Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin:

93% premine to anyone born today.

100% premine to anyone born in 2140.

Causes toxic waste material (even hal said this).

Waste of energy that could be used to solve cancer or feed people (hal said this).

1 person can be 50% of the network.

Fiat can buy all the miners and coins, Central bankers still win.

People have been killed for it and tortured (sure this happens with fiat but the blood is on your hands now).

Network fee only goes back to miners this leaves no funding for roads, garbage, schools, medicare or disabled veterans.

1-3 hour transactions

high network fee cost more than the coffee you are buying

Only 1 miner wins in the end then it becomes centralized, he can push all the other miners out. This will be the FED.
this simulation proves it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41RW6bxpM4

That 7% will take ages to mine, 2140 is still 120 years ahead of us. You will be reborn twice, don't worry about that in this life.
What toxic waste Bitcoin produce? If you mean heat from Bitcoin Mining, you should be aware of Renewable Energy which is being used by majority of the Bitcoin Mining Operators.
1 person will never be able to get 51% access to the network. When you purchase, price goes high.

To attack the network, you need 51% and that will be 9.9246 Million Bitcoin which is worth 285828.48 Million USD.
Why will Bitcoin's Mining Fee go towards your garbage or schools? Wtf.

From a miner themselves

https://youtu.be/K8kua5B5K3I?t=283

"The rest is waste materials" Those power supplies are toxic waste materials.

Bitcoin has never been perfect and there will always be drawbacks, but what you seemingly want is something that can only come out in a perfect world where every single entity is moral/ethical and every circumstance is ideal. Good luck with that.

Bitcoin is just a consumer of electricity and I don't think that the problem is bitcoin but the producers of those electricity. Also, we worry too much the environmental impact of bitcoin when there's more pressing issues that's more impactful than the impact of bitcoin to the environment like coal produced electricity, stripmining, no innovation in battery industries, destruction of nuclear power plants and reliance on oil for fuel. The wasted electricity is the problem of the energy sector, they should have a solution to that problem a long time ago not bitcoin. 51% attack is difficult to do because there are a lot of people that's not connected to each other so it's difficult to gather nodes to be able to do that, not to mention that it's economically impractical for someone to do that anyways.

Some on your list may be true, some may be not. But have you also made a list of fiat negatives? Bitcoin is an alternative. You might want to take a closer look at the main option in order to have a fairer and more balanced view. Only then could you pass the final verdict and set aside Bitcoin. You might actually end up with a much longer list. There's a reason why fiat badly needs to have an alternative.

Also, Newton's third law of motion is true not just in physics but in other aspects of our existence as well. Every time we eat, we contribute to the world's degradation. Shall we stop eating?

When there's a miner or group have a lot miners and own more than 50% mining hashrate, it doesn't mean the miner can control Bitcoin! this already been discussed many times and it's different with 51% attack.

Surely mining 7% Bitcoin for 117 years do consume a lot energy, but it's mean the price of Bitcoin should be very high because no one will spend money if it's not profitable anymore.

Fiat can buy all miners, why until now they're not do it?
Fiat can buy all coins, not entirely true because not every holders want to sell their coins.

Do other industries generate scrap or waste? Tell me, any industry that is not harmful to the environment? All is to serve human needs, serve human desires. The smartphones and laptops that you are using are also creating certain pollution to our environment. Why don't I see anyone talking about them? Why always bitcoin? Everything has its pros and cons and nothing is perfect, my friend.

Just because you hate bitcoin, you envy its success and you always feel its bad, but for others, its really useful and without any downside.

Don't be fooled by the YouTube people because most of them saying all these craps and against bitcoin and this isn't something new. It is left for you to believe or not and come up with something from your head instead of saying what you heard from other persons. Bitcoin has advantage than its disadvantage which has made it the best assest to invest on due to its volatile nature. And you told you that government can buy all the bitcoin when they don't even know how many people have bitcoin in their wallets. Mind you not everyone will sell to the government because bitcoin is better than their fucking fiat currency that depreciates. I will rather keep my bitcoin than exchange it for fiat. How will the government buy the bitcoin that would be mined in 120 years by then the government that planned such would have died,so this can't be possible.

I think you are trolling the shit out of this thread....  ::)

Bitcoin mining use less energy than most Fiat financial systems out there, but the math to calculate it, ignore most of the actual energy that are used. (Example : How much energy are used to create cash & coins through mining activities and also the minting process / How much pollution and energy are used to transport cash in trucks all over the world)

Where are you getting the 1 to 3 hour transactions from? (Old Legacy Bitcoin or the Lightning Network with it's near instant transactions?)

