Bitcoin Forum

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US Government Sells Another 8,200 Bitcoin, On-Chain Data Confirms
The US government is slowly but surely ridding itself of its BTC connected to Silk Road.
On-chain analysts at CryptoQuant have confirmed previous rumors that the United States government has sold another large batch of Bitcoin (BTC) connected to the defunct darknet marketplace, Silk Road.
For more details->source (https://cryptopotato.com/us-government-sells-another-8200-bitcoin-on-chain-data-confirms/#&gid=1&pid=1)

I have been hearing for a long time that large-scale of selling and buying Bitcoin has a big impact on the market. So now a question arasie in my mind that how this proccess manupulate  the market. I wanna know some details from you guys.
Thank you
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~speedx~

Can you rephrase your question? What do you mean by 'manipulate' in this case? They sell the BTC on the open markets hence there's downward selling pressure. What more do you want to know?

Let me make you understand in a simple manner, bro. Unlike any other asset, bitcoin follows the law of supply and demand. You might also be aware that bitcoins are limited in number. Hence, this makes bitcoin very rare. When you hear bulk buying the coins, it simply means the demand to acquire the bitcoins has increased, and in order to fulfil the demand, the price also goes up due to the limited supply of bitcoins. Similarly, when there is a huge "selling" order, the price goes down. This is a general overview of how buying and selling affect the price of bitcoins.

If more bitcoin is bought, the price will increase. If more bitcoiis is sold, the price will decrease. But bitcoin marketcap is too big for manipulation. Coins with low marketcap are the ones that can easily be manipulated.

The Bitcoin market is also controlled by forces of demand and supply, the higher the demand the greater the price, and the lesser the demand the lower the price. When the government makes such an announcement that it is selling a large chunk of bitcoin it also gives rise to FUD. Some investors will begin to dump their coins because of fear of the unknown. But in recent times these news or dumps is having less impact on the market price. Most times the market recovers in a few days. The bitcoin sector is gradually becoming immune to the impact caused by these sales which usually caused the market to nosedive in time past.

I think he was too hasty to say it or motivated from the news he read then asked the forum, we already understand how the market mechanism, selling and buying is a definite factor in the market, and demand will increase the scarcity that affects the price to be higher, and selling is an action that makes goods become more abundant in the market, and that makes the price lower or lower, the mechanism is simple and it is common knowledge.
Regarding sales made by the US government, of course, this is not a strange thing anymore, because they have also done that before, and they do not manipulate the market from selling bitcoins, and also no one can manipulate that, as you said, the marketcap is very large so it is difficult to manipulate.

It's not really manipulation if you are selling or buying on the open market without any bad intentions, but very much possible to manipulate the price if you hodl a good stash of some crypto and you want to influence price in some way and trigger the herd mentality of which users will try follow what a whale is doing!

As of the question on how sells and buys influence the market value, well think of this being a tag of war...whoever comes out the Victor after the war decides the direction of the market on that particular day and in this case the US government selling a huge chunk of coins means putting selling pressure on the market such that if you were looking at the charts you could see a huge red candle for this transaction as it fills all buying orders at market value going down from highest to lowest order till all coins are sold.

It is only a manipulation if you have something to benefit other than the value of the traded assets.

- Say someone wants to buy Bitcoins at a cheaper, they can start selling their bitcoins faster than the market can buy at that moment, this often creates a cascading effect that prompts other trades to open sell positions as well. This way, the price goes down and they canbget it lower, at a discount. This is a common practice in the crypto market especially with altcoin projects with small to medium marketcap. For Bitcoin, it's much difficult since you to spend a lot more in other to tilt the direction of the market in your favor.

I wonder what else folks want to know about large sell-off rather than a temporary price fall which will be an insignificant proportion to what the total Bitcoin being sold off,  and if the US government decided to pull off their seized Bitcoin to support their inflation-afflicted economy trying to save the USD from sinking.

Even at that,  this current Bitcoin price pullback is a kind of correction that will propel a more robust Bitcoin price in the coming weeks,  since Bitcoin has sustained this price benchmark even with all the market pressure.

right, the decline in bitcoin seems to be just a price correction to get squared off to jump higher. here the bitcoiner's belief in bitcoin is more solid so that they have the thought that bitcoin is a good investment, which in the future the price will always rise along with the development of bitcoin adoption. price fluctuations that occur as if a normal phenomenon and currently bitcoiner is not as fragile as before, even though the price fell by more than 50%, because later it will fly more than the previous ATH

I'm not really sure what the OP wanted to say, but obviously,

a. if big whales sell and it was seen by speculators then they might panic and sell as well
b. if big whales buy and it was seen by speculators then they might buy as well

Just always have it in the mind that bitcoin market is not being manipulated, when you're conscious of these, you will then have a quicker understanding of more about how the market dumps and pumps works and the logic behind the demands and supply, especially when there's a sudden release of bitcoin into the market for circulation, some had also thought about the role of miners and how they can also use their block reward to trigger the market rise and fall, everyone keep coming with his own idea but know that US released of this bitcoin make no significant impact to rise the market significantly.

