Bitcoin Forum

The referees are an integral part of any game I know this but tonight happened something unique and very strange,Southampton lost my bet because of VAR as I had both teams to score,the same with Athletic Bilbao as I had it both teams to score and in both cases the referees impacted the game,somewhat more in La Liga in Spain but I had really nice tickets with many other games that were lost only because of the referees wrong decisions regarding me as I saw the game and I think you cannot disallow 2 goals when the cases were to say the least doubtful.

Should UEFA do something about the referees,these guys have everything in their hand and can make the game go any result and I will say again that famous saying from a local coach where I live as he were leading the first place and lost against last place at home,in the end of the game he said explicitly (With this referee even Brazil could not win tonight)?

I don't know yet about the match of Athletic Bilbao (I'll check later), but about the Southampton, I saw on ESPN and the VAR helped the referee
Check:

https://i.ibb.co/tZHZrGd/south.jpg (https://ibb.co/HNKN8SJ)
Source (https://www.espn.com.br/video/clip/_/id/11967182?ex_cid=BrasilOneBox_Premier)

It is very frustrating to be winning a bet for a few seconds or minutes but then lose quickly.
By the VAR we can see that he was a little offside, unfortunately, it seems a few centimeters (I believe about 10 centimeters max), it would be impossible to get this offside without VAR, but I understand your feeling, even with the VAR it's difficult to define the exact moment when the player hit the ball to consider offside.
I think that soccer should urgently review the offside rule and eliminate it, for me it no longer makes sense to have this rule

I hope you didn't lose too much money on that bet swogerino

I didn't lose a lot of money because I had about 10 games on both teams to score so bet little money and the only bets that made me lose are exactly the VAR ones,Southampton and Athletic Bilbao which honestly in Spain I believe referees need to do their course on become a referee again or they need refreshers at least,I still have not forgotten the game Valencia vs Sevilla where the referee after seeing the VAR that it was 100% penalty for Valencia and seeing it several times in a clamorous way he did not give a penalty.

I should probably not play more than 2-3 games per ticket as when we are playing more we forget that there are more referees also and anything can happen.

We know that after the implementation of VAR many things have changed in football matches because in one match we can see that more than one goal has been disallowed after a VAR review, but sometimes that can benefit us as bettors but sometimes it can be more detrimental.

Did not watch the match because there were several matches taking place at the same time, so watching the Everton vs Newcastle match and changing it to Tottenham vs Man United, and the Everton vs Newcastle match also seemed to have a goal disallowed.

I don't think UEFA/FIFA will make any changes regarding the referees and also the decisions they take are assisted by technology so even an inch difference can result in a goal being disallowed, which has not happened before because the line judge will only raise the flag if the difference is big enough but with technology has all become so different, and this is not only in football in tennis it also happens and even players also protest even though the video already shows the ball coming out only a few millimeters.

In fact, the referee has definite knowledge and knowledge in the course of the match he is leading, but sometimes there are several referees who side with one of the teams because of several factors and the amazing thing is that the referee does not seem to side with one of the teams.
Referees like this have been found a long time ago and there has even been a history of several referees having to lose their image and also their big name as a leading referee just because they took a phenomenal action by side with one of the competing teams.
In the course of the match, the referee's decision cannot be changed, and the referee is really the leader in a football match or other sport.
FIFA/UEFA should be able to select every referee in order to get a referee who is truly honest and doesn't want to be manipulated just because of some money.

at least in la liga there are few cases in which the referees make questionable decisions that result in losses for a certain team in a game, watch the portuguese league games you will see how the referees can get to be annoying and have a bad performance, even with var technology in the Portuguese league, var is blind when they are weak teams, and in strong team games, var works very well in favor of the strong team and destroys the weak teams, I like how the referees of the premier league, serie A and Bundesliga and Ligue1 behave, they do a good job, even in La Liga there are few cases of mistakes made with the referee.