You are grabbing at straws to find something bad to say about Bitcoin, but there are people like us that can spot that immediately.  ;D

If bitcoin is negative, it is because we have a belief that life is not perfect. We feel bitcoin has become the best of fiat so we continue to maintain that.
If on fiat you can buy everything, keep it up and we can only wish you luck. But don't be surprised when people who believe bitcoin is the best can build a luxurious house for their child someday with just a few bitcoins.

Mining bitcoin will never be the same as mining gold and other mining that has the potential to damage the survival of the world which cannot be enjoyed beautifully by tens of generations for hundreds of years as we feel today.

Even though i do not agree with most of the things you pointed out, i will still go ahead to (instead of arguing) say that nothing made or invented by man is perfect, and bitcoin included, bitcoin is not perfect but we still love it, and the love was or is not born of out Bitcoin's imperfection but based on the brighter side of it, nothing is perfect in this world even human beings, so why has bitcoin's imperfection become such a problem?, the most important thing here is that, bitcoin solves more problems than it creates, that is the importance in everything that is good,.

And talking about how much energy that is burnt in the process of mining bitcoin, the game industry consumes far more energy than what mining bitcoin consumes, why has everybody focused on bitcoin instead ?

Are you kidding me? It's like putting the blame on gold miners for all the people, who got tortured and killed because they own gold.
We know that Bitcoin isn't perfect. There's always a problem, but the problems will be solved. BTC mining becomes more and more environmental friendly.
The "51% attack" argument is BS(it has been proven to be BS multiple times on the forum). The idea that someone could simply buy all the BTC and all BTC miners is complete BS.


You know that BTC miners are just like any other business and they are supposed to pay taxes as well. Right?

So is the power supply in the device that you are typing this post (and my post, and the server that runs this website, and your name server, and your ISP, and Cloudflare, and... oh wait  :-[)

That is not specifically a Bitcoin problem. That is a problem with technology in general.


Do you think the central bankers will waste all of their money to:

1. Buy all of the ASICs from all of the miners (coins do not count because you cannot manipulate blocks using coins in proof of work).
2. Buy up as many warehouses as necessary to host them with proper heating and cooling (billions more dollars)
2. Replicate 14 years worth of block history which will likely cost even more billions of dollars to electricity companies?

If they do that, then it will just as well be the central bankers who bankrupt themselves.


To be fair, a lot of gold miners have actually exploited slave labor to extract the gold for them. But nobody has ever tortured another to mine bitcoins for them.

Is this unique to Bitcoin alone?

If you check some other industries youll note that the scraps that comes out as a result of bitcoin mining is relatively small compared to what comes out of them. Those power supply unit could be recycled into something else since they are metallic and as for the heat we have seen it before where miners constructed a system that uses the heat generated by their mining machines to do other stuffs like heating water etc.


What about fiat?
Owning bitcoin gives you more privacy than owning fiat, in fiat a worker at the baking section could be able to look into your profile and know how much you have inside your account and leak it to the public but when you own bitcoin you can have all the privacy that you seek, that is unless you decide to tell others that you deal in bitcoin. There’s no way for others to look into your system when you’re into bitcoin but that cannot be said for fiat.

Every item in the world has both positive and negative features. Nothing is perfect. So yes what we can do is just measure the positive and negative aspects and then use those item. Bitcoins do have some negative features, but the things that you have mentioned in the OP, I am not fully satisfied with those. We should see what positive features Bitcoins has, and how to get benefited by it. Bitcoins decentralised and anonymity feature is not doubt the USP for which people are ready to overlook any disadvantages Bitcoins have.

This is a silly comparison, but likewise, banking systems consume a lot of electricity, television and entertainment tools. Did you know that the cup of coffee that you drink may have children in Africa working to be able to buy it, or even solar energy? There are thousands of stories in lithium mines, and the list goes on.
The average transaction time is not 1-3 hour transactions and you can do instant transfers with the Lightning Network.

If electricity generated by renewable energies becomes very cheap, Bitcoin mining will be 100% renewable energy.

This something impossible and I knowing too well that one can't sleep a day without food.
Sometimes I wonder how people do their analysis without also considering other factors and if there were no bitcoin, was there anything that could serve as an alternatives currencies that would relief us from bank drama I don't think then if there were something like that and it's good to have bitcoin, but whatever they case may be op should show look other negative side of banking system, oil & Gas industry as well and what could he factor out from those companies.

TBH personally I'm taking positives from this ↓


Isnt that a massive reason for a celebration? the fact that Bitcoin is and will be such
a success story that miners managed to mine all 21,000,000 coins, because at the start
that number would probably have been daunting enough.