The total amount of the seized silk road bitcoins could be considered worthless depending on how dirty or clean they are. If things they were exchange for are bad/evil, they will have little to no sufficient power to move the price of Bitcoin ... Only clean money can move the price of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin price was recalculated such that low supply & high demand for clean bitcoins can move price up while high supply moves price down. That also means if someone or people are buying clean bitcoins price would go up. If they are selling price goes down. Clean bitcoins have more powers to move Bitcoin price.
 Price could also be moved by people with enough power in form of contributions to the development of Bitcoin. The logic here is that good contribution from such people is thesame as  good/clean Bitcoin... good contribution = clean bitcoin = power. Your good contributions, depending on how quality/powerful they are help Bitcoin grow. If you contribute good ideas it grows, if you contribute clean bitcoins it grows

If I am understanding you correctly, you are interested in understanding the concept of manipulation in all markets including Bitcoin. It is a common  belief that entities or individuals often referred as "Whales) with significant amount of funds can dictate or change the direction of market by making substantial buying and selling. The  primary motive behind such  actions is to make quick gains. This artificial movement of market is known as manipulation.

However, It is important to note that all significant buying or selling is not manipulation. There are many mega institutions who make huge buying for legit reasons, despite the fact that such buying can also potentially impact the market price of assets.

Op you are not from US and you are interested to write on US issues which their official language is English and now you have confused yourself with English Language ;D From your topic to the conclusion of the thread is something else. You even used American language in the last phrase. Yes the demand and supply chain affect the market price. The full participation of whales in the market manipulate the prices.

This sell is not done via market order which gives the market a room for a recovery. 8200 Bitcoin is not sold in one order or if ever it’s done with that, The liquidity on the exchange orderbook can handle this volume of selling since exchange already has a lot of capital to do that.

The FUD news is more dangerous to manipulate the market rather than a sell-off by a single entity since there’s a lot of retail traders willing to purchase during small dips.

Bitcoin can not be manipulated by anyone. Selling and buying of bitcoin doesn't open room for manipulation, what bitcoin price depends on is demand and supply. If the demand for bitcoin is high then the price of bitcoin will also be high. If whales sell off their coins,and other people buys them the market will remain balanced. It is if everyone start selling off including individuals and whales that is when the price of bitcoin will be affected because there will be little demand for it. Bitcoin is not an altcoins that can be manipulated by the dev or a whale because of its decentralized nature.

OP, it's just like the rule of demand and supply: when demand is higher than supply, prices skyrocket, but when supply exceeds demand, prices fall. For Bitcoin, the price can also be influenced by the level of purchase; if a huge amount of Bitcoin is being bought by different institutions, then the price can take a spike, and when a huge amount is also sold out by different whales, then the market takes a brief downturn that doesn't really last for a very long time. The bitcoin market is not just like altcoins, where there's always price manipulation or some huge pump and dump. The Bitcoin price movement is not easily influenced by just one factor, unless it's a really terrible situation like a war or pandemic.

bitcoin value and bitcoin market price are 2 separate measures

bitcoins value is a underlying support number below the market. its made up from the cheapest acquisition cost fora period and creates the support of new 'bottoms' for the markets to then speculate above

the market price speculates above value and yes this speculation wiggles up and down depending on demand.
the market is not about the 19m+ coins in circulation but a smaller allotment of about 2m spread across multiple exchanges, by which if one exchange has say 500k coins volume per day and has being pushed to sell 10k (2%) then it can cause market movement. but usually its the social drama that causes other users to move their own funds(3-95% of exchange funds) to move in reaction to the news of the 2% movement

you can never predict the movements because although at first the 2% would cause a 2% dump. other players are anticipating the 2% dumb so they buy at a 2% discount. thus they can cause the price to go back up
another bread of players may fear the dump and also dump themselves. and another breed of players may anticipate the fear dumb and counter it with discount buys.

What ?

Buying Pressure raises the price and in reverse order, the Selling pressure brings the market down what's the point of the manipulation here.. Manupaltion actually an act done by the big market players where they feed the particular emotion in traders and retailers to make high gains as if they want to buy in cheap simply they will put the selling pressure in the market by their pre holdings so it will create a fearful and fuddy situations dn weak hands will sell their assets in cheap to avoid losses but their act brings them towards a real loss and the manipulators Buy with joy. Hope so you've got the answer to what is manipulation..