now about the technology of var, VAR comes into play when there is controversy in a bid, and there are more than two people to watch the video so it is difficult for them to make a wrong decision, in my opinion var is very well, the problem is still there in referees who have given fouls and red cards without a very valid reason and this has happened mainly in the Portuguese league. as I don't see a problem with var, I'm of the opinion that var should be maintained and more technologies should be created that allow for a fairer game, before referees give red cards, it had to be mandatory that they consult var first and only after that could decide whether or not to give the red card

I agree with this. I have seen a lot of games where the referee made a mistake even though he could check the situation on VAR, but chose not to. The problem with VAR is that it's a technology. And a technology is as good as people that use it. No one can blame VAR for the wrong decision. The sole blame is on a referee. I also agree with people that says that an offside is an offside, no matter if it's by 1 centimeter or 1 meter. If a referee could decide that a player was in small offside and that did not affect the game, then we don't need VAR after all.

Just to be clear, I didn't watch the games that OP is talking about. I'm discussing the use of VAR in sport in general.

Let's be realistic and understand that football in Europe but also in the whole world is a top business in which billions of dollars are turned over every year, and where there is money there is also corruption. For those who followed the FIFA case (great documentary FIFA Uncovered), they could see how dirty it is, and what is happening at the lower levels (national championships) is even worse.

In my country, not so long ago, it was found in court that the entire refereeing organization was corrupt to the extent that the clubs paid for "fair refereeing", and I don't think it's better even today - even when there is VAR, which is again in the hands of the referees who sit in the VAR room.

For those who understand that top sport is first of all business, and only then entertainment, nothing will be strange - because they say that the ball is round and unpredictable, just as the referee's decisions are sometimes a bit strange.

Usually the VAR referees quickly inform the on-field referee if they have any situations they need to review or if they can let the referee's interpretation stand.
But I still notice that there are still controversial situations, such as the intention of a player, or ball in hand / hand on ball, it is very difficult to make this decision and get it right, even with cameras and more referees watching the match.



I also watched this documentary, it is revolting that people who would have absolutely nothing to do with soccer, could be the owners of confederations or national teams.
And yes, it is a business, and it is also very important to take into consideration that the soccer referee would be a weak link because the average amount they pay for a referee is not much.
Probably an average soccer player earns in 1 month what the referee will not earn in 1 whole year.
This is not an excuse or a reason, but it is a fact that they need to rethink. But it all gets harder if you consider that FIFA itself has done and does MANY things wrong.

A few days ago I saw a really cool chart where it had the average payouts for each league, now I couldn't find it, but I did a brief search and found this chart, just to illustrate a bit:

https://i.ibb.co/Lnxcb1T/salary.png (https://imgbb.com/)
Source (https://sportsbrief.com/football/13533-premier-league-referees-salaries-average-salary-refs-uk/)

@rdluffy, If all the information is correct, then I am not surprised that the football referees at the world championships referee "catastrophically" and that before the start of the competition, everyone knows who will be the winner. When we look at the 2018 world championships in Russia, where the main character was the Argentinian who refereed the first match and the final (weird, isn't it?), and no one had heard of him before that. The final in which he did everything for the French to become champions was a steal in front of the eyes of the whole world.

Four years later, we all knew that Argentina would be the champion, and after three disallowed goals in the match against SA, there was no VAR for the Argentines until the end of the championship - not a single disputed event was checked. After all, I am surprised that the majority still think that sport is still sport, and not a rigged game in which luck is the smallest factor and money is the biggest.

I don't think it's right to link the referee's possible mistakes to the fact that they negatively affected your bets. At least it hints that you are biased  ;) I think that those who bet on BTTS No did not see any problems at all in these decisions. In general, I agree that judges make mistakes even with VAR, but at the moment it seems to me that the number of mistakes has decreased if we compare with the pre-VAR era.