For all other points ↓


The same can be said for ALMOST EVERYTHING, I'll bet the OP is religious, millions of people
have suffered or been tortured for their beliefs of non beliefs.

1 to 3 hours transaction times, yes but they can take a lot quicker too. If you are in a hurry,
psy more if its not urgent pay less and sit back and relax.

TBH this thread is a two way street, the IP isnt convincing us of any of his posts likewise
I doubt the OP will be re-educated.

For reference, OP keep saying similar statement on multiple threads
only 7% of supply is halving  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5463425.msg62702055#msg62702055)
Bitcoin is 93% mined today, will the future be born into 100% premine like fiat (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5463199.msg62693761#msg62693761)
So when bitcoin version 2 satoshi? (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5452871.msg62250354#msg62250354)

and some more. I would suggest reader on this thread to ignore OP since it seems he only make very few reply before creating new similar thread.


Did Hal really said that?

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png
Source: https://xkcd.com/285 (https://xkcd.com/285)

We're living in a world where cash is still the king and we're aware of that. And everything can be bought by fiat and that's a reality that you've said that. But about central bankers gonna win? I guess so but who knows until most of them starts to file for bankruptcy when people hold their own money with their own personal banks(not banks but wallets).

Thanks man.

It seems that he's got his own preference that he wants to push to everyone despite of it being not really going to make sense upon reading.

Premine percentages? How naive of you to think that way! Its a simple way to think about math. Regarding Hal's words about energy, its dishonest to say that Bitcoin's use of energy is a waste while ignoring how much energy the current banking system and gold mining use.

Can one person be half of the network? Nonsense. Bitcoin is not controlled by a single company because it is not centralized. As for Central Bankers, they might buy miners and coins, but the idea behind Bitcoin and the fact that it is decentralized are meant to stop this from happening.

Bitcoin-related deaths? Lets not forget that paper currencies have been used for hundreds of years to pay for wars, genocides, and other terrible things. And how short-sighted to not have network fees pay for public things. Bitcoin encourages people to be financially independent and take care of themselves.

Transactions and fees? Technology moves forward. When money is not controlled by a few people, these worries will go away. The biggest problem for a miner? Way too much! Miners would have no reason to hurt the environment that makes them money.

Bitcoin, of course, is not perfect and has some features that should be taken into account, but OP's arguments about the negative aspects of bitcoin look ridiculous.

Especially, what is not easy to call an adequate argument:
I don’t even want to comment on this, and reasonable people will understand without it.

Where did you see this? In principle, if the mempool is too full, some delays are possible, but in general, transactions in the bitcoin network are quite fast. Transactions can take 1-3 hours at too low commission values and if you are not greedy, then it takes less time.

Some points you have made here are just not making any sense to me.
What exactly does Bitcoin mining fee has to do with garbage, roads and the rest of them? It doesn't make any sense.
As for the mining, there are renewable energy sources being used now by most of the miners, so that's less of an issue to worry about. And when it comes to the issue with energy thing, there are other things that are worst than Bitcoin mining and even does more damage to our environment, but nobody wants to talk about those things.

The reality is that bitcoin's impact on the environment must be placed in the overall context of the energy industry and issues related to energy production and use. Optimizing power consumption and finding eco-friendly solutions is not only the responsibility of bitcoin but the entire industry.

And a 51% attack is a complex and economically impractical task, especially in a distributed network like bitcoin. This proves that bitcoin has been carefully designed to protect the integrity of the network and avoid potential risks.

if you say that bitcoin is a waste of energy and should be used for something better, you should ask your government what they have been doing so far that they don't think about developing more energy for their citizens. You shouldn't blame miners for the energy used, because they pay for it.


why are you passing that on to the bitcoin community? it has nothing to do with that. you should leave that to the government because that's their business and not the bitcoin community's business.


actually it depends on the network and fees that you spend. if you make a transaction now, surely it will be processed quickly with low fees.

what you are saying doesn't make any sense at all. you say negative things with bitcoin which has nothing to do with bitcoin. There are some negatives with bitcoin, but there are a lot more positives about it which makes it far better than fiat and banking which is centralized and manipulative.

I strongly believe that this is just out of aggression and it doesn’t mean anything at all. If Bitcoin was so much negative then why there is war for its existence? Since Bitcoin has entered the realm everyone is trying to be smarter and making their own businesses on its principles. Big financial institutes, crypto related banks, various brokerage firms everyone is using Bitcoin to become one of world leading entities in the domain.

Mining rewards, miners, users everyone is already happy. Miners are getting rewards with the technology at hands and with lowest possible ROI using various techniques. Moreover, bitcoins mining process is smartly designed so that block reward is halving and at the same time compensation is happening because of the increase Bitcoin prices.

