Bitcoin Forum

BlackRock is set to have a signed collaborative agreement with the exchange Coinbase on Bitcoin Exchange Traded Fund (ETF) to allows the use of thier  Spot trading market values for proceedings of their services with their investors, but it's to recall that the Security Exchange Commission (SEC) in US have always oppose any attempt for the use of this same bitcoin ETF grant over time and on the same time granted many applications in time passed for Bitcoin Traded Fund over many institutions.


We could notice that the Security Exchange Commission (SEC) have been the one saddled with the responsibility to monitor the affairs of Exchange Traded Fund (ETF) and we hope to see their grant and approval on BlackRock and not a turned offer decision, BlackRock believes this will lead to a rapid business development it has created and served an avenue for them to deliver best with it's clients and investors over Spot Bitcoin ETF it's going for.

I am not quite certain if I should be optimistic or not because the SEC with uncle Gary in charge have denied all applications for a Bitcoin ETF.

This news development also appears like the cryptonews media have no more new storylines to write and have decided to reuse an old storyline from 2020 and 2021 hehehe. Does BlackRock know something or will we be their exit liquidity again?

Turns out this is not an ETF it’s a trust. Similar to GBTC and GLD. So it’s not exactly the same but for us users it doesn’t make a difference.

SEC has been rejecting these ETFs for years so why is this a big deal? Well because it’s BlackRock which is huge in the industry and they wouldn’t waste their time if they knew it wouldn’t have a chance at getting approved. Also since it’s a trust it has a better chance of getting approved.

I think people should be cautiously optimistic as all the past hype we had with ETF filings ended up being a nothing burger. Though on the bright side, we're talking about BlockRock here which is a huge ass company. They most definitely have the resources to hopefully get this approved.

Fuck centralized entities. Non-custodial bitcoin only or bust.

For all those saying that this isn't the first time that Black Rock tried to get ETF approval and SEC was always there to reject, there is something we are missing here.

Ask yourself, why now? Why now that SEC is presently destroying the crypto market? This should be the best time for Black Rock to keep their mouth shut but they made this move again and now that all this shits are happening?

Black ROCk is up to something, they don't just come out now only to get rejected again, they have heard something, they know something we don't, it seems something is about to go down.

It's all present there, we are not just looking enough, this time, with the ETF, could be different.

With all the news regarding the SEC, ETF approval is excluded at the present time, but it may be the news that may move the price in 2025, just as it was with Tesla and Elon Musk, especially since in the year 2024 economic changes may occur in the United States that make what was currently excluded It is something possible in the future.

In general, I do not hope that someone is overly optimistic that this will not happen soon or will not happen with the current market capacity.

Well i may not be in total support to your points raised here but also, if we are to give it more of a closer look, we should be able to derive one of two facts out of this, some have already said that it was at the cause of the move by BlackRock on Spot Bitcoin ETF that revived the market abit from going more downward below $24,000 which resulted that it experience a steady rise of about 1.3% surge within the 24 hours of when this news came in, that catapulted it resistance to $25, 700 as at yesterday's market price, but let's keep on being anticipated for more things getting unfold through this.

Let's support to fire that scammer to save the cryptocurrency industry.

Uncle Gary did not protect investors when he could but he paid his attention on something else, personal power. From his past failures and ignorance to protect investors in fiascos of Terra and FTX, I don't believe in his words that he does things to protect investors.

His words usually are not backed by existence laws and regulations and it's not a right style of a person who in charge of a very important position, Chair of SEC.

Given the connections/privileges that Blackrock must have, don't you think that the SEC is acting as an auditing tool for Blackrock in this case?

Before backing the BTC's ETF, wouldn't it be in Blackrock's interest to ensure that Coinbase has already weathered the storm and is solvent and in compliance with SEC and other regulations?

reading into the filing.. blackrock are trying to be vague about the conversion rate..
they say things like


this means the spot wont be exact 1:1 with bitcoin. it will vary slightly. much like how stable coins are never actually 100% 1:1

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i do laugh when they say

funny part is that investors buying shares need to manage passwords portfolios and interfacing with a share trading platform..

