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Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: She shining on July 26, 2023, 08:51:20 PM



Title: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: She shining on July 26, 2023, 08:51:20 PM
Hello everyone. My question might come as been stupid or childish so constructive criticism would be appreciated.
I have come across a lot of users that plans on accepting Bitcoin in their business and I'm curious on how they tackle fraudulent problems.

  • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?

  • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

  • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

  • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?

  • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)

I have been contemplating this for sometime now so assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: mendace on July 26, 2023, 09:12:25 PM


  • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?


If a user uses a custody wallet to buy goods and the seller does not comply with the agreement, the situation can be complicated.  In general, Bitcoin transactions are irreversible, which means that if the seller does not comply with the agreement, it can be difficult to get a refund

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  • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
Bitcoin is an anonymous payment system if you take precautions you can bypass the controls but the risk is always good to evaluate it

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  • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
In most cryptocurrency transactions, the buyer sends their Bitcoins to the seller first.  Once the Bitcoins are received, the seller can then deliver the goods or provide the agreed services.

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  • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?
The Lightning Network is a scalability solution for Bitcoin that allows for faster and cheaper transactions.  Transactions on the Lightning Network involve only parties directly involved in the transaction and require open payment channels between them.  The Lightning Network is designed to be secure, but it's still important to be careful and only do business with people or businesses you trust.

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  • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)

Centralized exchanges can be vulnerable to cyber attacks and can compromise customer data.  For this reason, it is crucial to choose reputable exchanges and take security measures to protect customer data.  Safekeeping of coins should be handled securely, for example, by keeping most funds in offline wallets (cold wallets).
I have been contemplating this for sometime now so assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: bittraffic on July 26, 2023, 09:16:59 PM
In the case of online merchants, I think they will use platforms like BitPay which they may complain to this company if something happens. Customers will also have to DYOR to verify whether the merchant is not a scam.

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In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

Yep, You could say it only involves those you trust which is why you may need to read comments and accusations about the online store. It's easier to make a transaction if it's a local store.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: AmoreJaz on July 26, 2023, 09:21:11 PM
In the case of online merchants, I think they will use platforms like BitPay which they may complain to this company if something happens. Customers will also have to DYOR to verify whether the merchant is not a scam.

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In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

Yep, You could say it only involves those you trust which is why you may need to read comments and accusations about the online store. It's easier to make a transaction if it's a local store.

in today's online market, you usually pay before you receive the item. unless, it is local and they are accepting cash on delivery. that is why there are reviews of the seller if it is really legit or not. you won't trust a new seller without any review to buy an expensive item from him. just to give an example. so if you do really want the item, it is best to buy a trusted seller even if the price is a bit higher. at least you are sure that he will deliver.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: Ayebabara on July 26, 2023, 09:30:12 PM
Before you buy anything to small medium business, you havee to know the seller if you want to use bitcoin to  buy the goods. Because when you send the bitcoin to the person in the custodial wallet and the person refused to waybill or ship the goods to my brother yours is gone. That is why when you want to buy the things it is better you go the wholesale and buy them and pay the person with bitcoin and you take goods and go.
Online business or buying things online is not encourage because the scammers online are many so to avoid those stories, it is better you go the shop and use p2p to purchase your things.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: pawel7777 on July 26, 2023, 09:41:21 PM
  • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
If a user uses a custody wallet to buy goods and the seller does not comply with the agreement, the situation can be complicated.  In general, Bitcoin transactions are irreversible, which means that if the seller does not comply with the agreement, it can be difficult to get a refund

Depends on the type of transaction and whether the buyer and the seller are located in the same jurisdiction.
People have been paying cash (of different forms) since the dawn of civilisation. Just like bitcoin payments, cash transactions are also irreversible and it's down to the seller if they decide to give you a refund or not. This was never a major problem as we have customer protection laws that force sellers to refund the money in specific situations, and bitcoin payments are no exception here.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: Odusko on July 26, 2023, 10:07:53 PM
That is why must businesses that accept Bitcoin as payment does that through the use of payment system like a third-party payment system where the goods owner and the buyer meet to stick the trade, like what we have with p2p trading on the exchange where the exchange serves as a third party escrow.
So it is in accepting Bitcoin for payment, there is no way the seller will deny not receiving the fund as payment for goods.