Losing a bet due to a referee's call can be a tough pill to swallow, especially if it feels like a questionable decision. But let's be real, making split-second decisions under intense pressure is no easy task. That's why we have VAR technology to assist referees in making the right call. Now, imagine if the shoe were on the other foot. What if you had bet on there being fewer than two goals and the referee let them slide despite an offside position? How would that make you feel?

I get that you had a stake in this, but it's important to consider all perspectives, not just your own.

First of all I must admit a fact that VAR technology has dropped the number of mistakes to a much lower level compared to the past. Because before this technology we have all witnessed referees making unbelievable mistakes so many times. Maybe it was many years ago but I still don't forget a very clear goal not being counted in a World Cup match despite the ball's passing the goal line clearly.

However VAR usage is still not very efficient nowadays indeed. Sometimes I even see referees not even checking VAR although there is most probably a mistake in their decision. Maybe it is due to VAR referees' not doing their job nicely in those times I don't know. I don't want to tag those matches as "fixed" directly of course. But I also agree that this situation can be bettered.

I agree with your opinion about how VAR effective dropped many mistake on every football games, indeed have little mistake on some games I don't think its mistake with VAR and depend on referees its worth for checking VAR or not when have crucial moment. Since VAR was introduced, there are no more diving moments for players in the penalty box, this is one of the advantages for the referee, besides that offside cases are also more effective and VAR currently only takes a few seconds to find out when a player is caught offside or not.

I think VAR has contributed quite a bit at the moment in football matches, especially when decisions are made quite quickly at this time and there are no long pauses in a football match.

Referees and the associated VAR team have often been discussed in the football world, but I don't think it will change in the end. It is not always fair and good what the VAR makes for decisions, but in total it has become fairer I think. But now the referee's interpretation is still an important factor. I think the VAR should only be used for measurable points, now it seems that the VAR is really consciously looking for problems on the field. But the game is also often stopped unnecessarily and for a long time, I think the fun in football used to be more fun. But what about the offside rule  ;D

I don't see anything so hard with the referees and and I don't see any reasons to be scared of them and most times I think the audience have more opinion in decision making rather than just thinking so less of them and currently now i see no reason why we should be scared or think so much negative of the referees when we know that their decisions are mostly based on clear interpretation from the audience and what they're are shown on the screen in cases when a. Lead vision is needed to make a precise location.
I also understand that the referees have alot of hands in a match and I believe that most of this international refeers wouldn't want to risk their reputation for just a days meal.

Compare before yes, but it looks like we are going back to that era.
There’s a lot of miss calls not just on that match, you can also see the problem with some referees. Well, this is not just in FIFA/EUFA, its also happening in other sports, only if there’s a big penalty for every missed calls, referees should held accountable for that. They are expected to do their job at the highest professionalism, but it looks like they are being carried away by their emotions as well.

Perhaps in the future FIFA/UEFA could apply an artificial intelligence to perform as a referee instead a human being. It is something which could get rid of the human mistakes and the influence of bribery, but I doubt it could become a thing in the mid term, since I am sure the referees would not feel very happy about it.

Also, the artificial intelligence could take those decisions faster, using several angles of the cameras to determine which team is committing a fault without preferences.  ;)

When VAR was newly introduced, I was somewhat happy that it will address some human errors which sometimes are deliberate either purported by the refrees or as conspired by the authority who already had arrange a particular league or cup in such a  way that will generate income for them. Such as the world cup between Brazil Ronaldinho against Ghana which Ronaldinho score with a clear offside.
But now I have realised that even with VAR a match can be fixed against you. In the worse scenario, the VAR officials will not summon the refree and they will be it.
Again the refrees doesn't face much consequences even when they make wrong decisions.

as referees know they are closely filmed and the technology today is more advanced, i believe they will also make sure not to commit mistakes. because one big mistake, it can ruin their career.
AI can be used to assess the game for now, but using them as referees may still not be on the way. how can they be used on the middle of the field or should i say referee on the middle of the field?