I think everything is well settled. Bitcoin will overpower many centralised financial institutes. Just wait and watch.

The predecessor of these people have the chance to mine Bitcoin, don't blame Bitcoin for the opportunity missed by the parents and grand parents of these children.


Any industry that does not produce toxic waste materials?  Why are you so absorbed on pointing this thing on Bitcoin?  Btw, any link to support the statement?


Same here can give the link about this?

Any possible instance that this even will happen? Can you show the the path on how this thing will happen?


Sure central bankers have all the funds needed to buy miners and coins, ever wonder why they did not do this until now?


what?

Bitcoin is a technology and not a charity.  I think it has been established as that.


You always have the option to change the payment system.  Bitcoin is not fixed all the problem solutions, the good thing about it is its progress and development that slowly moving to faster transaction confirmation and easier usage.

You can also ask him to post the positives of Bitcoin. I am sure there are lots of it which can negate its negatives. Fiat might have some positives too but I think its negative is much more than it. That is the reason why Bitcoin is born to supply it.

If only the banks or governments are going to be asked, I think that fiat is already enough for them. For them it is already a perfect creation and there is no need for an alternative such as Bitcoin. They think that an alternative currency will only get the demand that their fiat is supposed to be getting or worse their fiat will be overcome by it. It's only funny that they didn't saw Bitcoin coming and it's now too late for them to stop it.

Stability with the market vaalue is Fiat's best feature simply because it promotes equality with the price of market goods. Next is centtalization and recognition to most of the countries. Unlike with Bitcoin and other crypto which has its limitation in particular with adoption and wide usage of this technology. Bitcoin will be on a bigger stage and will be acknowledge by more people in the future but to those who are thinking that it might be the main mode of payment in every transaction then that's so far from the reality. There a higher tendency for these two systems of digital currency are being pick upon by people but co-existence is more likely to happen despite of any negative or positive side.

We were all newbies once, but I sure do wish that we could somehow make it harder for them to post crap like this.

Firstly, the supply system is regulated as you might know, so 93% of mined coins doesn't really make a difference. Toxic waste? Do you know how small that is compared to big companies?
How do you exactly feed or cure people with energy? Hypothetical nonsense isn't really accountable - "You could of do this instead of that".

Other nonsense points aside,

Why the hell would the fees go for those causes? Your fiat money will get taxed for this, no need to get Bitcoin into that.
There are some delays sometimes, but most of the time if you give a decent fee, it will be processed rather quick. Your bank also charges provision for your transactions, nothing is free. I doubt there are many people buying coffee with Bitcoin, but even if they do, I doubt that the fee will be bigger than the product/service bought.

As you are a hater, I would suggest going elsewhere to spread nonsense against Bitcoin since you will just be defeated by arguments here. It wont get you anywhere.

mined =/= premined


How so? Why am I to blame for other person hurting someone for their bitcoins? Am I to blame for fiat-related crimes as well because I use fiat? Or does it only work for Bitcoin?

Some of these are incredibly funny. One person can have %50 of the mining power is technically true, I would love to see someone try though lol. We are talking about tens of billions of dollars worth of investment for a small uptick, which should be done in a way that nobody else would ever do anything about it at the same time, and no blockchain change would have to happen to prevent you at the same time. Have you been around when we moved from legacy to segwit? Because that's literally what we did and suddenly miners lost their power. The energy that can be used for cancer research? Aviation is the biggest cause of cancer by that logic lol. Lets be real, some of these are "technically true" but in reality not so much.

making it sound as if bitcoin's the only cryptocurrency there is, and as if the remaining 7% is going to be mined willy-nilly. It's going to take another 120 years before you fully mine the bitcoin supply, and even if that happens it doesn't mean that the whole structure of bitcoin will fall down. Mining is one of its ventures but there are a plethora of ways for people to make money here. I'd argue that soon as the total supply's mined completely it could even urge a global movement of using bitcoin as a bona fide currency, meaning the adoption that some people are looking for's coming to fruition.

Plus the transaction times you're sad about is solved by layer-2 issues. Every bad thing you throw at bitcoin, a solution or a workaround was made for it already.

So many loads of bullshit here but this one caught my attention.
What the hell do you mean by this? How do you want someone's money to go to schools, garbage, and Medicare? Is that how the charity works?
Imagine saying people's part of people's salary should compulsorily go to charity. That's some bullshit.
The miners work for every penny they get so whatever money they get is earned.

Most of these points are not valid, some of them are more about mining than Bitcoin per se. Also, Bitcoin is not a currency and it wasn't meant to be instant or cheap. LN can be used to buy coffee and for similar instant transactions.

