Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin is dying, it is not surviving the NFT attack. The mempool is permanently clogged with ordnials, and the developers don't seem to have any resistance plans. Even here, at these forums, there a lot of trolls writing dozens of layers of abstract nonsense in support of ordinals and totally ignoring the fact that normal payments with bitcoin have become impossible, as simple as that.

It's been a few months now, and there are no tiniest signs of recovery. That was it. I'm going to exchange my bitcoins to another cryptocurrency now. Since I am switching currencies anyway, I want to choose a good one, preferably eliminating the other problems bitcoin has (apart from ordinals), and not gaining more problems. I think I'm not the only one here who thinks about the same ideas, so I am creating this thread.

Specifically, for me at least, "a good currency" means the following:

1. Decentralization, at least the same level as bitcoin has.
2. Open-source, preferably with a package available in one of the major linux distributions (this ensures at least some level of information safety).
3. Privacy must be better than bitcoin has. Mixers are a very weak point of bitcoin, making a lot of centralization necessary.
4. A strong anti-NFT position of developers. After switching currencies, I don't want to face the same problem I escaped from.

My own research:

I found 3 popular currencies that (apparently?) meet these criteria, more or less: dash, monero, and zcash. As for open-source, they all have sources available for download, but the only one I found in a major official repo was monero, in debian. On the other hand, monero still looks "beta" in the sense that the version number starts with 0, unlike with dash or zcash.

Speaking of privacy, I see some contradictory information. Sometimes I see claims that monero offers better privacy, sometimes I see claims that monero "mixes" your transaction only with transfers of the same or similar amounts, while zcash "mixes" your transaction with many more others. Does anyone here know better or more precise details?

Speaking of NFT, I could not find any specific information about dash or zcash. Monero seems to resist. It looks like they have limited "the size of tx_extra" (if I understand correctly, this is some kind of "comments" field, and this was what the NFT attackers used against bitcoin) to 1k (https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/8733), hoping that this will eliminate NFT.

Any other opinions, advantages, or disadvantages of these 3 currencies?

Even with the congestion of the current and subsequent network in the Bitcoin blockchain, it is not enough for you to call Bitcoin dead and at some point, I don't see the network crisis as an attack from other developers on the Bitcoin network just to keep it from scaling, it's still very ok and welcomed to see such if that be, because of such attacks will help to build the network in a more formidable manner.


I am sure most bitcoin users are finding their way around the crisis and by so doing,  choosing the right time and fees for your transactions, so by so doing you can effortlessly avoid paying such exorbitant fees and waiting time.

Are you sure that it's not surviving? I think that you have to look again at mempool. Yeah, it's annoying that it has become quite expensive for the transaction fees thanks to ordinals but that doesn't mean it's not surviving. Because if you say so then there's no way that everyone will keep up with Bitcoin and will stay on this.

Nah, it's still possible. The fees have dropped too much and it's still affordable in centavos.

What are you talking about bitcoin is dying lol.  Bitcoin runs the market.  Nothing goes anywhere until bitcoin does.  You think nfts are gonna push bitcoin off its petistal you haven't been around long enough.  Everyone has claimed bitcoin has been dying since 2010.  How's that prediction faired so far?

In terms of reliability, Bitcoin, despite the ancient script, is better than other blockchains. Recently, I don't remember the news that bitcoins could be stolen somewhere. Regarding the fees, it is more acceptable than the fee value that has been observed recently on the Ethereum network.

Will I change your mindset about bitcoin after I read your entire post? No - you can choose your own path and we ^{[those who are optimistic about bitcoin]} will choose theirs. There is no compulsion to agree to bitcoin forever when you trust that some other altcoin can help you. Do as you please as long as it's good for you - bitcoin is not going to die just because of mempool congestion problem.

Can't believe there is still a situation like this, it just doesn't feel like something is right, why do people still think this? I mean bitcoin has been "dead" a million times it started and each time it went up without an issue and nothing happened. Why do people keep thinking that bitcoin will die, its not dying, it hasn't and it won't. Just accept the fact that it will be nothing more than just a hitch on the way and we will go over this and move on. I keep seeing "this one is different!!" anytime a new bad thing happens and for some reason it just keeps becoming more and more boring. Know that this is a temporary thing, and bitcoin will survive this, and stop doubting if bitcoin will survive or not, it always does.