The commission should do something in case referees shown biased calls.  For the integrity of sporsts, the commission should always be ready to replace any referee that shows some proof of cooking games (fixing) and penalized that referee.  Sometimes when games like this where referee obviously making wrong calls makes me think that the commission is part of the rigging and that they tasks these referees to take charge.


The UEFA must be strict with referees because as I stated, the integrity of sports heavily relies on these people's hands.  

If UEFA or any other body that is associated with referees decide to begin to discipline and institute strict career deciding punishment for referees who decide to make biased decisions, other referees will sit up and be more conscious of the decisions they take in any game that they are the main referees. The cases of referees in the game who are supposed to be making correct decisions but making wrong decisions is becoming so much, something really needs to be done.

This question of actually eliminating the impediment is something that generates a lot of controversy.

I am in favor of abolishing this, or at least doing some tests in friendly games without the offside rule.
Just to base it on... until 1998 hockey also had an offside, but later it was removed from the rules and approved by several players and fans.

Eliminating the offside would certainly make the game more dynamic, without the frustrating moves in which players are postponing the ball pass to the attack and delaying lateral throws, for example. I believe that even injuries could be reduced if players didn't have to worry about maintaining an "imaginary line" that cannot be crossed.

VAR could also focus on other more controversial moves and paralyze the game less instead of spending 5 minutes or much more analyzing an offside move.

I know the offside rule is not popular as it is probably one of the rules which is the most often applied during a match and it is often the one that causes the most controversy, but if the rule was eliminated then there will always be a striker right in front of the goalkeeper just waiting for the ball to come to him and try to get an easy score, such a change on the rule will change soccer forever, so I would prefer if the rule remained in place to keep the spirit of the game intact.

I'm not saying this is bad, but this will make the decision is unbiased because the decision is come from the same system, not like human where each of them has their own opinion.

Any player need to careful enough because there's no mercy when the ball touch your hand, it will benefited for the opponent team because they will either get free kick or penalty. There's always a player will find a loophole and AI has no way to determine it since they're programmed and no way to determine case by case basis.

With this post you reminded me of that referee in 2002 from a South American country which made sure South Korea beat Italy 3-0 thanks to him in that distant World Cup of 2002 which was being held in Japan and S.Korea but FIFA soon after decided to ban him after all activities of football including being a referee in his home country after seeing those horrendous mistakes which many thought were intentional as he was bought by S.Korea and this type of action should be still implemented in referees making clamorous mistakes and for me this should start from Spain as there the referees are making massacre after massacre in making bad calls.

In fact, using VAR and an honest referee can prevent cheating, but it will come back to the referee and the officer overseeing the VAR. And it seems that the referee who oversees the game has violated the rules. UEFA might do something like penalize the referee for being out of office for a period of time but will that prevent the same from other referees? I don't think so because this requires honesty from each referee and VAR officer to be able to give a fair and honest match to the audience.

Referees' poor calls might escalate things. Remember that they're trying their best. Making split-second decisions demands intellect and chutzpah when in authority. This reminds me of "it's the journey, not the destination." Isn't cheering for our teams more important than the game's outcome? Let's look at the big picture. How we handle life's challenges determines our legacy.

The referee is the sole official to start and stop play during the match and take disciplinary action against the players. The referee has the power to advise any situation during the game if the ball goes over the line or in the playbook or if there is a violation of the rules. The remuneration of referees for their services depends on the league but FIFA/UEFA referees are selected based on their rank, progression and training methods and on their integrity. If not honest and fair there are many referees who sell to money and break the rules.

There have been many cases of unfair or doubtful decisions by referees along the years in important games, including the World Cup. One of the most memorable one is the 2002's World Cup which is said to have favoured the host asian teams, Japan and South Korea. There was also the Cup where Maradona scored a goal with his hand (la mano de Dios), and the referee was fine with that.

That is not something which is going to disappear from soccer. Therefore, like in Cobra Kai series on an episode where the competition's referee was bribed by the Cobra Kai dojo, Daniel San told his dojo's fighters they should fight much better than the rivals, in a way it would be impossible for the referee to take the victory from them.