I can give a more explanatory example from the current circumstances. As the market is feeling a highly tight range of flow and selling pressure this is the actual manipulation where the retailers are trying to fill up the bags, Why I am so sure because the on-chain activity is presenting a fully Bullish accumulation process but the market is not performing in that swing. Sec is putting pressure on statements but at the same time, the giants are using their statements to cover up their late fillings. Seems like they are playing Statement Statement and using them against the weak hand's regular fearful traders.

The price of the Bitcoin market is determined by the level of market supply and demand. Just like we have in real trading when there's a limited supply of goods buyers will increase in price but when there huge supply it will go low. Therefore, BTC price is always volatile during the moment large-scale selling activity occurs.

Manipulation is something like an action where the perpetrator influences the market by engaging with intentional selling and buying when the market collapse.  I do not think that the action of the US government selling huge amounts of Bitcoin falls under that category since there is no evidence that the US government is buying after they sell the confiscated Bitcoin.

It is normal to see the market crash when there is a sudden influx of BTC in the market but I believe the market will slowly recover as the demand pressure in the Bitcoin market recovers.

If someone sells a lot of BTC by filling the current buy orders, this can crash the price if there's not a lot of depth. For example, if there's only a few buy orders for buying 1 BTC at $30k, a few for 1 BTC at $29k, and so on, then fulfilling those orders by selling thousands of coins would bring the price to very low levels instantly. But if the market has enough depth - if there are orders for buying thousands of coins at the price slightly below the market, then dumping a lot of coins will only drop the price by fractions of percent.

But another thing to consider is that some orders might be fake and they will get removed when the price will start moving (spoofing). And price changes trigger placement of new orders, became traders and their bots react very quickly. Even a small sell could turn into a panic and big crash.

Also, large transactions often happen outside of public markets, aka OTC trading, so they might not influence the market at all.

And lastly, even the news or blockchain activity can influence the price sometimes.

We have to bear in mind that smart money are always looking to stop out small traders that's why there's a manipulation that happens in the market. Manipulation occur because institutions wants to invest at a very discounted price before it proceed to it's destination.

Example: if the price is a clear up trend, and they want to buy at a very discounted price, they will manipulate it through bad news so that some people will panic and sell their assets so that price will dump but there's a huge buy orders below and waiting to be filled before the price continue to the upside.

Well I went straight to replying to your topic title because your post is a bit ununderstable. So the question is how the buy and sell order influence or manipulate the market , right ?
So at first I wanna say that only higher amount of bitcoin selling or buying can make some differences of price otherwise It is not possible to manipulate the market as it is.
As I am seeing you are from my local community, So I will give you an example of selling vegetables in our locals market. Like when the winter season comes or the vegetable season comes, one can see that a lot of vegetables are growing in the market and selling them. So here the selling is more than the demand.  On the other hand, when you see off-season, demand is high and sales are low. So in this case, when the demand is high, the price of vegetables is also high, and when the selling is high, the price of vegetables is low.
This is how Bitcoin's market is menu-plated, when the selling of Bitcoin is high, its price is dumping a bit, and on the other hand, when you see big influencers or industries buying it, its price goes up, because then the number of people buying it becomes more.  hope you understand

Let me put it in a language you can understand brother.

Suppose I have apples I sell by the bulk, and then one day, I wake up, setup my store and my business, and then out of nowhere someone buys all the apples from me, from the stall nearby, and basically everywhere else. That would effectively drive the value of apples yeah? Cause now every apple vendor knew that it's the hottest shit in the business world, and with that being said they can sell apples however they want cause they know people will pay whatever amount just to get a taste of this apple stuff. Now picture this, all of a sudden one day while business is booming every one decided they don't want apples anymore. People far and wide especially those that bought apples at an all-time-high price will wish to sell these now worthless fruits just so they don't lose money!

If you caught the metaphor behind that analogy I made, that's basically what the influence of a buy and sell in the market is, this doesn't just apply to crypto. This applies to anything with a value and an economy.

Buys and sells have got some obvious effects on the market. It basically structures the market to assume certain forms as deplayed by the candle sticks.

Buys and sells expresses the demand and supply curve on that product which is reflected in the Ask/Bid price.

Now, having bitcoin flooding the market, it creates a condition of having more coins than investors are willing or ready to buy which pushes sellers to drop price thereby, dumping the currency and the opposite applies when we have more of buyers.

Meanwhile, there are sentiments that follows all these provisions of liquidity as it could lead to panic sales but, that's for weak hands.

Price of any asset is derived by it's demand and supply in the market it's being traded. For crypto, the markets are the exchanges.

Buys = More Demand
Sells = Less Demand
Supply = Total No. of Bitcoins available on exchanges to be bought

So when someone buy Bitcoin, supply on exchange goes low which makes the price go up.
When someone sells Bitcoin, supply on exchange goes high which makes the price go low.

in my idea this process of selling huge amount of BTC will create more supply in the market and if the supply increased the demand then there will be a decrease in the price of BTC. And if supply decreased over demand, then the price will increase. And i think i have heard another news few weeks ago just like it in which they are selling BTC in Batches.