Oh, wow, I was so impressed by your incredibly insightful comment that I couldn't help but stop reading right there. Clearly, you are a true expert in the field.  ;D

By the way, just in case you have some unconfirmed transactions stuck, according to mempool.space, the current recommended high priority transaction fee is around 38 sat/vB. Make a note of it.

Bitcoin is not dead. Bitcoin is just purging people who don't really believe in the awesomeness it brings to this market. You must know that something new always comes under pressure from its predecessors, and bitcoin is no exception. So despite facing many challenges, it still continuously recovers and grows stronger. This is something people have to realize: the power of bitcoin is really great, so there is no doubt about what it is doing. Bitcoin will never die; it will forever exist from now until the future.

Lol, bitcoin has survived may trials and tribulations in the past, we've seen this kind of spamming in 2017 and yet we reach all time high?

Good title and click bait for the OP, but it seems he didn't understand and just hyping the ordinals or those privacy coins.

But I do hope that you know that government is running after privacy based coins now and Binance has delist majority of them,


https://cryptonews.com/news/binance-targets-privacy-coins-for-delisting-four-european-countries-whats-going-on.htm

Only those people who don't know what is the current situation always call that bitcoin is dead since once there's an issues they easily get panic or been affected on some bad condition happened to it. They didn't see the whole picture and how still bitcoin perform despite those challenges. We always see that bitcoin recovers back after the storm so there's no need for us to get worried if network congestion occurs since this is not new to bitcoin.

Maybe for newbies they need to chill out and just wait for things to clear out since as we see bitcoin is pretty fine these days.

I was quite surprised to read the title of your thread: How can it be said to be dead while Bitcoin is still around today with the first largest market cap?" Then what about some of the privacy coins you offer? Currently, some countries prohibit trading privacy coins, in fact, this is a problem for this type of privacy coin.
Network problems like you mentioned back then happened to Ethereum when CryptoKitties first appeared, But see now? Everything has been resolved, Sometimes a problem that we think has no solution does not mean there really is no solution, because maybe we are not experts in that field or maybe many people are more experts than us.

Arr you sure that Bitcoin is dead? You can only say Bitcoin is dead when it didn't survive and not a single person is using Bitcoin. It is true that there are lots of transactions that you can see in the explorer or in mempool.space but it isn't enough to make Bitcoin dead. If you are not aware, Bitcoin existed for many years since 2009 and I don't think that Bitcoin will be dead. My guess on you said that Bitcoin is dead is because you're more on Altcoin which doesn't even come close to Bitcoin. Well, that's your choice and opinion.

Bitcoin has overcome worse than this. This is going to be another nothing burger fud.

So basically you want something where people will be restricted of doing anything things you don't like?

You just picked coins that are going to get kicked from any known CEXes. Maybe you just want to play cryptopunk anarchist and do person to person trading, nothing wrong with that but just be aware that prices are going to go down after liquidity of cexes goes down. You might find buyers though, just like with nfts.

But if we really are looking for alternative to BTC, my money is in ETH.

If Bitcoin dies, then we will most likely find it difficult to buy these cryptocurrencies because it is difficult to find an exchange that lists them, and therefore their price will be lower, which means more centralization if the demand for the currency decreases. It is true that Bitcoin is not ideal, but the reasons you mentioned are more fears than real problems, and the most altcoins has lower fees or less congestion in the blocks because its blocks are large and most of those blocks are mined empty so you need several blocks before your transaction is considered secure while in Bitcoin, one confirmation is enough.

By taking some analysis, you will find that zcash is not a currency of privacy, and here you will find yourself between Dash, which offers acceptable privacy in exchange for ease of use, and Monero, which represents better privacy with difficulty in use.
where you will buy them and how you will sell them in the future with all the current legislation  Monero terminated in Italy, along with other privacy coins (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5454678.0)

your base saying that Bitcoin is dead due to just Ordinal issues doesn't make any sense at all. bitcoin is not dead, now or in the future, want to know why? because there are still many who have pinned their hopes on bitcoin even when the bitcoin market dropped in 2018, there are still many who still hold bitcoin, and the proof is that it managed to reach its ATH in 2021.

so just because Ordinal causing problems to the bitcoin network doesn't necessarily make bitcoin an unreliable digital asset, it just proves that bitcoin still needs improvement, and as long as bitcoin core dev can improve bitcoin for the better, I think that there isn't yet an asset digital technology that can rival bitcoin in terms of economics and architecture.

