Bitcoin Forum

****UPDATE**** this website sums it all up: https://bitmap.community/explorer

Bitmap ordinals can be hard to value, what concepts are you using to value them?

And what's your opinion on them?

I guess it's interesting to hear what the community has to say.

Here the conclusions I found on how to value them

1. 1 digit blocks (most valuable ones)

2. 2 digit blocks

3. 3 digit blocks

4. Blocks sub 10000

5. Blocks sub 100000

6. Blocks sub 32486 (2009 blocks, first year of bitcoin)

7. Palindromic Numbers (they are rare numbers, see here (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palindromic_number))

Nr of digits |	Range of Numbers |	Total numbers |	Palindromic numbers in range
1	0-9	10	10
2	10-99	90	9
3	100-999	900	90
4	1000-9999	9000	90
5	10000-99999	90000	900
6	100000-999999	900000	900

Examples: 828, 1001, 33633, 641146, 772277

8. Sequence numbers like 123456 or 654321

9. Repeating numbers like 11111, 21111, 100000 or 201201

10. By block value, see https://bitfeed.live/ for example block 395337 has a value of 1,067,392.4 bitcoin (https://bitfeed.live/block/height/395337)

Sites I use to check block details

https://bitfeed.live/

https://btcbitmap.com/verify

For trading

https://magiceden.io/ordinals/marketplace/bitmap

https://ordinalswallet.com/collection/bitmap

To analyze the market data

I extract all the data from magicdeden and ordinalswallet and then run some scripts on the data

To get all the bitmaps data from magiceden I get the data from their api directly, example url (https://api-mainnet.magiceden.io/v2/ord/btc/tokens?limit=40&offset=40&search=&sortBy=priceAsc&minPrice=0&maxPrice=0&showAll=false&collectionSymbol=bitmap&disablePendingTransactions=true)

For ordinalswallet data I download all their data via their api, example url (https://turbo.ordinalswallet.com/collection/bitmap/inscriptions?offset=0&order=PriceAsc&listed=true&limit=16)

(don't open it via the browser the file is too large, download it as a file, analyze it with a script)

For bitfeed api, first get the block hash (example url (https://bitfeed.live/api/block/height/395337)) and then call the api (example url (https://bitfeed.live/api/block/00000000000000000827a2f746d0591d6a8df160e79abaa4fe89be1ea2f4ac10))

Someone bought some serious amount of bitmap land before people like us who've missed mighty Bitcoin even touched it. On July 13, yes 3 days ago. Now there is no land available that can be claimed. What a pity.

What’s it’s usecase aside from spamming the Bitcoin network. There’s a lot of blockchain which this kind of NFT can done instead they are spamming Bitcoin network by attaching useless piece of shit on every transaction and called a BRC20.

Go to marketplace. There’s tons of them available in the market being sold on a ridiculous hype price for a piece of garbage in blockchain network.

Don't you think bitcoin Mixers have done more damage to bitcoin than all others combined?

Ordinals associated with significant events or milestones, such as blocks from the early days of BTC, may also hold greater value due to their historical context. I personally find them to be an interesting and unique aspect of the Bitcoin Metaverse.

Why would they? Negative press aside, mixers provide better privacy(to a certain extent) both for criminals and non-criminals. It's a tool — expect people with various moral and ethical levels to use it.

As for pricing ordinals, it's like pricing any NFT — it will solely be based on how much people are willing to pay for them for speculation reasons.

I don't think there really is a good way to determine the value something with such an arbitrary rarity. Ultimately, all satoshis are unique using ordinals, so they are all equally rare.

In the end, I don't think satoshis enumerated using Ordinals will hold any collectible value.

But, I am confused. You are using the perceived rarity of the satoshis to value them, so what do images associated with them have to do with it?

The way I see it, first bitmaps are a NFT limited to around 800k supply as of now. Compare that with the supply of bitcoin + the cap of all the metaverse projects out there and you see the potential. It is possible that the floor price for bitmaps will reach a high value. Also a bitmap with the number 999999 will have a higher value then a common number like 718291, so yes I think they can be valued by the rarity of their numbers. The points I listed in the main post are the ones I found that people are using, if you analyze the market data you see there is a tendency for rare numbers to be traded at a higher price.