More also you must know that, if you are residing in a country where cryptocurrency is illegal and banned by the government, it is better to totally avoid using it for either payment or as an asset since you risk getting your wallet red-flagged by the government.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: Smartvirus on July 26, 2023, 10:21:01 PM
My question might come as been stupid or childish so constructive criticism would be appreciated.
I have come across a lot of users that plans on accepting Bitcoin in their business and I'm curious on how they tackle fraudulent problems.
Asking questions and learning haven’t got any stupid thing about it. It’s simply you trying to improve yourself about what you ought to know on a course and that’s okay.

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  • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
There wouldn’t be any need to worry about the buyer not sending his or her coin in the event of a physical transaction once the trade is initiated and the transaction has got at least one confirmation on it. At that point, transactions becomes irreversible.

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  • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
Cryptos aren’t completely outlawed in most countries, it’s mostly a question of it not being recognized for a means of exchange. Still, it would be great to stick to your nation’s laws about the assets you keep.

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  • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
It’s dependent on the deal at the time. You both gets to decide based on the level of trust and if, your ready to take the risk in the event that, you both aren’t physically present.

In all, I would say you shouldn’t start what you ain’t ready for. Not until your well informed on it.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: serjent05 on July 26, 2023, 10:22:31 PM


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  • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?

This is a complicated matter because if the sender chooses to transact with unregistered unknown users then he cannot do anything about it but be careful next time.  If the merchant is known and is registered entity then he can file a complaint to authorities assuming that Bitcoin is considered a mode of payment and both party are in the same country it would be difficult if each resides on a different country though. 


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  • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

Why transact with Bitcoin when you know it is illegal in your country?  Whatever the reason of these person's are, they themselves knows it since I would avoid the Bitcoin transaction if it is illegal in my country, lucky it was not.


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  • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

This depends on the agreement of the two involved.  If it is about buying in a merchant, it is the buyer who sends the Bitcoin first then the merchant sends the bought item.



Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: nelson4lov on July 26, 2023, 10:38:34 PM
Hello everyone. My question might come as been stupid or childish so constructive criticism would be appreciated.
I have come across a lot of users that plans on accepting Bitcoin in their business and I'm curious on how they tackle fraudulent problems.
I have been contemplating this for sometime now so assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

On the contrary, These are thoughtful questions that every business owner considering integrating Bitcoin should consider in order to make well-informed decisions. Also I have a tip for you. You can have just one list and many list items compared to using many lists with a single item in each one.


If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?[/li][/list]

Before placing the order and proceeding to payment there should be an understanding of the terms of the business between both parties that would be transacting. Once the state has been updated on the blockchain (payment confirmed), there is no way to recall payments. My suggestion is to clarify all the terms and enquire about a refund process if there is any.

In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

If they have a way to convert it to their local currencies and can evade government or regulating bodies, then it should be fine. Accepting Bitcoin opens up a business to a wider audience. These days, If I want to make payments to non-local businesses for goods or services, I always check for the pay with Bitcoin option.

In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

The buyer has to send the payment first. This is the same for even P2p trades as payment often validates an order.

Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?

Ideally, payment should only come last when all due diligence has been conducted. The way bitcoin works is that we have to take full responsibility for any decisions that have to do with our Bitcoin. Knowing this, it would make zero sense to make payment without confirming the authenticity of business or the products and services being advertised.

I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)[/li][/list]

I agree it makes it safer especially in an event where one of the transacting party wants to dupe the other. Centralized exchanges can help mitigate those situations. But this has its downsides as well. But I believe problems like this will be solved in the coming years as the technology is still undergoing major developments.



Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: Wexnident on July 26, 2023, 10:51:56 PM
  • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
And this is by for example, not giving the goods themselves? This kind of setup usually involves people talking about it themselves and making out terms that both parties would agree in. A middle party would be the best, but if it was a personal transaction between the two, then they only need to talk it out imo. In terms of complaining, I don't think there is between private transactions between small parties, but I reckon there's a law or something for products or services offered by companies (since you can report them to the local government who holds their license or something similar).

  • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
Naturally. But there are ways to transfer it over to their local currency, so why not? I highly doubt people who are risking the use of Bitcoin are that ignorant in the ways and methods to use it anyway.

  • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
The buyer would most probably send the Bitcoin first since there's a period they need to wait for the transaction to be confirmed. Ofc, this can probably be adjusted depending on the terms between the two parties.

  • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?
It's why Bitcoin is decentralized in the first place, there was no need for trust since third parties (miners) would confirm the transaction themselves. The lightning network is only a network that's used to enhance the speed of the transactions themselves.

  • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)
No? Their not supposed to "access" it in the first place, they're role is simply to store it. Accessing it is a whole nother thing. Not to mention a lot of centralized businesses can be rather dumb in terms of data security, so most people just can't help it but be doubtful of them. And with the advent of the internet, a simple full name and a contact number can get you a LOT of information about that person.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: komisariatku on July 26, 2023, 11:06:31 PM
If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?

If you are in a country where bitcoin is legal currency, you can report the scam to the police. But I don't think the police will be much help, especially if the transaction you're doing isn't big money. I think using fiat currency would be the same, and have the same risks in online transactions

In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

I didn't think I would do that. If you are determined to keep using bitcoins in a country where bitcoins are not legal, then you should be prepared to face legal trouble.

In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

It depends on the buying and selling system that you use. Most buying and selling transactions, the buyer will send bitcoin first before the seller sends the goods. Because there is no COD system in bitcoin, maybe you can convince the seller to send the goods first before you pay, in my opinion this is more of an agreement between the seller and the buyer

I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)

I'm not too scared of centralized exchanges, especially one with a big name like binance. I've never had a problem with a centralized exchange, I've used the exchange to buy bitcoins, sell bitcoins to fiat, or buy altcoins. I don't store my bitcoins/altcoins on a centralized exchange. I think you have nothing to fear when you use an exchange but if you keep your funds in the exchange like your own wallet then it is wrong. Use the exchange only for trading activities, don't think of it as a wallet


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: BlackBoss_ on July 27, 2023, 01:40:44 AM
If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
If both the buyer and seller use a centralized peer to peer marketplaces like Binance P2P, they can file dispute to resolve the trade.

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In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
If Cryptocurrency exchanging is considered as illegal in your country, don't take risk to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange. They accepted it because they accept risk.

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In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
Nobody should do such trade. Go first is always risky and you should never do that except you know the trade partner is highly trusted.

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Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?
You can be scammed. Bitcoin on-chain or off-chain with Lightning network, if you are worrying of scam, you must use Escrow services or Peer-to-Peer marketplaces/ decentralized exchanges which provide Escrow service for traders. Trading without Escrow is risky and you can be scammed.

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I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)
KYC does not exclude all risks but it's good if you use a centralized exchange and trade with a KYCed trade partner. It's better than you are trading with unknown trade partner on a decentralized exchange.

Being KYCed does not mean that user is not a scammer.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: bayu7adi on July 27, 2023, 03:50:01 AM
  • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
In my country, cryptocurrencies are not considered illegal, and the government's functioning is not flawless at 100%. Among several business entities, some operate without strict government oversight. This creates numerous opportunities for small businesses that have little impact on the government and receive little legal attention.

This situation provides a loophole for those interested in experimenting with Bitcoin as a means of payment (if they understand its transaction mechanism or simply wish to study it). Particularly, small business owners may be inclined to adopt Bitcoin, as the risks associated with operating in a country where cryptocurrencies are deemed illegal could directly affect their business ventures.

In short, it is generally acceptable to use cryptocurrencies for small-scale businesses that remain unnoticed by the government. However, it is crucial to exercise caution and stay informed about any potential changes in the regulatory landscape.

  • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
In commerce, small trades value money first,
But for significant exchanges, agreement's thirst.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: noorman0 on July 27, 2023, 03:55:08 AM
-snip-
  • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
Sending from a centralized wallet is actually difficult to prove. The short solution, report it to the authorities. However, this question requires more information in which room the buyer and seller make the deal. In certain cases trade disputes can even be resolved without the help of external parties.

-snip-
  • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
Reasons could be because:
- Enforcement of the rules is not too strict
- There are special laws that allow certain criteria to do that.
- Involved in illegal activities (drug trafficking, money laundering, etc.)

-snip-
  • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
Depends on the situation and the deal.