With phishing attacks, the way to steal it from other people is through that or taking it personally from a person you know physically. And that's why we get news like this (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bitcoin-millionaire-crypto-founder-found-025352097.html)

Right, when the hype of NFTs and play to earn games, I even managed to pay more than $100 just for the fee and that sucks because I have no choice by that time as I can't move my funds if I wouldn't do the transaction.

All those who say Bitcoin is dead are people who don't understand how Bitcoin is alive until now,
you are right Bitcoin has been said to be dead since the price of Bitcoin was below $ 1000 haha LoL isn't it?
then look at the current price of 1 Bitcoin? yes, it touched $ 27k even in 2021 the Bitcoin price went crazy up to $ 64k and now it is indeed being corrected,
and expert predictions 2024-2025 will be a bullish year for Bitcoin.

The term "bitcoin is dead" had been used a lots for many years now yet bitcoin is still alive and kicking. So I don't think bitcoin will be dead in fact it was never dead, it's just market has its own cycle that's why people will keep using that abused terms up until this year. Congestions are normal hence many people were using it that's why network will have a delay some times if we are using it. Only haters will say bitcoin is dead while true supporters will praise bitcoin and glorify it because of what bitcoin brings to them.

Some minor issues surrounding the bitcoin story, I wonder if the OP has really observed what's happened to the crypto market all this time, I think everyone here can feel the In the first quarter of 2023, things were buoyant and indeed some of the people's optimism for the crypto market was up.

Privacy currencies in the crypto space are becoming a hot topic in the blockchain and crypto community. My point is that using privacy currencies has its own advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of using Privacy currencies is to help users protect privacy and secure transactions, especially when there are high security requirements. In addition, these currencies can help users avoid being tracked or monitored by other governments, organizations or individuals. However, using privacy currencies also has opposites such as the risk of using this money for illegal activities such as money laundering and illegal item trade. Privacy currencies can also be banned or restricted by governments or financial institutions and make currency conversion difficult for those who want to convert to mainstream cryptocurrencies. As such, on a case-by-case basis, the use of privacy currencies may or may not be appropriate, and the use of these currencies must comply with the law and strict regulatory requirements.

Bitcoin is not going anywhere and your post show that you are fond of altcoins and have no respect for btc. NFTS are implement in Btc chain and we faced high fee and failed of transaction some weeks ago but now everything become normal and gas fee is down. The Altcoins you mentioned are not trust Worthy. Btc is most trusted coins and will never die.

Its not that bad, i know you are btc maxis but ordinal is good attraction to people who willing to do the NFT thing. Did you see how much marketcap has been stolen from btc to those NFT's chain ? It is more then half of trillion dollar. The other thing about inscription is BRC20. BRC20 will not survive if nobody can upgrade it, because it is still NFT and not fungible like token on smart contract.

First of all, I don't think Bitcoin will die. It's just not possible due to the heavy demand that it is getting day by day. Secondly, if let say it's possible and only those privacy coins are left, I think there will always be exchange that will list them. For now, when I check Monero, it is still listed on many big exchangers including Binance. It might also be available on a decentralized exchange because this is where its nature at, to be private.

We can also buy and sell it in the forum, social media sites, Telegram and other platforms. And who says Bitcoin is not ideal? Then what crypto is ideal? Currently there are no cryptos who are on the level of BTC. It is the most ideal coin here in the crypto world.

I agree with you, friend, everything always has a process and must be done where if there is a problem, the situation is sure to make it happen, with patience you will definitely return to the situation, because everything must continue to go well and will be normal and it happens often and repeats .

agree, if everyone doesn't believe in the existence of bitcoin then it is certain that crypto will also disappear and be buried together with bitcoin, it seems that it will be difficult to happen but if others disappear and are replaced by new ones, it often happens, not for bitcoin.

