Bitcoin Forum

Not your key, not your BTC

If you save it in the cloud, exchange, or any service online, you don't own your key. It's the same as giving your neck to the executioner. Better to give your wealth to social institutions, war victims, and people who are undernourished than give your wealth to rich people who own the cloud and exchange.

I guess everyone is well aware of this old adage, not just in the cloud but in exchanges as well. We have seen a lot of exchange rug pulling and there are some rare cases that the owner himself died together with the exchange himself (QuadrigaX).

Company loses $190 million in cryptocurrency as CEO dies with sole password (https://abcnews.go.com/Business/company-loses-190-million-cryptocurrency-ceo-dies-sole/story?id=60851760).

But with addition though, you should also learn how to practice security with your keys, not to save it online, emails or backup in the clouds.

This is misleading, when you're hold your coins on online service, it doesn't mean you will completely lose all of your money and can't get it back when a bad thing happen. If you're give your wealth to social institutions, war victims etc, it's donation and you don't have any access to claim back your money. The bad thing of online service is prone of hack and they will ask you many questions or KYC, but you still can access your money as long as the service isn't scam or hacked.

Not saying holding on online service is good, but your comparison aren't make sense.

Maybe not an executioner, because that means you have nothing to lose because you are bound. There is no chance to escape it is just you wait for your sentence. Then in the exchange even if you put bitcoin there, you can still transfer it to another non-custodial wallet.
Unless it's an unknown exchange here, it can be said that you're giving your neck to the executioner, but if it's like Binance, I can also say that I'm a little complacent and at ease.

I guess OP is trying to pass a message that instead of keeping your coins in an exchange,it is better that you donate it to those he mentioned above because your generosity will be noticed and you will touch the lives of some many people in need.  When your coins is in an exchange, it isn't safe and if the exchange crashes or comes up with doing away with users funds...You have just enriched the CEO of the exchange and you become a fool for that because you might leave to regret your silly action. You wouldn't know the next online service that will come up with cock and bull stories to scam their users. OP means all online service are not safe to keep your coins because your coins belongs to them not you anymore,if they don't want to give you access to your coins,they wouldn't and there is nothing that you can do about it.

I am probably going to stop warning people about their wallets and the dangers of reporting their Bitcoin on a exchange because they just don't care, after FTX's cruel fate I thought centralized exchanges are going to go out of business because the majority of people will stop using centralized exchanges and move out all their funds.

When Binance exchange witnessed a huge amount of withdrawal, I was one of those people that believe that it's over for centralized exchanges, until a few month later where people start moving their funds back into Binance.

This shows that they just don't care, like whatever happens to FTX and those using the exchange have happened, it's like they are saying "it's not me but those using FTX that have a bad fate" what they failed to understand is it can happen to anyone. People really like learning the hard way.

I already know how to store private keys safely of course don't store them online or in any cloud because it will be vulnerable to hacking, we also won't be stupid about the assets stored there of course have prepared in a much more secure hardware wallet.

I don't think it's all that bad holding assets on exchanges but this is highly not recommended and it is better to stay away from holding exchange assets if you are investing long term, unless it is only trading then it will be fine and maybe they will be more attractive from exchanges if profitable then the capital can be turned back.

It remains for the long term that we ourselves hold the private key offline.

That's right, if we save on an exchange of our assets then it's not ours but there is a third party who handles it with this it will be vulnerable to our assets that might be held by their side, it's better to write in your seed phrase paper and pull it BTC from exchange store in the cold wallet will be safer.

Centralized exchanges will never end because this is a place where many people trade any coin, including we send BTC to a centralized exchange only to be exchanged to fiat while doing P2P is still very difficult to do directly unless the centralized exchange is the largest container his.
Another one keeps assets longer so it's better to use cold wallet, if there is another need then you can send to exchange to convert to another one that becomes easy to exchange.

They are too comfortable keeping assets on the exchange so they don't think about the risk of how the exchange collapses even though there have been many incidents in this regard, it's just that they don't care about it and it's better to keep it there practically maybe that's their thinking.

Meanwhile, I personally prefer a secure hardware wallet for all the assets we have that can be stored there.

It's a warning for everyone. If people think that it's ease to let their keys be on that recover feature of Ledger or any other type of service, you're wrong. As said by OP, you hold only your keys and not any cloud storage, and even the government can take it if they subpoena it as per the CEO of Ledger. Can we imagine that we like decentralization and then these companies are starting to make it look like we need these centralized systems for keeping our money, no way! We've been there once before and wouldn't allow them to hold our funds and wealth.

Is this a serious problem in the process of using cryptocurrency or bitcoin, I think not. Because of the few stories some organizations or individuals have problems in managing their assets, and we can all manage it ourselves and don't put too much weight on bad luck in the journey of using it. I don't want to talk much about negative action when it's not common and depends on the user himself, every tool has features or risks to use.

It's all good to say that we need to be careful with our funds, but I just understood that you can't be always careful with cryptocurrency. Some people see open source wallets as the best, but we have to wait months for a developer to make a new update before we can download, just to be sure, especially for non developers. Hardware wallets also pose some vulnerabilities, the chips they use in building them can be compromised by hackers or even when a person gains access to the hardware they can take your funds. These are vulnerabilities in the cryptocurrency niche, but in all means keeping our keys is a good practice but avoiding exchanges as a way of keeping bitcoin doesn't absent us entirely from risks of losing money.

