Bitcoin Forum

Sometimes I think..
If now we have a fast network with ecology as prosperous as ETH and low tax
Why we need L2 network and ETH..It seems like a deficient network repairing itself constantly.
And POS is without justice that the strong will always be stronger.Blockchain need justice and every one is equal.

I want to see you mates' opinion.And if possibile,please recommend me the best cryptocurrency undervalued now thx. :-*

Low tax? tax is depend on where you live and your nationally, I think what you meant is low gas fee.

The discussion about ETH 2.0 has been existed since long time ago and it looks like Vitalik Buterin not really care since there's no altcoin overtake ETH's position yet. Proof Of Stake is centralized and it never been a good protocol due to centralized.

The best undervalued crypto right now is Bitcoin.

Perhaps this is what the OP meant, because we all know that ETH is used to be one of the fastest crypto before, unfortunately, if my memory serves me right, the start of the crypto kitties really put a lot of stress in the network of ETH and the fees started to go up.


True, it's been years of discussion, even prior to the pandemic, we have heard about ETH 2.0 and it's numerous delays and roadmap. But still the high ETH gas fees was not resolved. And on the other hand, it become more centralized that ever.


It is because we are still in the bear market. But once the market goes on a bull run, $100k or more is on the horizon for all of us.

It's because every project sees themselves as way better than the existing one. That's why even if there's already a project that shows all categories to be solving scalable issues, they won't honor that and they will take over until the problem will start to exist on them.

They will not look at it if they've been closed minded with the altcoins L1/L2 or any layer that they're thinking is at good condition at this moment.

But if they will realize it, this gets never over as there will be one to make up to cover the existing ones proclaiming they're better than the rest.

It's the believed of Vitalik that Ethereum will be more secure if they go POS. That was his statement 4 years ago, before this whole mess with the exorbitant gas fees. But looking back right now, it just make Ethereum worst and more centralized, so there is a trade off the Vitalik is referring to, security vs centralization.

So you will be the judge whether he achieved something or not.

As for the undervalued crypto, it's a guessing game right now. We could recommend something but it might not be big in the future.
The best approach is to really do your own research.

I too am not optimistic about the future of Ethereum as a utility token. They have been trying to fix problems for years yet the chain is still unusable with large fees and congested networks. Newer alternatives provided better performance and efficiency in low price. And with interoperability and use of similar languages to code, there's no lack of experience. We'd see ETH lag behind on coming bull.

technically eth can do zero fees and the team decided to burned the fees instead to decrased cirulation makes equilibrium with printing coin from staking it self,
and L2 coming to extend the network, if eth doing zero fees and sharding with 100k tps achieved, then there is no point for layer 2.
this decision makes community growth with layer 2 option so everyone happy

Well someone isnt agree on other things right? Not all opinion can be the same for every developer out there. Plus why can make only one if there is freedom to develop their own version. This is likely the case since every project developer out there wanted to point out flaws of others and feels like they can do much better. Since its a decentralized space, we could see more of this being combine and created a sophisticated network.

     -    Remember from POW that Ethereum has done amazing POs, which means that ETH can still return to POW if vitalik buterin wants to,.. but nevertheless, whatever ETH has now, we can still say that it has good potential that can be given that is a profit for those who believe in it when it comes to long-term holdings.

Because it is certain that when the value of Bitcoin increases, the value of Ethereum will also kick in the market, and the majority of the community here in the crypto space has seen this many times.

L2 is needed to solve the problems of the main network. The ETH network is experiencing scalability problems and still has high transaction prices, and the transaction speed itself is not as fast as L2 solutions. Until the ETH network solves the problem with fees and scalability, these problems will be solved by other networks, such as Arbitrum.

Perhaps ETH can show better growth than bitcoin. It is the king of all altcoins for a reason. ETH is the basis for a very large number of projects that are constantly growing and new ones appearing. I think that in the future, when the issue of cryptocurrency regulation will be solved, many corporations will be able to start using ETH. And then a new era can begin with a change of priorities.

Do you think Vitallik will move to options where he loose control? This is why they have POS system which is more of centralised base where if you have more stake you are main validator which is not good.The gas is also so high and for normal amount of transaction you have to afford high fees with it also but L2 is not in their mind untill personal profits are at priority.

ETherereum community will continue to hide under the radar of gas fees, they have dodge that question multiple times because of it sensitivity because they know that Ethereum chain can't scale without rewritting the code from beginning and doing that is just like abandoning the chain and starting a new one entirely, we have seen countless hardfork of in the past and there is no improvement and that makes me think that Ethereum cannot be scale without the interaction of sidechains as the layer 2 and this is why Ethereum has remain the same in development except for DEFI but seems to be more interesting on other chains.