-snip-
  • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?
Whether through the LN or regular network, that is only the last point of the agreement procedure. Not related to your decision to trust someone.

-snip-
  • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)
Can't get the gist of this question yet


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: Bobrox on July 27, 2023, 05:12:34 AM
I don't know about scale business confidence in accepting in bitcoin because my country not allowed use Bitcoin for payment currency transaction, have positive and negative side when using Bitcoin for business but depend with small or medium scale business kinds.  If Business capital around $10k transaction in daily day I think is worth for accepting bitcoin as legal payment currency but have get allowed from your country, too risk when accepting bitcoin as legal payment but in your country Bitcoin still as illegal payment currency or not.
Small scale business is not worth using bitcoin as payment currency actually when sending trough custodial wallet and getting higher fees transaction, for bigger scale business is not matter have to pay fees above 5$ each transaction but small business get impact with costumer not interested yet payment trough Bitcoin.


Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
Post by: Reatim on July 27, 2023, 05:17:39 AM
    • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
    this is why  there is a need for trust and also to choose a proper seller , because it is not that easy to deal using crypto ,or also If I am the buyer , I will not send the funds once the Items is not in my hands for security purpose, and with this the trust and worthiness is the most important part.
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    • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
    because they Know the consequences and yes why not ? if crypto is not that completely prevented by the government though there is a hard risk if act on it.
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    • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
    again , trust or else the seller need to release first.



    Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
    Post by: adzino on July 27, 2023, 05:27:26 AM
    Hello everyone. My question might come as been stupid or childish so constructive criticism would be appreciated.
    I have come across a lot of users that plans on accepting Bitcoin in their business and I'm curious on how they tackle fraudulent problems.

    • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?

    • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

    • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

    • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?

    • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)

    I have been contemplating this for sometime now so assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

    1. File a complaint for fraud/scam to the local authorities like they would when making a purchase with a regular currency (FIAT currency). If the seller isn't "anonymous" and is from your area, there is a chance you will get back your funds. If not, there is no way you will get back your coins.

    2. If bitcoin is illegal, then yes, they shouldn't be using it. I don't know why business would want to accept bitcoin and risk everything. Are you sure you don't mean legal tender? Because even if it isn't a legal tender, but using bitcoin is allowed, business can accept crypto currencies, but they can refuse to accept payments in bitcoin if they want.

    3. The buyer is going to send first just like when shopping online. What's stopping the buyer from paying after receiving the goods?

    4. Lightning network or not, both requires each party to trust each other.

    5. Yes, it does make it safer. Hence there are those "wallet payment" services that lets you pay directly from the exchanges to the merchants. But yes, decentralization is lost.


    Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
    Post by: Findingnemo on July 27, 2023, 05:58:16 AM

    • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?

    • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

    • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

    • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?

    • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)


    1. Don't send your money for any trade before finalizing the amount so money should be exchanged only after consent from both parties and it is same no matter whether its custodial or non custodial wallet cause the transactions are irreversible.

    2. They are breaking the laws which may financially benefits them but not an encouraging act.

    3. Both scenarios are possible, the buyer sends Bitcoin first, and the seller provides goods/services afterward, or the seller delivers the goods/services first, and the buyer sends Bitcoin afterward depending on the situation and agreement between buywer and seller.

    4. There is no need to trust anyone for using the Lightning network, the seller just have to provide the invoice then buyer has to pay it.

    5. For them but I don't believe there is no benefits for users by using centralizing exchange other than convenience.


    Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
    Post by: un_rank on July 27, 2023, 06:14:31 AM
    • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
      If you paid cash in a physical store and the refused to meet your needs who do you complain to?
      As a buyer whatever payment method you use you always try to look out for your interest and verify the authenticity of the product on sale and how reliable the buyer is.
      If you blindly spend money, through bitcoin, bank transfer, gift cards or cash transfers you can always be cheated out of your money's worth.

      • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

      • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
        1. If it is illegal then it should not be accepted for payment by legitimate businesses.

        2. If online there should be an escrow;
        The buyer sends to the escrow > the seller sends the product > the buyer confirms the authenticity of the product > the escrow releases the funds to the seller.
        If you are in a physical store, the buyer should get the product and pay before leaving. Just as you do in any store which accepts fiat.