Objectively, based on utility, they have a value of zero. 

Subjectively, based on how someone feels about them, that's down to the individual.  But still zero for me, personally.

If what you're inscribing doesn't represent something tangible, it's probably worthless in my view.



What the hell kind of math did they teach you in school?  Mathematically speaking, if you list every number in order, without repeats, then every number is equally common.  They will all appear once and once only.  '718291' won't appear more often than '999999'.  It's all just a lame attempt to sell junk to idiots. 

And who are you to decide if it has value or not? the market says it has value, that’s a fact. You talk as if the markets are mathematical (they are not, rather irrational).  People are valuing repeating numbers over normal numbers. In case you didn’t read properly what I said, I repeat: the data I presented in my posts are based on the results of the analysis of the market data. Bitmaps that fall on those categories that I listed are being traded at higher prices than the floor price, some of them at $1000+ each. And not just listed for sale, actual trades.

That's simple! I'll tell you how to value them: their value is zero (0). And will always stay that way. Just remember this and stay away from ordinals and you'll thank me later.    ;D

Really stupid concept, almost dangerous if lots conceived satoshis like that. It'd damage fungibility. Every satoshi is equally rare, and everyone should grasp that if we want bitcoin to be good money.

Mathematically speaking means objectively speaking, which is definitely not the case in here. Completely subjectively speaking, and with lots of logic missing, 1 can be even equal with 2. Ordinals is pretty much a product of the latter.

Someone with a healthy dose of skepticism.  Someone who has seen it enough times before (see below).  Someone who likes to make sure people aren't getting suckered into buying crap so some unscrupulous vultures can get rich exploiting them.



No kidding.  It's the same market that said every shitcoin ICO supposedly had value.  And maybe they did for as long as their '15 minutes of fame' lasted.  And then they took on their true value.  Zero.  This is no different.  It's just some opportunists looking to make a quick buck and leave a bunch of bagholders in their wake (again).  All that's left to be be seen is what the next snake oil pitch will be after this latest fad runs its course.



//EDIT:  And in response to the following reply from franky1, keep in mind he's an illiterate halfwit.  He can't understand a fraction of what anyone writes here.  If he ever accurately comprehends my stance on anything, I'd be genuinely amazed.

funny thing is although doomad is correct this time.. (because ordinals is a scam.. (rare event to see him admit to fact)), but for the last 6 months doomad has been presenting an opinion that these ordinal scams should continue and pretending they do have value... so very very surprised to see him change his tune and finally admit to something

so it appears doomad is now taking only 6 months instead of 6 years to wise up to crap happening to the network.. but knowing doomad, next week he will flip the script and start supporting the scams continuation again. as previously witnessed many times..

lets hope this is a rare moment for doomad to actually stick with facts that these ordinals are just used to scam people and sticks with it.. its just a shame it takes him this long with his flip floppy scripts back and forth inbetween before he finally sees the truth

You realize that 52% of the crypto market are those ICO coins right? Ethereum was ICO too, there is plenty of value there. You have your mind stuck in 2009/2010? Open your mind, even tho ordinals seems to be a stupid concept, finally the market decides what has value or not, you shouldn’t be that arrogant to call everything except bitcoin a zero value thing.

Even tho bitmaps aren’t unique (you can mint the same text over and over again), but the market organized itself to count only the first mints as the valid ones, floor price of bitmaps went up more than 500% in the past weeks. Obviously there is value here even tho it looks technically stupid.

You look like those old men that don’t tolerate young kids with smartphones, just because in their time they used playing with rocks or something. Actually smartphones are the greatest invention of all time, you have access to all the knowledge in the world whenever you want and immediately.