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as for if blackrock should be using coinbase as the custodian vault.. well the same story is for grayscale
if enough businesses mention their desire to trust coinbase it pushes the SEC to not try to destroy coinbase. because if the SEC tries to destroy coinbase directly causing business costs/losses. the businesses can then sue the SEC

Well, it's a whole new story this morning, Binance Exchange have already strike a deal with SEC and now all US customer's funds are back with Binance, something that I have been thinking as the only solution to the problem, they want the piece of the pie, that's all.

I knew that's why Black Rock had the confidence all along, they knew that this time around will be different and they must have known that SEC will settle with Binance, the confidence is now back to the crypto community either you like it or not.

The Hong Kong regulators have have also revealed that the country wants to be the international crypto hub very fast, that's why they have forced their banks to offer services to Bitcoin and crypto.

Things are going well in disguise of looking bad.

Unfortunately, this approach is for all companies and even individuals. I do not know why the individual is afraid of keeping his money to the extent that he trusts it with these central entities or cloud services or any service that tells him that your money is safe and you can access it whenever you want, so trust funds like this will bring the wealthy who think about Bitcoin As an investment asset next to their investment portfolios without even diligence in understanding what Bitcoin is.


I see all the tightening that is happening now as an attempt to keep the multinational platforms out of the US and therefore Coinbase will be the beneficiary of any regulatory complications.

well the groups that partner with the DCG(grayscale/blockstream/coinbase) family want to set barriers of entry and have hoarding bitcoin as annoying as hell for individuals all so that people rely on central figures to become the authorisers of value. and ofcourse take a middleman fee for the service.

do you think that hundreds of millions of dollars being pumped into the core developer dev group was a 'free hand-out'. nah, its to set features and functions to make bitcoin annoying to handle directly. and also as a separate campaign lobby regulators to set barriers of entry so that no independent small international business cant just set up shop in crypto, but allow easy entry for the ready set up institutions already regulated to get a free pass
its wallstreet all over again

The approval record for Blackrock requesting ETF’s by the SEC is 575 with 1 denial. 575-1 I think the odds are heavily in the favour of approval. This is probably why the SEC has denied all spot bitcoin ETF’s previously, they were paving the way for the big boys.

Obviously not your keys not your coins but if this is approved institutional investors will pile in. Pension funds & 401k’s will be permitted to invest. This will drive the next big run up. Buckle up, it’s going to be fun.

the benefits hoped would be that if approved.
a. blackrock will set precedence of a accepted template which other institutions can then emulate. and yes previous applications declined do seem to be about the SEC waiting for their wallstreet big boy pals to be first movers.
b. if buying 1k bundles of bitcoin to call them 'baskets' of shares say 40,000shares. the hopes are alot of whale purchasing on open CEX market to push the price up

however most of these ETF sponsors have already grabbed loads of coins via private OTC markets which have not impacted the CEX market price. and if they continue to just buy from private OTC services then new basket creations wont push the CEX market price up much

i can easily see DCG selling their 'trust' to blakcrock if blackrock gets approved where DCG become partners or exit to retire to an exotic island passing their closed private customers over to blackrock to manage

Never mind trying to be vague about the conversion rate, what's this?


They're trying to be vague in what truly is Bitcoin, and they're making themselves have the legal right to tell their investors that, in case of a hard fork, the "real Bitcoin" will be under their discretion.

BlackRock could essentially fork Bitcoin, then tell the holders of their ETF that it's the real Bitcoin.

Plus they should specify the date of "in the event of a hard fork", and say forks before X are not Bitcoin. From the current wording, BlackRock could say that BCash is Bitcoin under their discretion?

windfury..  read more

basically they will follow the majority of the community in regards to;

majority of community agreement based on
hashrate
services(exchanges, merchants)
and yep follow the chain core devs are authoritarian of

however.. my main point in other posts is that the share price will not precisely match bitcoins spot price due to many factors such as the one mentioned in my previous post
things like
meaning 1 share will not be equal forever to 0.000x btc
meaning if you bought 1 share 20 years ago expect it to have atleast 40% less sats to convert to after atleast the sponsor fee deducts 2% of sats from the conversion rate each year plus all of the trusts own costs


however if you only wish to learn about forks
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1980994/000143774923017574/bit20230608_s1.htm
page 10
it mentions when bitcoin does do a fork. the sponsors claim rights to the 'air-drop'- 'fork coins' which the sponsor can sell at its own leisure under its own discretion. but vaguely suggests that it will pay it out to share holders as dividends in the form of fiat money. i say vaguely because theres no guarantee and instead they can just not claim forked coins to sell to give dividends