Means to say, there is a topic made in which OP mentioned how many BTC are seized by US governments and those seized BTC are then sold by them and every time they sell it through on-chain.  Bitcoins held by the US government (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452300.0).

few days back they also sold some seized BTC from the Silk Road and at that time market was also around 29k$ and in my opinion the current situation of the market is due to this issue. But such incidents also indicates that if they are selling this huge amount of BTC then there must be a buyer on the hands too willing to buy this BTC. So, we should overcome our fear and FUD. because such news might create panic and thus selling of BTC will increase the supply of over demand and this factor will decrease the price greatly.

Are you pretty much asking if selling 8,200 bitcoin all in one transaction can somehow impact the market? The simple answer is no. Of course 8,200 bitcoins are a huge quantity for a single person, even for a company, but considering the whole market and the amount of bitcoins sold and bought every single day that quantity is almost irrelevant.

The law of supply and demand is the basis for why bitcoin prices can go up or down, when cases of buying and selling occur on a large scale, this is where the process of supply and demand occurs. But on closer inspection this is not entirely true about manipulating the market because bitcoins cannot be controlled by anyone even if they hold a much larger amount. If bitcoin can be controlled on the basis of manipulation then there are many large investors who can regulate prices in the market, both the process of increasing and decreasing.

Thus manipulation is not a basis regarding rising or falling prices. But the supply and demand process plays its role when certain conditions occur, so that it can bring price jumps or go down, maybe what you mean is the effect of selling or buying that occurs not price manipulation.

While large marketcap coins such as Bitcoin or Ethereum cannot be manipulated entirely by one organization in the recent years, a large scale coin/crypto company winding down their operations or being hacked may trigger a significant black swan event in the crypto market as a whole. In this scenario, the prices are not directly manipulated but they have been influenced based on the downfall of other cryptocurrencies in general. The crypto market has outgrown and they are generally not entirely dependent on bitcoin alone nowadays.

When $LUNA crashed down to the bottom, multiple investors cashed out of the crypto market entirely taking down Bitcoin to new lows last year. Similarly a ripple effect was created in the market because of this and thereby multiple other companies such as 3AC crashed down to the bottom which in-turn affected FTX internally. When FTX applied for a Chapter 11 bankruptcy, the market took a nosedive once again and in this scenario Bitcoin going down can be seen as a collateral damage as Sam had inflated the prices of multiple coins including Bitcoin and they were known to the general public only later on.

Consider a situation where Binance or any large exchange gets hacked and suffers a huge damage which will inturn force Bitcoin to go down to $10k range. What if Microstrategy's investors force Saylor to sell an amount to minimize the loss? If this news moves out to the public eye, bitcoin price action would obviously be moving to new lows. Hence such a scenario can be considered as a partial manipulation.

I think he is referring to whale manipulation instances such as the actual scenario. Indeed, with the basic law of demand,  selling activities are a sign of a decline which means the market valus is more likely to decrease as well. But that's not how things work easily. Indeed a huge sell would move the price but it depends into the majority whether they would follow the price action instantly. This is visible with candle sticks in price charts. If there is a sudden long candle out of greens, then a huge amount was sold. But as I've said, it could easily be put into the reversal if majority says so. And with the given instance, he referred to the government selling such thing which may trigger a domino effect especially if it would be announced to the public.

Broadly speaking it will be a manipulation carried out with the aim of influencing the market price. Whoever has the power and has a lot of money will determine which direction the market will go because most people will follow it, so trends will change easily. Whales are able to do that, flipping prices back and forth as they please, triggering domino effects and such.

You are right and that is the reason why neither bitcoin nor ETH can be fully manipulated by any particular organization. Cases like binance and FTX will only affect the course of bitcoin in the short term and now it's not such a big problem anymore because holders don't really care about the problem, so they keep holding bitcoins and don't get involved in the selling process through panic and in the end the pressure on the correction process is only temporary.

The initial collapse of some exchanges might have triggered excessive market panic as holders tried to cut losses by selling in a panic, but in the case of binance which had problems with the SEC, bitcoin was only depressed at low prices for a short time and after that it went back to normal. What I see is precisely because people are no longer panicking about these conditions and the previous case at FTX may have been an experience for some people in making the decision to continue holding.

It may be partly true that pressure under certain conditions can drive down the price of bitcoin, but the process may be different when it comes to the supply and demand process. I don't really understand what the impact will be if Microstrategy forces Saylor to sell some assets to minimize losses, but excess bitcoin can actually pass through that cycle that we often see every four years. That is the reason why bitcoin investors no longer panic in a sharp decline caused by several events that have occurred, at least that is what I have seen so far and I assume so.