        I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)
        You do not determine what wallet the seller will use based on which you use.
        Centralized exchanges does not make transactions between a buyer and a merchant easier.

        - Jay -[/list][/list]


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Fivestar4everMVP on July 27, 2023, 06:46:23 AM
        Hello everyone. My question might come as been stupid or childish so constructive criticism would be appreciated.
        I have come across a lot of users that plans on accepting Bitcoin in their business and I'm curious on how they tackle fraudulent problems.

        • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
        For a person to person trade, Escrows exist for a reason, if you choose to trust your trade partner to first send your bitcoins to them directly without making use of escrow, that is the risk you choose to take and if the partner abscond with the bitcoin without keeping their own part of the deal, that's your loss, you have no one to blame except yourself.

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        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
        Will you go announcing to the government that you just accepted bitcoin as a means of payment for your goods or service? who does that? bitcoin transactions might be declared illegal by the government but they still do not have access to your bitcoin wallet or address, so you are still very free to spend your bitcoin, and also receive bitcoin from other parties without any government knowledge or interference, except you decide to report yourself to them, or maybe your trade partner decides to report you, which also means him or her also reporting him or her self.

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        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
        The normal standard of trade requires that you pay first, then the seller of the goods, or service will release whatever you have paid for to you, but like i said earlier, if the trade as to do with direct person to person, use a trusted escrow if you do not know or trust your trade partner, there is no need trying to be a hero by sending your bitcoin or goods, service first, use escrow, it only cost a very small fee which both of you can agree to split to make trade mutual.

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        • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?
        I am still a student learning how bitcoin lightning network truly works, so i cant comment on this at the moment until i have a better understanding of how the technology works.

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        • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)
        Even the centralized exchanges cant be trusted because they also are scamming many of their users, and besides, a business partner who want to scam you will not make use of a centralized exchange, except if the central exchange is also run by scammers as well and they happen to be in partnership with your supposed business partner, so centralized exchanges play little to no role at all in safeguarding the bitcoin ecosystem in terms of fraud and scams, you as an individual is basically your own security, and the moment you begin to realize this, the sooner you start learning how to keep your bitcoins, and other crypto assets safe from scammers, hackers and fraudsters.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Strongkored on July 27, 2023, 07:30:43 AM
        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

        It's really very risky, especially if the country is led by a person who is quite a dictator where all citizens will be fully supervised, including how they transact and use what currency in the transaction, if there are countries that prohibit Bitcoin but their citizens use it as a transaction, it must be done confidentially or only in personal-to-personal transactions, so that no one is involved other than the transacting party

        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

        On average, currently, online transactions will be carried out if the buyer makes a payment first after that the seller sends the goods, and usually local e-commerce can be used as a third person so that the buyer can trust that the seller will send the goods because the funds will only be received by the seller when the buyer has confirmed getting the goods.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Crypt0Gore on July 27, 2023, 09:43:25 AM
        Hello everyone. My question might come as been stupid or childish so constructive criticism would be appreciated.
        I have come across a lot of users that plans on accepting Bitcoin in their business and I'm curious on how they tackle fraudulent problems.

        • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?

        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?

        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

        • Lightning network has been praised for its speed in transactions thus used by many individuals. Does transactions only involve those you trust? Or there's a basis for the confidence of not been scammed?

        • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)

        I have been contemplating this for sometime now so assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.
        Is there anyone we complain to if we pay in fiat and the deal is no more a good one? There is a time lapse between when you buy a goods and decide to return for refund, and if Bitcoin you sent the seller is 10$ they can refund you 10$ in Bitcoin back, how is this bad? Either the sat have increased or decreased, what the buyer needs back is 10$ worth of Bitcoin, and case closed, also This won't happen every time.

        There is no way anyone can accept Bitcoin as means of payment in a country where Bitcoin and crypto is banned, it's not possible, the fear is present and one have to take it seriously, either the seller or the buyer, I am not talking about private sales like drugs or weapons where you can always do the deal behind closes doors.

        You as the buyer will have to take the step first, send your fiat or crypto to popular crypto exchange first and then swap or trade for other coins or tokens of your choice, this is why using a reputable crypto exchange is the best move.

