Bitcoin Forum

Hello guys,

Today I came here in hopes to find an answer to a very IMPORTANT question.

I have been helping businesses for the last 6 years with the implementation of blockchain and cryptocurrency in their business. It works fine for the people who know how things work in crypto.

But when it comes to the general public (non-tech-savvy), I can see that people still can't use it, and they are afraid of the technology. They don't know how to use it.

Also, they fear losing money. If they miss the private key their funds will be lost forever. No one is there to help them recover. See this news.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/business/tens-of-billions-worth-of-bitcoin-have-been-locked-by-people-who-forgot-their-key.html


Is anyone here thought how can we help our children and elders in our family so they can use crypto without hesitation just like they use fiat money?

Because I don't blame those who don't have the knowledge, I consider this our responsibility how we can make a solution so that those people can also use it as a day-to-day payment method without a second thought.

Does anyone know if any best user-friendly solutions already exist in the marketplace to overcome these challenges?




Let's discuss this topic.

Anyone that can use online banking, will not have any problem using a custodial crypto wallet service, because it is that easy. You register for a online wallet service and you link your bank account to that service.. so that you can deposit fiat currency to buy crypto currencies.

I have local online wallet services, but I use a hardware wallet and Electrum for every day use. Yes, there is an initial learning curb, but nothing more difficult than setting up a facebook or Twitter account.  ::)

At least here in Japan, it is to some extend.

I have seen young girls ( and I mean young ) paying their coffee with bitcoin several times. And some on some occasions older people paying some things in a tech store with crypto as well. The clerk even explained to them what to do .

In some shops you got % off when you pay with crypto, I guess these shops see the potential in it possibly earning more in the long run.

There is a site running a scam at the moment ( I made a thread about it, classic ponzi ) and they target Japanese as well. The deposits are all in USDT and in some cases bitcoin. A friend worked (until he figured out it's a scam, even though I told him from the beginning that its obvious) as a translator for the scammers. He told me in the meeting and presentations they were all eager to learn about crypto. Most of these people are 50 and older and they had no problem adjusting to something new.

Too bad that in the end they lose.  ::)

You said you have been doing this for the past six years. What exactly are you doing? Where do you install a payment gateway into their business site for easy acceptance of crypto?
Or you were helping them generate an address with a phrase and a private key that can be used to accept payment? 
 
If keeping the private key safe is their issue , then they might actually not be able to safe guard their funds. I guess they might actually not be that exposed to the internet. I suggest they buy a a hardware wallet and be safe guiding it the way they safe guard their fiat at hand, but still they will need to backup the phrase.
 
If they want where they can't be thinking about phrase and private key then they should be using centralized platform that's handing their security protection over to the hand of others which will really not be a wise idea, but if they actually want to be accepting crypto and don't want to be use private key and phrase they should go for centralized service providers like, exchanges. 
 
 

That's the only thing you can do for them, you just need to let them know about it and the rest is up to them whether they decide to adopt it or not because we cannot force them to do it and just blindly follow our decision because when things aren't going well in the crypto market and they lose huge amount of money, they will undoubtedly put the blame on you. So to be safe, the only role you need to take is to spread awareness and educate them, and let them decide what they want after that. You need to know that losing money is not a joke and when they don't find any answer, they will surely turn against you, and worst case scenario they will file a case against you.

Start with the most basic thing and that's to know how to save and keep their private keys. There's no way that they'll learn everything in an instant and it goes through a process that everything will be learned. Let them watch some videos like Andreas Antonopoulos' bitcoin for dummies or books that he has published. They can't learn everything within a day but they can start with the basics on how to generate wallet, keep their private keys, learning what are their addresses and those things.

This question is really a newbie type with a fictional experience. OP, while reading and seeing the 6 years of teaching and helping others to implement bitcoin payment in their various activities and setups, I was thinking and reading to seeing your achievements and goals well stated but it was not clear with me when I got to the last paragraphs of your post. Does it mean all the years you have been helping others you learnt nothing from the past so as to remedy the future when any of such comes up? Do you not have proofs to show to the people who you met in the recent and are still sceptical about bitcoin? What happened to the knowledge gained in the past 6 years to apply in handling the current situation you found yourself. If you can, get your previous experiences with your past works out the all together and use them to educate your possible and potential clients in the future so as not to get them scared. Maybe you might get it right this time around.

There are a lot of mobile cash app in the market and if I'm not mistaken, each country has it's own mobile cash app. And with that it's very easy to transact with you cash and this could be the case for bitcoin as well. Of course there is a learning curve, but if know how to used a mobile phone and then this apps then obviously you can only used it with a bitcoin wallet.

