Bitcoin Forum

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

In cryptocurrency, we have many ways to safely resist ay third party influence in what we do as long as we have the knowledge on how to go about it, bitcoin is not what we can just assume to be thesame as the way we treat other cryptocurrencies which are centralized, using bitcoin privately begin with the kind of wallet we use, many people will create a crypto account and take that as wallet from the exchanges they use, while some will rely on other people in helping them through what they would have learnt to know by themselves.

I feel like this isn't as bad as people make it out to be. First of all I could definitely do p2p if I want to, secondly the most important part is that you do not need exchanges when you are transacting with each other as well. Lets say that you are selling some apples, I pay you bitcoin and you give me apples and we go our separate ways, there was nobody in the middle. But if we are using fiat, in that case if we are doing credit card then there is tax and also banks that get a share, if we are using cash, we can still pay taxes, so in the end there is always a risk of someone else being in the middle, any credit card payment (which is almost all payments) go through banks, we rarely do not use banks, but with crypto we can at least not use middleman during transactions between each other.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not.

I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

No, I really don't think they have come to stay because this is still early days for Bitcoin and cryptocurrency technology. By the time Bitcoin has really dominated across a whole lot of countries in the world, and if by then a great deal of people in the world are using Bitcoin, then you can even easily sell or buy Bitcoin on the street. You know that fiat currencies have really been in existence for quite a long time now compared to Bitcoin that is just 14 years, so by the time Bitcoin has been around for a very long time too and has been adopted by many people, it will be easy, and most of the exchanges you are talking about will even go out of business because people will not really be dependent on them unless for just future trading and other sorts of trading features. Even by then, there might also have been a real P2P DEX where there would be great liquidity and every transaction would go smoothly.

Companies and businesses use a third party for efficiency and less hassle on their part, if you have a budget why not buy or use a service so you can work efficiently, for example with here is the salary, they are using third party banks so they can distribute those salaries to their employees account and does not need to wait for a whole day just to give them a paycheck, another is the system use of their company, instead, they are using a file cabinet system, they use a system related into their task so they have the safe data in their database.
In cryptocurrency the use of it is for the decentralized but most of the people using the exchange or other centralized platform because being comvinent to them.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

If and when Bitcoin becomes as popular as you say, exchanges will be like the banks of today.

One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Before, people dreamed of a financial system free from government and commercial grips. Now that bitcoin and crypto exist, these middlemen still exist. Because it is always easier said than done. I don't mind paying fees from these middlemen as long as my transactions are guaranteed secure.

Binance is becoming a giant company worth billions nowadays. I know there are a lot of haters on Binance but on the positive side, I am thankful for its peer-to-peer feature which is actually free. I can say that I saved thousands of dollars already otherwise me and my countrymen that are into crypto continued to pay 3% to 5% fees during cash-ins and cashouts.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

I definitely can't agree that you can't avoid middleman services in the digital age.
You don't need a middleman in the world of crypto, if you have knowledge about crypto and you know what you are doing.
Escrow services and multi-sig wallets are a thing in the crypto world. You don't necessarily need a centralized crypto exchange to serve as a middleman in your transactions. In fact, many crypto scams are done by centralized crypto exchange platforms.
Of course, many crypto noobs are going to use a middleman, because this gives them a false sense of security(and greater convenience).
The same thing applies to the fiat banking world. Many people think that using a bank will keep them safe from scams and a certain percentage of them usually get scammed by the bank.

No they didn't have come to stay. It's just a matter of time until we get rid of them all.
This is simply because the existence of these third parties is mainly related to the fact that exchanges are made with fiat money, whose identity cannot be hidden in any way. Peer-to-peer platforms can become completely decentralized if exchanges between users are carried out using crypto only, but users of these platforms are often in countries that do not support cryptocurrencies, so they are looking for local sellers so that they can use their local currencies to complete buying and selling operations. It means that the platform plays the role of the third party.
The problem with this third party is not that it gets a fee for the service, but rather it is the powers that it has, so it is able to possess the users’ private data, and this is what must be done to avoid it. I do not see any harm in the platforms providing third-party services without having the ability to track user data.

