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Ok, good day fellas, someone brought up an idea for storing his Electrum recovery seed to my notice and I feel it's not entirely still safe and I will like to share here for some feedbacks before I tell him my final answer about the idea.

If you get your recovery seed from any wallet, either those with 12 seed words or 24, and you decide to write down 10 out of 12 or 20 out of 24 and keep the other two words separately somewhere else, how stupid or cool is this? He claimed he will keep the two words in a safe location different from the other words and also store the two words off head.

Give your answers please, stupid? Cool? Not great? No need?

Instead of try to do what can make you to lose your seed phrase, why do you not use passphrase with the seed phrase? You can read about passphrase and it gives your coin additional security.

But know that if you forget the passphrase, you will lose your coins.

Backup the seed phrase and passphrase in different locations. You can have like two or three backup of each. You can do the backup on paper or steel or stainless steel sheets.

Not a great idea I would say. First which words will he take out. Should he decide to take the last two or the first two out, then when the other words are found then the probability of getting the remaining two will be easier. Should he decide to take words from within those seeds then there is a probability also that he would miss up those words when trying to put them together. And should he leave a clue then an hacker could also use that clue.

The idea of also storing seeds off head has been advised against before because of probably future health challenges like brain damage

Stupid idea.

Because if he lost two words of his seed, it the rest 10 or 22 words will be useless. He will have to use service to brute force it and if brute force does not work, he loses his bitcoin. Spliting it does not make it more secured but worse. What will happen if one of two words are from checksum?

Why is Seed Splitting a Bad Idea? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5nSibpfHYE)
How to back up a seed phrase? (https://blog.lopp.net/how-to-back-up-a-seed-phrase/)

Sounds reasonable, but if he only separates 2 or 4 words from other words at the end or at the beginning, I think it makes sense. But you don't need to keep it in a safe place, because if it's only 2 or 4 words, I think it's easy to memorize.
But that's not good advice because we don't know in the long run, because if you miss or forget even one word phrase, then the coin is gone.
and writing it down on water and heat resistant paper and storing it safely and against whatever it is is a very good option, like a small safe or a glass bottle that only you know about and has hidden somewhere.

Yes it can be a key security solution. But are you sure you won't forget those 2 separate words? Maybe you can also save 12 of the 24 words in a different place. I think whatever you do will be good for you as long as no one finds out about your plans.

So it's better if you do what you plan to do without sharing it here, so what you keep secret will be completely safe. But for stronger security, maybe you can consider using a multisign wallet. You can store keys in separate places and can share keys (10 of 12 words/ 20 of 24 words). Especially if you plan to hold bitcoins for a long time, multisign is the best. It can be a family asset and you can give keys to each family member to make it more secure

What you are trying to create is a Brainwallet; read here - https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Brainwallet

It has its problems and hence is not recommended. Now I am not the person saying this, I came across this concept long back and while searching on the net found out about it and the talk given by Ryan Castellucci at DEF Con 23 which was like 7years back when I first started delving into cryptocurrency.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foil0hzl4Pg

The bitcointalk thread that came out as the aftermath of this discussion is here - BrainWallet Defcon Attack Discussion, Advice, Q&A, Brainflayer Info, etc. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1148611.0)

Please do give the video a watch and proper listening, advice your friend to listen to it too.

I think it's a good way to save a phrase, but only if the person is sure enough that the remaining phrase won't go off his head. Those 10, or 20 written-down phrases on a piece of paper will be kept safe out of the reach of others, and even if there is any chance that someone will come into contact with those phrases, they won't be able to access the wallet because of the other missing words.
 
I can remember a guy back then whose wallet had a private key, and among the 64 characters, the guy had four of them removed from different places, not just at the end or beginning of the wallet. This makes everything very complicated; he removed those words and stored them in his memory, and the rest of the key is stored in his email, where he can access it wherever he is. This makes the wallet security strong to me, because in such situations, even if one is given those four missing characters without knowing where they properly belong, you won't be able to access that particular wallet.

I have had this experience before. One time I tried to take the complex approach to safe guard my seed phrase in a bid to make it harder for someone else to gain access to it. Long story short, I ended up losing it myself. Counter-intuitive processes are smart but not always the best idea. Also, it's not completely ruled out. If he feels it's the best way to safeguard his assets, then it's all good.

I read about Brainwallets in ethereum book by the same author who wrote the bitcoin book and it's not a recommended approach when it comes to creating wallet and safeguarding the key/mnemonic phrase.

There are many ways to store seed phrases, and each individual has their own method.  we shouldn't judge someone else's method as bad just because it doesn't work for us.  It might not work or give you security, but for that guy, it's for the best for him. in my opinion, store your seed phrase your way, you don't have to imitate someone, whatever the method, as long as you feel safe with it.

I don't know for me in my case, despite the easiest password that I've made if I haven't use that words or the account I always tend to forget it. Worse thing is I also forgot where did I put my emergency recovery if it's on my note, my messages or etc. In short, I think it's not a great idea to separate something important especially if those words are needed together. Well we all have different capabilities to remember something or in storing so it's depends on the person with his/her prefer method to do since it their assets at stake. As long as you think you are secured with the thought you're having. Just have an alternative recovery in case.