I agree with you that the bitcoins you put on exchanges is indeed not yours in the scenarios when an exchange goes offline or ran away with the bitcoins or stops withdrawals without any notice. Other than those reasons the bitcoins that you hold on an exchange is as much yours as the ones you keep in a wallet. For example: The money that you keep in a bank is also yours as long as the bank is not bankrupted, or hasn't flew away with the money. The scenario is same with the exchanges, as long as they are working normally your coins are totally yours.

It's always better choice to keep your bitcoins in your personal cold wallets rather than relying on those exchanges. But, if someone is into trading then the only option for the person is to let the money on exchanges. We have no other option than trusting those exchanges because that's the only possible way to trade your coins and earn from trading activity. For a investor the scenario is quite different, the best option for an investor is to create their own cold software wallets and keep their bitcoins on those cold wallets.

It basically depends on the needs of the users, and I must say that the exchanges are doing a great job to help their users even though people still prefer cold software wallets for the security purposes. I have kept my coins on Bitfinex for more than 3 years and let them on that exchange without any precautions, and when I needed to withdraw the coins it took me less than 5 minutes and the coins were in my own wallet.

It's indeed a reality that few well-known exchanges are doing a great job for the customers, but still I would prefer to go with cold software wallets for security purposes because an exchange can flew away with your money without any prior notices. It's better to use the exchanges for trading purpose because they are most suited for that thing, and it's always a better choice to keep your coins in your possession for security and safety purposes.

I think everyone is just trying to portray this popular saying which says prevention is better than cure. Yeah its true that  these cases of exchanges closing down and people losing their assets in them are few but the facts still remains and that there is the possibility of these things repeating them selves. So calling the action of someone trying to have the keys to his own assets isn't a negative action at all.

Although OP might have put it out harshly but it is not far from the truth. Storing funds on them should be avoided, because if actually you lose funds due to the service or platform been hacked then the chance of getting back this funds are slim(many exchanges that have been hacked are yet to return users funds). The ones that get back their funds are mostly platforms that are closing down and they inform their users to take off their funds. But this shouldn’t be depended on because you don’t when it will be hacked.


We can’t just stop warning people because of the newbies coming into cryptocurrency aren’t aware of its danger, it is even fact that many of them even get into cryptocurrency through this exchanges. The clear warning to the ignorant ones Should be treat centralized exchanges as a marketplace, trade on them and take your funds back to your wallets.

It is a serious problem, the events of losing crypto stored in an exchange or online is so much that people should be warned about it repeatedly, it isn't just a few stories as you call it, it is very common. The way to manage your BTC's is to do it by yourself, keep it in your self custody wallet, write out the seed phrase and have more than one backup in two different locations.

There are many people who still keep their BTC's in exchanges, or store their keys online, many of them haven't lost their funds, but it does not mean that the funds are safe, any funds you don't have its keys or is stored online can be lost very quickly with a small error.

Not only you but there have been many significant cases which has directed people to keep funds in their custody but still we see lot of people ignoring it like nothing happened ever.We also have warning from @theymos in important announcements as well but people have their choices.

Just keep your funds safe with you under your custody but with latest news developments about Ledger hardware wallets private keys exposing have raised safety concern among users and forced them to shift to other options.So it's in your hand at last how you take responsibility of your funds.

In this case maybe I agree with your statement that saving online is very vulnerable, like giving our house keys to thieves. but, but not everyone here is negligent in preparing other options in terms of saving important data to local data. Very classic indeed but, with the option of local data storage being the solution and having full control over the key encryption and privacy of our data and safe, free to manage our own data without the need to rely on third parties and of course make regular backup copies and secure storage devices as well as you mean.

You can't force people to do what they want. You just have to think that you have done your part to give them an advice where storing your assets in an exchange or a platform that you don't have the seed phrase to access the BTC is not your BTC. I get what it means but people have their own choice or they decide what they want to do. It's their choice to let someone keep their assets safe rather than them keeping it safe. Keeping your assets online is not that safe and an example is the link that TravelMug provided.

depending on how you view and use your assets in these wallets. Store assets because it's convenient, easy to use, and sometimes even has events with good rewards for users. So there's no reason not to use it. It's true that I can't completely control them, but you don't necessarily have to keep all of your assets up there. I use them as money transfer and exchange services, so I don't have to worry about losing control. The money is still yours, and you should know how to manage it well to be smart, not to control others to say this and that.

Enough have been said about the not your keys not your money message, it is now left for individuals to do what they feel is right.
Each does have their risk level but that of keeping it online is way more riskier. Offline also involves risk pf lost of damaged by natural disaster or theft as well if the person is not carful.

I'm sure people have heard about this many times, but no reminder of safety can be superfluous. I really would rather give my money to someone who needs it than I would keep my savings there, which not only I have access to.

Always DYOR and don't hold your crypto on exchanges.