If we could only trust someone we don't see, then it's good to transact with them. But the reality is that there are many bad people out there. So if ever there's an opportunity to do bad things, they will usually do it especially when we talk about money. That's why transactions with no middleman is not a guarantee, there are lots of cases of hacking in P2P since you can't determine the identity of the person you are trading with. Since we are talking about crypto and we don't know who's really the person we are trading with, service fee of an intermediary is not a waste.

1. a middleman who manages everything (your money and your exchange processes) - your centralized exchange-wallet of choice,
2. a middleman who manages only the exchange process - instant exchanges
3. a middleman who only manages the single most problematic thing: dispute management - P2P exchanges with human escrow, escrow services
4. no middleman at all - P2P exchanges without human escrow, e.g. atomic swaps or Ethereum token exchanges, person-to-person exchange, and some exotic ways like the exchange of hard disk space to crypto (via platforms like Sia), and of course the exchange of goods/services for crypto directly.

I still don't understand your problem, why do you pay a fee of 3% to 5% every time you convert your bitcoins to cash? In addition to using P2P on binance, you can also trade P2P with trusted sellers you know. Or you can also use middleman and escrow, I don't think it will cost as much transaction fee as you are mentioning. I don't know if the transaction fee varies from region to region, but in my place, the transaction fee for the middleman is quite cheap. But using Binance is not bad, people hate it because they feel their privacy is violated.

3% to 5% is the usual gap in our local exchanges here compared to the real bitcoin price in the open market. Prior to Binance and other exchanges' p2p, we do not have many options to buy bitcoin and to cashout it out to our local currency. Meets-ups are a little popular as well to save some bucks but that didn't interest me. Huge trades are also happening in our biggest hotel casinos in the capital city but that's a plane away from me and even if it saves me a few thousand dollars I am also not interested in revealing myself.

At present, I do not have many updates as I am mostly on Binance. There are already trading exchanges but I heard the spreads are still around 1% to 3% which is still big if you're buying or selling significant amounts.

Many are also not fond of Binance due to its KYC but that's also far from our local exchanges here that keep on asking for documents like 2 to 3 times a year.

I think you are confusing here between a middleman and trust in a third party. All transfers that take place here are P2P, but there is trust in a third party.

So far, there is no real decentralized exchange between different blockchains, so we need to trust a third party.

In cryptocurrency, we have many ways to safely resist ay third party influence in what we do as long as we have the knowledge on how to go about it, bitcoin is not what we can just assume to be thesame as the way we treat other cryptocurrencies which are centralized, using bitcoin privately begin with the kind of wallet we use, many people will create a crypto account and take that as wallet from the exchanges they use, while some will rely on other people in helping them through what they would have learnt to know by themselves.

The point of crypto is to cut the middle man and make it so you have full agency over your finances. Although I get where you're coming from especially with the ever-growing number of scammers in the industry. At the end of the day it's not as if it's compulsory, but you gotta understand that the choice of exercising your power over your money comes with its caveats, which these intermediaries solve by making sure that when push comes to shove, the ones truly at fault will receive the sanction. This happens in regular P2P, I've had experiences where some people refrained from sending me my money, or have gone so far as to scam me by sending fake receipts. Binance catches wind of this and immediately resolves the transaction without me getting scammed. It's all about what matters the most to you really when you're transacting. Are you more worried about your identity? If so then go off grid and find a non-custodial conversion method. But if you're like 99% of the industry and you want to stay safe when you're transacting, then a little compromise in the name of security wouldn't be that much.

Exactly  mate I agree absolutely  with you and no matter how we paint it, the middle men which are the exchanges are in one way or the other inevitable and I've always seen several threads preaching against exchanges and after closer observations, I noticed that what they reay preach against is storing on those exchanges and not trading on them.
Over the years, exchanges have made transacting with bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general much more easier and even more secure through their escrow services and at the end, crypto is traded for fiat in cases where bitcoin  isn't accepted and one of the safest way to do this is through P2P on exchanges.

The concept of the middle man is an interesting topic in the study of economics, because of the argument about their relevance in business transactions. Some sees them as blessings, important intermediaries that makes transactions easy and convenient, while others sees than as an unavoidable evil, that you call to interferer, they reap and grow fat from other people's business dealings. Anyhow you look at it, whether you like them or not, they perform the important tasks of exchanges.

