to become less useful for the masses. all because they are sponsored to promote that the masses should abandon bitcoin to use other networks they prefer. and we needs to do something to fix this game they are playing

It is expected that many people will stay away from using crypto for means of payment if the transaction fee is high, and even if they have to, they will prefer to use the crypto to buy for a large amount of buying orders, this is what will make the transaction fee worth spending in the first place.

If my customers are buying bags of cocoa from me with crypto I will go with coins like Dogecoin and Litecoin or Bitcoin, but now that ordinals is making Bitcoin transaction fee to surge it will just be a plus to the other two.

If you want to go deep into such business as a merchant make sure you choose some very cheaper projects for means of payment .

Processing fees are the costs that merchants pay to payment processors or financial institutions for handling their customers' electronic payments, such as credit card transactions. Low processing fees benefit merchants by saving them money, giving them a competitive advantage, increasing sales, satisfying customers, and improving cash flow.

Transaction fees are not the only obstacle in adoption process. Nearly none of the business initiatives work directly with cryptocurrencies. They all need crypto-fiat transactions, so the problem with btc is that it's highly dependent on fiat banking services which provide this type of transfers.

Fees are the major concerns of business so if there is a chance to make them lower then it will greatly benefit the merchants.  They will have more profit since the processing fee is already trimmed down.


We all know that but having the processing fee trimmed down will at least makes merchant interested in accepting cryptocurrency as a mode of payment.  BTC is not highly dependent on fiat banking services, Bitcoin itself can transfer its  own currency through its network or blockchain, merchants are since they have to undergo a conversion process in order to have their fund accepted by non-cryptocurrency establishments.

I am just trying to comprehend what you mean, on a normal note no exchange that doesn't require fee just as you have mentioned above but what is there as regular user of an enthusiasts you should have been able to detects those coin that charges you lesser when making withdrawal because I know too well that bitcoin withdraw is not that favorable nowadays due to the network congestion.

For me the fastest transaction is the most important. The transaction fee may be higher than other exchanges but it is not worth it. No one wants their money to take a whole day to reach their wallet
Low cost transactions coupled with fast will attract users to join

It seems interesting too. Lower processing fees are indeed more profitable for the merchant. High transaction costs can eat away at their profit margins significantly, making it more difficult to run a sustainable business. Yes. A payment gateway that only charges a 0.23% processing fee on transactions sounds very attractive, as it allows merchants to maximize their revenue as (OP) said, but I have never tried it myself and only heard about it. it's a good idea to look into https://coinremitter.com/?utm_source=com&utm_medium=bitcointalks. to be clear because it is a crypto payment method as well.

Low to no fees is really good. For sure, no one likes fees, even yourself. If you cash out your money, you still need to pay fees. How much more the merchants? They just have no choice but to pay those fees because other people want those payment methods, and if they don't have those payment methods, they lose customers. But again, we understand that all of us need to earn money, which is why they charge fees, but some are too much because they noticed a lot of people using their services, so their fees went up.