Some "facts" are outright BS, like this one: Only 1 miner wins in the end then it becomes centralized, he can push all the other miners out. This will be the FED.
this simulation proves it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q41RW6bxpM4

I'm sure in 2140 you can start a new thread complaining how every single bitcoin has been mined.

Oh, sure, because gold extraction, just to make an example, doesn't ruin entire ecosystems, right?

The energy, which is electricity, can be used to feed people? How?

And yet nobody has done it.

Now? Because now criminals stopped caring about cash, gold, diamonds, etc? Now everything is about bitcoin?

Very funny thread.

If we are to consider today and tomorrow, then we can say that fiat is stable. But we, humans, plan much ahead. We consider our future in years. Fiat, in this sense, is not really a stable way to store value. If we are saving fiat for our children's college education, for example, we will realize how unstable this money is. It only took a little more than a decade for the minimum public transportation fare in my locality to grow 140%. This isn't stability.

Anyway, I agree that coexistence is much more likely than Bitcoin taking over fiat. But then I'm not losing hope that when the time comes when people would finally demand that money be separated from state, Bitcoin would be the preferred choice.

Fiat is stable between today and tomorrow but after a while, few years, several decades, we see fiat currency loses its purchasing power. It is less terrible with fiat currencies at big nations with better inflation controls and stronger economies. Unfortunately, it is more terrible at nations with weaker, unhealthier economies and hyper inflationary policies from governments that care more about their benefits than their citizens' benefits.

As investors, we care more about profit, growth of our capital and we tend to accept risk to achieve profit. Whether profit we get in fiat value worth anything, it is another story and depends on each national central bank and their fiat currency.

It wouldn't even make any sense.
- Central bankers decide to buy all the bitcoins.
- Every hodler gets filthy rich in the process.
- Central bankers now hold all the supply, but since no one is buying/using it, it becomes worthless.
- Bitcoiners either buy it back for pennies or just fork a new version.

That's one sh*tty attack vector if you ask me.

I may not say that bitcoin is 100% the perfect solution but what it offers us today is the exact solution to the financial and economical challenges we are all facing with the government, so when you're talking about negative aspect i may not argue much because it will surely exist no matter how the little or small it may appear, the advantage is what we look on to and embrace the decentralization for our own personal interest, the solution is far better than any form of negative influence others may thought about with bitcoin adoption.

How is this specific to PoW, and would not apply to every other industry that uses electricity?

And at an even more relevant note, what other industry would work just as well as before when you scale its electricity supply down to 50%? 1%? 0,1%?

Your thread is a useless one and you know that yourself. First of all, I should clarify one thing for you that it's literally impossible for a single person to control 51% of the network and even 50% of the network. No one is rich enough to control that much of the network not even a whole country can control that much of the network in current times.

You're totally wrong the Bitcoin transactions are quite fast and smooth and the shortest time a transaction takes is just 10 minutes. Sometimes the transactions takes 30 minutes and that's still okay because the transactions made using Bitcoin are safe and no other payment method is close to the safety that Bitcoin transactions provide.

You're wrong high network fee costs more than a whole roasted chicken but only during the times when network is congested. On regular times the transaction fee is quite low and the best thing about it is that even if you make a transaction of $10000000 to a single address the fee will remain the same.

Bitcoin doesn't creates any kind of toxic wastes because it's totally digital in nature. The pollution caused is due to the mining equipment's or due to heat that they produce. The Bitcoin is totally pollution-less and I must say that most of the miners are shifting towards green and renewable energy resources which doesn't deplete anything in a adverse way.

All your arguments have nothing to do with Bitcoin itself. But I will try to go through your list with solutions, point by point.

1. A capped supply is a good thing, unless you prefer inflation because the supply keeps being artificially pumped.

2. Bitcoin does not cause toxic waste. Miners do. But so do personal computers and phones. That's not a Bitcoin problem.

3. Energy problems are rooted in how we produce energy. Blaming the consumers in how they use energy is backwards thinking.

4. 1 person could theoretically own 50% of the network. But thanks to POW, that's not realistic.

5. You can buy miners with BTC.

6. Network fees are not that high. See lightning network.

You don't understand what a premined coin is. Premine means part of the coin is mined, or put away, before coin's launch, so that the community cannot have access, unless that part of the supply is released by the person controlling it. In case of bitcoin the supply is distributed among users with the help of a free market. There was and there will be no premine, regardless of when you are born.