Because bitcoin P2P transactions are not one hundred percent reliable, especially when you're transacting with people that you don't know, using trusted exchanges becomes important because they guarantee peace of mind that most probably you won't be scammed.

You made a valid point, because if the middleman is compromised then it becomes a double scam, where  the victim becomes the overall loser. Therefore, one should not loose guard but be very cautious, in any financial dealings whether directly or using a middleman. This is why if someone must use middleman or exchanges as the case may be in bitcoin, to do any transaction, it is better to use the ones that have good track record. That is why reputable and trusted exchanges like Binance, who are very innovative, will stand the test of time, because trust is the key word in any financial matters.

I think that for a person who uses bitcoin the best thing to do is to make these exchanges by himself, without the need for help from a third party, because I consider that this would be a bit counterproductive for said individual. It is true that these platforms provide very striking features, but there is no way to avoid this type of method, for the simple fact that it might not be as safe as you think, although I am also clear that if you are not knowledgeable or skilled in doing it on your own, You could choose this other option yourself, that is, it could be taken as plan B. In any case, they are not bad, and as all services of this type have their risk, so it is best to use something with which you feel comfortable, and Of course, they have a decent reputation to avoid bad times, without lowering their guard, since a failure can exist at any moment... so, in conclusion, the use of an intermediary is based on choice and how the person feels with said platform.

We do prefer this way but are you that willing on making that p2p transactions with other people personally or would be going direct exchange online with other people? You are really that prone on getting scammed

plus we know that in speaking about convenience then these platforms or 3rd party do really give out that kind of services which gives out that good user experience which is something that less hassle.
Plus, not all platforms does require KYC (for now) on making out these kind of transactions which is related to fiat specially on having that conversion of your crypto to fiat, for some which before you could be
able to make out some p2p transactions which it would really be that requiring that kind of verification first before you can proceed.

Regulation and centralization is something that would really be inevitable in speaking about services that being offered and as long it is really that attached into some other centralized services
then it would be no shocking that they would really be touching up that regulation aspect.

Some businesses don't want to hold Bitcoin so they use intermediaries that receive Bitcoin for them and convert it to fiat. But not all businesses are like that, some don't mind keeping BTC, so they get they full decentralized experience.

The bigger problem that if you want to use Bitcoin, often you just can't, because you can't pay with it, so you have to sell it for fiat. In the past there was a lot of hope that soon mass adoption will come and it will change, but that "soon" never came so far.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Some businesses don't want to hold Bitcoin so they use intermediaries that receive Bitcoin for them and convert it to fiat. But not all businesses are like that, some don't mind keeping BTC, so they get they full decentralized experience.

The bigger problem that if you want to use Bitcoin, often you just can't, because you can't pay with it, so you have to sell it for fiat. In the past there was a lot of hope that soon mass adoption will come and it will change, but that "soon" never came so far.

The solution to eliminating the middleman, as you have stated is to have mass adoption of bitcoin, but that is yet to happen, so the exchange middleman still keeps his job. I think that to attain this mass adoption will not be easy because fiat currencies is the identities of countries, so if a single digital currency were to replace or reduce the power of local fiat, then they'll make sure that it doesn't happen. I commend El Salvador, for adopting bitcoin, as their currency, hoping that other nations will see the advantages of bitcoin and adopt it too. I believe that the adoption is attainable because I hear that in some countries that they have bitcoin ATM's, so maybe if every country can adopt it, then it's a way to go.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

I think that exchanges simply play a different role and thus are very likely to stay. A person can send BTC from one address to another, and there's zero need for an exchange in that situation. But if you're a trader, you need an exchange, and centralized exchanges might be convenient for that. If you want to buy or sell BTC for fiat, that also often requires an exchange, although it doesn't have to be a place like Binance where they store your money. I, for one, usually use local exchanges where you, for example, send BTC to a certain address from your wallet and get a transfer onto a bank account, so nobody is storing anyone else's funds in this situation.
Also, if we're talking about active use of Bitcoin for payments, a custodial wallet can be more convenient if it's widely used because that allows 'instant payments' and very low fees.
I think it should just be accepted that there are some use cases for intermediaries, and that they are not going to disappear.