The same applies to soccer. The team can't rely on the referee to win. They must show much superior performance to not allow this kind of trickery to get the victory from their hands.

I researched a little more and I believe that the values are very close, in other sites the values change a little more or less, but the average is the same.
The argentinian matches were "curious" in the last world cup, I also agree with you but this is almost impossible to prove, I find it very difficult to know who is honest and serious in FIFA after they discovered all those scandals

I don't know if you are following, but there is probably a big scandal happening about the Spanish championship involving Barcelona, it is worth reading and get even more angry:

https://talkimgac.oss-us-east-1.aliyuncs.com/2023/04/29/Sem-titulo-1dc02f8096c6e9515.jpeg
Source and link to the news: https://edition.cnn.com/2023/04/04/football/uefa-president-aleksander-ceferin-barcelona-scandal-spt-intl/index.html

According to everything we have seen, Qatar won the hosting of the world championship only because they distributed money to everyone who decided on it, and did not ask for the price - the same as Russia did before them. Of course, you can't prove regardless of all the dubious decisions and the non-use of VAR in the same, although this is perhaps the best proof that even with such technology, the game can be directed in the direction that was previously agreed upon.



Big clubs, a lot of money and a lot of influence on everything that can be influenced, and the fact that they did it for 17 years without anyone from the Spanish authorities doing anything shows the level of corruption even in top football. However, Barcelona is too powerful for something serious to happen to it, and the man at the head of UEFA is certainly not the one who will clean the house of European football.

That is relative though,no matter how good the team and superior in performance it maybe it cannot win against even the weakest opponent as long as they have a really nasty referee to judge the game.I am repeating that saying of a local league here where I live,the coach which had the game of his life,he needed the win against last place to become Champion and they lost it while playing at home,he said explicitly "with a referee like this one even Brazil cannot win,let alone us" and as such the referees need to be sanctioned just like they sanction the players,FIFA/UEFA should really do something about them,they are destroying football every day more.

I'll tell you more: this happens not only in sports, but in general everywhere. To make mistakes is human. As for responsibility, I agree with this, there are actions and there are their consequences. But what would you like to change in the current system? As far as I know those judges who often make mistakes get their rating downgraded and they are given to referee less important games (and may end up with a complete suspension if they do not stop making gross mistakes).

If a referee blatantly steals the game it will have a negative consequence for him, without any doubts. On this case, it's obvious one team showed superior gameplay than the other, so the referee had to adopt an abusive arbitration to fulfill his shady goal. Therefore, it will have a consequence for the referee and he will be punished accordingly. It's hard to see this kind of situation for real, but if it happened, I believe the prejudiced team would have a new chance to play again, or its victory assured.

On the other hand, if he takes advantage of slight details to favour one team or another, it's likely it will pass unnoticed or it will be even understood by the league's authorities. At same time, it means both teams playing had similar performances, which were exploited by the bribed referee to take the team he wished to the victory.

Dang, those are nice figures. It makes me want to change my ambition now. Now all I want is to become a referee ;D but of course that is only a joke because number one is I don't have a passion in it and number two is, referee on lower leagues are still being paid low and it takes time for a referee to be promoted and work on higher leagues.

OP,
Sorry for your loss. It is seems that the referee knows that you are betting and they are making you lose intentionally and maybe if you don't place your bets, the game will just run fine without the referee interrupting the game. Let's just hope that someone from the inside can notice this concern of yours and fix this issue with the referees.