This is not that bad when he has strong memory because he will gonna keep that seed phrases for years and when he doesn't review everything every 2 months in minimum, then I absolutely believe that he will gonna forget everything. The best thing to do is whenever you want to hide it in multiple places by dividing the total words, you need to appoint a schedule where you will gonna review everything or place them in different places in order to secure it. Some people don't really need to do this because they memorized their seeds but others need to do it because they don't have strong memories to remember.

Or just make your own encryption, I can share one which I made myself and I no longer use now but is good enough.

1. Reverse the words
2. Replace 1st word (A) with second last word (Y) and do it for every character in your words
3. Replace some characters with integers (1, 9)

Now to decrypt this, just need to follow from Step 3 to 1.

You can learn any programming language and code this yourself. Python will be the recommendation.

it is good idea but risky one, may the 10 words written on the paper get destroyed or get lost?

here's my idea very similar to this.

you can write 10 words on you steal or metal door or steel sheets and you need to store that remaining 2 words in very secret place or very securely. or repeat those 2 words every morning. so those words get stuck in your head

If you write out the whole recovery phrase and decided to take only two or four out and safekeep them, my question now is that if you could actually finds a means to keep the two or four seeds phrase secured why can't you do same for the remaining 10 or 20 completion of the recovery phrase, you're just saying that if you have a password, you can leave part of it exposed to people and keep the remaining to yourself, find a means to safekeep all the seeds and then sleep while the fire is on the mountain with part of your seeds exposed out.


Best advice is for him to calm down and look for more secured ways to keep his keys altogether and avoid third party influence or exposure, he should not trust his brain memory for those two words over a long time, we can forget things over time base on research and findings except if written down on something to serve as remembrance.

I don't that that there is any need for doing something like that because it's always preferable to store your whole seed words in a single text file and save that file on multiple storage devices, and then disconnect all those storages devices from internet. With that simple step our seed phrase and our private key gets the top level of security because no one else can access those other than we ourselves.

I must say that his idea isn't great at all because why take a lot of burden if you can follow the easy path which has already been tested and is currently the most secure and trusted method to keep ones private keys or seeds words without any worries. I think it's always safe to go with the tested method which I have already explained because that method can't be hacked with current GPU's or any other hacking methods.

The most problematic thing that can happen with such idea is brute-force attacks because if someone knows 10 words out of 12 words or 20 words out of 24 words then that person can easily brute-force that wallet and gain access to it. Brute-forcing of 2 words isn't hard these days thanks to powerful GPU's, and even 4 words isn't that much trouble causing for someone who has cluster of those powerful GPU's.

Well, if you ask me, it seems like this guy's trying to split up his lottery ticket numbers! Seriously though, the idea is creative - gotta give him that. But, isn't it also like begging for trouble? The recovery seed is the master key to your wallet. Lose a word, and you might as well have thrown your bitcoins to the wind.

Consider this, the memory can play tricks on you. One day, you might remember those two words, the next day, poof! They're gone. And what if the place he hid those words got compromised? Or worse, he forgets where he stashed them? This plan, while intriguing, is a risky gamble.

He should just take the traditional path - write all the words down and store them securely. There's no need to be a daredevil in matters of security!

Don't try to make your own system when there already are working mechanisms of storing seed words.
The most basic one includes multiple copies of all seed words in multiple geographical locations. If you want more security, set up a passphrase and store it separately from your seed. Obviously, you should have several backups of both. Finally, you can create a multisig setup made up of different devices that hold the keys. Preferably, an airgapped computer, a paper wallet, and an online machine or mobile wallet.     

I don't like the idea of splitting your seed phrase and hiding 10 words in one place and the other 2 words in another place. Instead, you could find a safe place and hide your full seed phrase there. To be honest, using these tricks could make it even riskier and it's unnecessary to do so.

I suggest simply writing it down on a piece of paper and hiding it in a place that no one has access to. Probably you could just make 2 copy of the papers and do the same by hiding in in a safe place imho.

I believe that when it comes to storing coins, people should not merely rely on public opinion, but also on what they know about themselves. I know that my memory is average, but not reliable enough that I'd trust it to not forget a passphrase. I know that I never take my laptop outside my flat, and that a chance of my particular flat being robbed is pretty small. I also know that I'm way more likely to forget where I put that second piece of paper with the two remaining words than be compromised because of downloading malware or something like that. So based on that, I wouldn't separate the passphrase storage into two places, but that doesn't mean it's the right decision for everyone.

Haha distributing the keyphrase, why is he going to gamble with the 10 to 12 ratio or 20 to 24 ratio he should prefer 50-50 for better security if he really thinks that by this strategy he or she can store his/her recovery, (So-called Safe). The idea seems to be inspired by the old treasure map stories where the map is divided into 2 or more parts for make sure the security of the treasure.

I will Strongly disagree with the idea because rather than securing two parts on different placements I will prefer the more efficient security of the single paper. Well, the idea is not bad but there are a few things that make me think about having a single sheet to be secured.

That is not too bad, but for him to remember the splited ones is the major issue. But if he can remember them then it is not a bad idea. because I noticed that he is trying to make sure that when he mistakenly lost the one he has written down and someone found it and want to use the seed phrase to login to the wallet and since two words are missing, he could not do that. Written the two words down and still memorizing them in your brain is a good arrangement of storing seed phrase.