Perhaps in the future when the metaverse becomes a real thing, those who were getting bitmaps at this time will the super rich of the future, same as those who bought bitcoin/ethereum years ago, who knows

You rightly and correctly said it. Everyone here is getting technical around bitmap ordinals and not being humans. Being a human what you do with bitmap ordinals. Well you wish to join the ride and have a piece of it.. I've been looking for unclaimed bitmap ordinals and found out that all metaverse has been claimed. I wish if could have one! Alas!

value and price are not the same thing

many people can price any crap. doesnt mean it has value

when things in concepts of crypto currency dont even use proper proof of ownership/transfer nor get locked into a TXID which then becomes part of the merkle tree of a block.. then its not immutable. its prunable crap so does not even get locked into th security of blockchains.. thus not even secure or a token or any of the native features of what makes cryptocurrency special..
meta data appended to the end of a tx has no purpose or function and does not have the proper transfer/ownership security. so its junk

anyone can put a price on junk.. but its still valueless junk

dont be scammed into buying valueless junk

Yep.  And out of those, I would describe the vast majority of them as "solutions looking for a problem".  No one actually needs those coins for anything, other than gambling with.  They don't have any real purpose.  They don't have any network effects or anything resembling a userbase.  You can't spend them on goods and services because there's no merchant acceptance.  They're just speculative playthings.  If people want to gamble on them, that's their prerogative.  But I wouldn't ascribe value to them.



Yes.  Things that have real-world utility and actually serve a purpose are often considered worthwhile inventions.  But this topic is about speculative playthings with no utility, no purpose.  Ergo, no value.


Incidentally, you did ask us what we think, so you have to accept that not everyone is going to be as excited about this stuff as you seem to be.  I'm not here to bolster anyone's confirmation bias.  I just call it like I see it.

Value doesn't require utility. There are many things that have no real utility but still have value. What is the utility of the Mona Lisa?

It's silly to argue that something has no value simply because it has no value to you.

It seems to me that you don't like ordinals and inscriptions because they don't fit your belief of what Bitcoin should be. Why not just say that instead of making these silly arguments about what should or should not have value.

Personally, I see no use in the Ordinals bull crap, and I don't like them spamming the network and clogging the blocks. But they are a reality and we have to live with them. Hopefully those involved with this hype will realize it's useless and has no future. I am hoping it doesn't. I can't comment on the value of these things as I have never done any research on it nor do I plan to do it.

I am not for banning or somehow forking them out because that goes against the ethos of a network that should be against censorship. Let them ride the Ordinals hype wave and hopefully they will go away voluntarily.

Clear words on a clear topic.
Even though I don't think something needs utility to have value. But then again, it also depends on the definition of utility. The utility of art can be up to debate, but the value of *some* *real* art (whatever that means) cannot be debated imho.

Art can be created out of almost anything. Yes, even ordinals could be used to create art.
But as long as people love to speculate that some sheep may be willing to pay more than themselves for something as un-creative as number like 999999 or whatever, you won't need real art to fuel the market.
So right now, it's nothing more than a ponzi-like hype-train - as long as more people jump on without derailing that thing completely, it's all fun and games. In the end, a few will have profited from the gullibility of many, and many will have lost some substancial amounts of money and own a bunch of digital-void as compensation.

The question posed in the OP was:  (underline emphasis mine)


So I answered with the concepts I'm using and I gave my opinions.  Feel free to use your own criteria if you don't approve of mine.  

I personally think it's silly when some people think certain paintings are "priceless".  Where's the sense in that?  Clearly I'm just not an art guy.  I appreciate aesthetics can carry a price tag, but sometime it just goes too far.

there is price.. there is value.. there is values.. 3 different concepts

values.. is not a number, its a desire, emotion, dream, hope, want, feeling about something. usually based on what a person wants it for. wither to admire, show off or it has utility

value is numeric. usually its based on a underlying cost of production/acquisition plus a FAIR increase temptation to get a sell

price. is a number. more speculative it can be higher and be stupidly high(premium). or near value

mona lisa painting was not instantly valued at $xxmillion.. it took centuries(5 centuries infact) where each new owner added on their estimate of value+fair profit) and slowly over time it grew

people admire it because it truly is one of a kind. yep its not distributed over everyones node. the creator is dead so wont be making any other similar pieces of art.. yep most art only becomes valuable once an artist dies and will not create anything else again... unlike these ordinals junk where the same idiots bloat the blockchain with lots of similar things thinking they are worth a van-gogh/de-vinci/micheal-angelo
sorry but thats not how real art works nor economics

as for the underlying cost of creating a ordinals. its 1sat+txfee+few minutes of labour
but knowing they have no transfer security/ownership proof.. they have no value in selling.. becasue the recipient does not end up owning the piece of junk

if however the ordinal crew finally learned bitcoin to learn how transactions work to learn how to embed things properly within the bitcoin security of txid and merkle trees and blockhashes.. and also knew how to transfer data from one key to another within the outputs. then and only then would there be a real unscammed method of transfer thus a real market for it. which would take time to establish value by swapping hands multiple times to increase value with head hand

In 1,000,000 numbers there are 45 repeating numbers, like 444, 111, 9999, 999999.