Many people will claim that Ethereum chain is more secure but I think that was when it was still in proof of work, you can't tell me that Ethereum is secure when it is now centrealized more than ever, if one of the biggest validator should exit and commmit fraud, it will affect Ethereum price by 50% but they are all blind with the believe of commitment of previous people who held into proof of work. Because a dog is mad and silent doesn't mean it cannot bite the owner one day.

Lastly, asking for suggestion of alternative coins to ETH is like asking for a financial advice, that will lead you astray and the chance of making something great from there will be difficult. I will advice you do your own research like the way you mount up good effort in finding Ethereum chain, you will do well in other layers that are undervalue in the market, you can get a coingecko app on your own phone and see for the list of coins in the market.

I can give an example to make it easier for the OP to imagine how a tree grows, from childhood to adulthood, ETH in the altcoin section is like a stump, and then the trunk, branches, leaves, and fruits ,... similar to L2, products that operate in this crypto environment. So everything has to develop optimally from the basics, this market can be said to be as simple as that, not to mention bitcoin.

You meant gas fees not tax. Bitcoin has become the fastest one once it's introduced by satoshi nakamoto but the scalability problems were appearing once crypto got massive adoptions. The scalability problems were unpredicted before. Mass adoptions trigger it to appear.

L2 network as a solution in fixing the scalability problem faced by L1. I tell you that if blockchain still experimental things. It needs improvements with the goes of time. That's why the development of ethereum is still happening.

Just stick to the all of major coins. That will give you more guarantee for your money. I can't really suggest you which coins but you just need to DYOR.

Many investors keep mentioning that the problems with commissions did not disappear after the transition to PoS. But no one ever said that changing the consensus itself would fix the problem. The commission problem in the ETH network can be fixed by sharding and rollups.

The only thing that has changed since the consensus change is the level of centralization and censorship of transactions. The network has become much more censorable. In general, so far, except for promises, the ETH network does not show anything good, if we are talking about scalability and commissions.

L2 can take lots of stress from the mainnet. Imagne all that traffic happening in L2 these days to move into L1. It would break the system instantly and fees would be astronomical. I am counting in nfts, countless De-Fi protocols etc. And i understand where you are coming from and layer 1 will be way more efficient then ever before, but even when it scales, i wouldn't move all "unnecessary" traffic to L1. It's important that L1 stays as simple and light in code as possible so it doesn't break easily. Heavy lifting can happen in L2.

ETH is able to build a strong foundation and that’s why even if the network fee is expensive, many projects still eyeing to work under the ETH network for some reason. You can look for LTC for a cheaper network since its also a good coin the only problem is that, only few projects under this network and if you are looking for an ETH project right now, you have no other choice but to deal with those fees.

There's one inherent issue that both Bitcoin and ETH suffer and that's the inability to scale the networks when the demand for computing resources peaks. ETH thought it could solve this problem but it's an ongoing problem that is yet to be fixed (the blockchain trilemma). L2 are simply scaling ideas that are yet to make a huge statement.

For other altcoins, the best bet over the years has been getting newer tokens which are hyped as the next best thing and dump it when it has gotten to peak price.

if what you meant by tax is gas fee than I think thats not really low, it still takes quite amount of money for just executing simple swapping.
the point and reason why L2 exists is because they are just giving a way to take some of the transaction off the ethereum chain, process it outside and then give the information back in batches.
added with the fact that some L2 might have their own implementation that innovates a little.
overall I think L2 is quite good idea in mitigating too much traffic in ethereum, you will see its function once ethereum gets clogged again in upcoming bullish season.

Ethereum made a mess after starting the ERC20 project. It became bloated and they cannot control the sudden high transaction fees and the volume when it comes to sending them from one to another wallet.
I don't think POS is the solution to the problem but they still did it just to loosen that big issue on heavy traffic and expensive fees. What is next makes me wonder because there's just a tiny change after they did it.
Some say it will take time but I doubt that.
If you are looking for the best solution then go Bitcoin, if it's only the cheap fees and speed that you are looking for.
In regards to other projects, well XRP could also be one choice but only for that target.

From my own understanding, layer-2 networks are friends of Ethereum.
Let's admit, stability is the issue that we have on Ethereum, high transaction fees and not friendly for small fund users.
Here come Layer-2 networks, which solve the stability problem of Ethereum but on a separate network.

I am also curious what if later on or in the future, Ethereum will manage to solve the stability issue of it, do we still need layer-2 networks?