Anyone have any details of their agreement with Coinbase? I’m wondering if Coinbase takes a percentage of the total holdings or if it was a one time thing or what. If it’s a deal based on a percentage and this ETF turns out to be massive, this could be a good source of revenue for Coinbase. That to me makes them a more interesting investment than their fee heavy exchange.

coinbase offers a vault service
coinbase is the service provider and blackrock are the customer of coinbase vault.
coinbase is simply the vault(custodian) for blackrocks coins in trust

its not the same as the "partnership" coinbase has with grayscale

blackrock is simply a customer of coinbase

Binance.us has been settled and Binance agreed to only hire US base employees. Partner or not, Binance.us would also be interested if Coinbase makes money out of being custodial of the BTC for the Blackrock customers.

For a long time, BTC ETF has been proposed over and over, it would be the first in history to have BTC Spot ETF. This legitimizes institutions that are coming to buy your Bitcoin.

As others have said, I'm smelling rejection from a far, there is going to be a big resistance from Gensler himself.

On the other hand, why not just those wealthy directly invest on Bitcoin itself, just simply buy a hardware wallet and put their investment simply as that. I guess this is one reason why old and traditional investors are into into Bitcoin because of too much technicalities involved. And the same reason why BlackRock created this Shares Bitcoin Trust, so that their customers wouldn't go on the intricacies that I have mentioned.

Still, a lot of people are not expecting that Bitcoin ETF will be approved. Even though that is what most people think, I am still supporting that these Bitcoin ETF will be approved because I believe it's a good thing also especially what happened to Gold ETF before.
It will help Bitcoin to be known or legitimized in the eyes of people, especially the regulators.

Turns out that blackrock doesn’t file these requests when they know it has a chance of being rejected. They apparently have like a 550 approvals and 1 rejection for all their etfs. So this means that this etf is going to be approved most likely.

Will it cause a rally? Well I think it will be a buy the rumor and sell the news event like before. When BTC futures were listed and when Bitcoin etf Bito was listed they all marked the top. I have a feeling this won’t be any different.

coming for mine? nah. im hoarding for another decade or so (unless bitcoin network completely breaks utility ease).. (you know 'the burden of users using actual bitcoin' they hint at)

i see 2 paths for the "institutions"
if approved
a. blackrock becomes the defacto sole spot ETF where it has 'agents' managing baskets. where by grayscale, institutions and even binance become agents of blackrock. offering blackrock shares by these exchanges first selling their reserved btc to blackrock and then taking blackrocks share equivalents back as baskets of shares to then offer customers

b. blackrock sets precedence and everyone copies the template format which blackrock set, knowing it will get instant approval and loads of spot ETF's start up with their own share scheme.

in point A scenario institutions wont be buying coin they will be buying share baskets to then offer shares to institutions customers. where only blackrock does the buying/hoarding of coin. and institutions just give blackrock billions in fiat to buy baskets of shares

in point B scenario we see lots of institutions have their own trusts, buying clusters of coin to form their own baskets to then create share equivalents branded as each institutions share scheme.. however it then becomes a bigger cost/burden on their own regulation management and dilutes the whole offering by having competition. so i see scenario A being the more plausible route

But it's not an ETF, but a Trust as asadeb already posted. Perhaps that helps increases its probability to be accepted? Plus another poster said BlackRock has had only one rejection in all of its applications with the SEC. Those odds are looking very very good for BlackRock. BlockRock is a well-connected company, they probably know somebody from the government who could "ask" Gensler for an approval.