Same like numbers ending with 0 like 1000, 200000, 400000, they are also 45.

The direction the market is taking is clearly overvaluing these kind of rare numbers.

Now why people are perceiving these numbers as rare numbers that’s another story, perhaps because of the laziness of how the human brain works? It takes less brain processing power to read a number like 999999 than a number like 181735.

I don’t see this as art to be honest but something else: there are countries that have markets for car number plates, some numbers go to insane prices, and the same rules that apply in that market seem to apply on the bitmap market as well. Is that art? I don’t think so, people just want to be unique or show off something, not all collectables are art, uniqueness is not art. But uniqueness has a price.

A number like 999999 is unique/rare in human terms, not in mathematical terms. This market is human.

Reference: https://www.firstpost.com/explainers/most-noble-numbers-why-the-car-number-plate-p7-became-the-worlds-most-expensive-12437422.html#

Bro you are 100% correct about your vision as well as utility! Just tell me from which website one should buy bitmap ordinals??

And so is 999998, and 999997, and 10, and e, and pi, and square root of 2; they are all unique and either rare or common, depending on how you look at them. 

And that's exactly why we can enforce our view upon others. Just as Ordinal fans do it in the opposite direction. I don't understand why you make it sound as if we are the bad guys who want to enforce the view that numbers are common, and not the others who want to enforce that numbers are rare.

Not saying who doesn’t like ordinals are the bad guys at all, everybody is entitled to their view.

I just think it’s a bit naive to deny the fact that bitmaps/ordinals have value. To be honest they are the most stupid thing I have seen in the crypto world, the second most stupid thing are NFTs all together, but ordinals are on another level of stupidity. However I accept the fact that the market gives value to this junk and on top of that I want to understand how/why the market is valuing this.

Again, everything what I posted here was based on the market data analysis, so I’m not really imposing anything, it’s just how the market is behaving. It’s as stupid as the car number plates market, but hey if there is a slight chance that this is gonna be big in the future and you have the chance to participate in the early stages, why not right?

Only a fool would let this pass when there is a chance that this can become big and you can still get them for a price below $50. Decentraland land plots for example are trading with a floor price around $1000.

I'm not denying the fact that there's a market around it. I'm just arguing they're of zero value. Sure, they have a price, but I just cannot recognize the slightest value, and I will attempt to impose this reasoning to anyone who's found to be confused until someone convinces me otherwise. 

I cannot buy something that I don't buy in the first place.  :P

bulista is at the mid stage of admitting they are stupid. give him another week and he will admit to the zero value.. much faster then other people that took 6 months to admit to the scam.. bulista is half way there
having a price does not mean something has value
handing someone funds does not mean you then own something

Actually I’m not half away anywhere, I always had my opinion formulated about this since the beginning. That doesn’t stop me from wanting to learn about the market and profit from it.

They are obviously not a scam, they are a legit form of technical stupidity that perhaps is so stupid that makes it a genius ideia. All of this perhaps because of the lack of innovation in the crypto world for a long time.

And by the way, having a price and actually be actively exchanged DOES MEAN it has value. I see lots of people here saying that “having price does not mean it has value” like they are Gandalf trying to be a wizard or something. Just no, anything that has a price and is actively traded HAS VALUE. Full stop.

Oxford dictionary for the word value: “1) how much something is worth in money or other goods for which it can be exchanged”, learn your language folks.