I like that idea, but it carries a risk of loosing either of them. I have tried many ways to store my seed before and I have found one which still works best for me.
What I use is many random words in a piece of paper. I randomly put my seed in them and list the numbers where they are. Then I take that number individually, randomised it and then turn them into morse code. After that I have painted that morse code on my wall, piece of paper and wood to keep it safe. To a normal person, it will be just dot's and lines. But to me, I know what it is. Also, this will ensure the safety that you can individually back up that word list as well as the morse code to 2 different online platforms. Just make sure to make the word list so big that no one will be able to figure it out. And keeping them in individual platforms as well as hard copy will ensure that you will never lose either of them.

I know making online backup is quite risky. But big word list is quite hard to crack. Imagine putting 500/1000 words in a list. Good luck to the person trying to crack it. Or you can just back up the word list and keep the morse code to yourself. Less to worry about.

I am doing this for a long time and haven't faced any issue. But if you ever want to try it. Do some research on your own.

For aging people, this isn't going to work. Memories of the people that are in that bracket are weak. Well, even I, I'm not yet an elderly yet I've got problems in remembering things. If it's going to work for him, he knows what he's risking and there's no blaming with this way of keeping your two/four recovery seeds. Those that are still young and has a sharp mind and brain, maybe it will work if they do something like this. But IMO, I'll never suggest it.

Or maybe you can used or implement:-> https://iancoleman.io/shamir/

Of course, it might not be perfect as it could have it's flaw. There is also a good discussion here, Ian Coleman BIP39 / Derive P2SH addresses from Electrum generated Seed (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5253904.0).

I wouldn't say it's stupid but it just doesn't seem like it's going to work for me. The risk is too great especially with the loss of one of the two, I think in this case I still like to use the usual way by splicing as a whole without any separation.
I don't want to inconvenience myself in this case so I prefer the conventional way that I have always done.
Indeed, such a thing is still possible to do for some people on the pretext of being more secure from theft, but on the other hand, in my opinion it is quite complicated because the conditions become several things can happen such as losing one of the 2 seeds that you separate it actually makes the steps you take to secure it actually make you lose it.

Someone must have done all these already. It would be stupid to do it here in the forum though.

Hope no one figures out where he stores it. Because if you have same username on other accounts, you will be traced and someone might just get your coins.
This idea could get people to hunt seed on the internet, its gonna be play time for those internet detectives. Those guys are really good at it, they will be able to find your accounts and find the other seed words.

It sounds cool to keep it away from strangers but is not the best for the owner of the seed phrase,  it is very risky , any thing can happen which it can be difficult to get access to any of the books. We are humans that sometimes memories can be lose to remember where one of the books was kept. I think recording the total number of the phrase in the same place is safe for future , some people even find it difficult to take care of their seed phrase in a place where it is stored safe, talk about when it is being split in different places. Putting them together to store in a safe place is even the best and safest way to store seed phrase.

Giving almost 80% of those private seed phrase then having that someone do aware about that will really be completely risky. Somewhat its really hard to bruteforce or trying out to find that missing 2 words but to know that having that possibility wont really be giving out that kind of confidence on your wallet total security.If you are that someone who do really give out importance about your wallet security then you should really be the only one who would really be having that awareness or do know about those keys or else you would really be putting your funds at great risks.
Its not something that should really be given out something even if you are both siblings or family members or best friends but still when it comes or in talks about money then its a different story.
Store it up on somewhere that it is really that far away on others attention or would really be able to know because once it would be known then say goodbye with your funds.

Something so simple and yet, one of the most difficult to find a perfect way of keeping it. There is no single perfect way, all means that ensures safety from others works.
Living out just 2 of them words seems great and however, having them saved in 2 different locations. You just try not to loose them but, these words aren’t yours, make one mistake and it’s all gone.
What I would say is; what ever works is what the owner of the wallet ought to be doing or use as an approach towards securing his or her wallet.
There is no single smart means to saving your seed phrase or private key, you use whatever would be more difficult for others but easy for you.
Always remember that being too security conscious could as well endanger you as many at times, you end up not just securing the wallet from others but securing it from yourself as well.

Not too bad, but remembering the splitted location is really a big issue. Keeping two words memorized is really good and makes it more secure. However we don't know what happens the next minute, and for that reason we're supposed to keep one of our close person informed about the recovery phrase. In such scenario how can that be done. The plan to keep words splitted is good, but there needs to be few backups and locations were entire phrase is kept for the future.

I don't understand what would be the purpose of this? If someone were to lose a seed phrase missing only the last two words, how hard is it to brute force with today's hardware? On the other hand, if you lose or forget those two words, you've created a complicated situation for yourself. For me, a better solution is to use a passphrase so that you have better security. This way, instead of memorizing two random words from a seed phrase, you have to memorize an arbitrary phrase that can be something easy to remember but known only to you. For example, the first sentence from your favorite book, or something like that.