If you all still hope that bitcoin will recover, what are you doing here, at the altcoins forum, instead of the main forum branch, specifically the ordinals thread? I've been seeing such recovery hopes from the very beginning of ordinals, like "just wait a week and it will all be gone", "it's just a hype, just wait a few more weeks", "just wait a month or two", etc. And I am watching the mempool size, and I see 100MB, 200MB, 300MB, and no recovery. And the blockchain is rapidly transforming from a transaction database into a modern art trash database. How long do you suggest to wait further? You are not even suggesting any resistance plans (or speaking about any resistance happening without our help), you are suggesting to just wait and hope.

No, thanks. I've been waiting enough, this is a made decision for me. I wasn't asking if there is hope for bitcoin recovery. I was asking, and I am still asking, which altcoin is better, which one meets the 4 criteria better.

And please don't suggest ETH, it was an utter garbage from the very beginning, with it's dreadful for privacy idea of "reputation of addresses". And if I remember correctly, the NFT attack was originally introduced and tested (and is still ongoing) exactly there, before the production-run on bitcoin.

Thank you for the only comment that actually tries to answer my question. Could you be more specific? What are the main privacy issues/attack vectors with zcash? What are the priacy flaws of dash (that make you call it's pivacy just "acceptable" in contrast with monero's "better" privacy)?

PS I don't care about legality. Bitcoin and all other cryptocurrenies were de facto illegal and politically incorrect from the very beginning, and it was, and it is just a matter of time when it becomes illegal de jure, unless the governments finds a way to destroy crypto differently, with the NFT attacks, for example. All legal life available is rapidly shrinking to pray on SJWs, repent, and beg for their forgiveness. We all will be illegal people very soon (and de facto we already are), the question is, how to survive that. The question is not, which cryptocurrencies the SJWs will mercifully permit, the question is, which cryptocurrencies are able to resist.

See for yourself how your problems affect your investment journey with the crypto market. I just want to reiterate the mainstream bitcoin in crypto and it will be very hard to change, but you may also like to look for limitations and find out for yourself what you consider potential or opportunity, and everything is completely free in all decisions. My view on investing with this market, everything that says complicated is very complicated but thinks it's simple is actually very simple, the ability to evaluate as well as the ability to spend capital every day people will be different, so it offers different criteria.

It is only his speculation, Bitcoin will stay as long as we have crypto market. Bitcoin cannot be separated from crypto world because it is the main coin. I believe crypto may disappear if we have no more Bitcoin. It is like the soul of all crypto coins, not only as the mother of crypto coins. Just imagine, who will trust other crypto coins if the main coin (BTC) dies?

Regarding the transfer fees, I know it is increasing but it still can be acceptable. I'm sure the transfer fees will be decreasing in the future, just keep patient until it decreases. In my opinion, OP thinks BTC will die because the price seems difficult to increase now, it is not about the transfer fees. I don't know how OP is really sure about that, he probably doesn't understand about the bearish-bullish season. He is not aware that we are still in the bearish season, that's why the price still can't increase quickly and significantly.

I also don't see any death from bitcoin, currently the crypto market is sluggish but development can still be done.
so shouldn't call bitcoin dead, because this is just a decline phase.

The real time problem will make you to depend on the invested money.So if you are going to use the money for the problem,then you are force to use the capital investment.Then you will withdraw the funds with profit or loss.If you withdraw with the profit,their will be no problem.But if you lose the money by withdrawing at loss,it will be the big burden.When you plan to invest the market, you need to wait for the market to respond in positive way.So that we can earn from complete trade.

A kingdom without a king is never possible, Bitcoin is the king of the cryptocurrency world. If the king dies, no subjects will survive.I don't understand why people keep thinking that Bitcoin will die, but Bitcoin has faced many challenges and has continuously recovered and become stronger day by day.Currently there is no exchange where Bitcoin is not listed and there is no crypto that is not at the level of BTC. Everyone knows that Bitcoin is the most popular currency in the crypto world.

We've been hearing about such countless times and people think that it's really happening just because the fees were quite up and when it's quite slow.
The fees have dropped as I have been looking at it at most times and it's really intriguing to see people that deal always with their arguments about the fees. Yeah, it's important but they have to look at that picture that it's not gonna be high always. It was up but not anymore today and it's stabilizing to its fees and keeps on decreasing.

At least for its price, it's stabilizing as well. They're rushing to see new ATH and will turn into kind holders and investors when it does.