And I guess with pandemic, everyone is online now, so I guess children or elderly knows to transfer and how to received money in fiat. And if they can do it with fiat, then they can transition to a bitcoin wallet anytime.

It's not surprising people still can't use it because government doesn't force to make anyone aware of Bitcoin existence and encouraging people to use it, actually many governments were warn their citizens to not use Bitcoin.

To be fair, if they use centralized exchange, they didn't need to worry about miss their private key. Even if they lose their password, they can just contact the CEX representative or use forgot password option.

Let's know the problem, is it technological or psychological?
According to my experience, people are afraid of something new. I remember that there was a drawing 100 years ago showing electricity as something evil.


Therefore, it is natural for people to be afraid of Bitcoin or warn of it, and we do not forget the role of the media in drawing this bleak picture and the bad use during the first years of this technology.

This generation has become accustomed to the fear of losing money and the rule was, leave the money in the bank, as it might be stolen from someone in the house or damaged by fire or flood, while all the procedure that the bank requires from you is to prove your identity and your signature with a few numbers to remember.

When holding cash is a problem in itself, people will get used to Bitcoin.

I think so, people may look dumb when they are clumped together but individually, they're smarter than many give credit for. Let me give you an example, my grandmother knows how to use GCash which is an online payment system in my country, I just had to taught her the basics and answers the questions she have and then she's good to go. So, the answer to your question about adaptability, I think that non-tech savvy can do just fine.

Definitely, I agree with you. We should invest in educating them. I have been following Andreas Antonopoulos for learning for a long time and it helped me.

On the other hand, I have seen that every new technology like AI has made life easy for people.

Cryptocurrency provides numerous benefits like faster payments, I am just looking for making things even simpler for the general public.

Like they never get to worry about keys and all. Like something linked to their ID all the time and they can recover it if they lose.

As you said that you have been helping businesses to implement Bitcoin and blockchain for paying their customers or accepting it from their customers as a form of payment. Even after using it for 6 years in their businesses how aren't they still not good at handling it? I

Using of Bitcoin or Blockchain tech is not that difficult, and there's nothing to be afraid of from this technology. If they really don't know how to use it, then teach them the Bitcoin and blockchain by conducting physical seminars and personally clearing their concepts about Bitcoin. Guide them online via video call that will help them to learn this technology faster.

They shouldn't have the fear of losing their money because Bitcoin is highly safe, and if handled carefully then their funds are highly secure. Just teach them the ways to save their private keys. Teach them to save their private keys on SSDs or write those keys on paper and keep those in a safe. Once they start using it they will be used to it and their fear will disappear over time.

It's easy to teach children that how to use cryptocurrencies just like fiat, but it's hard to teach elder ones. Children are advanced these days and they know tech far better than our generation, and they can easily learn Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies within short time, but elders on other hand are not good at tech so it can be a difficult task to teach them that how to use Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies just like fiat.

The lack of its backing from government is still a key factor because people most especially the older generation are very skeptical about it and they don’t see it difference with a Ponzi scheme. So far it is still early to force people to use since most of these people hardly do cross border transactions which is one of their biggest advantages of bitcoin over the fiat.

Concerning safeguarding the private key and seed phrases, I still feel it is just an excuse for people who don’t fully believe in crypto and take this as huge risk. These set of people are those that safeguard their banks pin for years so to keep this shouldn’t be much of a problem they truly want to use bitcoin.


I wouldn’t advise centralized Exchanges with all the saga that is surrounding them. Even the fiat banks looks more secure than some of them this days. If at all Some is looking for a third party to safeguard their keys then it should be with some close like a family relation or some trusted. Although both has its risk but I rather have it some one known. A centralized exchange should always be treated as a marketplace

I understand Cryptsafe. The tech-savvy people know how to handle their keys and some people we can train them easily. But there are some people who struggle.

But I just edited my message above. I want all of us to take a notice of this case

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/business/tens-of-billions-worth-of-bitcoin-have-been-locked-by-people-who-forgot-their-key.html


Cheers

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Amazing example Husires!!

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You are right about the "Centralized exchange should always be treated as a marketplace " Yes it should be; not as day to day payment method.

"I still feel it is just an excuse for people who don’t fully believe in crypto and take this as huge risk." Yes, there is a majority of people in this world like this.

And we want them to onboard with Crypto, how can we do that?