Every idea that have an advantage will also have disadvantage. There's huge risk in split sees phrase not talk about keeping the seed phrase off head which is totally naive of not thinking of the possibility of having dissociative amnesia which could lead to forgetting some important things.
I will suggest he get metal steal that's tested for heat, corrosion, and acid test from Jameson Lopp (https://jlopp.github.io/metal-bitcoin-storage-reviews/), get a safety deposit box, and keep it there.

you home boy just made it more complicated, because the problem here is that in the end, if the owner of the seed phrase lost or forget either part the seedphrase, they still will most likely lose access to the coins that is in the wallet. for me, the best way to save a seed phrase is to print it, make copies of it, properly store it and secure it.

I won't personally do this, but, yeah, it's probably safer this way. If somebody found the 10 of the 12 or 20 of the 24 seed words, they still can't have access to your funds. If somebody found the 2 of 10 or 4 of 24, they also can't lay their hands on your money. But this also poses certain risks. What if you can't find all of them? What if you forget the sequence of those words?

But I guess it's pretty much manageable this way rather than make a puzzle out of your backup. I also think having more than 2 copies of each is better.

This idea only makes storing phrases more complicated and difficult for ourselves and no one else. Instead of us just looking for a safe place to store our phrases, we now need to find 2 places to store them.

The way that I am using is to write my phrase on paper, but I will shuffle the position of the words. In case if they are exposed, thieves can't access my property either. Of course, there is still a risk if I forget the original position of the words, but another thing is that I always share it with my loved ones. So if I forget it, my relatives will remember it for me.

Writing the seed phrase down in one place is a good idea and it will help you in the future when you misplace your phone or system that contain your seeds phrase, and you will be easily go back to those seeds phrase you write down to restore your money back.  I don't think, I will advise anyone to divide their seeds phrase and write them in a separate places, which is not a good idea because it will be easy for such person to regret when he or she can't remember where the 2 seed phrase are in the house. Many people do all those things by writing the seed phrase for different places for past experiences purpose, because if your wife or children know Bitcoin and wallet very well, very easy for them to know seeds phrase of any wallets, and it will be easy for them to know how much their father has in his wallet.

Sounds safe but a complex one. Seed phrases will need to be entered in proper order, I hope he'll also remember from those 2 other words stored in his brain what comes next. It's not entirely stupid if we're talking about taking another extra layer of security as long as he will not going to forget that couple of phrases stored in his brain otherwise his btc will blend out of the circulation since it will be gone foreva.
My recommendation is that, he should keep all those phrases in one piece and store it in a all-calamities proof container, of course with a safety lock combination as well, and that combination should what is stored in his brain. Because remembering a combination of numbers you have created is easier than remembering a couple of words generated by a bot.

It's a good security method as long as you always remember the complexity. But there is no need to do this if you have adhered to the standard method of protecting and keeping your wallet safe. This technique could breed carelessness because you know that the seed phrase is complex. I am also concerned with transferring my coins to my next of kin in case of an emergency. Sickness and death are unpredictable, hence there is a need to make your wallet less complex so that your dependents can have access to them without much restriction. I am just considering how my next of kin will be able to have access to my wallet with all these complexities of removing words because it took long lectures for them to even understand the simple wallet security tips. A little confusion can make the coin to be lost forever.

Well, another good way is to add your own custom word in the seed phrase and then you do not have to remember or keeping safe the few words in other places. Because the words that you will write additionally to the seed phrase will always be remembered by you like your name, school name, anything but it should not be publicly attached to your personal life.

Because it will be attached then the hacker will definitely find it and will add those information in his datasets of brute force decryption method. But still, your idea is also good, but why only saving only few words, like if you are going to make some efforts to save few words then how much it will further cost us or takes more efforts to store more words. Let's say why not the full seed phrase.

Because what if you would not be able to find those missing words then what will happen. So the best practice is to keep all the seed phrase in different place like in anther device not connected to internet or write it down on any paper.

It's absolutely not wrong but what if you forget where you kept them?  Or if the place where you keep the two words is not safe and they are lost?  Why don't you generate a seed from 24 instead and use the extra word so that they become 25?  You can create this new word and therefore it will be easier to remember. Furthermore, if they were to reach your 24 words, they would find an empty wallet and it would not attract attention as the real wallet can only be reached if it is unlocked with the password of your word.

So if he lost those saved words say even if 4 words are lost do you know how hard or say impossible to brute force the remaining one to get access to wallet? This is totally dumb idea and keeping them off mind is totally stupid idea so it's not at all suggested to do.The other option is to write them down and Store them on 2-3 places so if one get damaged others are safe but complete list is necessary.

It's better to safe the whole recovery seed in a secured location, why is he trying to split the seed words? What happened if he lost the two words? If he have the rest it still won't work, he is simply trying to make things more complicated for himself.

Tell him to find a nail and a silver plate of any kind and carve the whole recovery seeds on the silver plate and keep the plate in a safe location or a mechanical safe.

As we grow older there are things that becomes more important in our lives, if you go away for a while you can easily forget the words, or maybe you have an accident that affects your brain for a while? This is why it's bad storing anything in the brain.

That's a dangerous idea. I thi nk it's just better to keep 2 copies of your seed phrase. If you divide it and keep it in different places more chances that you'll lose some part of it. And counting on your memory is pointless, that's for sure.