ETH become worse when the block is on ghost chain. we not sure when secure. ETH worse than old one. For security is low. why they remove RPC. since the RPC keep hacker or or third party attack it.

Ethereum's main network has some systemic issues that make users feel uncomfortable using its main network. Ethereum's main network problem is excessive transaction fees. Users generally avoid this network due to high transaction fees. If the version 2 of the Ethereum network can be successfully brought to the market, the popularity of this coin and the volume of transactions from this platform will increase a lot. The version 2 network should ensure more security of Ethereum along with reducing network fees. Ethereum can be considered as the second most popular coin in terms of popularity, so if they can improve their network more then this coin will increase in popularity.

Name one super successful coin who is PoS,yes you guessed it right,there is none.The reason being that by PoS only stake holders validate transactions which means that a bunch of gangs control everything that happens with the network and as OP said there is no justice at all,they can manipulate the coin to their desire and do whatever they like without coming into question,this means that since ETH moved to such realm,its success has been limited and it will be further limited with the passing of time,there is nothing good coming from a centralized way of managing things which PoS is.

the ERC20 is just implementation, whether its gonna be misused for spamming is up to the people honestly they are at no fault when it comes to their blockchain being bloated, but now that the fee has been relatively high it seems the amount of spam token are reducing by significant amount, after all it takes few hundred dollars sometimes to just deploy some token.
but regardless though, eventually they would find the solutions towards all these problems even though many are quite pessimistic in that regard.
i'd say, ethereum is taking the right path. the implementation of the side chains nowadays have been quite lifted some of the burden that ethereum have.
the current main reason why the gas fee still high is because the coin itself already valued so high.

ETH blockchain needs to solve fees for any means necessary. It ruins everything, buyer know that. Everything else is going on well ,like WEB3 and blockchain network altcoins.  :)

true this right. if become control it's too hard. what if some holder is control supply. then they put off sell with higher price. ETH today not like ETH old pow when the miners is make strong network. they solve issue with pos is hard to believe. cause more POS the POW popularity is decreased. the problem is network health is bad after effect.

No one said that moving to PoS should solve scalability and commissions. These problems should be solved in other ways, by the same sharding. The developers have mentioned this many times.


Bitcoin is as slow and expensive as ETH, if someone is interested in speed and cheapness of transactions, other networks solve similar problems, where transaction speed can be a few seconds and it will all cost a few cents or even less.

ETH? I mean it didn't started as pos, but it is pos right now and it's super successful which is at second place right now, it got there when it was pow, and then turned into pos, but it didn't drop from that place after it became pos neither. You do not have to invest into pos coins neither by the way, if you dislike them then you could always invest into something else.

However, if you really want to invest into something pos then ETH is the way to go and it is by far the best altcoin out there in the world without a doubt. I hope that it gets to a point where can see it grow better and get to be a lot higher. I know that it will take some time but that shouldn't really be an issue in the end and should not be considered.

Why we need L2? Have you tried using ETH last year or the year before.

Right now the fees are like 15gwei so it’s cheap to transfer ETH and a erc20 transfer is maybe $1.50. Not that cheap but also not crazy.

Back then you paid like $50 for a single erc20 transfer. It was unusable. Hence why L2 were created for people who do more active transactions. Now networks like Poly charge a fraction of a penny for an transaction on there.

Actually, not a big fan of ETH. The fees are not really low. It seems to me they just trying to rob the users after they switched to pos

the problem today still on Ghost chain. like after stake validation is gone. this similar with mining with orphaned. ETH need some problem sometimes before that become dust transaction or dust balance to throw up. My friend told me ETH still have that problem ghost chain stuff already report to dev and not respond. even they respond as not important issue. This maybe after they POW to POS have glitched code.

If you think that something is working unfairly, then you have not understood the system.
 L2 solutions allow you to scale the ethereum ecosystem, and ethereum makes it possible for its large owners to earn 7-10% of annual profit, which is very good for a large capital.

I still think that Layer 2 projects are doing a good job at what they intend to do but what they intend to do is not really a big deal at all. We need to realize that it's not going to be that easy, it's going to take some time it will definitely be something that will be a bit different and difficult in the end.

We should realize that it should be not that much of a big deal if we are not careful, and that is why it's important that we have an understanding of Layer 2 and what they achieve. I do not think that they achieve as much as people think they do, and there is nothing wrong with that, they do what they say they do and for those who want it, they at least provide it, better to have it and not want it than not have it and need it.