Many people are already aware of this, and bringing it up again serves to remind some individuals, particularly the beginners. Some people who lose money due to this online service or exchange are occasionally aware of it but can't live without it, while others may be enticed by their tempting offers. Some exchanges have a high level of security and guarantee the safety of their customers' assets, but you never know when they will exit scam or go collapse.  Knowing about this is vital and will help guide you better.


While some exchanges fall into the hands of hackers or exhibit frauds, others provide a wonderful example to follow; just keep in mind that red flags exist even if the exchange expresses positive faith in them. Giving money to social institutions and war victims on your own accord is referred to as charity, not a loss of funds to them.

OP, this movement started a very long time ago before your appearance here as I look you are a newbie. Not your key, not your coin is a well known statement on this platform. Although you did a good job bringing it up again even though it is still very much in action, you have awaken the consciousness of members towards that direction both old and new for that matter.

Holding your coin gives you less pressure to worry about since you have custody of it safely without any interference with any third party. Your coin being with you is very safe as to grant you access at any time you feel like without any reason to hold them back like third parties who would require you to a kyc process before anything.

This topic is very vital and crucial as it guides us and preserve our nature.

I think this has been stated for so many times but people still don't care much about it unless they would be a victim of it.
Most of us are aware that online storage aren't safe for our funds or cryptocurrency.
Even well known or big trading sites sometimes get's hacked and we've seen it before, I think that enough is a proof that storing it online isn't safe.

Its one of the golden rule here on crypto space on which you should really be minding of always on which you should really be having this kind of common sense when you do keep up your assets.It would really be just that dumb to store those keys on cloud.This is why you should really be that sensible in towards your holdings because if not then you would really be losing those coins.I would rather keep up my coins on a USB
and would really be locking it an making some password at least rather than on storing it in cloud which its never been that recommendable. When you are making trades then it would better that you do pull off those funds or coins out of an exchange and doesnt bother out something when it comes to fees. We know that fees now arent really that high for you to boggle out or would  really be having those hesitance.
Be wary about the risks because it is really better to have some expense on fees just because we know that it is really just that much safe this way.

You are trying your best to remind us your username again. It is good bro remind us like this because persistent reminding will make some users who have not heard the figurative language of will be very much aware of the statement. Even as you been saying time to time people are still giving it def hear. Like this period that the fee is high, many people are saving their coins in exchange because if they keep it the wallet and when they want to make send, the fee is high so instead they prefer keeping nit in the exchange and trade it at their pleasant time.

I don’t think the comparison is stupid, I think what OP is trying to say is storing your keys online is same as giving your money away to the company that owns the service, instead of losing money that way you should give it to charity.

Of course it is a serious problem, even Theymos had to make a topic about it and pin the banner for everyone to see.  Reminder: do not keep your money in online accounts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5421039.msg61293646#msg61293646). Only a few bad stories? When Mt Gox and most recent FTX crashed, how many people do you think were affected? Only a few thousand I guess.

Another side of this is that even it is your keys, it may not be your bitcoin anymore if you choose to share it with a random dude who you just met online or anywhere. It is like putting your head in a hangman's noose and expecting nothing to happen. Some safe places to store (https://securitypilgrim.com/6-ways-to-store-private-keys/) your keys include - offline wallet, offline flash drive or hard drive, paper wallets. I once stumbled how to topic on Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5389446.0) by fillippone it a DIY thing incase you need it.

You yourself must be aware of the responsibility of storing assets anywhere, not just in the cloud. No one will know if one day there will be a security flaw related to this wallet, so it is still necessary to be cautious and careful when storing assets here. In addition to the transaction issue, you should maintain the monthly transaction and check on the problem every time you trade. This way, you can update your monthly balance and avoid incorrect transactions or errors.

True, if you don't own your key, you dont own your bitcoin. But if you play smart enough to keep it safe no one can steal it from you. I think people keep their wallets online to avoid hassle but this is not ideal. Bitcoin private keys or phrases needs to be stored offline.

This is true and a fact.
That is why every time we are going to save and invest our money in BTC, we must be careful about it, we must be smart and careful to keep the key save and not lose it. We must know where is the best way to save our assets. But, it doesn't mean that there is no chance for us to invest in BTC and get the benefits. We get it and so far, it is good enough. Choose the hardware wallets that will help us to decrease the risks.

This is different.

Well I don't know what would have promoted  this thread by op but I'm sure of a saying that, what works for one might not work for the next person which simply implies that there are alot of persons like myself who feel safe and secure storing my seed phrase on clouds without having to bother over natural disaster or any casualties.

I recently  read a thread where robbers invaded  the house of a popular  crypto influencer and made away with some valuables leaving this laptop on the table with a written note beside it "seed phrase and pass phrase " and I want to believe that those robbers were dumb but believe  me that no all robbers would be that dumb so I don't buy the idea of storing your seedphrase physically.

Yes, I'm looking up your name, but what's written there, and what does it mean? Ops, just kidding 🤣😂. Well, this has been a concept that has been preached in this forum ever since I joined the forum, and I believe there is no one who will actively spend one month on this forum without reading anything related to not your key, not your coin. Keeping our coins on a centralized exchange and also backing up our phrase to online servers means we want those information to be in the hands of anyone when our security gets compromised. The best way to back up wallet data is on an offline medium, like paper or a metal sheet.