This is the best solution for upmost security.
- Destroy seed phrase upon wallet creation
- Store the backup file somewhere safe and secure it with an extremely secure passphrase that you will either remember or be able to know from very few hints
- Viola. Security.

The reason for doing this over doing the idea suggested in the OP is that if someone else finds those 10 words, it mightn't be as difficult to bruteforce the other 2 words than one would think. As Charles said too, those words are far from recoverable in comparison to a file secured by a complex passphrase which you can remember via hints.

Shamir secret sharing, passphrase, split seed phrase, multi sig etc are similar with each other where you're need two or more requirements to access your wallet. Nothing new about this technique to safe your seed phrase. I think there's no problem if you want to use this way to save your seed phrase, it's better than create song or poem with your seed phrase or convert to HEX code.

Just two words, to brute force it would be very easy. But the idea to split seed phrase into different parts is not recommended at all when there are better options like to use passphrase instead, or the use of 2FA wallet, or multisig wallet which are enough to protect your coins if done correctly.

The idea is not also good. I can not see the post that also discourage the use of shamir secret sharing, but not recommended by established members on this forum that are developers. Convert words to characters is not also advisable as bitcoin developers moved from the use of characters (private keys) for backup and recovery to seed phrase. Using passphrase is easy and enough if strong passphrase is used.

It's a stupid way to store seed words, because the possibility for you to miss 2 more words is quite high, for some reason. The best way to store it is to encrypt it either on Box.com or a device that doesn't have internet access. For me personally, I store seed words on a PC that I don't use anymore and usually I don't keep Bitcoins in one wallet for a long time, I will make transfers over a period of time and so far I haven't had any problems with that.

Well, I do not think this is a stupid idea. If he thinks it will give him sense of more security, than we are not the ones to judge for making him feel more safer. It is his Bitcoins so he can do what he feels.

I did do something like this in the past for my recovery seed. But the last word is so easy for me to remember so I did not write it down. Just so if someone some way stole my seed they would not know the last word. But I am still thinking this is not needed.

Sometimes the most simple things are the most difficult things and the issue of saving private keys is a problem once any part of do keys get missing, it will be very difficult for you to have access to that wallet again, and saving it online is not the best option, I don't even like the idea of saving it in your head the best thing to do is just find a secure way to store it, and as you said, it's best to store it in multiple locations. You can also store it in a bank this will help lessen your fear of losing your price key because once it's gone, it's gone. This is something that everyone should keep in mind. not your keys, not your coin

Actually there's nothing wrong with the idea of making yourself secured with your seed phrase the thing right here is once you lost another piece of the remaining seed this could you a lot of trouble, IMHO its ideal if you put the same paper of the address and make a copy of it so you don't need to worry if you lost the other one. This could be less hassle in the future that you need to seek your seed. Or else encrypt your seed and seek for decryption so this could another layer of security.

It is nice you have come up with such an idea but the safety of your key phrase matters a lot when it comes to finance. Storing your key phrase in different places makes some good sense because if you should misplace or forget one, the others are still available for you to access but the idea of writing the last two phrase and storing it somewhere separate from the rest of the others is what you will have to be very careful of not to misplace it and also you should note that as humans there are lots of thoughts going on in the head and if your friend should think of doing such without putting it down somewhere, I am afraid he just might one day call you to see if you can be able to help him out which i believe would be very difficult to do.

However if you can go with acronym to best save your key phrase which no one could understand only you, then you can keep it openly where you can be seeing it everyday unbeknownst to  anyone who could know what it means. This can be of help rather than writing them half and separating them everywhere which you are not sure if you could get hold of them if something happens that needs you to urgently get them close to you.

I think it is a dumb idea. I've actually thought about this before, and I can tell you that it has its own disadvantage. If the person chooses to separate the seed phrase into 3 parts, it means that he has to mark each of them with a number to be able to know which one comes first before the other, if not he has to rely on try and error method when entering the seed phrase. Also, the person might forget the last two memorized words or suffered from amnesia due to head injury, and lost access to his funds if brute force is not successful.

It's not a good idea by all means. First, because it is not possible to guarantee the validity of our memory in remembering the two (or more) words that will be separated from the rest of the seed words or their arrangement, then this allows the display of the rest of the words, that is, there is no need to hide them. Secondly, because there are better solutions available so that more layers of protection can be added.

I prefer saying that it's not a good idea to practice with sensitive data. However, i think it's a genius idea from a young boy who tries to find a way on how to manage his secret data. Note that a boy at an early age would not think about all the risks.

Even we do say that saving or remembering up just 2 words would be simple if you do have plans on having that mind saving or would really be just memorizing those words but same as you said that there's always a chance or moment that you would really be able to forget those words and on the time that it would happen then say goodbye to that wallet and the funds inside of it. This is more risky than on writing those words on a piece of paper and also its never been that good or ideal on letting someone who do able to know those phrases despite on being that incomplete but still it wont really be giving out the confidence that your coins are really that totally safe on being that having those unauthorized access which would be result into lost coins.Its not something that needs to be shared up and its not something that needs to be having that
other peoples awareness no matter how close you are whether a family member or close friend on which it is something that to be personal if you dont like on having on losing
those coins specially if we are talking huge money on here or amount.