Ethereum is a very popular coin among altcoins. The market of Ethereum is very small now, if we want, we can invest in Ethereum. The price of Ethereum is expected to increase in a few months. But besides Ethereum, we also have other popular coins.  I can invest in them. The popularity of Ethereum is increasing day by day.

until now and maybe for quite a long time it is very difficult for any other altcoin to shift the popularity of ethereum. more and more ethereum is clearly in great demand because it is indeed a very potential coin, although it is true that there are still many altcoins which are also very good, will also provide benefits but maybe not as big as obtained from ethereum.
so don't miss the opportunity to continue buying when the price is indeed declining because sometimes opportunities can pass unexpectedly. I think you are right if you want to invest in ethereum and will not regret the actions you take.

I think ETH is a very strong crypto and many people use this its also show that its a very great but according to my experience is that if ETH solve there fee problem because there fee is so high so i easily say that definitely its make more strong..

How many times people complained about that? Ethereum developer already planned it but no ETA for when execution to solve the scalability will be implemented. I meant ethereum is a big scale of blockchain and it has been used by hunreds thousand people everyday. That's why the plan must be fully audited to make sure there will be no bug contained in the update and it will be in result the blockchain gets destroyed. Fixing the issue in ethereum development is not as simple as just saying it; it involves many tasks, including multiple audits to ensure a smooth and safe update. Im sure that if you are a developer and you will know how difficult it is. Ethereum is fully running blockchain.
It can't be updated easily like when you were patching the game online. It's related to the billions of money that are contained in the blockchain. That's why it needs time to make it happen.

I once made Ethereum my favorite token. It's fast and cheap. That was years ago. Now I think that ETH has a bad future. I mean with all the problems that exist today I think that can these problems be solved in the future??

Ethereum is one of the best coins in the market. Ethereum will always be in a good position compared to other ALT coins. Although Ethereum holds a good position among ALT coins, many avoid Ethereum because of its network problems. Ethereum is working on bringing their version 2 network to the market to address this network issue. I have been hearing for a long time that they will bring an Ethereum version to market that will be much more updated and easier to use than the current network. 

If Ethereum can make their network more secure and normalize the additional transaction fees, the popularity of this platform will increase much more than its current popularity. With security and convenience in mind for users, Ethereum version 2 should be brought to the network market very soon.

ETH 2.0 already rolled out last year so incase if you are not aware of it then better know it.

The concept is switching from Proof of Work to Proof of stake to address the scalability issue on their network for very long time but even after the switching the problem persist in exchange they lost their decentralization to great level which is not good for the future of ETH investors but the real utility of ETH is Dapps so if anyone wants an altcoin for profit making then it may not be the best choice.

why did eth make it so hard to stake?

I have used NEM / XYM and you can delegated stake from your wallet safely and easily.

Eth has no such equivalent

in my opinion Ethereum is the best altcoin for now and of course there is nothing to lose to do DCA Ethereum, moreover the blockchain from Ethereum is very popular and widely used, it's just that unfortunately the gas fees from Ethereum are very expensive, so that's what makes many new projects use blockchain from other projects (BSC, Polygon, SOL and etc.), but I still believe to investing in Ethereum for the long term and hopefully the gas fees from Ethereum will go down and can be cheap, so Ethereum will become more popular.

Indeed, the main problem that Ethereum has not been able to solve is the cost of the gas fee, which until now has always been an obstacle and seems difficult to suppress so it can go down. if later the gas fee will be able to go down? I doubt that if the price continues to increase, it is certain that the gas fee will also increase as well.But I totally agree with your opinion that ethereum is the king of altcoins and everyone is competing to invest in it, because no doubt those who hold it will enjoy huge profits when the market has increased.There's nothing wrong from now on to keep saving little by little so that, in time, it will accumulate quite a lot and not miss the profits that occur.

Have we ever thought that investing in ETH is getting more and more difficult every year, I even have a hard time seeing the growth of ETH every year, because the movements are not as intense as before, before it was so easy for ETH movements that made me interested in investing in ETH, it was precisely when ETH 2.0 launched, why isn't ETH like before and even more difficult, even shipping costs are sometimes more expensive, this is what makes everyone turn away from ETH and look for other coin solutions compared to holding ETH longer.

If you look at the statistics of other ecosystems now, then compared to Ethereum, these ecosystems look even worse.
https://defillama.com/
The largest liquidity in the Ethereum Ecosystem, but at the time of demand, fees in the Bitcoin ecosystem were also expensive. I trade without problems in the Polygon, Arbitrum, Optimism ecosystems and I am ready to pay these commissions in order to always own my coins.