Also relevant, meaning of the word stupid: “1) behaviour that shows a lack of thought or good judgement“, exactly how ordinals were invented

something is WORTH..
which if CAN be exchanged.. not what it WILL be exchanged for.
(the parts you didnt dig too deep into)

learn other words like value vs premium.
cheap vs expensive
underpriced vs over priced.

a price is not simply its value

also i just went for a crap and put it in a bag. i price it at $/£5000 .. go on buy it. it has value in your mind
[gives you a few seconds to think]
see how your mind is now thinking my crap is not worth $/£5k.. and how i have over priced it

price is not value.. price can also be premium

lets take bitcoin..
for years i have never seen bitcoins "value" as the price. i see bitcoins value as an underlying number below market.. much like the value of retail products are not the sell price.
with bitcoin you have to look at the lowest acquisition cost on the planet of a period.. for instance right now its about $20k(efficient mining) 2022 was $15k 2021 was $10k even when the market was SPECULATING at a higher premium PRICE

when you look at the underlying basic efficient cost of making these junk memes. they are pennies, not thousands of dollars to dump the junk onto the blockchain...
then you have to take into account that they have no real ownership transfer claim system thats cryptographically proven.. (its just dead weight) and so by not even transferring technically to new owners, and only theoretically via junk theory... it has no value to new people.. just a cost to the creator and his dumb price.. both are not value.

it has a creation COST of pennies and a premium scam PRICE of $stupid.. but does not have VALUE

It seems you didn’t dig too much yourself, first you only highlight the part that says WORTH totally ignoring the rest of the sentence, when actually the most important part are the last words: FOR WHICH IT CAN BE EXCHANGED

Your crap can’t be exchanged for 5k, therefore your price is incorrect, it doesn’t have value AT THAT PRICE. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value at all, there are plenty of scientific research facilities that would happily buy your crap for few bucks, so it actually it has some value.

When it comes to bitmaps they are actively exchanged, so there is no question that they have value. Full Stop.

i can send you my crap[postal system]. but the junk memes of ordinals are not even set as part of an output of a tx, nor form part of the txid and thus merkle tree of a block header. thus have no security of bitcoins transfer process. thus unlike me posting a bag of crap to you the ordinal junk just sits as junk data appended to the creators metadata 'weight' of his tx.

If it can be exchanged for money it has value. Ordinals can be actively exchanged for money therefore they have value. Period. Full Stop. Your theory is debunked. Finito. EOF.

victims can hand money to a scammer is not the same as junk meta data appended outside a txdata (outside being the ''witness" segregation) thuss not inside the txdata part, thus not of an output(destination)

when you learn that the ordinal THEORY is called a THEORY instead of proven fact then you realise you failed to debunk

the data is not part of an output of a destined owner (thus the theory is broke and debunked)

learn how bitcoin works.. like i said your half way through your adventure of learning why these ordinals junk is junk

I had to look up what this bitmap thing is....so what's the purpose of this?? You just pretend to own bitcoin blocks by making an ordinal out of a past block's data or something? What exactly is the value or use of this?

Sure seems like just another useless ordinals thing right? Kinda sad these Web3 useless ideas for cryptocurrency are spreading to Bitcoin this year. Just distracts from Bitcoin's revolutionary value to humanity by making people think it's just all about stupid useless stuff like this. I haven't yet heard about an actual valuable useful thing that ordinals is being used for yet. It's all just been trying to create fake scarcity for useless things so far.

My hunch is that Ordinals will share the same fate with other NFT projects. They will slowly die. The values assigned to these Ordinals are arbitrary. They don't have any basis at all except the subjective assessment and appraisal of the creator or the seller. Lucky for them if there is somebody else who is as eccentric as them and who is willing to spend a considerable amount for them. But if the buying is for the sake of speculation, disappointment will certainly be waiting for them in the end.

That about sums it up.  People are trying to capitalise on the notion that someone could own something "one-of-a-kind" and then create hype for it.  It's all a bit tawdry.

It's ironic that people make the same argument against Bitcoin.

Would "not potentially useful" instead of "useless" make this less ironic?

What are your sources? I refuse to believe 52% of crypto users are retarded.  ;D

This is some 100% BS ordinals shilling. Are you being paid to shill? Or did you invest and now hoping to sell the monkey pics with profit? Poor attempt.