This is a joke right? Bitcoin is not dying, it is currently still the highest market cap on the crypto market. Most of the altcoin price is still dependent on Bitcoin, so Bitcoin is far from dying. It is true that the hype for Bitcoin and Crypto in general is decreasing but it doesn't mean Bitcoin or crypto itself is dying. From my point of view, Bitcoin will just need to sustain a little bit more time to prove that it's reliable

I've saw bitcoin is dead post here too many times already and everyone including them is partying with their gains when bitcoin rise up in value during bull market. What ever bad image bitcoin had in the past, and today which is ordinals. Bitcoin won't die because of it. With the number of supporters even if bitcoin is suffering from a gas price crisis, there are someone who are still willing to use it. Remember the outragous ETH gas fee before? When NFT and nft based altcoins are on trend? There are someone who  doesn't really care that much on how much they spend on gas fees. There are also concious ones who are thinking if they will push through a transaction but in the end, they do it anyways. Bitcoin always has a demand and just like what happened to ETH last bull market, No one will care about gas fees if they really want bitcoins.

I'm also confused, how can they call it dead, because right now bitcoin and the entire crypto market is in a downward phase, but when the time comes, I think the op will change his words, because he said based on the situation and not looking at history.

bitcoin did not die in 2022 when FTX and many important projects failed, I do not think it will fail in the future, I would say instead be careful with altcoins because they can fail

how many times people post that BTC is dying, and yet, it is still standing to where it is right now. no alt has replaced its position yet, and not seeing that in the very near future.
the OP might revise his post. and contemplate on the reality about BTC market. i don't know the reason why the OP seemed to be in favour with dash, monero or zcash aside from his mentioned features. but maybe, he's holding some of these alts. but need to accept the fact that before any alt will surpass BTC, it should at least attain the popularity of usage of BTC

obviously , He is shilling for altcoins that is why he keeps telling Bitcoin to be hopeless , if bitcoin will die then what about altcoin? will this be enough for us to believe in everything he says?
and also the fee now is lowering day by day  so what is the sense of pointing about the high fee when it is almost over now.
believe in what you said and OP is going nowhere from his perspective .

I don't think, your research is correct by saying Bitcoin is dying because the market price just drop down for investors to use the opportunity to buy and hodl for the bullish market to come before they can sell to make a passive income. I will advice you to use this period to increase your capital to purchase Bitcoin and apply long term hodling like 2 or 3 years before you can visit the market to know that Bitcoin is not dead but live forever. Based on the signs that is going on in the market since the beginning of this year, showed that those altcoins you mentioned can't take the place of Bitcoin in the nearest future so you need to change your mind to potential coins that will make you feel good when you sell.

no one said bitcoin is dead, if you say so it means you haven't seen bitcoin fall very deeply from 19600 to 3000 in 2018, it also happened this year but not as bad as yesterday, because many have adopted bitcoin, so the price will continue going up, and also the low point will be different from the last time.

problems with the mempool are temporary and they do not pose any threat. Therefore, the headline turned out to be very loud, but in fact your fears are in vain. Many people trade and hold bitcoin on exchanges and do not withdraw it from there, so many people do not even know that there are problems with transactions now.

People would be having this kind of common lines towards Bitcoin specially on declining prices.

1. Bitcoin is dead
2. Bitcoin is outdated
3. Bitcoin would be overtaken with some better coins
4. Bitcoin cant be regulated

How many times Bitcoin died?
Bitcoin has died 474 times

From Bitcoin Obituaries - "Bitcoin is Dead" Declared 400+ Times
https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/

But we are still breathing and still going strong even after a decade+. Well, we do have our
own choices though on which one or where we would really be making investment.

Still no answer to the original question about comparison of the three altcoins. Is this an altcoin forum or what?

If you all think bitcoin is able to resist the NFT/ordinals attack, why don't you go to the main forum, where the attack is discussed? There, some people at least understand the threats it poses (although still no signs of resistance). Maybe you can offer some approaches how to resist the NFT attack if you think it can be overthrown?

I've been hearing or reading those lines for so many times.
I couldn't count how many times Bitcoin has died now ever since I got into crypto community.
If we would look at it there would always be some crypto that would fit on Bitcoins flaw but that doesn't mean that it would take it's place.