I remember someone said that he's got his recovery phrases memorized on his mind and I don't know if that's true and his argument with that is that no one will ever steal it on his mind.

But you all know the catch and the topic is just the same for having 2-4 words or seeds that's missing from writing it down.

It's not a good idea but this time, you do you. Whatever is working to you, do it as you're the one who's responsible for everything you do.

It's quite a funny idea, either the friend is having trust issues with persons he lives with, doesn't intend to make withdrawal from the account until a said time he knows, just wants to try it out to see what happens.

If the friend is confident enough he should go ahead, but I doubt he would use the wallet for long, because anything can happen.

i won't trust my memory either. we are just humans and we can't assure 100% that we won't forget all the details that we want to remember. even if we say only 2 words are missing, yet the list is very long and its not good trying to remember those 2 words. but whatever decision he will make, he should know the possible risks so much better if he has other contingencies in case of forgetting where he put those missing words. always have a back-up plan so you won't regret later on.

Not a great idea if we're talking about a regular human being whose memories become fuzzy after 3 hours (it's true). he might misplace stuff and it's already tough choosing which words to leave out and which words to include but whatever. Provided that he is able to memorize the words and all that, or at least remember where he placed the notes I'd say it's unnecessary too. Everyone else who could've gotten to your seedphrase will have already been able to acquire it over the internet, and those who aren't will never do, so I think this plan of his, while I consider smart and something out of a movie film of some sort, doesn't really account for the digital threat that looms over the corner.

Props to him still, but there are smarter ways to protect your electrum account. Some of which you don't need to inconvenience yourself that much.

Why do people are "losing" these things and why are we trying to find a way to make them work for it? I feel like that shouldn't really be a deal and I feel like we should not really make it work. I just think that we should make sure that people know how to properly store them and just use the things we already have.

I get that people fear that they may lose it, so just write it down somewhere and store it safe, why would you want to do something that changes anything. I believe that the results would not be that weird and I feel like it should not be any different. Of course it's hard to have a different approach, because we have been seeing the same type of approach many times over, the reason is that it works.

Well I don't think this idea is a nice one and rather than trying to store some in his head which has greater chances of been forgotten,  I think it will be better to write down the seedphrase and just store them in a save place and this might be safer than the option he proposed.

And what's the relationship between you and your homeboy and I wouldn't even advice you to have any connection with storing his seedphrase because most times, human being always looks for a tangible excuse to blame someone else for their casualties and if there is a case of loss, you might easily be pointed out which I believe you might not want.

It's neither a good idea nor a bad idea to store it elsewhere without writing it all in one place.
writing 10 words in one place and 2 words in another can make it difficult for people to know what the written words mean with different creations offline.

For me that's not bad and I can accept an idea like that because each of us has different ideas in securing word for word that is quite important so that our assets are intact.
And I'm still a big believer in storing seed phrase reserves in a few places I consider safe.

I do not see this to be safe. Memorizing a seed phrase seems okay from some perspective but not alright in general. Memorizing task of this nature is more of a cram work because if you should miss one word, the whole words are mixed up which would get everything confusing for you and as such there is every possibility that you might get it difficult knowing the first word to the last word as it is sequentially. So to best be on the safe side write down your seed phrase and store them on different places best for you to quickly access them when ever you need them.

Of all the proposed solutions to protect and hide seed words, none of them depend primarily on the ability of the human mind to remember. Like any other metal, the cells of the human brain are perishable, just like the rest of the body, and they can be considered more susceptible to damage than other materials. Therefore, seed storage boards and hardware wallets are made of solid metals that are not subject to damage or combustion for the longest possible time.
Therefore, I would like to remind you again that we are in the process of discussing the idea on the basis that it was proposed by a young child who tried hard to think of the easiest solution from his point of view.

Shuffling can make the unauthorized person suffer but they might get lucky after a few several tries of entering your seed phrase in the wallet. Don't be sure that thieves can't found or access your location. They can only come in random or when you least expect it, so it is always better to be safe than sorry.

Having securely saved multiple back-up of the exact position of your seed phrase is a must so that you can login them easily but it must be kept in a much secure location which you can also remember easily. Sharing our seed phrases to our loved ones might be a good idea because unexpected things could happen to us but you should choose a family member carefully.

Nothing is absolutely safe, everything is risky, mate. You can't doubt everything and live in anxiety just thinking about storing bitcoins. In my opinion, we don't need to be too fancy or complicate things, use whichever method you feel is safest for you (any method).

One more thing, I think it's best to share seed phrases with loved ones because we work, invest and earn for them and not only ourselves. So no need to worry about sharing seed phrases with them. If you keep doubting everyone including your parents, wife and children, no one will trust you.

Hello Mr @obari, I don't think that op home boys idea is a bad idea, it's more riskier to store your seedphrase at a particular place, what if somebody by any means sees it? No were is saver than separating thing, i.e if you invest in a particular coin and the coin crash to score zero you are definitely going to lose all but if you invest in several investment's and one crash the other might remain for you.
If someone can remember his/her contact information or bank pins so I don't think that a pronunciation is hard to remember, prove me wrong, before someone should invest in Bitcoin that person should be so smart enough to remember things, been a good investor requires enough brains and smartness, is only a dull person what can easily forget things.