When it comes to buying all the bitcoin, only roughly 2 million is available for sale on exchanges. In theory countries could buy it all out with printed money, but they'd be able to buy only as much as there is for sale. After buying 50% of supply on exchanges the price would skyrocket to some crazy prices because people would start testing them out, opening trades for 1M USD, then 2, 5, and so on. If they saw their 5M sales complete, they'd set the next one for 10 and so on. Which country would be able to print so much money that they'd be buying bitcoin at the price of $10M a coin?

Supply and demand have to stay balanced. If someone crates increasing demand, the market price is going to increase exponentially into infinite numbers, meaning that after all coins on exchanges are bought out, the sky is the limit as to what people would want for their coins.

Yes, the creation of new bitcoins carries a similar trail described above.
But did gold or diamond mining bring more positivity? A huge amount of blood was shed for these valuable resources, in the same way it can be argued that the effort to extract gold bullion could have been spent on extracting food or building houses for the poor. But why ? The world is full of people who are controlled not by altruism but by greed and greed for profit. And that's fine.

Let's talk about dollars and any fiat. They are printed, is this a completely eco-friendly production? In addition to electricity, chemical components are used for this when compared with cryptocurrency mining. Therefore, I do not consider bitcoin mining to be something harmful to the world.

OP's thread is a stupid and pointless topic. There is no denying that bitcoin mining requires energy and the result of mining is also emitting waste that pollutes the environment. But if judged fairly, all industries use energy and are polluting the environment to a certain extent. What's more important is that they all serve the benefit of the user, and the user is us. Bitcoin too, it is bringing a lot of benefits to us from profits and other utilities. So, it would be quite one-sided and somewhat stupid to deliberately slander bitcoin mining and ignore other industries.

This is very funny, Fiat can buy miners and Bitcoin, and that makes central bank the winner? Why must they buy? They should try to print Bitcoin if truly they are worthy to be a winner, since they can print money as they want, buying Bitcoin makes them bow to Bitcoin.

It's like Bitcoin saying, You have to buy me or buy miners to get me, you can't print me, Since central banks are in control of paper money, that's the least of what they can control, they have no power over Bitcoin.

Being able to print money and buy doesn't make them the winner, remember, they aren't the only ones buying, They have to join the queue of millions of buyers around the world, there are no levels to prove here.

With Bitcoin, you give something to get some Bitcoin, with Fiat they give nothing but use paper and ink to print money. The difference is night and day.

They can never buy all the coins, or even all the Miner. The most hodlers will not sell all their coins, i think. The price would be too high to sell all of them and a big part of coins is lost, so they will never buy them. And all the Miners around the world, oh no, that is impossible too. All over the world there are different ways to buy a miner or run it online. Many of them will not sell everything if the price is very good, they will always keep a small part and protect it.

This is something I wholeheartedly agree, we may not have any solution to it that is better than bitcoin right now and that is why it matters so much.

The only fair thing I could say about bitcoin is that it does spend a lot of energy right now and we could definitely find a better suited program that would be better, staking that ETH uses so far seems to be working and turning bitcoin into that may take many many years but at least we have a way to do that and I think it should be important to keep repeating that whenever we can, it should be a big deal. Obviously it will take some time but we could make that work and that's important. Of course it is not that big of a deal if you are not careful about it as well.

We cannot compare bitcoin PoW with PoS, bitcoin is far better than them in many ways because with bitcoin, you have to show and work it out unlike the other crytpo mining the stakeholders make decisions, we can also compare bitcoin mining site with other mining site used for natural resources like gold and petroleum, we could see the difference, bitcoin mining being environmentally friendly, less harm and also making effective use of the energies that could be rendered useless for it mining purpose, this is bitcoin and people were running after it's adoption because they have seen many potentials in its adoption when they accept it.

That's right, there is no denying that bitcoin is not 100% perfect and has its downsides too.  but it would be quite unfair to suggest that bitcoin mining is harmful to the environment while the mining industry for gold or other metals is not. I don't have mining power usage figures for gold and bitcoin to compare, so I can't say which would be less harmful to the environment.  but I know both are beneficial for us and even bitcoin offers more utility and use cases than gold.  so let's be fair, bitcoin isn't perfect but it's brought a lot of benefits to us.

Why do you think it's negative for Bitcoin? Only minority of bitcoiners mine. In 2012, when I first heard about "the money of the future", I knew that I could mine some coins myself. But mining seemed to me very complicated, and required investments. So I preferred to buy some coins, not to mine them. I still consider that decision as a good one. And it doesn't matter which rate of coins is already mined: 40% or 93%.

Why do you think it's negative for Bitcoin? If all the coins are already mined, it means that there is no inflation in Bitcoin anymore. A perfect asset for savings, isn't it?