In this case, it's not only the exchange that benefits, you also benefit from the services they offer, it's simpler that you and the exchange are equally profitable. You cannot ignore intermediaries in processing crypto assets, for example you want to convert Bitcoin to fiat and then withdraw it through conventional banks.
Their existence has made it easier for Crypto asset users in every way, intermediaries in business have helped many people with the services offered. Exchanges like Binance have made a lot of profit from the services they offer as intermediaries. It's only natural that they gain a lot because they have helped many users of Crypto assets in making various transactions.

The presence of cryptocurrencies is certainly the most profitable business place for exchange companies, even Binance is now getting bigger and becoming a company with a very large turnover, several top exchanges such as crypto.com, coinbase and so on continue to expand and promote in world's top events such as football, UFC and so on.

Well, trust is difficult to earn. And it's often advised not to give it to anybody. We don't easily trust. But does an exchange offer a solution to this? From a certain viewpoint, it actually is making it more problematic. It adds another layer of trust. Not only are we required to trust the person we're trading with, we're now also required to trust the exchange itself. So far, it is proven with sufficient evidence that exchanges cannot be trusted however huge they are.

One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

I don't either see the possibility of centralized exchanges going away soon because of the role that they play in the industry in terms of trading future contracts/leverage, They play the role that the forex brokers play in the forex industry, and taking them out of the picture regardless makes no sense, we have decentralized exchanges and self custody wallet, people can always run transaction without third-party.

The issue of trust is the strong factor that we struggle with on the P2P level. Yes bitcoin in it decentralized system eliminated this aspect of third party transaction if all things are equal but just that human selfish factor that breeds distrust. But a P2P is quite successful with bitcoin transaction if both parties eliminate that distrust. For example there are some P2P local groups were with or without the third party escrow service, some parties still transact successfully without distrust which is the original bitcoin decentralized system.

Perhaps the volume of funds might be a very good reason why the use of middle man is necessary in some cases and not in others.
I for one would like to have a third party involved if I am to move a huge fund across border, just so I am sure I don't fall in the trap of paying into the wrong address that may be occasioned by a bug or malware, when copying and pasting address from my clipboard.
An exchange that is good as an intermidiary has provided jobs to people and am sure the fees won't be as high as using the centralized fiat system if we were to compare also.

There some most cases where you may deal without involving the middle man, which we can call it escrow because that is the function of p2p trade on any exchange. They hold the funds in between and when is initiated and the receiver confirm his payment then the escrow holder releases for the sender, but from my little research over here I noticed there are some reputable members you can deal without having to go through escrow service for them to hold funds while the business transaction is settled. So partially people across this forum can deal with each others after haven developed trust.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

For example there are some P2P local groups were with or without the third party escrow service, some parties still transact successfully without distrust which is the original bitcoin decentralized system.

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

Unfortunately being a third-party company in a decentralized technology has become a very lucrative business, Satoshi envisioned an environment without the middleman man but the lack of trust between the two parties gives power to the middleman, the third-party system has been with us since time immemorial and unfortunately, it integrates in a decentralized exchange because of the lack of trust.

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

With this can we now say that bitcoin is not performing the original privacy goal or that it is the human factor that is frustrating it because like you pointed out, third party services in bitcoin is really growing bigger apart from the exchanges, people have taken up this like the brokers and they stand in the middle to execute the transaction like the escrow service. I think the P2P service is not really getting that attention because of trust.

Definitely the human factor that is mitigating against this original plan of bitcoin P2P transactions, that assures privacy between two parties. And this is as a result of mistrust, because nobody wants to be scammed, therefore it necessitates the importance and emergence of the middleman in transactions. I think that as long as there is no technology on ground yet to guard against being scammed in P2P transactions, then the exchanges and other forms of third parties will still be invited as intermediaries in bitcoin transactions. I really look forward to the day when we won't need any centralized exchanges to transact bitcoin, that was made to be decentralized.