As long as the seed phrase is not saved online where hackers or thieves could get their hands on your seed phrase that could open up your wallet. Shuffling can be confusing to owner as well especially if not saved properly. Imagine for a long time the last time you checked your seed phrase was a year ago. So probably you would forget the sequence and have alternative storing for the sequence which is kinda hassle and complicated. I won't argue that every method in storing of seed phrase doesn't have any risk, since it depends on where we are comfortable to save our passwords. "Sharing our seed phrases to our loved ones might be a good idea" I actually told my girlfriend where I stored some of my password so incase I forgot she might have an idea which is pretty good.

I do not know if this is a bad idea or not, they have a way to keep notes safer again, for them to record 10 words or 20 words and the rest of it is stored separately in different places maybe for him it is quite safe this is also the best way to store seed phrases in different places and have two different notes.

I don't do that but I save on one record and backup it in different places of course this is safe friends no one knows anyone including family, for me this is quite safe although there are some other ways that are safer but it makes me more complicated to do it.
The important thing is the backup and the place that needs to be safely kept secret.

Using this method, it is important that the storage is correct and the notes are safe from damage.
Separate storage with 2 notes bound together requires a place that is completely safe from anything.
If one of the notes is lost and not found then the wallet cannot be opened.

Being inconvenient is fine as long as the backup is secure.
But if there is no guarantee that it is safe then use other methods.
You also have the right to inform your trusted people, such as your wife, or your children because backups are useful when you cannot access them due to some unforeseen events.

The backup needs to be kept secret from outsiders, or it can become a legacy that your family will use later.

Storing your seed phrase or private key in two separate places is not a bad idea, of which only if those locations are safe, then it is okay. But trying to store them "off-hand" (i.e by memorizing it), I think that will be the worst idea anybody could ever come up with, as our human brain is not a machine and we are likely to forget if stressed or have an accident which affected our brain. However, I have also seen others ask if can they store their seed phrase in a foam of a song? Which I think it's also another bad idea if the song is not written down and stored in a safe place.

I have planned that but for now no, the children are still not grown up so he will not understand for now, my wife is still not sure even though I believe in her, but I have talked to her that I have kept some seed phrase reserves that she will definitely know later I will also inform her more clearly.

Yeah, I'm planning to pass it on to the kids, I want to know how the kids will like it, whether he will like bitcoin or something else I can't be sure, let him choose his own path.

It is always a good idea to plan an inheritance for your bitcoin to anyone you trust in your family members. That is the most important piece of advice to consider considering that no one can access the wallet if they don't have the key. You can give your wife your spare key if you trust her, but if not then you can also go the other way that many other big investors do.

I believe my wife is the right person to have a backup of the seed or privatekey of my bitcoin address, but I believe not everyone will trust their wife 100% for high value assets. But ultimately it's up to you to adapt how you inherit your bitcoins to whoever is entitled to receive them.

This approach seems unwise. Instead of relying on a single written seed phrase that could be easily forgotten or lost, it's better to write your seed phrase on a piece of paper and store them in secure locations. You may make couple of copy. By doing this, you minimize the risk of losing access to your funds due to a single mishap.

Consider who you might be trying to protect your seed phrase from. Is it from your family members? Keep in mind that if you take these precautions and something happens to you, your family may not be able to recover your funds. It's essential to strike a balance between securing your assets and ensuring your loved ones have access to them in case of any unfortunate circumstances. Leaving some funds accessible to your family, which you've worked hard to earn throughout your life, can provide peace of mind for everyone involved.

Could work for short-term storage but definitely not a great idea for a long-term one. It might sound safe at first it has some big security risks.
First of all let's start with that 2 words (out of 12). I'm fairly sure that if someone intercepts the first 10 words, brute-forcing the remaining 2 words would probably be doable. Especially if the thief knew that it's a 12-word seed and that the missing part are the last 2 words.
And memorising 2 words is obviously easy, but forgetting them is even easier. Most of people experienced suddenly going blank on something they remembered for a long time. Human memory is fragile and not reliable. We're not really "wired" to remember cold data, but rather to memorise experiences.

Second of all, whether or not that solution will be secure largely depends on how/where would you store the written-down phrase. Storing it on a piece of paper bears the risk of it getting: damaged (fire, flood, eaten by a dog etc), accidentally thrown away, lost (it's not hard to forget where you put it), stolen, or risk of the ink fading away over time or paper decaying etc. I wouldn't do it unless you have a home safe or bank deposit box.

It's better to talk to your wife than to keep it to yourself without anyone knowing.
Although there is a bit of mistrust (that's normal) it must be done for the security of your assets.

Your children will have to choose their own path, but when Bitcoin is earning enough money who wouldn't be interested?
Your children will be adults who will have an idea of how they make money and your assets will be valuable assets.

It's each person's choice. Adjust to your situation, if there is someone more trustworthy of course you have to make sure he is really trusted.
Your wife is the one who always accompanies you and she is also close to your child, so who else can be that close but your wife.