As the day passes by, scammers and hackers are thinking of better ways to steal the coins of some Bitcoiners who can fall victim to them. Also, with the situation of some centralized exchanges that have failed before and the US government putting some harsh laws on some platforms dealing in Bitcoin, you never know if any exchange will collapse any day.

It would seem a very simple mantra, "not your keys - not your coins." I like to meditate on simple things sometimes, even at the risk of seeming banal. Is this always exhaustively true? I think not, if I entrust my keys to a responsible custodial storage service, these will also be my coins. Or not? Is the opposite always true, "your keys - your coins"? I also think not, if I stole the keys, then this does not automatically make me the owner of the coins. Or does? I don't know why I'm typing this, just like that.

thank you for always reminding this great sentence!

This is an example of why it is strictly forbidden to store large amounts of Bitcoin assets on centralized exchanges.
[1] https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/serial-phishing-scammer-uses-a-mix-of-laundering-techniques-including-coin-swaps-and-a

[1] https://cointelegraph.com/news/1-7m-of-bitcoin-tied-to-quadrigacx-reawakens-after-years-of-dormancy

-do not believe easily in an exchange.
-don't be easily tempted by an exchange.
-always update information.
-keep your assets in a private wallet where only you and your confidants know the pass and private key.

It can be said that this is propagated and repeated billions of times on this forum, and in the market, it is too familiar to all investors. But how many people are doing this is what matters because, as we have seen, exchanges are still going strong, and there is no sign that they are waning or that people are stopping using them.
In the history of the development of the market, the crash of FTX is not the only one, before that, we also had Mt.gox, and in the future, there will certainly be a few more exchanges closing down. But people will quickly forget and still use CEX because of the convenience it brings.

Everyone who is involved in the Cryptocurrency field first remembers your name long before you were born on the forum. The hacking tragedy that occurred at Mt. Gox, KuCoin, Binance and several other tragedies that have occurred have made anyone learn an important lesson to always store assets in a wallet that can be controlled by the Private key.
Previously this message had been conveyed by several other forum users including Theymos when the FTX collapsed. It doesn't matter if you want to remind us of this, you can create your own version of the topic with some cases attached.

well it depends of course. central exchange are there to manage the funds that cannot do on their own. so it's just like a win-win. those companies only make money with their own tokens and by paying transaction fees nothing more. If you want to be in control, then put it on a hard wallet or a ledger. Just a reminder that just do what works and makes sense for you, and for OP it's the other way around.

As you say it's very common, but what I see is not quite so, there are cases like you mentioned and that's all the stuff going on in this environment, and I try to think about calculations of how many people suffer from such incidents in the crypto environment, it could be in the billions of dollars or even more but let's be realistic when it comes to the size of this market , we all understand the market is still small but some statistics about its marketcap compared to the proportion of people at risk, it is nothing. So I still make the point that there are problems that can be solved by themselves in usage behavior, maybe nowadays information spreads quickly and easily, so many people like to exaggerate the severity as well. As a risk, if the environment is so unsafe, people won't come and use it. And in the spirit of building positive things, I fully support the most risk-free asset management, but it is fair to say that the above issue is just a small reminder of the cases that have been encountered before. trouble during use.

Thanks for reminding us, but I think if you've been here long enough, you'll know that this is a saying that has been used and circulated on this forum for years. We popularized it before you entered the market, or did not join the forum. Anyhow, I hope that your article will receive interest from newcomers and they will better understand the meaning of this immortal saying. If someone invests in bitcoin without knowing this saying, they are not a bitcoin investor.

I agree with the OP. Even if you save anything privately on the internet even in the most secure cloud platform there's always a risk of potential data leaks because you can't control that. Personally, I don't trust storing anything sensitive online such as private keys or Bitcoin seed phrases. I prefer to keep them offline whether it's on a physical piece of paper or stored in an air-gapped device.

There are always risks associated with storing your BTC in an online wallet or an exchange. In the worst case scenarios, your funds could be stolen and the chances of recovering them are generally quite low, saying it's impossible in some cases. So it's really important to be aware of the potential risks and be careful when choosing storage options for your Bitcoin.

This is a choice for everyone. choose to use the Exchange or not, but I personally still rely on exchanges like Binance to trade and the main assets of course I will not store on the Exchange, only some capital assets for trading that I enter.

Regarding the insecurity of storing assets online in third parties such as Exchange.
Offline Assets such as Hardwallet are also dangerous, especially Ledger which will present the Ledger Recover Feature, it will be more dangerous,
"Not Your Key Not Your Coin"

But people are too lazy, aren't they? Wouldn't they want the option that is most easiest for them? Sadly there are lots of people that think "managing" their own bitcoin is more complicated then managing their fiat currency. They find the concept of keys and backups something hard to understand. So they end up using centralized services that makes things "easier for them". Unfortunately, they don't realize that exchanges and wallets are more vulnerable to hacks and there is always a chance the wallet/exchange might disappear one day. Since they don't have access to their own keys, they can never recover their coins. No matter how much a service claims they are "best", they aren't. Better to hold your own keys if you want to be the real owner of your coins.