With this can we now say that bitcoin is not performing the original privacy goal or that it is the human factor that is frustrating it because like you pointed out, third party services in bitcoin is really growing bigger apart from the exchanges, people have taken up this like the brokers and they stand in the middle to execute the transaction like the escrow service. I think the P2P service is not really getting that attention because of trust.

With this can we now say that bitcoin is not performing the original privacy goal or that it is the human factor that is frustrating it because like you pointed out, third party services in bitcoin is really growing bigger apart from the exchanges, people have taken up this like the brokers and they stand in the middle to execute the transaction like the escrow service. I think the P2P service is not really getting that attention because of trust.

No choice but to use the unavoidable middle man, the exchange companies.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Unfortunately being a third-party company in a decentralized technology has become a very lucrative business, Satoshi envisioned an environment without the middleman man but the lack of trust between the two parties gives power to the middleman, the third-party system has been with us since time immemorial and unfortunately, it integrates in a decentralized exchange because of the lack of trust.

Honestly, I have more numbers of trades using a middleman than using a peer-to-peer I'm sure all of us here third parties will always be with us, we are so used to it, It applies in many industries it applies in Cryptocurrency.

I believe that most business owners will prefer to transact money transfers with their customers directly without using an exchange, that will be a third party, and you'll have to pay this third party or middle man money for his services, whether you like it or not. I also believe that nothing beats transacting money directly with your clients or customers, no third party whatsoever. One of the reasons why I like bitcoin is that it's decentralized, and you can do a P2P transaction with another bitcoin holder without any exchange being involved. But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Indeed, you cannot deny the middleman's importance when dealing with an anonymous person on the internet. Reputation is a key factor there. If you can build a solid online reputation, you will likely get the payment or product first. This applies only to public forums like BitcoinTalk and hack forums. Still, this forum has middleman services to eliminate the possibility of scams.

The fact is, forum middlemen do not ask for your private information like your Real name, Identity or your electricity bills. But when you deal with some specific platforms like Binance and other centralized platforms, you compromise your private information.

Indeed, you cannot deny the middleman's importance when dealing with an anonymous person on the internet. Reputation is a key factor there. If you can build a solid online reputation, you will likely get the payment or product first. This applies only to public forums like BitcoinTalk and hack forums. Still, this forum has middleman services to eliminate the possibility of scams.

The fact is, forum middlemen do not ask for your private information like your Real name, Identity or your electricity bills. But when you deal with some specific platforms like Binance and other centralized platforms, you compromise your private information.

But for convenience, transparency and scams that are associated with P2P, you don't have much choice but to patronize the services of these exchanges.

You can not eliminate the middle man in businesses, especially in this digital age, be it fiat or cryptocurrencies, because they have come to stay. Big exchanges like Binance, are cashing in on being the middle man in businesses, an unavoidable indirect business associates, in your face, waiting for you to go through them.

Correct, on this forum the middleman only cares about being a middleman and as such their existence is not only tolerated but encouraged if you are making a transaction with an user you have never dealt before, however the middlemen that we find on the fiat system wants to know every single thing they can about you, and not only this robs you from your privacy, it also puts you at risk as those middlemen keep that information forever and they only need to be hacked once in order for your information to end up on the black markets.

Second of all, as I was saying above, people lose their personal information by going willingly through a very dangerous process, named KYC. The exchanges don't care about their clients nor about their personal information. They only want to earn more money. They can be hacked by hackers which, besides stealing money, also steal the users' personal information, this being a very precious resource, which can be turned into even more money, especially when it is sold on Dark Net. A CNBC article describes how the hackers sell personal information for 1$ a piece (this information consisting, among others, in physical addresses of the users, their credit / debit cards, copies of their IDs etc.): Hackers are selling your data on the ‘dark web’... for only $1 (https://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/23/hackers-are-selling-your-data-on-the-dark-web-for-1.html). A notorious similar case from the forum is the case of the Romanian bekli23 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5258021.0), which, while pretending he is decrypting old BTC wallets, he was also asking users to send him photos with them while holding their IDs and other bills in hand. Obviously, he was not decrypting any wallet. But he was trying to collect personal information, most likely, for selling it on Dark Net, for the ridiculous price of 1$ per piece!