As @Dunamisx said, if you compare the energy of gold mining with bitcoin mining then bitcoin mining is a lot more eco-friendly. It doesn't consume as much energy as the tabloids are spreading. The important thing is that bitcoin has as many uses as gold or any other asset, so it cannot be said that bitcoin mining is a waste. Moreover, as long as all miners switch to using clean energy to mine bitcoin, everything will be fine. We don't need to make any further changes to bitcoin. I mean, I don't expect any developments to make bitcoin as useless as ETH.

Op is in a lot of confusion right now and seems to have hard total misconceptions about Bitcoin, its impact and who controls the network, from the numerous wrong assumption mentioned in the op, it clear that op have a lot to unlearn to be able to understand the context and content of bitcoin properly, but let me take time to dive on the notion that 50% miners controls the network

It seems, OP have a wrong notion and lacks a clear understanding of the difference between the Bitcoin proof of work network, and the Ethereum proof of stake network, Network manipulation by the higher liquidity provider is the proof of stake network is possible but in the POW network no single miner or group of miner can control the network so the 50% control ops mentioned is not possible in the Bitcoin network.

Not so stupid and pointless, since everyone sooner or later thinks about it. If you look at the mining of cryptocurrencies from the outside, then from the outside it really looks like money, electricity, premises and efforts are being spent on some kind of business, the result of which cannot even be seen or held in your hands, in other words, something intangible, like things from computer games. Therefore, this question arises. But in fact, if you at least delve a little into and understand the meaning of blockchain and cryptocurrencies, it will be obvious that this is a useful thing, which is many times more necessary than many things that are costly for resources and labor.
After all, this thing can change the world, and it already does, unlike the same premises with equipment that consumes electricity and contains, for example, servers of stupid games, or boring sites that were not and will not be of any use.

Nothing is perfect in this universe and anything you choose will have some positive aspects and some negative aspects. If we are trying to find those things which does not have any drawbacks then we can never be successful because there is nothing exist without drawbacks.

Bitcoin possess both negative and positive characteristics so if we wants to get good outcomes then we should know how to be profitable with such negativity. Those who become Billionaire with bitcoin investment did not tiered in their efforts but they spent the difficult time by using useful strategies to achieve their desired destination.

Market condition can be changes but we have to utilize our brain to take better decisions and utilize our patience to reach to the perfect timing of buying and selling which will be in our favor.

When I saw the name of the thread I thought we might talk about the volatility, how easy the price can be moved by individuals or the sometimes long confirmation times.

I don't see other negatives to be honest.
Sure the mining aspect and the consequences for the planet are worth talking about, but what's not bad for the environment these days? Mony has to be printed, coins have to be minted, metal has to be digged out of our earth. It all has a certain impact.

I just hate the sometimes long confirmations times, also because I am very unlucky with those.
Sometimes I am getting a transaction and then, even though there have been like 10 confirmation in the last hour, now that I am waiting for one there is none for 1 hour plus. And this happens so often that I feel bitcoin is trolling me actually, haha.

That's the core thing! Absolutely right! Blockchain is vulnerable to centraliation, since it can turn out to be that all the "sleeping" or "lost" wallets belong to a cryptotycoon, then it will be no difference between fiat money system and crypto money system (thats what happened with dollar): the centralisation of all the capital power in the hands of several rich people. Moreover, while blockchain itself is decentralised, all the infrastructure (both soft and hardware) may become centralised at any moment.

How is this thread on the main page but had yet to have bee replied to since August? 

Regardless I think it's a good time to bring this back up.  My two big negatives regarding bitcoin right now are Ordinals and Runes.  I always use to tout bitcoin as the coin that was focused on other things rather than silly on chain jpegs where the blockchain is really not needed.  It's clogging the network, increasing fees, slowing down transactions etc. I feel like we are moving backwards here.

I understand this is good for the price of bitcoin as many people like this foolishness, but I want LEGIT utility, not nonsense.  Satoshi proposed escrow using cryptography and proposed as such in a thread here on the forum.  He even discussed in in his email chain with Sirius.  "I'll be working on that next".  He  never did ( I wish I knew why ) but I sure wish people would pick up the slack with that as that is GAME CHANGIGN technology !

If you mention 100% ,many people will know that you are not telling them the truth because it's only God that can give 100% solution, but I know that BTC has perfected 60% in the life of humanity that embraced BTC because it has reduced unemployment from many countries that adopted BTC and still remain decentralized.

The negative aspects, BTC is not centralized currency and you can not hodl it physical for other people to see or receive it from you like the way sellers receive fiat money from us physical without any fear of disobeying the law of the government.