        Just because it's a lightning network doesn't make it scam free, you can still be scammed, it's the same thing with other crypto blockchain out there, once you made the transaction into someone else's address there is no turning back, it's gone, so don't be too confidence when making transactions either through lightning or not, verify who you are sending to very well.

        Do not be too confident with centralized exchanges, most times I look at them like Banks, they have access to customers funds and they can do anything they want with your money behind your back, you trust them enough is why you leave your assets with them, they are humans like you, always withdraw your assets from any centralized exchanges after you are done trading on the platform.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Essential10 on July 27, 2023, 10:22:26 AM

        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
        Countries where buying, selling or holding Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency is illegal. Basically, since the legitimate authorities of that country do not issue virtual currency, there is no recognition of any monetary claim against it. It also warns that virtual transactions may violate various terrorist activities and money laundering laws. Such bans are generally enforced in countries whose economic and legal systems are vulnerable. Why people are so interested in Bitcoin is because it is the currency that we use for our daily work exchange which can be dollar, taka or rupee. The money we use is a currency. Bitcoin is a currency in the same way. Bitcoin is transacted by sender and receiver directly online. Although it is called a currency, it does not exist in reality, it exists only in the virtual world as we all know. Neither is it a coin, nor is it a note. It is a curiosity and this demand is mainly why people are interested in making this investment. In normal banking management, if a customer has excess funds in their account, it will certainly be called upon, but there is no such obligation for depositing bitcoins.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: yazher on July 27, 2023, 10:41:56 AM
        • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)


        I think merchants are getting partnered with 3rd party centralized payment methods when they wanted to accept bitcoins or any other crypto payment in their stores or services because of its convenience. Nowadays you don't need to worry about the way on how to add bitcoins as a mean of payment for your stores because there are lots of tutorials out there that could easily teach you and automatically you are ready to accept directly to your wallet with the help of such 3rd party services. But in terms of storing your bitcoins, then it's a different story and you need to consider choosing security over convenience.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: MarjorieZimmermanGinger on July 27, 2023, 10:49:08 AM
        • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
        You can transact directly when people buy something in your store and never believe it when they haven't sent it with some proof of delivery.

        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
        This is a big problem when you try to force payment using bitcoins, whereas your country considers bitcoins illegal to use. The question is why people still accept it because some people are too pushy, they don't think about the risks it will involve and there are too many wishes that are not adjusted, when it's better to make bitcoin anonymous in a country like that and people don't have to go through something difficult just because bitcoin can be profitable.

        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
        Depends on the agreement between the buyer and the seller. If in nature you do not trust the buyer, order to send payment first.

        I have been contemplating this for sometime now so assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.
        You have to look at the opportunities and regulations in the country where you live to enforce payments using bitcoins and also have to see how your business can impact well if you accept payments using bitcoins. When business opportunities can be developed through payments using bitcoins it is not a problem, but when your buyers do not really understand the payment system using bitcoins, then the worst result that will happen is that your business will be abandoned by customers who switch to other stores.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: komisariatku on July 27, 2023, 03:01:35 PM
        I have read through the answers y'all given and its appreciated.My country Nigeria banned crypto but its not really illegal but no enforcement would try to protect you in the advent of a Scam. I have gotten some insights but am still confuse, Doesn't it mean that for Bitcoin to be safely used in a business an organized body should exist to protect customers or sellers alike. Would this affect the decentralization of Bitcoin?

        Is bitcoin illegal in nigeria for currency or as an asset? in my country bitcoin is illegal if used as currency but legal if used as asset. So we may own bitcoins but may not buy and sell real goods with bitcoins. We will get into legal trouble if we trade real goods with bitcoins as a means of payment but not if we trade crypto on exchanges

        I think that even if there is an institution that regulates bitcoin, it will not protect you from losing bitcoin in your own wallet. It's like you put fiat money in your pocket and you lose it. Maybe if you report it to the police they will look for it but don't expect much. Maybe if your bitcoins are lost on a centralized exchange they can replace your lost bitcoins, but that is no guarantee


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: summonerrk on July 27, 2023, 03:09:55 PM

        • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)

        I have been contemplating this for sometime now so assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

        You asked a great question. On the forum, I rarely see topics that affect bitcoin as a means of payment. Everyone mainly discusses holding and trading, as well as as a means of transferring funds to relatives abroad - anonymous and without commissions. Returning to the topic of the question, I will say that unfortunately the world is poorly ready to accept cryptocurrencies as means of payment. Yes, there are Japan, Ukraine and other countries where everything is legalized, and in court you are likely to win a controversial issue. But in other countries where cryptocurrencies are not legal, no one will listen to you by going to court. We need the full acceptance of bitcoin by the whole world and the availability of legally prepared laws.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Lorence.xD on July 27, 2023, 03:21:50 PM

        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?