In some cases, the exchanges are the ones selling customers' personal information! And I'm not talking about small, shady exchanges, but about the big ones. Coinbase is one of the biggest exchanges and yet it was caught selling clients' personal data! A 2019 article, Coinbase Admits Its Former Data Provider Sold Client Data (https://www.financemagnates.com/cryptocurrency/news/coinbase-admits-its-former-data-provider-sold-client-data/), describes how Christine Sandler, one of the exchange's executives, admitted the company sold the users' personal information. Having this example, do you think that other exchanges don't do the same thing? Just they weren't caught yet?

Indeed, you cannot deny the middleman's importance when dealing with an anonymous person on the internet. Reputation is a key factor there. If you can build a solid online reputation, you will likely get the payment or product first. This applies only to public forums like BitcoinTalk and hack forums. Still, this forum has middleman services to eliminate the possibility of scams.

The fact is, forum middlemen do not ask for your private information like your Real name, Identity or your electricity bills. But when you deal with some specific platforms like Binance and other centralized platforms, you compromise your private information.

Certain cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin are able to eliminate middleman technically, whereas in this case it is a user's need to adjust to business preferences, especially because cryptocurrencies must really pay attention to the level of trust of the second party.
As innovation develops in the crypto industry, the role of third parties can also be built into code which is usually called a smartcontract, although some of these sometimes have serious vulnerabilities that cause greater losses.

Theoretically, you can eliminate the middleman; however, in practice, it's not as easy as it sounds. Even P2P transactions require some sort of middleman; how are you going to pay for the bitcoin you're purchasing? Unless we're talking about a physical transaction with cash in hand, which isn't something that can be deemed particularly safe, I don't know about others, but this whole decentralized movement sounds too inconvenient to me, especially if you're new to cryptocurrencies and trying to make your first purchase. For us, who already hold some coins, the transition is a lot easier.

Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, exchanges are convenient and are used by a large percentage of the cryprocurrency community.

I agree with you. Moreover, though, it is best to remember that there are different system that different middlemen use. I remember when I hired a middleman for a quick transaction and they never asked me to provide any personal information, everything was strictly about the transaction and anonymity that both the seller and I wants to maintain. On the other hand, I have heard some stories wherein their middleman asked for some private information that made me reluctant to proceed with the transaction but it turns out it was not a scam and the middleman was only following a system they've been practicing for long.

Even P2P transactions require some sort of middleman; how are you going to pay for the bitcoin you're purchasing?

Not necessarily have to stay away and stop using them because for several months I was using P2P services and have not encountered any problem (maybe now) so I don't have a reason to decline their services. For at least that we are sure that was the right person that we are transacting with, it was safe. But we are doubtful, of course, why we should continue the transactions. It is in our hands to decide if this is safe or not.
Yeah, paying some fees for the middleman is not a big deal especially if we assure that the transaction is safe, much more if involves huge amounts.

To be honest, I also prefer using intermediary services rather than p2p exchanges without intermediaries, I don't feel safe with p2p trading, especially with internet exchanges. Even when dealing with large amounts of money outside, I even ask for an intermediary when trading because any risk can happen to us. Because when it comes to money, everyone's greed arises and they are willing to do anything to get it. So the middleman is really indispensable, IMO.

Using P2P cryptocurrency platforms users can buy sell and exchange cryptocurrencies directly with other users without the need for a broker or other intermediary. Transactions are performed directly between two parties and the P2P platform acts only as a facilitator. But it is important to note that P2P transactions can be risky as there are no intermediaries to ensure the security of transactions. Therefore it is important to take security precautions when using P2P cryptocurrency platforms, such as checking the reputation of the seller or buyer before making a transaction so as not to fall into the trap of fraud. Cryptocurrency P2P can be more difficult to use as it requires a bit more technical knowledge to trade safely.

Not necessarily have to stay away and stop using them because for several months I was using P2P services and have not encountered any problem (maybe now) so I don't have a reason to decline their services. For at least that we are sure that was the right person that we are transacting with, it was safe. But we are doubtful, of course, why we should continue the transactions. It is in our hands to decide if this is safe or not.
Yeah, paying some fees for the middleman is not a big deal especially if we assure that the transaction is safe, much more if involves huge amounts.