For someone with a persistent memory or who lives somewhere that is not private and secure for him, this is an ideal way to save seed phrases. For those people, in my opinion, this way of isolating seed phrases can be cool.
This type of procedure should not be attempted by someone with a weak memory because they risk forgetting their seed phrase.
Even though I have a retentive memory and can recall things, I can't seem to keep two words apart, even though this method appears cool. 

Many people criticize this method but I also find that it is also a good way to store seed phrases. Maybe when we apply this method, it will be complicated and contain some risks, but it is probably the safe way for him. We cannot criticize it because it does not suit us. Keeping secrets in different places will cause many difficulties for us but at the same time will increase the security of our secrets. Everyone has their own method and no one will be the same.

This does not increase the security of their coins at all, as it would be the easiest thing in the world for a hacker, or almost anyone for that matter that knows a little bit about bitcoin, to test the 2 remaining words and eventually find the one wallet that has some bitcoin on it.

By doing this your acquaintance is making the recovery of their coins way harder while the security of their coins is not increasing significantly, making it a bad trade-off if you ask me.

I think if 2 or 4 words are separated from all the words it will be better safe. But it is better if you can memorize this 2/4 word if you don't put it somewhere else. It's easy to memorize but a lot of risk because if you miss one letter from these words you will lose all your money. In contrast, if you write down these letters in a good safe place, you can certainly save them in case you forget them in the future. But you have to hide it in a place that no one but you knows about so it will be safe. Otherwise, your currency will certainly not be good if some other experienced person gets hold of your stored words. So as far as possible you should write on paper or any important thing and keep it safe as possible.

Such methods can be adopted for the security of one's wallet. A person who adopts this method must remember where he has separately stored two words out of twelve words or where he has separately stored four words out of 24 words. This method is as safe as it is risky, I say risky because whenever the total words are divided into two parts and kept separately if one of the two is lost or not found then the person can lose his wallet. I don't think there is a need to store the wallet's private key in two places if it can be kept in a safe place. Collection at one location is safer than collection at two locations if it can be safely stored in one location without separate storage.

Separating the seed phrase and storing it in two different places increases security but also brings more risk to our bitcoins. If we thought that storing the private key or seed phrase in 1 place wouldn't be secure enough and someone might find out. Then storing 2 places will not be more effective because, in the first place, we have chosen an unsafe storage place. I think this will only complicate things, not bring much effect. Instead, find the safest place and only we know about it, the storage will be safer and more convenient for us.

Fair point, people, when thinking of security, tend to only focus on possibility of someone hacking their keys over the internet, but that's only one of many vulnerabilities. Losing keys stored in a physical location also needs to be considered (be it theft, fire/water damage or simply forgetting when you put them) - and the more physical location there are - the greater the risk.
But perhaps OP meant to split the phrase and keep it separately in an electronic version, i.e. as an encrypted file saved on 2 separate email accounts etc.

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Very funny, what a coincidence!

Year's back i had the opportunity to help one gentleman to unlock his tablet.

He was the rightful owner of that tablet. But, somehow the tanlet got stolen. After days of searching for the tablet he got an informations of the person that probably buy such item(s) so, i had to accompany him to this area. Luckily, for us we were able to find his tablet because it seems the so-called expert who normally unlock most blocked smartphone(s) & tablet were unable to unlock this one

So, we had to refund the exact which was paid to the seller(the person who probably stole the tablet)

Upon recieving the tablet, he has to insert the right passphrase in order to gain access his files. So, he tried to login with the passphrase but, access was not granted. He also check were he wrote the last 4 letters in his local language just to confirm that is the correct passphrase

I guess, the original passohrase has been frozen for security purpose. So, i had to use software to generate series of identical passphrases. Very complex procedure(s) but, i will not to explain this concept in details.

 At the end, i was able to access the tablet by resetting a new passphrase.

Final note; you see, i donot understand the local language of that fellow but, i was able to generate set of 5 key passphrases in less than 30 mins. in order to access a locked tablet.

So, generating 4 or 5 letters is as easy as drinking coffee☕ for experience folks.

I hope this help you and your colleague to make a wise decision.


Regards
Bitcseo

The idea isn't a stupid one at all but it's neither cool or great!
It's not a stupid idea because there's no uniformly accepted way of securing our seed phrase, everyone makes use of the mechanism that they feel comfortably safe about and if it's working for them so well then there's no way to describe it as stupid. The goal is to keep the seed phrase safe by whatever means and these means are different for everyone.

On the other hand its neither cool nor great, in that, you can forget those two phrase you think you have off hand through memory related sickness like stroke etc those two are lost for good. More so,  having the whole or part of your seed phrase store in a single location each is not safe, it would be safer storing them in multiple secure locations you can trust for security. Take me for example, I have my seed phrase stored in three different locations, be it a natural disasters or arson occuring there's no way it will happen simultaneously to affect these three locations at a time.

Split the seed phrase and save it on 2 email accounts or is it safer to save it on 2 or 3 online storage services? I've heard of this method but I never believed in hosting on online platforms, even though it sounds like a pretty good way. But the inconvenience here is that you also need to remember 2 or more email passwords, and preserving 2 email passwords is like storing seed Phrases in 2 places.

To be fair, every method has its pros and cons, which may be safe for you but not necessarily safe for others. So let's keep it in the way that we feel is safest.