        Since you've mentioned that crypto or Bitcoin is not allowed in the country maybe because it has a negative impact to the economy of the country or any other reason because crypto is decentralized which the government couldn't control so most likely these kind of transactions that still uses crypto might be used to an illegal activity. In crypto you can be anonymously send assets so it would be a good thing for a criminal act to do. If there's no illegal act maybe the owner is just a crypto user that would love to open for crypto transactions of course with risk.

        Quote

        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?

        If it's an legal business where they used crypto as transactions and the buyer would buy a good physically not digital. Of course the buyer would send the money first once the seller received the payment they are good to go. There's already existing digital payment here in my country which is called Gcash, so if one day my country adapt using crypto as payment it would not be a new thing.

        Quote

        • I'm well aware of the dangers that centralized exchange poses, but doesn't their access to customers data make it feel safer to run a business? (Not to be confused for safekeeping of coins, just a means to run the trade)

        If they might do something about those data and those customers report those issue of course they wouldn't benefit for that wrong doing. Imagine thousands of users using that exchanges with those fee in a long run you wouldn't even need to work from it. So they wouldn't do about it, its like a case with Mark Zuckerberg with Facebook. He was in court due to they access to any data of the users of Facebook but of course he told the safe and security of it.



        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Wimex on July 27, 2023, 04:38:48 PM
        In the case of fraudulent transactions or breaches, resolution can be complicated, especially with Bitcoin due to its decentralized nature… If the parties involved cannot reach an agreement, the complaint can be filed with the competent authorities, depending on local regulations… Well, not in all countries it is legal to use Bitcoin, in addition to the fact that transactions are difficult to trace, which increases the use of tests and makes it even easier for a scam... On the other hand, although centralized exchanges can provide some level of security and ease of use, they can also be vulnerable to hacking and technical failures. Having access to customer data can be beneficial to running a business, but it also comes with a greater responsibility to protect the privacy and security of customers personal data.

        I would say that before accepting Bitcoin in a business, it is essential to do extensive research, understand the risks and benefits associated with its use, and be familiar with local regulations... Well, although I would like the idea of using Bitcoin in business, currently it would not be recommended due to all the risks involved.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Agbe on July 28, 2023, 05:25:50 PM
        • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
        If the seller is also using a custodial wallet then the buyer should report the issue to the seller's exchange platform and give them all the necessary documents but still yet the issue is complicated. The buyer coins will lost because they are not from the same Platform.

        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
        Even though the country take bitcoin as an illegal asset, you can still accept bitcoin in the non custodial wallet where the authority can not see. You can accept it and store or sell it back in the exchange platform to get your money back to the business.

        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
        The person that is buying the bitcoins should first send the money and when the seller received the money then he would release the bitcoin to the buyer.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: sokani on July 28, 2023, 05:48:10 PM
        If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
        If Bitcoin is legal in your country, then you complain to the authorities with proofs of payment and they will definitely look into it and see that you get your goods or a refund. Now, this is if the person has a physical store or a business that's registered but if it's just some random fellow you met online then, the authorities might not be able to help you.

        In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
        It depends on the nature of the ban. If the country says Bitcoin is illegal then you stay clear to avoid getting yourself into trouble but if it's a partial ban like the case of Nigeria then you have nothing to worry about.

        In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
        I think any person can initiate a trade, the most important thing is know who you're dealing with. If the goods is been sold online, in most cases the buyer is required to pay first and his goods is shipped down to him.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: serjent05 on July 28, 2023, 10:15:16 PM
        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
        Even though the country take bitcoin as an illegal asset, you can still accept bitcoin in the non custodial wallet where the authority can not see. You can accept it and store or sell it back in the exchange platform to get your money back to the business.