Yes, people are lazy. Just focus on yourself and do the best you can. If you have someone close who's keeping their Bitcoin on an exchange you can calmly talk to them and explain, why they should consider doing otherwise.

Ledger is just one hardware wallet out of many, Ledger have launched a feature that is crazy, but it does not mean that there aren't other good hardware wallets. Keeping your keys offline is the safest way to store your coins, either you buy a hardware wallet or you use a software wallet in an airgapped device, the danger is if the user exposes their seed phrase or if the manufacturers can export the seed phrase and send it across the internet, like Ledger; so we should warn people against hardware wallets like this, not hardware wallets or offline storage widely.

"Not your keys, not your Bitcoin." It's the basic rule, a kind of Bitcoin Ten Commandments. Stashing your Bitcoin in an online exchange or a cloud service is a bit like trying to catch a grenade in a game of financial hot potato.

That said, allow me to put on my skeptic's hat for a moment. Yes, holding your Bitcoin in a wallet where you're the master of the private keys is the most secure method. But keep in mind, being the top dog also means you're the one who has to clean up the mess when things go sideways. There's no 'Bitcoin customer service' to call when you lock yourself out. And let's pour one out for those poor folks who've misplaced their access, waving a permanent bye-bye to their crypto treasure chest.

As for your last point, you're right that sometimes the easy road is the one we pick, even if it's not the most secure. It's the same reason we opt for a quick burger instead of whipping up a gourmet meal – sometimes, we just can't be bothered. And that's cool, as long as we're aware of the risks and do our best to strap on a financial safety helmet.

Not your key, not your Bitcoin, as the saying goes. When consumers are aware that Bitcoin was designed to provide privacy, I sometimes wonder why some of them choose to keep their Bitcoin exchanges.Consequently, where is your privacy now if you store your Bitcoin on exchanges?In truth, there are several stories that might happen if you leave your Bitcoin in an exchange. Your coins at an exchange are not your coins because you keep them under exchange care, and with that you are not the only one having power over your money. Either the exchange hacks or runs down, and with all these stories, you are likely to lose all your money.Let's try our best to save our money in non-custodial wallets.

Never believed that a single day. I am the type of guy who goes for a quick burger instead of a stake meal, I do not want to be the top dog and I never believed that anything would happen to my money if I keep it at Binance. A lot of people are making a big deal out of it because they are not aware of what has happened in the past and think the exact same thing could happen to binance.

First of all, there have been exchanges that got robbed, crashed, scammed and so forth, and this is the main convincing point of people who say that, but in reality none of those, and I mean literally NONE of those had as much crypto as Binance has in them in dollar value, even mt.gox which had hundreds of thousands, worth a mere few million at best at the time. So binance already makes billions in profit, it's that simple.

I think people learned a lot from what happened in the past to those exchanges that went bankrupt and were not able to get their assets. This is really rampant this year, so people should be more cautious on this, and people are now moving to the wallet where they have the keys. There are also a lot of suggestions to not easily lose it, like putting it into metal and not on paper, but basically the important thing is that you own the key and you can only access it, not like having an email, username, password.

just like what @OP said, because it's so popular and widely used that most people put their money on these centralized assets. Moreover, the features are also easy to use and advertised as safe and secure, so do not pay attention to these problems. But really, not being able to hold the security key related to your property is like a house without a door. In addition, the legal issues of these exchanges are also very complicated, such as the FTX case that caused many investors to lose all their money. So it's better to own your own key to protect the property.

This is one message we've all heard and read too many times, but to be honest, as long as crypto continues to exist, this is one message we must never stop preaching, since we do have alot of newbies joining the crypto every day, and also, there are alot of oldies who also have to be reminded always of this one simple but important rule..
All things being the same, it's never your crypto if it's not your keys, cryptocurrency is all about privacy, we can't be claiming privacy is paramount, and still have allow central services control our money.

What Ledger is doing right now is an early warning to care about Wallet hardware that is completely offline and there is no Phrase seed income from the device. Indeed, there are still many other hardware wallet devices that are better and can be an option, such as Trezor for example.

But Ledger has been the main Hardware Wallet of choice for all crypto users, but this time Ledger hurt all users with the new idea of Ledger Recover.
But whether it will continue or not, it is still an unclear decision.

When you no longer have full control, it becomes centralized, just like you are holding coins with third-party supervision.
We do need privacy, but if the privacy that was originally provided properly and securely is now compromised with updates that are an outrage to everyone.

True that, these online service is bound with their terms and service and government regulation. Meaning depositors are protected by the government law.  And keeping our BTC  online does not mean we are giving it away to the exchanges where we deposit out BTC, and the owner of these online services will not dare claim that these deposits are theirs except if they put it on their terms and condition that any deposit to the platform is considered theirs like what happen to Celsius network and their depositors.  So it is important to also read the terms and condition of a platform where we might deposit our BTC.

It is true that it is not a wise move to trust our funds to exchanges and other online platform, but it is exaggeration when we say that depositing them to online platform is like giving away our funds.