It seems that those who say this are afraid that it will actually happen so that maybe the investment they have made will be lost, but is it actually possible for it to happen? it's always possible if there is a substitute that can provide more than bitcoin, so many people switch from bitcoin. but if there is none then when the price of bitcoin decreases it is certain that many will buy it, then bitcoin will not disappear.

When we are discussing about bitcoin, we cannot do without mentioning that it's the most reliable cryptocurrency either people like it or not, the fact the bitcoin is so accomodative to have the inclusion of Inscribed ordinals isn't a vulnerability to the network but a more way to show how diversifying it is, ordinals mean no attack quite alright but what bitcoin did cannot be accomplished by any other crypto n this regards and yet nothing changed about it being affected, bitcoin has cone to remain and stay, with or without ordinals.

I don't understand why would people still think that Bitcoin will die or Bitcoin is dead when there are absolutely no signs of anything like that. Is Bitcoin's price going down constantly? No. Are people abandoning Bitcoin and switching to other alternatives? No. Are industrial investors withdrawing their investments from Bitcoin? No. Since none of these are true, I don't see any reason for people to think about that.

People need to understand that Bitcoin is not going to die, it is here to stay for at least a few more decades, we don't know what might happen in the future because there can be better technology but for now, there is none, so nothing can replace Bitcoin for the time being.

Somehow some people think that Bitcoin is going to die and sometimes what they say is baseless,
things like that are just a waste of time because until now Bitcoin still exists and is still the king of crypto,
we never know what will happen in the future so just follow the developments.

These are completely baseless. It's hard to understand how I see people talking so much about this when many people themselves are still investing in bitcoin. If you are afraid, why not go back to other investment channels such as gold, stocks, ... but just invest in bitcoin. Complaints less, let's look at the reality and see how bitcoin has maintained the blockchain for more than a decade. So while its fate is uncertain, let's see how it develops further into the future.

This is the other way around, despite the attacks of SEC on crypto currencies Bitcoin still show dominance no matter what and many institutions are jumping now on Bitcoin that's the reason why we are above $30k again. Sick and tired of reading that Bitcoin is Dead in fact it is the future payment system and store value that is better than gold!

They lose, the investment is not as expected simply lack of knowledge and experience about it. Because the market it always covers such things, it is not born to please us, but we must find satisfaction with them. I understand how some people feel that btc is bad for them, when you're not patient enough with the market and just let it rule you, it's hard to feel satisfied. Not only another investment channel, but what needs to be corrected is the knowledge when participating so that you do not have to be dissatisfied with everything.

I don't think Bitcoin is dying. But I can say all altcoins are dying after the some time including dash, monero and zcash. Because Bitcoin is the king of the cryptos.

Only people who lose can say things like that, I'm sure institutional investors, influencer investors, retail investors will not say that Bitcoin is dead and will not live,
because investors have enjoyed and believe the results of Bitcoin are very real,
even the technology below Bitcoin is Blockchain has also been implemented worldwide, so mass adoption will continue to occur.

@OP you see btc dying and yet you found coins like dash, monero, and zcash as active and alive  ??? you gotta be kidding me.
Yeah it is very obvious that you are either clueless or a troll and I think you are the later.
Sure Btc is definitely dying so should you go load up on dash ASAP.   ;)

If the btc price will death then crypto market will death surely so we couldn’t said that. Bitcoin alive always and you should wait still start bull market so never nervous for price. You may know bitcoin price unstable so how we could expect always up! Anyway if crypto market will received millions investors then the price of bitcoin will rising.

Somehow some people think Bitcoin will die because I don't think Bitcoin will die easily,
regarding the market it's better to react by staying calm and when it's bullish everything will go up,
I hope people don't have to worry too much.

While it is true I think allowing ordinals on bitcoin has been a disaster, it is not as if this is a mistake that is impossible to correct, if anything we just need the developers to agree to remove this feature and then everything will return to the way things were, and I think a great deal of the community will be behind this change as the only ones that benefited from such change are scammers and speculators which care nothing about the network they are using.

you have been online recently but where is that "Permanently Clogged Mempool"?   because upon checking these days it seems that there are already good flow?
week later what is the movement of those coins and are you shilling about those mate?

there is no disadvantage but still bitcoin is not dying and never die before altcoins that you mentioned .