[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

Stop posting multiple posts in a row:

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If one is a business person and wants to implement BTC payment in their business, but do not want to worry about private keys or even owning a wallet, then they should use a payment gateway that will convert whatever money they receive from their customer into the fiat currency they choose and send it to their bank account.

If the person isn't a business person, but wants to use BTC to make purchases and also for investment, then they have to learn how to use it, and stop spreading the wrong idea that it is difficult to do, it is not. A wallet like Electrum is very easy to use, you just have to write out your seed phrase backup and keep it safe as you do with your secret bank account info. Then if you wanna receive funds from someone, you copy and send them one of your BTC addresses, and if you want to send BTC to someone, you just click on 'send', input the recipient address, input the amount, adjust the fee rate as you like and send, that is not more difficult that sending money through your bank's mobile app.

I believe that Bitcoin is user-friendly and accessible to anyone, regardless of their technical expertise. All you need is a basic understanding of how it works, including the underlying blockchain technology, and then sending and receiving funds is straightforward. Therefore, even non-technical individuals should be able to use it without difficulty.

It's understandable to have concerns about losing your money, but consider this: do you trust banks more than yourself? If you take the necessary precautions to secure your private keys and prioritize your own security, you can be 100% safe. Plus, you won't have to rely on a third-party to hold your money. Ultimately, your money is your own responsibility, and you should have control over it.

If you are truly experienced in crypto and blockchain technology, you should know that there is no shortcut to them. It's more advantageous to those people who get involved in cryptocurrencies as they would surely gain from them if they fully learn about them. We should stop being illiterate and embrace technology which is the way forward in this revolutionizing world.

As for the private keys, no one can keep them for them, you can only educate them better on it. If people could keep their certificates well for the rest of their life, they should be able to keep them too.

My candid advice to them is that they should not keep it electronically, but write it on paper. It could also be typed and printed, and still duplicated in about three places without tagging what they are meant for.

yeah, they can, cryptocurrency is fairly new to a lot of people and it is not surprising that they don't know how to use it or that they are afraid of it, it is also going to take time for people to fully adapt to it.

teaching them the basics of cryptocurrency/bitcoin and start familiarizing them to the process of creating wallets, making transactions etc... is a great way to start.

100%. It's just a matter of them being taught how. Fiat was really easy to use since people use it all around us, so even without being taught directly, we can still learn it somewhat. Crypto on the other hand may require more tech to use, but considering how wallet apps are growing already, I don't think having a QR code for your crypto wallet would be that much of a hurdle to learn.

Additionally, it's not something to be forced really, that's why the idea of fiat and crypto coexisting has never left my mind. One is the governments wouldn't let crypto have its dominance and two, some people just don't bother wanting to have the advantages crypto has. It's dangerous maybe, but since it's a service being offered by the government (which most probably trust) I don't see anything wrong with forcing them to transition.

So far I think it takes a hard spelling. But the payment model using crypto is not legal for payments in some major countries. Only the majority of countries use crypto as payment.
We can see El Salvador, they did that. Then his citizens gradually followed the rule. Indirectly it forces people who do not understand to learn. So they will gradually understand how they process and surely they will learn about the technology.

What El Salvador did was make BTC a legal tender, central African republic also did the same thing too, they are the only two countries in the world where BTC is a legal tender, but BTC is legal and allowed for payments in most countries, even in influential countries like the U.S., U.K. and even the EU, merchants are allowed to accept BTC if they wish, and it is legal for people to pay them with BTC if they want to. BTC does not have to be a legal tender before people learn how to use it, the basic steps are so easy to learn.

For merchants i suppose they cant really do without the use of third-party apps as these are currently the only mediums that have simplified how to integrate and use cryprocurrencies.

For individuals, non tech savvy users will always find a stuff time to cope with the use of crypto as they need to be made aware of best security practices, and basic use of the internet and how not to fall for scams which shpuld be something someone develops for using the internet on their own.

I know that your goal is to introduce crypto payments to them. But is payment via crypto allowed by the government. What I know in some countries may already be implemented and the government allows it. But if only fiat is legal then are you ready to take full responsibility for illegal transactions. It is necessary to be wise when we know the rules in transactions. I don't mean to ban it, but maybe it's more precise if it's limited to education introducing crypto as an investment asset or a type of digital trading then that could make more sense. Instead you feel responsible for teaching them crypto transactions but not responsible for the impact that ultimately causes them to be sanctioned for illegal actions in that country.