Source: https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/

If you scroll to the right on the top on coinmarketcap.com you see Dominance: BTC: 48.5% ETH: 18.8%

Yes I can see that, that's market dominance. What does it have to do with your quote (I marked above in bold) regarding ICO coins occupying 52% of the entire crypto market? Perhaps you can just admit you were lying and trying to make things up to shill your useless ordinals crap?  8)

I don't know I do like ART but sell a bunch of anything to sell into the marketplace just I don't think was right, and I dont know what the usecase of bitmap on ordinal with total supply of 800K and it basically just a number and if you take a look the site says. but correct me if am wrong guys im also pretty new in this Oridinal things

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2023/07/24/Cncqd.png (https://www.talkimg.com/image/Cncqd)

If btc has 48% dominance all other coins have 52%. Are you that retarded?

ICO has a specific definition.  One could try to argue that all altcoins are ICOs, but I don't think that's accurate.  ICOs are effectively coins launched as commercial ventures.  Any altcoin with a premine, for example, is almost certainly an ICO.

Early coins such as Litecoin, Peercoin and Namecoin generally aren't considered ICOs.  It was more about the technology and the potential applications back then.  Before everything became a tool for speculators.

You're probably new to crypto, my little retarded friend, so I'll forgive you not knowing the terms. These are called shitcoins over here. And I'll re-phrase my question to you: what do shitcoins have to do with your stupid spammy monkey pics?  ;D

Listen d*mbass, I’m in crypto longer than you for sure and you are nothing.

Perhaps the only one spamming here is you with the shi*tty domain in your username and your spammy referral ads.

If you have nothing of value to add to the discussion just shut your mouth and go spam your links somewhere else. You are nothing more than a LOW IQ D*MBASS

That's what I was talking about: people with low IQ quickly run out of arguments and start insulting others for no reason. By doing this you're disgracing yourself and making bad publicity for your shit tokens. Would you buy anything from an aggressive salesperson?  ;D

What makes you think you're longer in crypto than me? I can see a noob account shilling some shitty useless spam monkey pics. Perhaps you can tell us your crypto story? When did you buy your first crypto? What coins are in your portfolio? Although, you're partly right: you're longer in crypto than me. I don't do crypto. I'm a Bitcoin maxi and only thing I can say is crypto doesn't exist: there's Bitcoin and there are shitcoins.

Btw, you haven't replied: what do shitcoins have to do with your stupid spammy monkey pics?

coinmarketcap stats are USELESS

i can create a shitcoin tomorrow with 1trillion coins.. sell just 0.01 coin for $1 and yep i can create a coinmarket cap valuation of $100 trillion. making a shit coin 99% of all crypto markets and bitcoin under 1%

yep its cheap to mess with coinmarket cap stats.. they are meaningless

what you should be looking at is what are the majority of the big services accepting and the volume of their trades. (though that can be manipulated too, its better than the measure you spout)

You still talking? Ain’t reading your crap you are clearly a spammer just posting here to spam links. You should be ashamed of yourself and anything you post has literally 0 value because your only intention to post is to SPAM. You are nothing more than a low iq d*mbass spammer and you are nothing.

True is not perfect but they just count the ones that are actively trading, not just any coin you create and make a swap of $1 on uniswap, so it’s not entirely that bad.

The reference to the 52% was just a reply to doomad (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5459688.msg62573050#msg62573050) when he was implying that ICO coins had zero value, I just replied that 52% of the market are those ICO coins and they have value, most of them in that 52% bucket were ICOs. I’m not supporting those ICO coins, just stating a fact. Too much discussion about this 52% when there is nothing to discuss about it really, would be much more productive of the discussion continues about bitmaps

Muahaha! You call me a spammer? Really? A person who creates spam topics to shill your spammy monkey pics and spam the network!  ;D This is hilarious! I'll have to copypaste my questions again (for the 3rd time! you seem to have some issues with comprehension?):

No matter how you say it, and whatever argument you present to them, it will be of no use. They will continue to think that Ordinal is something and people should believe in what they are doing. The only way to stop them is to get them off the Bitcoin network, but apparently that would make the Bitcoin system "one-sided" and apparently the Bitcoin developers didn't do that. Hopefully they will come to their senses soon, because what they are doing right now defending the Ordinal is pointless.

For any of you interested, this website is very good and provides many metrics:

https://bitmap.community/explorer