In my opinion, if our assets are donated, of course the money we give will not be able to return to us again, the point is that we will definitely lose.
but if we put our assets on the stock exchange, of course we can say that there will be no loss or loss as long as they are stored on a trusted exchange.

so here's the comparison, if you donate it, it's clear that you will lose, but if you put it on the stock exchange, you won't necessarily lose.

but if investing for the long term in btc
the safest still is that it should be kept in a hardware wallet.

I appreciate your suggestion. Placing your key or any password online means that you are giving it away. Also, after many people's Gmail are hacked, the private keys and passwords stored in them are easily obtained by hackers. I think people have to be more careful about this. The best way is to always write down your key and password on a piece of paper.

As far as the exchange is concerned, If you have capital in the exchange, You are only given a password to access your account. it is not under your control. it is better to keep it in your personal wallet and if you do trading as needed, keep only that money in the exchange, and we have to tell people connected to this platform to always keep their assets under their control.

There are still crypto investors that keep their assets on centralized exchanges like Binance, Crypto.com, and Coinbase, this is something that I have witnessed with my eyes, and when you tell them what they are doing wrong they will think something else, they should learn their lessons the hardest ways.

There is nothing you can do to people that are not ready to learn, their arrogance always gets in the way they do things, and that will eventually lead them to their end.

Crypto wallet private keys and recovery seeds need to be protected at all costs, this is the only thing keeping your funds safe from bad actors and if you don't do the needful you are simply risking your funds.

Centralized exchanges like Binance, Coinbase or Crypto.com can fail at any time, if you have your funds on them they will go down the drain with your money and the chances of getting your money back is very slim.

The OP provided a nice reminder message for anyone viewing and reading.
Not your key, not your coin is a familiar reminder message to those involved in the crypto space. Keeping coins other than in a wallet is stupid.
The Exchange is not a place to store, but a place to buy and sell.
Keeping coins on the exchange for a long time is the same as giving money to them.

Hardware wallets if we can't maintain and use them properly will have bad consequences too.
When we use a hardware wallet, then we also have to be willing to spend money to buy a seed phrase storage device to avoid fires and other incidents.

Why do you think if you donate, we will lose?
If you donate your wealth to those in need, social institutions, war victims, and people who are undernourished, you will get something other than wealth, such as health and others.
I don't feel that donating will cost us anything but can give us a way to gain something else.
Indeed, the amount of money we have will decrease, but the decrease in money is due to good deeds that will also have a good impact on us.
And if you place or store your assets on an exchange, you don't know how safe your assets are and it's better for you to keep your assets in a private wallet.

Hardware wallets are generally considered safe for storing bitcoin securely but let's just exclude Ledger company because of the recent concerns that have been raised regarding Ledger's firmware update. It has been alleged that this update sent private keys/seed phrases to third-party entities which make the user in a risk that his wallet could be leaked.

Generally, using a hardware wallet is really safe only if you know exactly how to use it because I have noticed where some people mistakenly treat a hardware wallet as a hot wallet by storing their seed phrase in an insecure manner, such as saving it in a .txt file on their computer. This practice compromises the security offered by the hardware wallet itself.

Some are lazy and choose CEX for convenience. But some do not believe in themselves, they think that they protect their assets not well, and there are too many risks when they have to protect their own assets. I have a friend who is in a similar situation, he doesn't believe in his ability to keep his private keys or cold wallet, he thinks he is terrible at managing his assets, and he came to Binance. Although he is well aware of the risks of depositing funds in CEX, he says they are safer than his own. I really don't have any advice for people who are not confident in themselves, like my friend.

Centralized wallets and exchanges that you don't have your private keys are not good options to safe your coins. We have so many wallets that are decentralized that you can download on your laptop or other devices that you use that'll give you complete control over your coins and they're the best options to be used. Storing your private key online is also wrong as hackers can get access to them.

There's not one centralized service that can't be breached, all are vulnerable and that's why we are advice not to make use of them for storing of our coins. As well built as google is, they have security breaches somethings and data are been lost to hackers too.

Mine might not be crypto-related, but this is also to say to people using an e-wallet even if it does not hold crypto. Recently here in my country, there has been incidents of people getting locked into their e-wallet and having some unauthorized bank transfers/transactions. If anyone is curious or residing here in the Philippines, I am pretty sure ya'll know what GCash is.

You'll never know the inconvenience of not being able to access your wallet unless you encounter it as well. I did not really need the money, but I was like paranoid on how would my money be cashed out or how would I put my money to safety. Good thing in crypto, I almost never use an web wallet unless I tend to use their services such as paying bills or buying me a prepaid credits.

Most of us gotta be honest that it is quite a bit tedious sometimes to move your funds to a decentralized wallet. The waiting time or process to do it. Sometimes I even kind of thinking of writing a script to move my funds automatically to my preferred wallet depending on if I way buying or selling crypto coins.
Well I don't use Binance for now, so I guess I am far away from worries......for now.

As the year goes by, people especially the investors will get wiser each time because we cannot avoid such times that there will be some investors that will be sampled for the sake of many. Like what happened these past few years, it will be a warning to us and for all those who are planning to make their move towards cryptocurrency, it may be redundant to hear these words but we need to hear it or read it from time to time so that we can be cautious and will be reminded about the do's and don'ts.