Correction. The chain the Core Developers are being allowed to be the steward of.

yes it is a trust.. learn what the T of ETF means *

but ontop of being a Trust, it's a trust based on Funds. (rather then property like real estate, art, IP, cars)
so thats the F part
and they have an Exchange system too which explains the E part(as oppose to just being a locked value trust, storing value until a richguys offspring/relative reaches a certain age)

edit to respond to below
*not literally(like a 5 year old) i mean figuratively as in learn how the structure is laid out of most ETF

exchange and traded mean the same synonym.. most people in the finance world treat the T as TRUST because thats the structure they set up for it in more then 9/10 cases.

if you think that ETF's are never and have never been structured as a trust before then you really do need to learn more.
heck even grayscales ETF offering is in the structure of a trust as just one example

seems you only want to take the literal 5yo approach to thinking about things, rather then researching further. i regret trying to simplifying it for you. seems people do need to put the extra leg work into explaining things..
so please go learn more about ETF and their structure. because in more then 9/10 cases they are all trust based systems

if it was company ownership based then thats just normal stocks and shares systems not an ETF. learn the difference of the structure that makes things a ETF instead of a standard company share ownership scheme. for your own learning benefit

 ::)

E.T.F. = Exchange Traded Fund

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exchange-traded_fund


Doubling down are we?

In the context of this topic, the technical differences between an ETF and a Trust matters. Because like what adaseb posted, if BlackRock's application is technically for a Trust like Grayscale's GBTC, then the public should be well-informed to know the differences between the two.  

an ETF is not the same as for instance buying shares in tesla(a company)
an ETF is not about assets of a companies retail function(standard stocks)

an ETF is different

an ETF is about a trust/brand who is offering its assets as collateral against shares of that trust/brand
its a separate category compared to standard stocks and shares of a company.

its standard practice for ETF to be structured like this.
here is a clue for you..
do you know the biggest ETF.. ill tell you its prudential. do you know its official nake of its ETF
"PGIM ETF Trust"
this trust has assets of alot of different investments. majority of them are also stored as.. wait for it.. trusts


the details to scrutinise about blackrock is not that its a trust. but what type of agreements the trust has, for instance in what circumstances can the sponsors dissolve it. if they can. and how.

for instance reading it, it shows that the trust can be dissolved if its forced to register as a MSB, or required to get a money transmitter licence or bitlicence.. and how share holders have no voting rights over decisions of changes to the agreement.

so while you play boring games of "OMG its a trust", move a few decades further on in your understanding of ETF structures and understand what really can make users of an ETF wary.

Agreed, however, the decision on the case between Grayscale and the SEC might be coming soon. If Barry Silbert and Grayscale are victorious, the SEC might have no choice but to approve GBTC's conversion to become an ETF. This will certainly be very optimistic for BlackRock's ETF application hehe.

The skeptical me thinks that BlackRock knows this and with their connections, they might also help Grayscale win their case?

BlackRock has an etf approval rate of 575 - 1. Its highly unlikely they get rejected.

Of course Gensler will bend over for the legacy asset managers and give them a green light, even though nobody wants to clarify exactly which cryptocurrencies are securities and which ones are not.

They mention that, but there's more in that paragraph which possibly could overrule what they have just mentioned.


What they're actually saying is that they can disagree on what everyone considers Bitcoin, and have the lone right to choose what fork is in their ETF. There could be a hash war again and they could choose to side with a forked-altcoin.

Possible trojan horse? What's BlackRock's opinion about E.S.G.?

Why is all these making me feel like Gensler already won this war? Because it looks like this was is plan from the start, the centralization is slowly crawling on everything crypto and it's happening before our eyes, the take over is already happening, are you guys sleeping on this? I think the approval of ETF will only benefits the centralized commodities not people that cares about non custodial actions in crypto space.

If you care about self custody you'll not have anything to do with BTC ETF's, you'll not have any problem using your self custody wallet, buying from an exchange or storing your seed phrase, but it doesn't mean BTC spot ETF's shouldn't be introduced for those who need it. If institutional investors do not want to have self custody of their BTC's, let them purchase through BTC spot ETF's, they know what the risks are, they have to trust a third party and they'll not have their keys, but at least they will be bringing money into the BTC network which can take the network closer to mass adoption.

All that blackrock etf story is only to manipulate and control btc price and make it more centralized. Not sure that this is good news for industry