All you need is a curious mind and will to learn. We can not force something on people. We can try and tell them about it, but to ensure the use of it is totally on their hand. It is not totally necessary for everyone to use it as a payment method.
As a crypto user/lover, we can only tell them what the benefits are and how to use it. If they become interested, they will use it on their own. Otherwise, there's nothing we can do about it. So the best course of action is to spread the knowledge, If people came to know about it, many will join us. And people tend to lean towards the majority. No matter what it is. So here's your answer I guess.

It's not actually that difficult to learn how to use cryptocurrencies in general, one doesn't need to dive very deep and try to learn the technical side of it but the front side is never that difficult and doesn't need someone to be too much knowledge about everything to be able to use a wallet or make transactions using cryptocurrency through their wallets.

People who are not tech-savvy might have some difficulties since they mostly don't use the Internet and cryptocurrencies work only within the internet. In the future, there might be ways for non-tech-savvy people to get involved too and use cryptocurrencies, but we should basically just guide them through which is the least we can do.

Techy or not, people should be responsible for their own. It's your money and you're responsible on how to keep it safe, unless you're not interested and just wants to rely on banks where people used to, centralized exchange or custodial wallets where there are lots of cons. Well, with all the commotions in the last few months, more centralized exchanges lost their business as well as the funds of their users which is the most unfortunate. So better learn something new and make your funds safe on your own hands than relying to someone else.

its not a bitcoin flaw. its a wallet of bitcoin flaw

the issues lays in the feature of the wallet.

when a wallet just generates a key itself and just tells people to put funds on the public address.. they are not taught/told upfront to save the key. they are just told to use bitcoin and trust that bitcoin works

however
wallets that ask you to write down a seed phrase or back up a file before using the wallet gets people more prepared. doing it upfront rather than having to learn after mistakes that they should have backed it up

over many years i see many egotistic arrogant devs and their fake posse blame the user even though its the devs designing the wallets that did not make it user friendly

if the only screen someone sees is [generate address] and [spend] options they dont know about saving/backing up

even wallets that take hours to sync dont really use that sync time to have splash screens of intro/education pages.. instead they just say a % and a warning to not shut down while syncing

most devs think people should learn by searching the whole internet for video demos and blog pages to learn.

wallet devs should be the tutors. by making things simple to learn for average folk

If we are talking about non-tech-savvy people, we need the context about how down they are on the line.

Start basic and simple. Do they use passwords on their device? Do they use strong passwords for their accounts and devices? Do they able to utilize basic security features like antivirus and firewall? I see using non-custodial as a holistic approach. They need to apply basic digital hygiene and also be aware of what kind of scams or phishing that generally spread around on the internet.



That is where it got wrong. What if the user got identity theft? How is the ID verification managed and linked to a private key, is it via a centralized entity? or implementing some system?

Well I guess it's not beginner-friendly, as you have to have some basic grasp of uow cryptocurrencies work and operate first before you sre able to use bitcoin as a consistent and viable payment method but I'm guessing with the current tech aptitude of today's people, educating them wouldn't be that hard. For one, bitcoin pretty much operates like most payment channels of today, safe for the fact that it is a little complicated in some parts but it's mostly just as similar as any other payment channel.

It can be imagined that because many people consider cryptocurrency to be something very difficult to understand, that it is not for them. This is bad and their laziness to really know about cryptocurrency will cost them the golden opportunity to be a part of cryptocurrency especially bitcoins now while it is not too late. If you meet anyone with this kind of mentality, try to help them understand that not everybody using bitcoin for payment is tech savvy, or started with the knowledge without an effort to learn. Crypto as a payment method is adaptable for people without any knowledge about tech.

Crypto-currency can be used by savvy and non savvy people. But this is to an extent, because not to say the technology is too complicated for anyone.

Regardless of your knowledge or being savvy in technology you can’t function properly without properly doing your own research and properly understanding what crypto-currency is.

It will only take one transaction to understand the possible benefits of using crypto.
With their first transaction, definitely, they need assistance from someone who knows this market.
And that is correct, the will to learn is very important so they will study on their own how this new currency will work for them.
People are scared of something if they don't know about it. But once they slowly learn how to use it, I am sure, they won't be scared of using this route.

Bitcoin is very easy to use, it is just that people are that irresponsible, for example people forget the pin number of their credit or debit card all the time, and they need to change it on the app of their bank or go directly to the bank to change it, keeping our bitcoin safe is as easy as installing any app and keeping a copy of our seed words on a piece of paper, and many people cannot even do that, but that is not bitcoin's fault, that is simply how some people are, but when it comes to bitcoin this is a huge flaw as there is no central authority which can get their seed words back for them.