The BTC negative aspect is not much compared to fiat money, you will store in your bank and they will give you date when to withdraw your fiat money you deposited for the bank to hodl for you, but you can't find such negative in BTC which is the reason why, I said BTC negative are few.

The op is not telling people the truth because I ma still skeptical where he copy and got such an idea from think Bitcoin does not worth. There many use case of Bitcoin that needs five searched if op really want to know. If you think Bitcoin does not worth the stress then why are many firms investing in Bitcoin and planning to hold for as long as possible. You don't need to decieve anybody here because there are lots of testimonies of people that have invested in Bitcoin and have made huge profits from it. Elon once criticize Bitcoin years ago but now, he is still buying and accumulating it because of the potentials.

Everything is designated to work on its own for good...
Haven't you been reading through your state local budgets list? How much do they spend on housing and properties and unnecessary developments? Why don't you go ahead to protest against their doings?  You really wanna talk about things being toxic? Focus on your political toxicity!!
It cost alot to fight and gain freedom - especially through referendum... Bitcoin was introduced to help blunt the sharp edges of privacy intruders.
Edit;
Including the central banks itself -  Dude has no idea what he's talking about!

A "Premine" is unfair mining before official release, I would never call Bitcoin a premine just because I wasn't there to mine it when I could.

As for energy waste, it solves a great financial problem so I wouldn't call it a waste but rather energy use.

It would be just an energy waste if it wasn't giving anything in return.

If Bitcoin would ever switch from PoW to PoS, then I would say all that energy used was a waste because from decentralized project we have switched to convulsed centralized project pretending to be decentralized one - like the premined Ethereum (who would thought it will switch to PoS, lol).

BTW, Vitalik reminds me of SBF - he uses the same tactic of creating an image of himself of altruistic man who does not care about money (cheap haircut, cheap wardrobe) but in reality he is a money hungry beast.

I actually disagree. I think many enjoy the decentralized nature of bitcoin as it protects our privacy and makes sure that we remain anonymous no matter our transactions are.

Also the fact that it is digital is more of a convenience nowadays rather than a disadvantage. These days a lot of transactions are made through online not to mention that it much safer to be holding your money digitally than physical where someone can easily rob it from you.
Well that would depend on your country's rules and regulations. Participating in bitcoin is not illegal in some nations and in fact even encouraged.

There is no clear evidence or statements about Elon Musk buying and accumulating Bitcoin. However, we don't need to explain anything to anyone. Someone who thinks Bitcoin is not worth investment is losing in this race, this isn't going to affect Bitcoin or the industry if they are not interested in it or think it is worthless or doesn't deserve investments, it's their loss in the end of the day and they will realize this in the future when they will see its price.

Those who did the same thing when Bitcoin was below $1,000 are badly regretting it today because if they weren't busy trying to show Bitcoin in a negative light and had accumulated some, they would have been millionaires today but it's unfortunate for them. So, those doing the same thing today will have the same faith.

Why not blame anything in Bitcoin?
People have been killed and tortured even for other assets as long as they have a value.
People could use other crypto if they want to but the question is why, even if there are so many who cries on the transaction fee, and other negative things people say about Bitcoin, why do you or they even use it or buy it?
If they don't want to they could just ignore it and people who supports it doesn't realy care much about it.

I quite agree with the fact that it is safe to store money digitally rather than physically, where it is easier for other people to steal it. Because sometimes it will be difficult for us to prove that it is our money when it is in other people's hands, so with the presence of blockchain technology. This will actually make it easier for everyone to store their own money without having to worry about being robbed as long as their wallet is really well maintained. Apart from that, when someone wants to buy something that is more expensive, it will also be easier to use digital money rather than carrying physical cash in their suitcase.

And actually, it's not about beating the market. It's now more about how do you make money in this highly manipulative market. Because accept it or not, there is a large entity or enterprise or a whale, that could influence the price of any coin in a matter of seconds. And as long are there are people who are willing to participate in the Cryptocurrency, Bitcoins value will keep moving higher or lower. As the normal people sell their assets, rich people and big companies are buying. That's the difference.

It too sad to read stuffs like that,honestly,people can never be satisfied with whatever life offers them,whether good or bad.But despite the opportunities and responsibilities,It's typically outrageous remarks that they'll mostly consider.

Its no doubt that bitcoin has its drawbacks and disadvantages attached to it,bitcoin is digital currencies that is offering individuals and businesses another choice to save,invest and use money.Unlike fiat money transactions prone to cyber-attacks and fraudulent activities, Bitcoins are encrypted and immune to seizure.

Its unacceptable for people to continue to operate in that kind of immature experience,understanding and insecurities.There's always a difference between them to comprehend.