        Yeah @OP can do that but I would suggest that @OP will follow his country's regulation.  If it is banned in his country, he either move to the country where Bitcoin is legal to continue is Bitcoin transactions or stop his Bitcoin activities just to make sure that he won't get in trouble in the future.  It is better to be safe than sorry.

        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
        The person that is buying the bitcoins should first send the money and when the seller received the money then he would release the bitcoin to the buyer.

        It should be because the bank transfer can be reverted if the Bitcoin seller failed to send the Bitcoin to the buyer but it is still dependent on the agreement of the two parties. 


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Jawhead999 on July 29, 2023, 12:35:01 PM
        As always, a thread talking about business accepting Bitcoin as a payment when the most important thing in business is how to survive, how to reach break even point, and how to maintain it, not about accepting an alternative payment. How many people are use Bitcoin as a currency? I bet it's far far less than people who use Bitcoin for trading and investment. If people aren't use Bitcoin as a currency, which mean the demand is low, how it's can be important to accept Bitcoin?


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Fiatless on July 29, 2023, 01:41:30 PM
        I have read through the answers y'all given and its appreciated.My country Nigeria banned crypto but its not really illegal but no enforcement would try to protect you in the advent of a Scam. I have gotten some insights but am still confuse, Doesn't it mean that for Bitcoin to be safely used in a business an organized body should exist to protect customers or sellers alike. Would this affect the decentralization of Bitcoin?
        Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are not banned in Nigeria. Citizens are free to use crypto as a form of payment and no enforcement agency will sanction you for using them. The only issue is that banks are not allowed to engage in crypto transactions. This was not the case before until the Central Bank of Nigeria gave commercial banks directives not to allow their customers to use accounts for crypto transactions. Apart from these bank restrictions, you can use crypto for any form of payment and it is recognized as a currency in the country.

        Some laws guide crypto operations in Nigeria and one of them is the Investments and Securities Act 2007 (Amendment). There are also existing laws and agencies that protect crypto users in Nigeria which include the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), Nigerian Cyber Crime (Prohibition, Prevention) Act 2015, and the Consumer Protection Framework of the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN). So you can sue or be sued for any faulty crypto transaction in a law court in Nigeria.


        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: tjtonmoy on July 29, 2023, 08:23:04 PM
        • If for example a user of a custodial wallet sends Bitcoin to buy some goods and the seller voluntary chooses not to meet their end of the bargain, who are they going to complain to?
        No one. Because you cannot get back sent bitcoins as it is irreversible. That's why you need to confirm first before paying and make sure both parties agree on the deal. Never send Bitcoins before verifying.

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        • In countries where crypto are considered illegal isn't it risky to accept Bitcoin as a medium of exchange? Then why are some people still accepting it?
        I was one of them who accepted Bitcoin while it is illegal here. At that time, it was in a gray area. Neither legal nor illegal. After some events that took place in our country, some were put to jail just because they owned crypto. So after that, for my own safety, I choose not to accept it anymore. It is wise to not accept Bitcoin where it is illegal.

        Quote
        • In a trade does the buyer send their Bitcoin first or the seller send their goods/service?
        Depends on what you are looking for. Also, depends on the service provider and their terms and conditions. Some will ask for the payment beforehand and some will ask for it after they have provided their services. So can't tell for sure which one is available and where.



        Title: Re: Small/medium scale Businesses confidence in accepting Bitcoin
        Post by: Blitzboy on July 30, 2023, 09:11:48 AM
        Concerning fraudulent transactions, it is true that there is no central authority to complain to in the event of a dispute. Nonetheless, this highlights the significance of trust and reputation systems in the Bitcoin ecosystem. Accepting Bitcoin as payment might be risky business in nations where such transactions are outlawed. The advantages, though, like as lower transaction fees and worldwide reach, make it appealing to some. They think the benefits will exceed the dangers.

        It is customary for the parties to negotiate who will send the Bitcoin first: the buyer or the supplier of an item or service. For maximum security, the exchange should happen entirely at once. Even though trust is crucial, it is not the sole reason why the Lightning Network is so much quicker. Smart contracts protect payment channels, guaranteeing the safety of online financial dealings.

        It's important to keep in mind that data breaches are rather prevalent, and centralized exchanges do have access to consumer data. And therefore, even if it appears "safer," there are still dangers lurking beneath the surface.