To begin with, raising awareness about Bitcoin as a payment option is crucial. This should include educating people on how to safeguard their funds and make secure transactions without any risks. While it may be difficult to explain to non-tech-savvy individuals, those with basic English proficiency can still understand.

One major hurdle is that major brands have yet to adopt Bitcoin payments, leading people to feel hesitant about using cryptocurrencies. However, Bitcoin payments are actually safer than many other forms of payment. It's important to note that not all Web3 payments are secure, but Bitcoin's transaction module is safe. It's essential to explain this to newcomers to the world of cryptocurrency.

Many people have different perspectives on this crypto thing; some people do not believe it is real because they believe it is a Ponzi scheme that will fail soon; this is why if you put pressure or insist on teaching some people, they will begin to suspect and believe you are one of those people who will steal their money.

However, I believe that over time, many people will realize that Bitcoin is the best investment, and its concept is to give us control over our wealth, allowing us to have a safe investment and free savings in our lives.

The general public (non-tech-savvy) need not be afraid of technology because as long as they are willing to learn, they will understand how to use it. It's like when ATM technology was first introduced when people had no idea how it was used and then they could use ATMs as a means of payment to reduce carrying large amounts of banknotes. So if the general public (non-tech-savvy) wants to learn to use crypto, they will love it because blockchain technology exists to make up for the lack of existing payment methods.

People are capable of learning.  One might find Bitcoin transactions confusing the first time but we are capable to read, try and exercise things until we are used to them.  Being savvy is a matter of practice and continue learning.  So even at the beginning a person does not understand Bitcoin, with constant learning he will be able to grasp the knowledge of it. 

For exampler, @OP you maybe good at this technology but at first you are also not knowledgeable about what you are doing right now but due to constant learning and practice, you are able to achieve the skills and knowledge you are having right now.  So I believe it is just a matter of time before these non-tech savvy people grasp the knowledge about the crypto payment.

There is reason for normal people or non-tech-savvy people to be afraid of bitcoin. Bitcoin technology is fairly new to most of people, especially for non-tech savvy persons who don't have prior knowledge about digital payment systems.

But people who is using online payments can easily understand the basics of Bitcoin payments, and they don't need to get well education about bitcoin.

To tell the truth, this is exactly what happened to me. I was introduced to it by a friend. He just told me about the basics. All the other thing I learned by doing some research and being on this forum. There will be some ups and downs. But it's all part of the process.
I have learned a lot, but still my knowledge is so little. There's always room for improvement. Successful and unsuccessful people have a similarity. Which are, they both have 24 hours a day. But it all depends on how they choose to use those hours. This is why the will of learning is so important.

And the process of learning Bitcoin is like a rollercoaster ride. You fear it first when it starts to go up, then when it picks up the pace, you start to enjoy it. It's all the same.

There is so far not an easy to use method for the everyday person, but that should be the goal of the Bitcoin developers. Anything that is more complicated than Apple Pay or a credit card will fail. So let’s see what they come up in the future.

Most people are not ready to buy much cryptomoney due to lack of business projects which directly accept crypto. They simply don't know what to do with these digital assets. That's why cryptocurrencies can't be considered a good investment for them: they either buy and hodl a small amount, or buy it in a relatively large amount, and some time later, when they need money, they sell it with very little to no income (often with money loss).

Certainly, making cryptocurrencies a user-friendly payment method for non-tech-savvy individuals is a crucial challenge. It's not just about embracing this technology; it's also about ensuring its accessibility and security.

One of the fundamental obstacles is the fear of losing funds due to private key issues. Recent stories, like the one in The New York Times, highlight this concern. It's our responsibility to create solutions that make crypto as user-friendly as traditional fiat currency.

User-friendly solutions do exist in the marketplace, such as Coinremitter, which aims to simplify cryptocurrency payments for everyone. Platforms like https://coinremitter.com/?utm_source=rep&utm_medium=bitcointalks prioritize the security of funds while providing easy-to-use interfaces that are as intuitive as traditional financial apps. These solutions are designed to bridge the gap between tech-savvy users and the general public, providing a smoother onboarding experience.

Initiatives like these are vital to encourage widespread adoption of cryptocurrencies as an everyday payment method, making it accessible to individuals of all ages, including children and elders in our families. Let's continue to discuss and explore ways to make cryptocurrency payments as convenient and secure as traditional money transfers.