The comparison doesn't make any sense though we can understand what you're trying to say to us.

I know that putting your coins in an exchange, and storing it there isn't advisable, but still there are some who are doing it because they have their own reasons why they're doing it, and I'm pretty sure that they know what they're doing. Those newbies who don't know the risks of putting their coins in an exchange are the ones who are at risk here, but I've also stored some of my coins in Binance way back a few years ago, and the reason why I did it is because I want my coins to earn instead of just sitting there, and doing nothing.

On the other hand, why would I give my coins to war victims? People who are undernourished? Why should I give my coins to them? I mean this doesn't make any sense at all. I know that giving isn't bad, but you're analogy is out of this world TBH. Anyway, I know what you're trying to say to us OP, and you're correct. Anyway, I'm not affected at all because all of my coins are in a wallet where I have my private keys with it. Well, I just hope that there will be one or two users out here who will learn something on what you said to them because this simple quote can save you big time.

I love the fact that you remember us of not your keys not your coin, most new folks might be finding it difficult to understand what that means so nice one op,  that is why exchanges are not be trusted so we all should avoid keeping our money in exchanges before what happened to FTX repeates it self, better you have the keys to lock than allow another folks keep the key for you, so its  actually a good advice coming from op, wallet is more secured to store your funds.

Its better than give your money to owner exchange

IMO, regarding the Ledger firmware update, I think we need to wait for further information from the dev and further check the response that appears, such as the clarification that was conveyed by Charles Guillemet as Ledger chief technology officer.

Regarding the Ledger Recover feature, it's up to the user to ignore it and I think that's understandable.

Hardware wallets from the experience of many users do provide good security, but with the wrong use they can go wrong and this is what I want to say.
The seed phrase, the private key must be properly stored and it is an important record.

      -   There are other communities here on this forum that trust top exchanges like binance more than other platforms. In short,
each individual's choice in this industry depends on each other's beliefs. But still, of course, we still need to be careful so that we don't end up in a situation that we don't want to happen to us.

Maybe it's different that we know how to be careful and know what to do with these things when it comes to the platform we enter to place our assets that will be taken here in cryptocurrency.

I have learnt that lesson when one of the forum member stored their keys in the cloud a few years ago and someone hacked their account and found his/her keys. Now I see Ledger created a "online" storage feature for the "Seed" or "Private keys" and I see storm clouds gathering for a shit storm!

I will also plead with people not to trust 3rd party services with their keys, not even if it is a regulated Exchange. Use the service to trade (buy and sell) but do not keep it on there for long periods.  :P

You can say that again. Personally, I don't save my password, key phrases any on line, no matter the temptation. It is usually very tempting to save those important information online just for easy access, but it is way too dangerous to even give in to that temptation.
It is safer to write on a book and keep out of reach than save on line.

Storing personal things online does not guarantee that they will be safe because many bad incidents have happened to the server where they are stored, causing a lot of important customer data to be hacked. This raises particular concerns for the owners of these data because they submit their personal data to the online storage area, and the online storage area should be responsible for ensuring that the place is always safe even though it is not possible. And I agree to always write in a book and keep it away from curious people. Indeed, the old ways sometimes always work better than the new ways ;D

That is really the case in which there are really people that got scammed, and even worse, they lose it all, and then we will realize that it is not good to invest or put money into it. I mean, before, there were really people saying that if you don't own your keys, you don't own your assets, but we really don't care about it as we see that those exchanges are really legit, and we don't think of that they went bankrupt or what, but again, we learn lessons in hard times, so that happened, and investors now know of it.

Much as like to believe you, most of my crypto is staked so I don't really have any choice but to use exchanges to store my crypto, it's not like they're going to steal everything and most of them are too obsessed with reputation that they're frantic and paranoid of their security and taking care of my coins, maybe this would be a big deal if I have aroun a 1000 bitcoins but no, I only have a fraction so it don't matter to me if they steal my meager stash.

That's what I saw, they're getting smarter over time due to some failures they've made in the past and totally the saying is right, experience is the great teacher. If we heard someone had lost their money as they put their money on the exchanges thinking that that was their storage wallet, I could say they are new in the crypto space and they need such a moment in order to see what they did which is absolutely wrong. And from time to time, scammers will be getting tired of finding ways to scam people and in the hope that they will be totally ripped off in the crypto space.

In general, we should not deposit and store too much money on centralized exchanges. But if you want to make profits like staking or trading, you have no choice but to use them. And not all will be scams or will fail like FTX and Mt.gox. For example, Coinbase was founded in 2012 and is still doing well to this day, so not every exchange is going down.

Yea, when it comes to keeping these kind of information, the old way appears to be the surest way. I seen cases where someone lost all his token because his wallet was hacked and there was absolutely nothing he could do about it.

We should have not given them full responsibility for our coins but rather we have to do it instead. Exchanges are just for trading, though we can put our capital there but must not keep it there for a long-time. If we have profit, it should be withdrawn and transferred to our personal wallet for safe keep as these exchanges never guarantee that they will give us back our money if there is something that happens to them (like hacking). In order to avoid worries, therefore, it should have been kept where we think it was safer than these 3rd party wallets. Offline wallets is ideal when holding a lot of Bitcoin or any crypto.