In my opinion UEFA/FIFA are just as corrupt as the referees.  ::) Just look what happened with the opening match of the Soccer World cup... (bribes)... was any of that investigated ... or did they ignore that and just continue with the game.  :o

What was FIFA biggest scandal?
The 2015 centre on the alleged use of bribery, fraud and money laundering to corrupt the issuing of media and marketing rights for FIFA games in the Americas, estimated at $150 million, including at least $110 million in bribes related to the Copa América Centenario to be hosted in 2016 in the United States. Source : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_FIFA_corruption_case

I was not pleased with the introduction of VAR because I felt it will mechanize the game of football and make it look like a computerized game. Seeing players celebrating and all of a sudden it is cut short by a call for VAR check. The players have to wait anxiously for the result to continue the celebration. In my own opinion, it makes the game looks boring. But people argued that it will reduce errors and make the game flawless. But from the look of things, it is clear that it still causing more controversies. It will be better if we go back to the old human refereeing system instead of wasting money on machines that is still subject to human errors.

These AI machines are also programmed by humans and can be subject to hacks or system errors. It will be good for FIFA or UEFA to combine the use of human and artificial intelligence to match officiating or scrap VAR entirely just as suggested earlier.

It's not easy to find the referees on UEFA games, many believe that the referee will have the job to go to the first team or that they are there to score and if the winner will win then the referee is the only referee with the power to stop this.

Humans have programmed the AI machines based on the requirement. It is common to see errors happening through technology as well as through human. To the changing surroundings we're also making changes or getting adopted to it. Initially VAR looked different and now majority accept and find it good. Old way of referring is good, and people accepted it as they had no technology advancement. Now everything is available and sure people expect things to be precise and perfect through technology. In ATP (tennis) it is planned for removal of human referees and go full on technology. Such decisions too is wrong in my view.

It is amusing you mention that a referee career depends on their choices because here in Latin America we have a legend of a very infamous referee which probably became the most hated one in the world, despite his horrible work as a referee he continued participating in more matches and each one more important than the previous one.So his career was not affected, not until the end.

He got fired and eventually turned to drug trafficking to the United States. You should take a look at that case.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Moreno


Artificial intelligence could free us from future referees like that one.

For a long time now I have seen the offside rule as a bigger problem in soccer than as something useful.
You said about the attacker being face to face with the goalkeeper, but it is the duty of the defender of the other team to stay close to this attacker and avoid this type of situation. To my way of thinking it makes no sense to punish the attacker for being in a better position than the other team's defender

The end of this rule would cause two effects that could help soccer a lot:
1 - more goals per match, making soccer even more cool to watch
2 - fewer problems, doubts and fights over offsides, especially like the one the OP commented on, which must have been only a few centimeters offside

Some years ago I played a lot of soccer and in those "amateur" matches we never used any form of offside, the match tended to run normally and with less stops
A curiosity, the most difficult thing to explain about soccer to those who don't understand it is the offside rule, and every time they ask me and I explain, the next question is: but why?  :D

It's just my opinion, but I understand yours and I respect that  ;)


Although the referee's salaries are higher than mine, I don't think it's too high, since as you said yourself, only a few get to referee in the major leagues, and it's a ungrateful profession.
Many referees in the minor leagues are threatened and offended, and for any referee there is always the risk of making some mistake or big mistakes in important matches and losing his career.

You don't have to blame  your loss on the referee bud, just blame it on fate, you and I know that the referee is not aware of your bet, and I doubt if he's aware of anyone's bet, all he is about is a game that is fair for both teams playing, he can't because of your bet not cancel a  goal that the VAR has proven to be offside.

I understand how it hurts, but don't be so self centered, most especially in matter as this, also think about those who were going to lose the bet if the referee had kept quiet, do you think their loss would have been a fair loss, considering the goal you are talking about was confirmed to be an offside by a VAR.?

Well, I discovered these types of things that have happened a long time ago, and what the main referees do is that if they show that the decision is safe on their part, they do not review the VAR, so we continue on the same path of corruption, this is something that has always existed and it is pitiful, in the matches of all the leagues I have seen this type of injustice, so it is difficult, because internally FIFA also has its own business and everyone wants to win, so these instances it is difficult to fight against one of what I consider the biggest mafias in the world, FIFA is one of the entities that do the most damage to sport for this type of behavior.