This is one of the things that makes some people to lost their bitcoin it because of this online storage of the keys of your wallet because people can be easily fine your private key online and if they have access their private key that means your bitcoin does not belong to you any longer it belong to people that knows the private key because they can be easily removed from one particular wallet to another wallet without the knowledge of the rightful owner of the Bitcoin

Maybe not yet, they waiting us off guard.

Well, I have been using a online wallet but there's no issue's found since the first time I used it. The wallet I used was Electrum, and according to them that both private key and seed phrase is encrypted to protect user's privacy so I think there's no need to worry that much. I think your funds will only be at risk if you let your investment stay in the exchange since you don't have the key and they can control your account if they want. However, I didn't experienced such cases that lost of funds in Binance exchange which is the best exchange out there, but still you must not over confident because it's still possible.

Your name is more than enough for us to tell what you mean here , but thanks for this mate as there are still many of us here trusted their online wallets and exchange since they have been holding there for years.
not knowing what may come or happen .

we need to be ready for everything that may come across and that is why we need to keep safe our crypto holdings.

In the end, it's our fault for not choosing to keep our assets in private wallet. There are still people who know about all the risks, and yet they choose to ignore it and put their crypto in centralized platforms or online wallets. Also, people easily trust online services so much nowadays that they willingly store their Private key, passwords, personal information in the cloud without any hesitation. This is really concerning. As they say, you will never know the consequences, until it happens to you. So it happens to a point where it is not possible to recover your data and all that you had are lost. I know how scary that could be, because I have already faced it once. Now all my data is stored in hard copy or in a piece of paper and all the crypto hodlings are in private wallets. So everyone should learn to do it before it's too late. Store your information offline and make multiple copies and keep your hodlings in your private wallet. Many of us knows this, but they don't so it yet. So to them, start doing so before it's too late.

That's such a paranoid outlook although I can share the sentiment, I won't worry too much about my bitcoin lest it's in the whole number or 0.1 territory about the security, probably don't use obscure exchanges and online wallets to store your coins.

Not storing your bitcoin in an online exchange is what people should do or what we should recommend especially to newbies. As what op name is "not your key not your btc" explained a lot already. Think about accessing the wallets that contains BTC without the private key or seed phrase is impossible to do so that's why not your key not your btc is a good saying when it comes having some btc in a wallet.

Sure, it is secure for everyone, but sometimes certain individuals require a more flexible system for easier access and trading of our assets. In truth, all methods of storing Bitcoin securely still carry a slight possibility of being hacked. Hence, being overly possessive of our assets is certainly not advisable.

I am not advocating for asset storage solely on exchange wallets, but it is essential to maintain a portion of our assets on an exchange wallet in proportion to our sufficiency. It doesn't need to be substantial; the key is to have it. Personally, I often keep a balance ranging from $10 to $30 in a wallet that I can easily access for the purpose of purchasing something in case I forget to bring my physical wallet or if my balance is insufficient for shopping. You never know when such situations might arise.

I have to worry even if I keep it 1 satoshi because next 2038 bitcoin price to be $1 billion (https://medium.com/coinmonks/fidelity-predicts-1-billion-bitcoin-db635f226195), 1 sat = $10?, I won't lost even 1 sen

I don't know you bold your post?, because we here can read even your post transparent.

But not all exchanges will crash. Do you agree with me that Coinbase is an exchange founded in 2012, and so far, it is doing very well and without any problems? While not all will be as reputable as Coinbase, not all CEXs will collapse. Not to mention we always trust the Ledger and have you seen the rumor about it? Everything will be safe until it collapses.

Binance get sued by the SEC on allegations of violating federal securities laws.
https://twitter.com/coindesk/status/1665739863730135042?s=46&t=qiShzQbMhPt-0IDwGYJ_pQ

Not Your Key Not Your BTC.
Don't keep your crypto on exchange

Most of us, if not all, know that keeping the money is in exchanges is risky as their we do not get the access to the keys. Any Central exchange where we access our funds through username and passwords is always subject to risk as the site can scam or go offline anytime and we can lose our funds.

Any how I found your username unique that is not your keys not your funds (BTC) 🙂

I think everyone learned that at this point. At least on this forum. Those who didn't can't be fixed.

That's right, I save my key to the ebook. They will be more secure and not attacked by hackkers
Don't leave assets on exchanges, keep them in your cold wallet.

And Binance initially too, they were strong but when it comes to the SEC there will certainly be some impact on the crypto market.
Likewise, Coinbase might also get some problems. Although it looks strong it is not recommended to store all assets in any CEX, the safest is a personal wallet, Non-Custodial Wallet because it has full control without third parties.

Yes, this is trending news at the moment, but as per the facts. The only thing affected is Binance.US, and Binance.com is not affected at all.
That's what CZ said on his Twitter.

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/06/07/wyKP2.png
https://twitter.com/cz_binance/status/1666202238933426178

I am very excited to search your ebook on amazon store next, and when I am luck I found your key there.

I am happy to hear atm, maybe next time .com is the target